Eddie Kendricks Question (Disco Related)

spelunkspelunk 3,400 Posts
edited April 2008 in Strut Central
Whenever I listen to Eddie Kendricks' first two solo albums (which are obviously fantastic), I can't help but notice that many of the more uptempo tracks remind me of a sound that I associate with disco, both in the vocals and the steady, driving rhythm.I've read up a bit on the years when the disco sound was formed in the 70s (Turn the Beat Around), and obviously Kendricks leaned towards that sound later in his career, but for the most part I don't know too much and haven't really heard any real early mixes.Were Kendricks tracks like "Something's Burning" or "Girl You Need a Change of Mind" disco DJ staples? I know that's a pretty naive question but I'm curious.
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  • p_gunnp_gunn 2,284 Posts


    Were Kendricks tracks like "Something's Burning" or "Girl You Need a Change of Mind" disco DJ staples? I know that's a pretty naive question but I'm curious.

    yes...

    "girl you need a change of mind" is on tons of those disco re-edits and reissues white labels... in that book "last night a DJ saved my life", they call it the first disco record...

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    I wasn't there, but "Girl You Need A Change Of Mind" was definitely a staple of the early - I repeat, early - disco sound.

    This New York-based writer named Vince Aletti used to write about soul music for magazines like Creem and Rolling Stone back then, and he often cited "Girl..." as a seminal record in the movement. And this was back when it was happening (1973), not in retrospect.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    I've often heard the same thing about the Kendricks' song too. What exactly made it so different at the time? The length? The number of changes?

  • I've often heard the same thing about the Kendricks' song too. What exactly made it so different at the time? The length? The number of changes?

    Both the lenght and the number of changes made the song perfect for early disco dancefloors. Kendricks was *pissed* that the track was embraced in such a way: his whole idea was to create the type of uplifting suspense / release associated with church, not a soundtrack for (gay) debauchery (sp)


    source: loves saves the day, a history of american dance music.


  • legend has it that harold melvin 'the love i lost' was the originator of the 'disco sound' when the engineer accidentally left the hi-hat too high in the mix. record went on to be a massive hit in the clubs, and the hi-hat sound was copied and became the staple groove of disco. not taking anything away from eddie of course, who was fantastic.

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    I've often heard the same thing about the Kendricks' song too. What exactly made it so different at the time? The length? The number of changes?

    Both the lenght and the number of changes made the song perfect for early disco dancefloors. Kendricks was *pissed* that the track was embraced in such a way: his whole idea was to create the type of uplifting suspense / release associated with church, not a soundtrack for (gay) debauchery (sp)

    At the same time, though, that's a critical element of the tune's popularity - disco, particularly the underground "loft" variety, was all about uplifting, soulful, strong messages and vibes. It was about coming out, being proud, embracing yourself and others, and getting down no matter who you were. There has always been a heavy gospel influence in the tunes that are considered "loft classics".

  • DongerDonger 854 Posts
    Whenever I listen to Eddie Kendricks' first two solo albums (which are obviously fantastic), I can't help but notice that many of the more uptempo tracks remind me of a sound that I associate with disco, both in the vocals and the steady, driving rhythm.

    I've read up a bit on the years when the disco sound was formed in the 70s (Turn the Beat Around), and obviously Kendricks leaned towards that sound later in his career, but for the most part I don't know too much and haven't really heard any real early mixes.

    Were Kendricks tracks like "Something's Burning" or "Girl You Need a Change of Mind" disco DJ staples? I know that's a pretty naive question but I'm curious.

    "Going up in Smoke" was/is big in the disco/house clubs too.

    Look to Philadelphia too if you want to hear the roots of disco.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    Whenever I listen to Eddie Kendricks' first two solo albums (which are obviously fantastic), I can't help but notice that many of the more uptempo tracks remind me of a sound that I associate with disco, both in the vocals and the steady, driving rhythm.

    I've read up a bit on the years when the disco sound was formed in the 70s (Turn the Beat Around), and obviously Kendricks leaned towards that sound later in his career, but for the most part I don't know too much and haven't really heard any real early mixes.

