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$700 BILLION BAILOUT

mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
edited September 2008 in Strut Central
SAYINb,121b,121Epic times. b,121b,121Good idea or should we let 'em rot???b,121b,121
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  Comments

  • 99Problems99Problems 1,541 Posts
    b,121Yeah, I got a bad feeling about this one...Just another example of how we are making future generations pay for the mistakes of the current generation.
  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    LET EM ROT.b,121b,121This bail out gives the Treasury secretary unchecked and absolute power to do what ever he (or she) wants with $700 bil.b,121b,121McCain has wisely rejected it. b,121b,121Obama needs to also. b,121b,121Let's put $700 bil into bridges, railroads, a new sustaniable electric grid and port security. Real Jobs for Real Americans for Real Prosperity!b,121b,121Let the wall street exuctives rot.b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121My apoligizes to retires living off of bonds and securities. You might want to move in with the kids and get a job as a greeter at Mal Wart.
  • mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
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    Quote:/font1h,121b,121b,121My apoligizes to retires living off of bonds and securities. You might want to move in with the kids and get a job as a greeter at Mal Wart. b,121b,121h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dominoes22.gif" alt="" 21
  • ReynaldoReynaldo 6,054 Posts
    LESS WHINE MORE GRIND.
  • DjArcadianDjArcadian 3,633 Posts
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    Quote:/font1h,121b,121SAYINb,121b,121Epic times. b,121b,121Good idea or should we let 'em rot???b,121b,121 b,121b,121h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121If we let them rot the economy would collapse.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    I like the idea of wrapping up some consumer debt in this bailout! I have some bills I can send them.
  • unlasciviousunlascivious 220 Posts
    one would be foolish to think the bailout is to help wall street executives.b,121the banking system is in tatters right now. that totally rad alternative energy technology you heard about in the news will never secure the financing it needs when a) the debt market is frozen b) issuing equity at such depressed prices is bad for the business in the long run.
  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    debt amnesty for everyone!!!b,121b,121yay!!!b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happyday.gif" alt="" 21b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/595.gif" alt="" 21
  • DongerDonger 854 Posts
    We can't let them rot, because if we do, we'll all be worse off than they are.b,121b,121Forget recession, we may very well see a depression. In that case, we'll all be fucked.
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
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    h,121
    b,121debt amnesty for everyone!!!
    b,121
    b,121yay!!!
    b,121
    b,121
    img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happyday.gif" alt="" 21
    b,121
    b,121
    img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/595.gif" alt="" 21
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121Oh, if only...b,121b,121But then again, I don't carry any debt so really: img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/f-u.gif" alt="" 21 to all the debtors.b,121b,121NO BAILOUT. img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerbang.gif" alt="" 21b,121b,121Seriously though, I don't feel informed enough as to whether the bailout makes good economic sense but things like lack of transparency and accountability sound bad in any situation. And Paulson's not the most convincing guy when it comes to whether bailout money should get tied to limits on exec pay and parachutes. b,121b,121Explain to me how we're about to consider ponying up 2/3rds of a TRILLION dollars and no one's going to jail over that.
  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
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    h,121
    b,121
    b,121
    b,121Explain to me how we're about to consider ponying up 2/3rds of a TRILLION dollars and no one's going to jail over that.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121co motherfuckin sign. this is what i cant wrap my head around. white collar criminal bitches
  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    the whole thing sounds like a bad deal for the taxpayersb,121b,121Wall St is going to 'sell' it's worthless assets & bad debts to the govt?b,121b,121sounds like a great idea... to Wall St!!
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
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    h,121
    b,121the whole thing sounds like a bad deal for the taxpayers
    b,121
    b,121Wall St is going to 'sell' it's worthless assets & bad debts to the govt?
    b,121
    b,121sounds like a great idea... to Wall St!!
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121U AIN'T NEVA LIE!b,121b,121One of the biggest issues right now is at what price will those mortgage-backed securities be set at - there's legit concerns the Treasury might buy them at far higher prices than they deserve, out of fear that if they price them accurately, all the institutions that are holding them will find themselves having to report new losses and start the cycle of collapse all over again.
