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A question with an answer?

DJBombjackDJBombjack Miami 1,665 Posts
edited November 2008 in Strut Central
Something i've always wondered... when mixed race partners (for example black mother, white father) in this country have a child, the child is still referred to as 'black' or 'African American'.b, 21Yet, the child is 50% white and 50% black.b, 21Why is this?b, 21b, 21Does it stem from whites not recognizing the child as wholly white?b, 21b, 21I ask because Barack Obama is nearly always referred to as 'African American' yet has a white mother.

  Comments

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    It's just the Nature of the Threat.
  • ignastyignasty 163 Posts
    I believe this is referred to as the "one drop" rule, tho I'm not sure it can be called a rule.b, 21b, 21EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_drop_rule
  • cratedigginnatecratedigginnate 106 Posts
    I dont have an answer...but i've wondered that too...it must be the skin tone if barack had blonde hair and blue eyes no one would believe he was black and would most likely refer to as him as whiteboi
  • KineticKinetic 3,739 Posts
    It probably has to do with older notions of racial purity that relate to what ignasty said above re the "one drop rule." But I agree that when you think about it in normal terms, it really doesn't make sense.
  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21I believe this is referred to as the "one drop" rule, tho I'm not sure it can be called a rule.b, 21b, 21EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_drop_rule b, 21b, 21h, 21
    b, 21b, 21Man F*ck the one drop rule! That shit is the most racist BS ever. I'm the father of 2 bi-racial kids and I'll be damned if they're taught that they are more one race than the other.
  • DJBombjackDJBombjack Miami 1,665 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21bi-racialb, 21b, 21h, 21
    b, 21b, 21This term seems to make more sense.
  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    When Obama started his campaign many in the Black community said he wasn't Black enough. b, 21(Not because of his white mother but because he was not descendant from slaves and he wasn't raised in an urban, or rural Southern, community.)b, 21b, 21He says when he tries to hail a cab in Manhattan he is Black enough. b, 21b, 21The answer to your question is there are 2 ways people are racial identified in this country. b, 211) By appearence. b, 212) By self-identification. b, 21b, 21Better than the old system of one drop or the Nazi system of 1/4. b, 21b, 21Because of common practice of raping slaves most African Americans have white blood.
  • FrankFrank 2,372 Posts
    i think to answer this, you'd have to get deep into disgustingly racist purity of blood theories... don't think the answer is going to be worth the path you'd have to take to get there. Nor would it make much logical sense.b, 21b, 21There was a really interesting show on BBC a while back called "100% British". The candidates were basically all people who made a big deal of their 100% pure British heritage... one of them was the daughter of M. Thatcher. The other candidates were kinda right wing half-nuts but no real skinhead/national front types at least the one or two shows that someone had sent me on a DVD a while back.b, 21b, 21It was insane. The makers of the show were smart enough to have release forms signed way early and then they had some sophisticated DNA test performed on a blood sample. They could tell you with astonishing acuracy where your ancestors really came from and the results were very much surprising in pretty much every single case. Not few of ther candidates later hired lawyers in attempts to not have the footage aired, -all to no success.b, 21b, 21Should have the same concept here in the states "100% white" shit would be off the hook!
  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Many European Americans came here as indentured servants (slaves). Especially Germans and Irish. Yet you never meet a white person who refers to (or even knows about) their slave past. b, 21b, 21Just something interesting I heard recently.
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Many European Americans came here as indentured servants (slaves). Especially Germans and Irish. Yet you never meet a white person who refers to (or even knows about) their slave past. b, 21b, 21h, 21
    b, 21b, 21One main reason why is because beginning in the mid-1800s, European immigrants, regardless of how they came to the U.S., were being folded into the American idea of "White" (this after the Irish, in particular, were treated as distinctly different from WASPs earlier in the 1800s). There are numerous reasons for this, not the least of which was the usefulness of having Irish offered White "membership" in return for labor solidarity with the White working class against other labor, notably Asian immigrants and post-slavery African Americans. One of the privileges of Whiteness was the shedding of pasts; one could assimilate into the homogeneity of Whiteness in a way that, of course, Blacks, Asians and other racialized minorities never could - their "histories" were inscribed on their body in a way that couldn't be erased through assimilation since they were, by the very nature of their racial difference, unassimilable. b, 21b, 21Plus, because slavery in America came with such specific racialized connotations (indentured servitude might have resembled slavery but was not identical to how Africans experienced slavery), there was added incentive for anyone with roots in White servitude to deny or "forget" their past, lest they be associated with Black people.