    Were Kendricks tracks like "Something's Burning" or "Girl You Need a Change of Mind" disco DJ staples? I know that's a pretty naive question but I'm curious.

    "Going up in Smoke" was/is big in the disco/house clubs too.

    Look to Philadelphia too if you want to hear the roots of disco.

    Wasn't 'Date with the Rain' also as influential in the way it was a staple of the Fire Island dance parties(the same gay crowd that was core to the NYC scene)? I think that was also cited in the 'Love Saves The Day' book.

    Eddie Kendricks= HUGELY important to development of disco/dance culture

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    I've often heard the same thing about the Kendricks' song too. What exactly made it so different at the time? The length? The number of changes?

    Both the lenght and the number of changes made the song perfect for early disco dancefloors. Kendricks was *pissed* that the track was embraced in such a way: his whole idea was to create the type of uplifting suspense / release associated with church, not a soundtrack for (gay) debauchery (sp)


    source: loves saves the day, a history of american dance music.

    not only the length and the changes, but that breakdown in the middle of the song

    source: a guy i used to work with who was actually "of age" when the song was a hit

    even though kendricks was supposedly pissed at the new audience for his music, he knew what time it was - when his next album dropped, the big single was "keep on truckin'", which followed the same recipe as "...change of mind" - the "parts 1 & 2" length, the breakdown in the middle, the works.

    and THAT was followed by the slightly dull "boogie down", which seemed to just vamp FOREVER

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    Whenever I listen to Eddie Kendricks' first two solo albums (which are obviously fantastic), I can't help but notice that many of the more uptempo tracks remind me of a sound that I associate with disco, both in the vocals and the steady, driving rhythm.

    I've read up a bit on the years when the disco sound was formed in the 70s (Turn the Beat Around), and obviously Kendricks leaned towards that sound later in his career, but for the most part I don't know too much and haven't really heard any real early mixes.

    Were Kendricks tracks like "Something's Burning" or "Girl You Need a Change of Mind" disco DJ staples? I know that's a pretty naive question but I'm curious.

    "Going up in Smoke" was/is big in the disco/house clubs too.

    Look to Philadelphia too if you want to hear the roots of disco.

    Wasn't 'Date with the Rain' also as influential in the way it was a staple of the Fire Island dance parties(the same gay crowd that was core to the NYC scene)? I think that was also cited in the 'Love Saves The Day' book.

    Eddie Kendricks= HUGELY important to development of disco/dance culture

    Vince Aletti did a whole article about the emerging disco phenomenon in a late-'73 ish of Rolling Stone, where he cited a whole mess of tracks that were big in the clubs back then, including obvious tracks like Mandrill, the JB's, Kendricks, etc., plus some now-forgotten bands like Barrabas and Everyday People (not the black band on Red Coach, but the white band on Paramount that did "I Like What I Like" - by the time the discos discovered it, the record was already a year old and the band had broken up, so the black E.P. recorded a cover version...).

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    "Disco" music predates NYC/Loft/Gay scenes. Local Black Exp dancin to various 45's and album cuts are the foundation to that shit.

    Funky Rubber Band - by Popcorn Willie on Soul
    We The People Part 1 & 2 - The Soul Searchers
    Nation Time - The Family
    You Want It you Got It - Detroit Emeralds
    When Will It End - Honey Comb
    Ill Be Around - The Spinners
    Tanga Boo Gonk - The Nite Liters

    this is from my pops 45 stash that he rocked when he held parties in NYC back in 71-72.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    I've often heard the same thing about the Kendricks' song too. What exactly made it so different at the time? The length? The number of changes?

    Both the lenght and the number of changes made the song perfect for early disco dancefloors. Kendricks was *pissed* that the track was embraced in such a way: his whole idea was to create the type of uplifting suspense / release associated with church, not a soundtrack for (gay) debauchery (sp)


    source: loves saves the day, a history of american dance music.

    Ha - that's funny since I consider disco to be precisely that kind of music - uplifting, utopian. That's one of the core points of Tim Lawrence's book in any case but I can see how Kendricks could have been left scratching his head as to what happened.