  • rootlesscosmorootlesscosmo 12,848 Posts
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    h,121
    b,121
    b,121Explain to me how we're about to consider ponying up 2/3rds of a TRILLION dollars and no one's going to jail over that.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121There's no evidence of any crimes having been committed (yet).
  • twoplytwoply Only Built 4 Manzanita Links 2,917 Posts
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    h,121
    b,121
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    h,121
    b,121
    b,121
    b,121Explain to me how we're about to consider ponying up 2/3rds of a TRILLION dollars and no one's going to jail over that.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1
    b,121
    b,121co motherfuckin sign. this is what i cant wrap my head around. white collar criminal bitches
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121Didn't these guys loan 30x more than they had because the government allowed/encouraged them to? Hence the bailout.
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
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    h,121
    b,121
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    h,121
    b,121
    b,121Explain to me how we're about to consider ponying up 2/3rds of a TRILLION dollars and no one's going to jail over that.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1
    b,121
    b,121
    b,121There's no evidence of any crimes having been committed (yet).
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121Yeah - I know. I'm just saying that it's ridiculous that you can steal a candy bar and get sent up but lose billions through incredibly suspect (though technically not illegal) lending practices and walk away RICH. b,121b,121I'm glad Congress actually seems to have grown a pair and are holding off on signing that blank check. Of course, that may all change tomorrow...
  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,905 Posts
    No cash ever for poverty. But somehow they find 700 Billion?b,121b,121That's peculiar...b,121b,121b,121 img src="http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8955/failkx4.jpg"1
  • JimBeamJimBeam Seattle. 2,012 Posts
    these bailouts, although for the purpose of providing stability in the big come-down that's been waiting to happen for a while, are essentially a waste in the long-run. for a market to effectively operate over a long period of time, failure needs to occur-- it allows only the necessary and most efficient entities to exist. the more the bailouts occur, the longer it will take for the market to reach equilibrium. this shit sucks.
  • kitchenknightkitchenknight 4,922 Posts
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    h,121
    b,121these bailouts, although for the purpose of providing stability in the big come-down that's been waiting to happen for a while, are essentially a waste in the long-run. for a market to effectively operate over a long period of time, failure needs to occur-- it allows only the necessary and most efficient entities to exist. the more the bailouts occur, the longer it will take for the market to reach equilibrium. this shit sucks.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121Yes. That town needs an enema... and, what it is getting is Immodium. b,121b,121Let the shit flow, fuckers!
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
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    h,121
    b,121No cash ever for poverty. But somehow they find 700 Billion?
    b,121
    b,121That's peculiar...
    b,121
    b,121
    b,121
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121[Conventional political wisdom]Solving poverty doesn't help the middle class or wealthy.[/CPW]b,121b,121b/wb,121b,121[Wingnuts]Give the poormoney and they'd blow it on drinking and drugs.[/wingnuts]
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Bail-out is one thing but to give it right back to the idiots who got us in this mess in the first place is insane.b,121b,121Let's give $700 billion to someone to start new banks and be held accountable from here on out.
  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts
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    h,121
    b,121SAYIN
    b,121
    b,121Epic times.
    b,121
    b,121Good idea or should we let 'em rot???
    b,121
    b,121
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121No bailout without guarantees of ZERO golden parachutes.
  • kitchenknightkitchenknight 4,922 Posts
    I don't want the system to collapse.b,121b,121I DO want regulation, and I want limits on pay structures.