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21He says when he tries to hail a cab in Manhattan he is Black enough. b, 21b, 21h, 21
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Something i've always wondered... when mixed race partners (for example black mother, white father) in this country have a child, the child is still referred to as 'black' or 'African American'.b, 21Yet, the child is 50% white and 50% black.b, 21Why is this?b, 21b, 21Does it stem from whites not recognizing the child as wholly white?b, 21b, 21I ask because Barack Obama is nearly always referred to as 'African American' yet has a white mother. b, 21b, 21h, 21
    b, 21b, 21You're asking for a logical answer to a phenomenon that is both inherently logical (you can see color!) and utterly illogical (there's no such thing as "race," biologically speaking). b, 21b, 21It's not just about the one-drop rule, though that has been a standard for most of America's history. It got so ridiculously that at one point in the early 1800s, the U.S. census actually had categories for quadroons and octaroons (1/4 and 1/8 Black, respectively). At some point, later that century, all acknowledgements of mixed race disappeared. You were either White or Black but nothing in between (mixed race heritage wasn't given room on the census until 2000, believe it or not) and that determination ultimately came down to appearance. b, 21b, 21Black is what Black looks like. If you look Black, you are Black. If you can pass for White, you are White. So it doesn't matter that Obama is half-White. There's not really a way to "look half-white/half-Black" that's meaningful in contemporary race relations though the shades of darkness can and will matter but again, it's hardly the case that we commonly refer to people of mixed race descent as mixed race, especially if one of those races is Black. Tiger Woods is less than 1/2 Black if I'm not mistaken...but he's described and "read" as Black. b, 21b, 21Again: that makes sense only insofar as racial appearance comes with 4 centuries of baggage that can't be easily escaped. Otherwise, there's no real logic to explain it otherwise.
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21He says when he tries to hail a cab in Manhattan he is Black enough. b, 21b, 21h, 21
    b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21For real - forget about the "one drop rule," let's talk about the "one cab rule."
  • LamontLamont 1,089 Posts
    for lack of better word, mulatto never made it big
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21for lack of better word, mulatto never made it big b, 21b, 21h, 21
    b, 21b, 21I wasn't alive in the 1800s so I can't really say but it hung in there for at least sixty years as far as the Census goes and that only existed from 1860 and forward so who knows how far back it went before that. b, 21b, 21From what I've read, mulatto was actually pretty meaningful in the 19th century, especially in Northern (i.e. non-slavery) states. You were accorded a slightly higher class level though still, obviously, not White. b, 21b, 21I think mulatto disappears around the time Whiteness itself becomes literally codified; it's worth noting that the last year mulatto appears as a category is 1920, the same decade that gave us the Ozawa and Thind Supreme Court cases which defined "Whiteness" as it related to the ability to naturalize. b, 21b, 21To put it another way, once society figured out who white people were, there was no point in figuring who half-white people were. Either you were white or you were not.
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21for lack of better word, mulatto never made it big b, 21b, 21h, 21
    b, 21b, 21I wasn't alive in the 1800s so I can't really say but it hung in there for at least sixty years as far as the Census goes and that only existed from 1860 and forward so who knows how far back it went before that. b, 21b, 21From what I've read, mulatto was actually pretty meaningful in the 19th century, especially in Northern (i.e. non-slavery) states. You were accorded a slightly higher class level though still, obviously, not White. b, 21b, 21I think mulatto disappears around the time Whiteness itself becomes literally codified; it's worth noting that the last year mulatto appears as a category is 1920, the same decade that gave us the Ozawa and Thind Supreme Court cases which defined "Whiteness" as it related to the ability to naturalize. b, 21b, 21To put it another way, once society figured out who white people were, there was no point in figuring who half-white people were. Either you were white or you were not. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21Mulatto has it roots in Animal breed mixing. Its derogatory in my book.b, 21b, 21Mule & ......