    Batmon: Perhaps this is another one of those "proto-disco" vs. "disco" arguments, ala proto-funk vs. funk.

  • KineticKinetic 3,739 Posts
    "Disco" music predates NYC/Loft/Gay scenes. Local Black Exp dancin to various 45's and album cuts are the foundation to that shit.

    Funky Rubber Band - by Popcorn Willie on Soul
    We The People Part 1 & 2 - The Soul Searchers[/b]
    Nation Time - The Family
    You Want It you Got It - Detroit Emeralds
    When Will It End - Honey Comb
    Ill Be Around - The Spinners
    Tanga Boo Gonk - The Nite Liters

    this is from my pops 45 stash that he rocked when he held parties in NYC back in 71-72.

    Funny you mention that Soul Searchers track, because a few weeks ago when i played this out it got me thinking the same thing/question you posed about Eddie kendricks. It's funk, but it has what i'd loosely describe as a disco sensebility in some ways. I dunno what you call it really, but it just seems to be have that sound as well.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Batmon: Perhaps this is another one of those "proto-disco" vs. "disco" arguments, ala proto-funk vs. funk.

    No doubt.

    I just feel like its hard to say ONE record ushered in the sound.

  • DongerDonger 854 Posts
    "Disco" music predates NYC/Loft/Gay scenes. Local Black Exp dancin to various 45's and album cuts are the foundation to that shit.

    Funky Rubber Band - by Popcorn Willie on Soul
    We The People Part 1 & 2 - The Soul Searchers[/b]
    Nation Time - The Family
    You Want It you Got It - Detroit Emeralds
    When Will It End - Honey Comb
    Ill Be Around - The Spinners
    Tanga Boo Gonk - The Nite Liters

    this is from my pops 45 stash that he rocked when he held parties in NYC back in 71-72.

    Funny you mention that Soul Searchers track, because a few weeks ago when i played this out it got me thinking the same thing/question you posed about Eddie kendricks. It's funk, but it has what i'd loosely describe as a disco sensebility in some ways. I dunno what you call it really, but it just seems to be have that sound as well.

    When I tell my friends to come check me out at my disco night, they usually ask me the next day, "But that's not really disco is it?", and I'm all like, "that's as real as disco gets!".

    There is still a lot of confusion over what disco is to this day, even on fairly knowledgeable "record nerd" friendly sites like this one. It kind of surprises me actually. But then again, disco did mean a lot of different things, to a lot of different people even since it's inception.

    I'd rather it stay in the dark for as many people for as long as possible,

    well that is until I have ALL the disco records at least!

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    Batmon: Perhaps this is another one of those "proto-disco" vs. "disco" arguments, ala proto-funk vs. funk.

    No doubt.

    I just feel like its hard to say ONE record ushered in the sound.

    I don't think any one record ushers in any sound. Some things are just in the air. When the first discos-as-we-know-them started, there were obviously several different records on the ones and twos, it wasn't just "Girl You Need A Change Of Mind" repeated over and over.

    "Soul Makossa" has the same forerunner rep that "G.Y.N.A.C.O.M." has, to tell the truth...

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    "Disco" music predates NYC/Loft/Gay scenes. Local Black Exp dancin to various 45's and album cuts are the foundation to that shit.

    Funky Rubber Band - by Popcorn Willie on Soul
    We The People Part 1 & 2 - The Soul Searchers[/b]
    Nation Time - The Family
    You Want It you Got It - Detroit Emeralds
    When Will It End - Honey Comb
    Ill Be Around - The Spinners
    Tanga Boo Gonk - The Nite Liters

    this is from my pops 45 stash that he rocked when he held parties in NYC back in 71-72.

    Funny you mention that Soul Searchers track, because a few weeks ago when i played this out it got me thinking the same thing/question you posed about Eddie kendricks. It's funk, but it has what i'd loosely describe as a disco sensebility in some ways. I dunno what you call it really, but it just seems to be have that sound as well.