  • SaracenusSaracenus 671 Posts
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    h,121
    b,121Bail-out is one thing but to give it right back to the idiots who got us in this mess in the first place is insane.
    b,121
    b,121Let's give $700 billion to someone to start new banks and be held accountable from here on out.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121Rock,b,121b,121Only the problem isn't the players, it's the rules that they play under (or the lack there of...). Sure we can let the current crop of financial institutions crash and burn but they don't stand alone. While we are letting the forest burn you are not taking into account all the fuel that has been allowed to accumulate on the forest floor. It will be so much bigger, wider and painful than you think.b,121b,121The problem isn't the 700 Billion. The problem is the lack of accountability demanded by Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke (who really are just stalking horses for the Bush Administration). b,121b,121I am going to bet that the push back from elements of the Republican and Democratic parties for various ideological and political reasons will prevent a quick passage of the original request. A smaller stop gap will be voted upon or it will be tabled until after Nov. 4th. If anything is voted upon upon before then, it will require both Obama and McCain to vote yes before the rest of them are going to put their political lives on the line.b,121b,121What you are witnessing is the deathnell of a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Friedman" target="_blank"1Milton Friedman/a1 style economics that has been the cornerstone of the Free Marketeers that have been running the show since Ronald Regan came to power.b,121b,121While we probably will not swing back to 100% a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian" target="_blank"1Keynesian/a1 economic model and the battle will be over the mix of public and private influence over the economy. That is where shit is going to get deep. You are going to see the rails come off the Republican party on this one.b,121b,121My Two Cents against Seven Hundred Billion...
  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    privatizing profits and socializing the costs
  • edith headedith head 5,106 Posts
    oh, i thought the market will always sort itself out. that's not true?b,121b,121remind me to stop checking my 401k balance.
  • Hotsauce84Hotsauce84 8,450 Posts
    All I know is my stock options have never looked better. I mean...they're volatile and all, but much better than they were 7-8 months ago. Plus my employer has been getting props left and right for our conservative lending practices.
  • jleejlee 1,539 Posts
    I am still trying to wrap my head around the whole thing right now. My current train of thought is this:b,121b,1211. US should commit to helping the system and providing liquidity if/as needed (confidence is what the market is severely lacking, a firm commitment should be stated)b,1212. Agree that this will require phased roll-outs to help stabalize markets. No "one blank check" should or will be writtenb,1213. Help ensure tight regulations. As noted before, there were rules, its just that they didn't seem to match the financial instruments being used. A classic example of (financial) innovation ahead of government regulation.b,121b,121i have to mull around a lot more on this though, and in the interim i pray the whole world doesn't collapse (admittedly exaggerated, but still a possibility)b,121b,121b,121But check the "kind of" collective voice of many economists. They are no fanb,121b,121a href="http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.cochrane/research/Papers/mortgage_protest.htm" target="_blank"1http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.cochrane/research/Papers/mortgage_protest.htm/a1b,121b,121no surprise, a lot of Chicago dudes on this listb,121b,121/font1
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    h,121
    b,121
    b,121To the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate:
    b,121
    b,121