  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    It never fails to amaze me how the banners up top sometimes synchronize with the actual threads...b, 21b, 21I don't know if any of you guys caught this, but there's an ad for an online interracial dating service that - sometimes - shows up atop this actual thread. It was replaced by something else last I looked...
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Remember the Good Times episode when J.J. dreamt he was White?
  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Remember the Good Times episode when J.J. dreamt he was White? b, 21b, 21h, 21
    b, 21b, 21Yes, I do. J.J. as a white man: "Really, you must be JIVVING!"b, 21b, 21How 'bout the one where Michael (in college by now) is considering shacking up with a roommate who happens to be a white girl? And it's totally platonic, yet everybody's trying to front like they're lovers?
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Remember the Good Times episode when J.J. dreamt he was White? b, 21b, 21h, 21
    b, 21b, 21How 'bout the one where Michael (in college by now) is considering shacking up with a white woman? And it's totally platonic, yet everybody's trying to front like they're lovers? b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21Haha...no doubt. The girl's parents were tryin to get their Slang on w/ the Evans.b, 21b, 21Remember the White Social worker who had Penny's case? She'd start kickin Jive by the end of the episodes. She appeared a couple of times.
  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Remember the Good Times episode when J.J. dreamt he was White? b, 21b, 21h, 21
    b, 21b, 21How 'bout the one where Michael (in college by now) is considering shacking up with a white woman? And it's totally platonic, yet everybody's trying to front like they're lovers? b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21Haha...no doubt. The girl's parents were tryin to get their Slang on w/ the Evans.b, 21b, 21Remember the White Social worker who had Penny's case? She'd start kickin Jive by the end of the episodes. She appeared a couple of times. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21Yeah, that was a staple of black shows back then, getting the uptight white character to go Ebonic for comic effect.b, 21b, 21Remember when "Ms. Hathaway" from i1The Beverly Hillbillies[/i] later turned up as a regular on i1Sanford & Son[/i]? And Aunt Esther taught her to say "watch it, sucker?" (I can't reproduce it on a computer screen, but let's just say hearing i1those words[/i] from i1that lady[/i] is comedy gold all the way.)
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Remember the Good Times episode when J.J. dreamt he was White? b, 21b, 21h, 21
    b, 21b, 21How 'bout the one where Michael (in college by now) is considering shacking up with a white woman? And it's totally platonic, yet everybody's trying to front like they're lovers? b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21Haha...no doubt. The girl's parents were tryin to get their Slang on w/ the Evans.b, 21b, 21Remember the White Social worker who had Penny's case? She'd start kickin Jive by the end of the episodes. She appeared a couple of times. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21Yeah, that was a staple of black shows back then, getting the uptight white character to go Ebonic for comic effect.b, 21b, 21Remember when "Ms. Hathaway" from i1The Beverly Hillbillies[/i] later turned up as a regular on i1Sanford & Son[/i]? And Aunt Esther taught her to say "watch it, sucker?" (I can't reproduce it on a computer screen, but let's just say hearing i1those words[/i] from i1that lady[/i] is comedy gold all the way.) b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21My Sanford & Son game is low. But that sounds hilarious.
  • selperfugeselperfuge 1,165 Posts
    remember when edna garrett gave george jefferson a blow job on camera?
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21remember when edna garrett gave george jefferson a blow job on camera? b, 21b, 21h, 21
    b, 21b, 21Is that when she was on Facts of Life or Different Strokes?
  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21remember when edna garrett gave george jefferson a blow job on camera? b, 21b, 21h, 21
    b, 21b, 21Is that when she was on Facts of Life or Different Strokes? b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21Mr. Drummond: "Son, Ms. Garrett just sucked off Mr. Jefferson, the dry cleaner!"b, 21Arnold: "WHATCHUTALKINBOUT, DAD?"b, 21(cue laugh track, freeze frame, display credits)b, 21b, 21
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