Quote:h,121b,121So when is Fox going to start demoting its biased anchors? b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121the difference there is that Fox is biased and proud. that's their right (subject to some limitations). MSNBC is free to be biased also, the difference apparently being that they don't want to be. the backstory to this Olberman story is apparently that certain MSNBC higher-ups are uncomfortable with the fact that theirs has come to be regarded as a liberal-leaning station. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121But not with the ratings!b,121b,121For real though, this is an interesting card MSNBC is playing: if they didn't want this appearance of bias, why did they put KO in the anchor seat to begin with? It's not like he turned a corner on his attitudes when this whole thing began? b,121b,121(The answer: the ratings). MSNBC just looks incompetent at this point. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121right. he rated favorably as the host of his own partisan show.b,121b,121but they overplayed their hand when they had him covering a more straightforward "event" like the convention.b,121b,121(Olberman on the RNC was like Barkley covering the Ws in the NBA playoffs.)
Quote:h,121b,121The prevailing narrative right now is that Obama is in the media's pocket, the big bad media that victimized wittew owd Sawah Palin.b,121b,121Olbermann, bane of the right wing, the left's answer to O'Reilly, just got demoted for his over-the-top partisan reporting and Obama's interview takes on the appearance of a reward.b,121b,121Seriously I don't know what planet you guys are on but the Dems are sinking, FAST, and I am really looking for Obama to roll out some thunder here. NOT seeing it so far. Going on Olbermann, unless he says some wild out shit, is just going to further the narrative (one which is quickly solidifying) that Obama is a media creation and the media=BAD while McCain/Palin=red meat, red blooded AMURRICANS. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121I don't know about the "Dems are sinking fast" - I think we tend to assume the worst because, well, it's the Dems. b,121b,121I do agree that they need to accelerate shit though, go on a careful offensive which should be entirely within in their grasps.
Quote:h,121b,121Seriously I don't know what planet you guys are on but the Dems are sinking, FASTb,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121So the sky is falling now? Hold your head, Birthday Boy. All is far from lost. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121b,121Call me Chicken Little, but the latest polls showing McCain leading by a signif margin got me tremblin'. b,121b,121Still, the optimist in me wants to believe that suburban, white homemaking Palinistas are the ones, right now, most likely to pick up that land line when the pollsters call. b,121b,121I'd like to believe that those polls don't represent the untold number of young folks out there who depend solely on their cell phones and the working, middle class folks who are a lot less likely to either be home when pollsters call or to answer a call from an unknown number.b,121b,121Am I wrong to assume that polling practices haven't yet caught up to new technology and that this fact may skew results?b,121b,121Any polling experts out there who can speak on this b/w plaese make me feel better.
A number of these polls hit up cell phones, but how many people do YOU know that would pick up that private number? Not many thinks I.b,121b,121Still I caution against a voter registration/cellphone/youth vote surprise in November. Obama's gotta win this thing on the backs of the regular folks.
weird they made such a big deal out of this ... channels are always changing the formula. i was surprised to see Olberman as an anchor though, and you can see his blowhard phrasings in the youtube clip.b,121b,121i'm also surprised FOX wins the ratings. biased personalities aside, their news presentation is completely boring to me.b,121b,121i wish Koppel would take over Meet the Press or become a CNN analyst, the guy is a genius and i rarely get to hear him anymore.
b,121b,121That's what I am hoping Obama and Co. are focused on, the actual ground game. Far be it from the media to cover the election in the only area that matters in the end -- the mother of all Ivy League Universities, the elitist, yet unaccredited, Electoral College.
Man this election has people HEATED! I woke up this morning and noticed that my neighbor's McCain sign has been fusked up. I didn't do it but I did laugh. Then when I get home the neighbor yells at my roommate saying that if we messed with his sign then we're in big trouble cuz he's on the phone with the cops. My roommate told him to fusk off and he scampered back inside. Hilarious!