    As economists, we want to express to Congress our great concern for the plan proposed by Treasury Secretary Paulson to deal with the financial crisis[/b]. We are well aware of the difficulty of the current financial situation and we agree with the need for bold action to ensure that the financial system continues to function. We see three fatal pitfalls in the currently proposed plan:b,121 b,1211) Its fairness. The plan is a subsidy to investors at taxpayers??? expense. Investors who took risks to earn profits must also bear the losses. Not every business failure carries systemic risk. The government can ensure a well-functioning financial industry, able to make new loans to creditworthy borrowers, without bailing out particular investors and institutions whose choices proved unwise.b,121 b,1212) Its ambiguity. Neither the mission of the new agency nor its oversight are clear. If taxpayers are to buy illiquid and opaque assets from troubled sellers, the terms, occasions, and methods of such purchases must be crystal clear ahead of time and carefully monitored afterwards.b,121 b,1213) Its long-term effects. If the plan is enacted, its effects will be with us for a generation. For all their recent troubles, Americas dynamic and innovative private capital markets have brought the nation unparalleled prosperity. Fundamentally weakening those markets in order to calm short-run disruptions is desperately short-sighted.b,121 b,121For these reasons we ask Congress not to rush, to hold appropriate hearings, and to carefully consider the right course of action, and to wisely determine the future of the financial industry and the U.S. economy for years to come[/b]. b,121 b,121b,121b,121Signedb,121b,121b,121b,121Acemoglu Daron (Massachussets Institute of Technology)b,121Adler Michael (Columbia University)b,121Admati Anat R. (Stanford University)b,121Alvarez Fernando (University of Chicago)b,121Andersen Torben (Northwestern University)b,121Beim David (Columbia University)b,121Berk Jonathan (Stanford University)b,121Bisin Alberto (New York University)b,121Boldrin Michele (Washington University)b,121Buera Francisco J.(UCLA)b,121Cassar Gavin (University of Pennsylvania)b,121Chaney Thomas (University of Chicago)b,121Chauvin Keith W. (University of Kansas)b,121Chintagunta Pradeep K. (University of Chicago)b,121Christiano Lawrence J. (Northwestern University)b,121Cochrane John (University of Chicago)b,121Coleman John (Duke University)b,121Constantinides George M. (University of Chicago)b,121Crain Robert (UC Berkeley)b,121De Marzo Peter (Stanford University)b,121Dub?? Jean-Pierre H. (University of Chicago)b,121Edlin Aaron (UC Berkeley)b,121Ely Jeffrey (Northwestern University)b,121Faulhaber Gerald (University of Pennsylvania)b,121Fox Jeremy T. (University of Chicago)b,121Fuchs William (University of Chicago)b,121Gao Paul (Notre Dame University)b,121Garicano Luis (University of Chicago)b,121Gerakos Joseph J. (University of Chicago)b,121Gibbs Michael (University of Chicago)b,121Goettler Ron (University of Chicago)b,121Goldin Claudia (Harvard University)b,121Guadalupe Maria (Columbia University)b,121Hansen Lars (University of Chicago)b,121Harris Milton (University of Chicago)b,121Hart Oliver (Harvard University)b,121Hazlett Thomas W. (George Mason University)b,121Heaton John (University of Chicago)b,121Heckman James (University of Chicago - Nobel Laureate)b,121Henisz, Witold (University of Pennsylvania)b,121Hertzberg Andrew (Columbia University)b,121Hite Gailen (Columbia University)b,121Hitsch G??nter J. (University of Chicago)b,121Hodrick Robert J. (Columbia University)b,121Hopenhayn Hugo (UCLA)b,121Hurst Erik (University of Chicago)b,121Israel Ronen (London Business School)b,121Jaffee Dwight M. (UC Berkeley)b,121Jagannathan Ravi (Northwestern University)b,121Jenter Dirk (Stanford University)b,121Jones Charles M. (Columbia Business School)b,121Kaboski Joseph P. (Ohio State University)b,121Kaplan Ethan (Stockholm University)b,121Karolyi, Andrew (Ohio State University)b,121Kashyap Anil (University of Chicago)b,121Ketkar Suhas L (Vanderbilt University)b,121Kiesling Lynne (Northwestern University)b,121Koch Paul (University of Kansas)b,121Kocherlakota Narayana (University of Minnesota)b,121Koijen Ralph S.J. (University of Chicago)b,121Kondo Jiro (Northwestern University)b,121Korteweg Arthur (Stanford University)b,121Kortum Samuel (University of Chicago)b,121Krueger Dirk (University of Pennsylvania)b,121Lee Lung-fei (Ohio State University)b,121Leuz Christian (University of Chicago)b,121Levine David I.(UC Berkeley)b,121Levine David K.