    When I tell my friends to come check me out at my disco night, they usually ask me the next day, "But that's not really disco is it?", and I'm all like, "that's as real as disco gets!".

    There is still a lot of confusion over what disco is to this day, even on fairly knowledgeable "record nerd" friendly sites like this one. It kind of surprises me actually. But then again, disco did mean a lot of different things, to a lot of different people even since it's inception.

    I'd rather it stay in the dark for as many people for as long as possible,

    well that is until I have ALL the disco records at least!

    I know what Donger is talking about when he's referring to (I'm assuming) soul from '72-73 as "disco," but I couldn't bring myself to use that term. Makes me think dark thoughts about Cerrone, Giorgio Moroder, "woop-woop" synths (like on "Ring My Bell") and those stiff-ass rhythms heard on old Casablanca 12" singles.

    At least his friends know the difference. I once spun Charles Wright & the Watts Band's "Express Yourself" at a gig and a friend of mine cracked some joke about three-piece suits and revolving disco balls - ???? It's surprising how many people (used to) think that fatback funk and slick disco are the same thing (although they do overlap).

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Batmon: Perhaps this is another one of those "proto-disco" vs. "disco" arguments, ala proto-funk vs. funk.

    No doubt.

    I just feel like its hard to say ONE record ushered in the sound.

    I don't think any one record ushers in any sound. Some things are just in the air. When the first discos-as-we-know-them started, there were obviously several different records on the ones and twos, it wasn't just "Girl You Need A Change Of Mind" repeated over and over.

    "Soul Makossa" has the same forerunner rep that "G.Y.N.A.C.O.M." has, to tell the truth...

    Exactly.

    And il add that it most likely was as well-oiled culture before Rolling Stone wroye about it.

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    I know what Donger is talking about when he's referring to (I'm assuming) soul from '72-73 as "disco," but I couldn't bring myself to use that term. Makes me think dark thoughts about Cerrone, Giorgio Moroder, "woop-woop" synths (like on "Ring My Bell") and those stiff-ass rhythms heard on old Casablanca 12" singles.
    cerrone, giorgio, 'ring my bell,' a good % of casablanca are awesome tho...

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    Batmon: Perhaps this is another one of those "proto-disco" vs. "disco" arguments, ala proto-funk vs. funk.

    No doubt.

    I just feel like its hard to say ONE record ushered in the sound.

    I don't think any one record ushers in any sound. Some things are just in the air. When the first discos-as-we-know-them started, there were obviously several different records on the ones and twos, it wasn't just "Girl You Need A Change Of Mind" repeated over and over.

    "Soul Makossa" has the same forerunner rep that "G.Y.N.A.C.O.M." has, to tell the truth...

    Exactly.

    And il add that it most likely was as well-oiled culture before Rolling Stone wroye about it.

    The guy who wrote that article was no hack - Vince Aletti was up on that stuff mainly because he was one of the people who used to hang out at those early underground clubs. He would later work for RFC Records, which was the dance-music subsidiary of Warner Bros., so if anybody'd know about that subculture, he would.

    He also had a column in Phonograph Record magazine around '74-'75 where he reviewed soul 45's - lotta early disco and now-raer funk singles were covered...

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Batmon: Perhaps this is another one of those "proto-disco" vs. "disco" arguments, ala proto-funk vs. funk.

    No doubt.

    I just feel like its hard to say ONE record ushered in the sound.

    I don't think any one record ushers in any sound. Some things are just in the air. When the first discos-as-we-know-them started, there were obviously several different records on the ones and twos, it wasn't just "Girl You Need A Change Of Mind" repeated over and over.

    "Soul Makossa" has the same forerunner rep that "G.Y.N.A.C.O.M." has, to tell the truth...

    Exactly.

    And il add that it most likely was as well-oiled culture before Rolling Stone wroye about it.

    The guy who wrote that article was no hack - Vince Aletti was up on that stuff mainly because he was one of the people who used to hang out at those early underground clubs. He would later work for RFC Records, which was the dance-music subsidiary of Warner Bros., so if anybody'd know about that subculture, he would.