Quote:h,121b,121I AM A STUDENT OF THE KINGMOSTIAN SCHOOL OF POLITICAL PANIC MODE. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121In that case, WE'RE FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKEEEEEEDDDDDD.b,121b,121img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" 21 b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121b,121you hoes.b,121b,121You know they are airing the other parts of the Obama vs. O'Reilly interviews tonight through wednesday? Where does that put Johnny's theory of "olberman=nalgas".
Obama has the largest ground campaign, in every state, ever assembled. His entire strategy is getting the vote out. That means young voters.b,121b,121The only way he wins is if we volunteer at our local Obama HQ. b,121b,121Now some people may be thinking, I'm in Brooklyn, and Brkln is on lock, so no need for me to vol. Or I'm in Houston, he can't win HTX, so no need for me to vol. b,121b,121NO.b,121b,1211) Over all majority, that means the max number of votes in NY and TX, will count.b,1212) Your local hq (if you are in a safe state) will also be working calling voters in OH or VA.b,1213) With our help there could be an Obama landslide. b,121b,121As for this stupid cable news story; doesn't this free Olbermann up to be even more partisan?
there was some crazy on air/open mikeb,121big ego infighting on the msnbc over the conventionb,121b,121daily show made lite of it one nightb,121b,121me thinks that may have a thing or 2 to do with this mathews/obermanb,121b,121(russsert vacancy, joe s. vindicated related)b,121b,121here comes rachel ........
This actually sounds like a good thing. Olbermann and Mathews weren't FIRED, they're just not going to be anchoring the broadcast. As an anchor, there has to be some attempt at playing an even hand, keeping a cool temper, and presenting things in a "official" sort of way. Mathews is just flat out incapable of doing that. KO can play the part, but you could tell holding his thoughts back in an attepmt to be down-the-middle was killing him. b,121b,121So what? they just got some boring dude (David Gregory) to fill that role. CM and KO are the two big stars of the network so they'll still be on all the time. Now they just have a much longer leash to work with, as far as what ideas they'll be able to present.
Neta:b,121b,121Hold ya head! It's not THAT bad. b,121b,121First of all: polls are useful to get a sense of where things are at in the absence of actual data (i.e. people aren't actually voting). So while I think have their worth, don't over presume anything about them. Depending on which ways news coverage shifts, you can see Obama bouncing back OR McCain stretching out this lead. At this point, no credible argument can be made that today's polling data is some how going to be static for the next 60 days. b,121b,121What it MAY suggest - and this is important - is where the fight needs to go. So, for example, McCain has stretched his lead in Ohio but it's shrinking in Florida. Maybe that means Obama lets Ohio go but goes all out in Florida. It's hard to say - polls only give us a snapshot and they can't reveal deeper motives. b,121b,121Bottomline: the RNC had a big advantage this year because they came after the DNC. It is entirely reasonable to think that if the RNC had gone first, McCain would NOT have chosen Palin. But as it was, they got to drop big news on Friday, diminishing Obama's convention bounce and then the RNC got their week o' visibility and what we've seen in the polls since then is a reaction to that. b,121b,121It goes both ways. If a debate were held tomorrow and Obama totally sonned McCain but still came off like a nice guy...you could expect the polls to show him gaining momentum and cutting into McCain's lead. But a week into more news cycles...it could easily swing back. That's the nature of polls - they're instant and reactive but they're not very predictive in and of themselves. If they were, it'd be Clinton vs. Giuliani right now, feel me? b,121b,121What the Dems need to do from here to Nov (among other things) is really find a way to connect with and grab working class white votes. Absolutely essential. And that is absolutely DO-ABLE especially given all the bad economic news that's coming out. The problem though is that this race is turning - as it probably was going to - into a war of personalities rather than issues so it's not enough that Obama has to communicate why his economic plans are superior, he also has to sell himself to those voters as the much-aligned "guy you can have a beer with." You might think that's some bullshit - and it is - but whatever: thems the breaks. Clinton didn't just win in 92 b/c the economy was in the tank - though that certainly helped. Clinton also radiated incredible charisma across the board; though he was smarter than most other people in the room, he didn't make you feel like he was. I think Obama has that potential and having Biden around won't hurt. b,121b,121Let's not forget that Obama has cash for days in ways that McCain doesn't and if they are smart with how they spend it, Obama can get his message out assuming it's the right messages. b,121b,121So don't lose faith and don't take the polls too seriously. b,121b,121And remember this: no matter what happens, Bush/Cheney are gone. That alone gives me reason to smile (and honestly, I don't think McCain/Palin would be worse UNLESS McCain dies.).