(Washington University)b,121Linnainmaa Juhani (University of Chicago)b,121Manski Charles F. (Northwestern University)b,121Martin Ian (Stanford University)b,121Mayer Christopher (Columbia University)b,121McDonald Robert (Northwestern University)b,121Meadow Scott F. (University of Chicago)b,121Mian Atif (University of Chicago)b,121Middlebrook Art (University of Chicago)b,121Miguel Edward (UC Berkeley)b,121Miravete Eugenio J. (University of Texas at Austin)b,121Miron Jeffrey (Harvard University)b,121Moro Andrea (Vanderbilt University)b,121Morse Adair (University of Chicago)b,121Mortimer Julie Holland (Harvard University)b,121Nevo Aviv (Northwestern University)b,121Ohanian Lee (UCLA)b,121Pagliari Joseph (University of Chicago)b,121Papanikolaou Dimitris (Northwestern University)b,121Peltzman Sam (University of Chicago)b,121Perri Fabrizio (University of Minnesota)b,121Phelan Christopher (University of Minnesota)b,121Piazzesi Monika (Stanford University)b,121Piskorski Tomasz (Columbia University)b,121Reagan Patricia (Ohio State University)b,121Reich Michael (UC Berkeley)b,121Reuben Ernesto (Northwestern University)b,121Roberts Michael (University of Pennsylvania)b,121Rogers Michele (Northwestern University)b,121Ruud Paul (Vassar College)b,121Safford Sean (University of Chicago)b,121Sandbu Martin E. (University of Pennsylvania)b,121Sapienza Paola (Northwestern University)b,121Scharfstein David (Harvard University)b,121Shang-Jin Wei (Columbia University)b,121Shimer Robert (University of Chicago)b,121Siegel Ron (Northwestern University)b,121Sorensen Morten (Columbia University)b,121Spiegel Matthew (Yale University)b,121Stevenson Betsey (University of Pennsylvania)b,121Stokey Nancy (University of Chicago)b,121Strahan Philip (Boston College)b,121Strebulaev Ilya (Stanford University)b,121Sufi Amir (University of Chicago)b,121Thompson Tim (Northwestern University)b,121Tschoegl Adrian E. (University of Pennsylvania)b,121Uhlig Harald (University of Chicago)b,121Ulrich, Maxim (Columbia University)b,121Van Buskirk Andrew (University of Chicago)b,121Veronesi Pietro (University of Chicago)b,121Vissing-Jorgensen Annette (Northwestern University)b,121Weill Pierre-Olivier (UCLA)b,121Witte Mark (Northwestern University)b,121Wolfers Justin (University of Pennsylvania)b,121Zingales Luigi (University of Chicago)b,121b,121h,121
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  • SaracenusSaracenus 671 Posts
    edith head wrote[/b]:b,121/font1font class="small"1Quote:/font1h,121b,121oh, i thought the market will always sort itself out. that's not true?b,121b,121remind me to stop checking my 401k balance. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Don't you mean 201K...b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/WHYMUSTICRY.gif" alt="" 21b,121b,121I don't even want to look at my IRA and Roth IRA right now... The long term picture means that they will bounce back but god help the poor schmucks that need to draw from them now...b,121b,121jlee wrote[/b]:b,121/font1font class="small"1Quote:/font1h,121b,1213. Help ensure tight regulations. As noted before, there were rules, its just that they didn't seem to match the financial instruments being used. A classic example of (financial) innovation ahead of government regulation.b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121No, McCain economic adviser Sen. Phil Gramm (and his Republican allies) helped gut regulations that led to this mess 6 years ago with the a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act" target="_blank"1Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act/a1.b,121b,121This never was a case of financial instruments out pacing regulation, it was regulation being stripped away so that the "free market" could do its job. b,121b,121"Heck of a job Philly!"b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dominoes22.gif" alt="" 21
  • jleejlee 1,539 Posts
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    Quote:/font1h,121b,121 but god help the poor schmucks that need to draw from them now... b,121b,121h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121I hardly expect this to be limited to "schmucks". with the number of foreclosures, higher rate of umemployment (seriously, August was bad for the US) and the rise of commodity prices in food and oil, i fully expect that very sane normal people may have to draw down on retirement funds to pay for current expenditures.b,121b,121i'll be curious to see when people start trying to pull out life insurance before they die. sounds absurd, but if this shit fails, i suspect it too will happen.b,121b,121folks gotta feed their kids.
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