    He also had a column in Phonograph Record magazine around '74-'75 where he reviewed soul 45's - lotta early disco and now-raer funk singles were covered...

    Ive read that Europe had a "disco" culture in the late 60's.

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    I know what Donger is talking about when he's referring to (I'm assuming) soul from '72-73 as "disco," but I couldn't bring myself to use that term. Makes me think dark thoughts about Cerrone, Giorgio Moroder, "woop-woop" synths (like on "Ring My Bell") and those stiff-ass rhythms heard on old Casablanca 12" singles.
    cerrone, giorgio, 'ring my bell,' a good % of casablanca are awesome tho...

    We'll agree to disagree. I wouldn't touch that stuff with a long stick.

    Although I will admit to a soft spot for the early years of disco that we're talking about, when the tone was more "soulish." "I Wouldn't Give You Up" by Ecstasy, Passion & Pain, as well as a lot of George McCrae's stuff, are both faves of mine.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Although I will admit to a soft spot for the early years of disco that we're talking about, when the tone was more "soulish." "I Wouldn't Give You Up" by Ecstasy, Passion & Pain, as well as a lot of George McCrae's stuff, are both faves of mine.


    "Houston, we have a problem...."

  • But then again, disco did mean a lot of different things, to a lot of different people even since it's inception.

    Sayin'. I'm a little hesitant to tell people "yeah man, I'mma play a lot of disco tunes" because they think of that cheese-ball "I Will Survive" shit.

    Deej:

    name some worthwhile casablanca 12''s to check because frankly I avoid them shits. I can't help but think of over the top key changes with strings and just all these elements that make me cringe

  • KineticKinetic 3,739 Posts
    Cameo's 'it's serious' is a great 12" on Casablanca.

  • Cameo's 'it's serious' is a great 12" on Casablanca.

    That's on Casablanca? Cool thanks for that info. I remember being interested in early Cameo due to hearing that band Orgone do a cover of one of their songs in their shows.

    Funny you mention Cameo, I just picked up "single life" on 12''. One of the smooooooothest jams EVAAAARRR!

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    im not gonna act like there aren't cheeseball disco songs i cant stand ('i will survive' is a good one, i dont even like thelma's version of 'dont leave me this way' since harold melvin et al did it way better) BUT 'cheese' is totally a huge part of what makes disco great. The idea of separating disco into some artificial collectro/dj-led 'cheese' and 'real' dichotomy is utterly depressing to me. Way to make disco boring!!!

    ive mentioned this before and i dont want to sound like one of those corny cult of personality dudes always talking about the loft or the garage like that was where disco began and ended, but larry levan used to spin 'cheese' all the time (so there's really no reason or EXCUSE not to)

    i havent heard everything on casablanca or anything but some trax i dig:
    'love to love you baby' (duh)
    'take me home' by cher, which levan used
    'i feel love' (duh)
    'bad girls'
    'star wars cantina theme' (leonard pt sixx does a wicked edit of this ... u can trust him right??)
    stephanie mills - medicine song

    and of course


    im assuming parliament doesnt count

    im sure there's others, im not intimately familiar w/ the catalog or anything, but the above are classics. (yeah village ppl stuff is wack, plenty of donna i cant stand, etc)

  • There's a fine line between uplifting/soulfull vs over the top schmaltz IMO. I'll even admit to saying: even though Levan is basically a don of this shit and is responsible for some amazing edits/mixes he did play his share of clunkers.

    I agree on "Cheese" being a big part of disco (it's like saying I hate rap because of all that bass) but I guess you can just tell with a certain track is just too much.

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    you also gotta remember yr talking about a largely gay audience and obviously what lots of ppl perceive as 'cheese' is very much a cultural thing there. nb showtunes. so when dudes are all 'i only like REAL DISCO not that cheesy shit' its kinda bullshit. the cheesy shit is the real shit. or they are wrapped up together forever

  • I remember being interested in early Cameo due to hearing that band Orgone do a cover of one of their songs in their shows.

    CODPIECE VALIDATED!
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