The new state data is pretty decent for Obama, considering.b,121b,121I have been GLUED to a href="http://www.fivethirtyeight.com" target="_blank"1www.fivethirtyeight.com for the last several days...b,121b,121
Quote:/font1h,121b,121A number of these polls hit up cell phones, but how many people do YOU know that would pick up that private number? Not many thinks I.b,121b,121Still I caution against a voter registration/cellphone/youth vote surprise in November. Obama's gotta win this thing on the backs of the regular folks. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121For real. The kids will LOSE this for Obama, if he goes down. F*ucking potheads will be voting green all day long, and they won't be anywhere near a polling station.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121Olberman is a douche of the highest degree. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121I fully agree. At least O'Reilly knows how to sell "indignation." He's on even when the cameras aren't rolling. Olbermann and Matthews shouldn't be anywhere near the DNC or RNC.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121Neta:b,121b,121Hold ya head! It's not THAT bad. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Correct. Provided that Obama doesn't make a major gaffe, this - or tomorrow's polling - will be near a high-water mark for the McCain campaign until the September 26th debate. That Obama is still in the electoral lead in ALL national polls when the first post-RNC numbers hit is a GREAT sign for the man. That McCain's numbers are up but isn't turning the College means that he's further solidified his base in states that were solidly red and leaning red. The states that "crossed over" into the tepid red from a tepid blue are all still in play - McCain DID NOT, outright, steal any states with this temporal run of numbers. Other than Alaska, that is.b,121b,121/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121Maybe that means Obama lets Ohio go but goes all out in Florida.b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Although this is an abstract example, Obama should prefer to grab Ohio to Florida. As an aside, I read today that there are tens of thousands of new Democrats (over Republicans) that are registered to vote in FL. That plus Ohio is a big-time state. If Obama takes Ohio and Virginia along with Mighigan and Pennsylvania (both in which he's still leading), then this shit is mathematically OVER.b,121b,121/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121Bottom line: the RNC had a big advantage this year because they came after the DNC. It is entirely reasonable to think that if the RNC had gone first, McCain would NOT have chosen Palin. But as it was, they got to drop big news on Friday, diminishing Obama's convention bounce and then the RNC got their week o' visibility and what we've seen in the polls since then is a reaction to that. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Right again. McCain dropped the Palin bombshell less than 12 hours after Obama's speech. It is reasonable to expect that the Dems might have had 2 or 3 more polling-points coming if the conventions had been (as is historically the case) more spaced-out. But the empty-heads lost their Obama train of thought and the "Obama=empty-shirt" meme reset. Say: did Hillary! give a speech a week or two ago? And who's this Joe Biden fellow? For sure, it would have been Romney or Pawlenty if Hillary! would have been chosen instead of Joe Sinatra.b,121b,121Either way, though, the RNC had a +9 or +10 in the polls, and the DNC only had a +5, tops. I am dismayed by these numbers, but feel slightly better about this in the long run.b,121b,121/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121It goes both ways. If a debate were held tomorrow and Obama totally sonned McCain but still came off like a nice guy...you could expect the polls to show him gaining momentum and cutting into McCain's lead. But a week into more news cycles...it could easily swing back. That's the nature of polls - they're instant and reactive but they're not very predictive in and of themselves. If they were, it'd be Clinton vs. Giuliani right now, feel me? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121You're right about polling in general, but not so much about the debates. The debates will be the first time since the Saddleback meeting that the two men have had a substantive platform to face-off. A poor debate showing ALONE has cost would-be Presidents the Oval Office. If Obama comes off like he did with Stephanopoulos, then he's digging a grave he might not crawl out of. McCain is a better debater, and will be going for the hollow sound-bites. Let's hope that Jim Lehrer keeps the men honest and substantive - the topic is on domestic issues first, which should be a major strong-point for Obama, if he plays his cards right. The ironic thing to note is that Obama is actually FAR more pithy than McCain on the issues. Requisite political fluff aside, Obama really comes off better in comparable transcripts. Unfortunately, I began the campaign thinking that Obama would play the composed, young Kennedy role, but after Saddleback, he's really skewing sweaty and Nixonian right now.b,121b,121/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121What the Dems need to do from here to Nov (among other things) is really find a way to connect with and grab working class white votes. Absolutely essential. And that is absolutely DO-ABLE especially given all the bad economic news that's coming out. The problem though is that this race is turning - as it probably was going to - into a war of personalities rather than issues so it's not enough that Obama has to communicate why his economic plans are superior, he also has to sell himself to those voters as the much-aligned "guy you can have a beer with." You might think that's some bullshit - and it is - but whatever: them's the breaks. Clinton didn't just win in 92 b/c the economy was in the tank - though that certainly helped. Clinton also radiated incredible charisma across the board; though he was smarter than most other people in the room, he didn't make you feel like he was. I think Obama has that potential and having Biden around won't hurt. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Obama is going to have trouble doing this. When Americans are deluded into thinking that Sarah Palin (check the polls) is MORE qualified than Barack Obama to be the President of the United States - even right after the RNC - then this country is in DIRE trouble. Even worse: It took the media MONTHS to start going after Obama. Palin has less than 60 days for her honeymoon to end. That's not nearly enough time for the press to turn on her like they did on Obama.b,121b,121/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121Let's not forget that Obama has cash for days in ways that McCain doesn't and if they are smart with how they spend it, Obama can get his message out assuming it's the right messages. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121This is key, but I'll do you one better: Obama needs his Colin Powell moment in two weeks if he's still 3-5 points behind. all the money in the world (and he hasn't used it exceptionally well as of yet) won't buy him crossover buzz like that. But dude needs an AD as well. I'd prefer a straight-on shot of Obama real-talking to the camera for one minute straight. b,121b,121/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121So don't lose faith and don't take the polls too seriously. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121I'm trying. I'm trying.b,121b,121/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121And remember this: no matter what happens, Bush/Cheney are gone. That alone gives me reason to smile (and honestly, I don't think McCain/Palin would be worse UNLESS McCain dies.). b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121This is true. I will believe this up until McCain announces his cabinet.
i just had a poltical nightmare dream, then i woke and realized it's true...bush III is in effect. seriously this shit is starting to infiltrate my dream life...
Luck:b,121b,121The press hasn't already turned against Palin? Did I miss something with all the coverage the last 10 days? She hasn't gotten a free pass on anything!b,121b,121As for the question of who is/who isn't qualified for president - if you asked 100 people what they think should be presidential qualifications, I think you'd get 100 different responses. There's no uniform guideline (except maybe being white and male) - it changes from election to election, it depends on who is running against who, etc. etc. b,121b,121I mean, seriously, why should Obama be qualified for president? I'm not dissing dude but on paper, I'm not really seeing it as anything obvious. I'm voting for him because 1) no fusking way do I want to see the GOP in power another 4 years and 2) I don't think he'll be a bad president, so why the hell not? I like the back story. I like the idea of making history. But I don't think any of those things have to do with "qualifications". b,121b,121That said, Palin is far, far, far less qualified than even that so I'm not suggesting she passes some minimum test - she doesn't. But I am saying that there's no inherent logic to what a qualification is and after this year, whatever subjective rationale there might have been is likely withering away. b,121b,121I asked this as a hypothetical before but if Ahnauld could have legally run for president, is there anyone who doesn't believe he would have won? I'm not even saying this cynically.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121Luck:b,121b,121The press hasn't already turned against Palin? Did I miss something with all the coverage the last 10 days? She hasn't gotten a free pass on anything!b,121b,121As for the question of who is/who isn't qualified for president - if you asked 100 people what they think should be presidential qualifications, I think you'd get 100 different responses. There's no uniform guideline (except maybe being white and male) - it changes from election to election, it depends on who is running against who, etc. etc. b,121b,121I mean, seriously, why should Obama be qualified for president? I'm not dissing dude but on paper, I'm not really seeing it as anything obvious. I'm voting for him because 1) no fusking way do I want to see the GOP in power another 4 years and 2) I don't think he'll be a bad president, so why the hell not? I like the back story. I like the idea of making history. But I don't think any of those things have to do with "qualifications". b,121b,121That said, Palin is far, far, far less qualified than even that so I'm not suggesting she passes some minimum test - she doesn't. But I am saying that there's no inherent logic to what a qualification is and after this year, whatever subjective rationale there might have been is likely withering away. b,121b,121I asked this as a hypothetical before but if Ahnauld could have legally run for president, is there anyone who doesn't believe he would have won? I'm not even saying this cynically. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121i'm with you on that, o. in effects,mccain didnt really neutralize his "lack of experience" critique of Obama, as much as he forced a comparison between Obama and some backwater VP choice. b,121and im getting that "dems sinking fast" feeling head to toeb,121but trying to stay calm and patient
Quote:/font1h,121b,121b,121and im getting that "dems sinking fast" feeling head to toeb,121but trying to stay calm and patient b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Yeah - I mean, maybe that spidey sense is totally real and in about a month, we'll be borne out correctly. I just think though this is an example of people reliving the past rather than focusing in the present. And hey, I can't blame them. Any society that got Bush elected twice is deserving of as much cynicism as is available in the world.b,121b,121BUT, we need to think positive and not be defeatist. This election is winnable without the Dems having to jump through hoops. Barring something really unforeseen, a competently run campaign will bear fruit. Of course, maybe it's that whole "competence" thing that has people shook.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121b,121b,121I mean, seriously, why should Obama be qualified for president? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121I've been thinking about this question. People please add on.b,1211) The presidents first duty is to uphold the constitution. Obama has study and taught the constitution. b,1212) Judgment and skill. He entered law school complete inexperienced in law school, and excelled. He became the editor of the Harvard Law Review completely inexperienced, and excelled. He became a community organizer completely inexperienced, and excelled. He became a state senator completely inexperienced, and excelled. He became a US senator completely inexperienced, and excelled. He became an author completely inexperienced, and excelled. He became a presidential candidate completely inexperienced, and excelled.b,1213) A good understanding of wide ranging policy issues and on the right side of most issues. b,121b,121People, please add on.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121b,121b,121I mean, seriously, why should Obama be qualified for president? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121I've been thinking about this question. People please add on.b,1211) The presidents first duty is to uphold the constitution. Obama has study and taught the constitution. b,1212) Judgment and skill. He entered law school complete inexperienced in law school, and excelled. He became the editor of the Harvard Law Review completely inexperienced, and excelled. He became a community organizer completely inexperienced, and excelled. He became a state senator completely inexperienced, and excelled. He became a US senator completely inexperienced, and excelled. He became an author completely inexperienced, and excelled. He became a presidential candidate completely inexperienced, and excelled.b,1213) A good understanding of wide ranging policy issues and on the right side of most issues. b,121b,121People, please add on. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121But will he throw shots with me at the hunting lodge and laugh at my dumb blonde jokes?
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