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Nader announces presidential bid; ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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  • mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
    why bother
  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts
    Oh really...f*ck him....
  • Ex-BoyfriendEx-Boyfriend 795 Posts
    yeah!
  • ariel_calmerariel_calmer 3,762 Posts
    At this point... what is Nader's problem?
  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts


    "After careful consideration I have determined that I have nothing better to do in 2008 and so I announce my candidacy for President of the United States of America."
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    Is ANYONE taking this clown seriously?

    What group of people was like "Yeah Nader, run! Good idea! This is just what America needs!"


    SMH
  • ariel_calmerariel_calmer 3,762 Posts
    BAN NADER!
  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
    Is ANYONE taking this clown seriously?

    What group of people was like "Yeah Nader, run! Good idea! This is just what America needs!"


    SMH

    Johnny there's a gathering in Philly for Naderites on Mar 13th. 5 people have signed up but one's a maybe. You might want to check it out.

    Idiot's Club Next Meeting Scheduled
  • fauxteurfauxteur 342 Posts
    he was on Meet the Press this morning -- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/
    he goes the "stolen election" route when asked about Gore's loss



    he's done some good things in the past
    but he is too idealistic and angry for my taste
    he's like Kucinich with fewer ideas and no hot wife
    and older than McCain

    he'll probably take a couple percentage pts from Obama
    3rd party candidates contributed to the demise of Gore and the first Bush ... and it could easily be close again in November
    his comments:
    If the Democrats can't landslide the Republicans this year, they ought to just wrap up, close down, emerge in a different form.
  • hammertimehammertime 2,389 Posts

    If the Democrats can't landslide the Republicans this year, they ought to just wrap up, close down, emerge in a different form.


    well to be perfectly honest i agree with this. i mean i would never vote for the guy and i don't even really like him, BUT the way people violently react when a 3rd party candidate dare throw his hat into the ring is kind of NAGL in my opinion.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    NOT just any 3rd party candidate - Nader.

    This is straight bullshit.

    And the Democrats will not landslide in November because - shock - we live in a diverse country with a wide variety of opinion and ideology and everyone gets a vote.

    It's funny/sad how people ride for 3rd party candidates but will belittle anyone who doesn't vote left. Seems like the people who think there should be more choices don't really want more choices at all.

    I have family members who will undoubtedly vote for McCain and I'm getting damn tired of reading them being called idiots, morons, nazis, or whatever. Grow up people.
  • hammertimehammertime 2,389 Posts
    And the Democrats will not landslide in November because - shock - we live in a diverse country with a wide variety of opinion and ideology and everyone gets a vote.

    well sure but public opinion (in general terms) swings back and forth over time, and I don't think the American people have ever been more fed up with the right in a long time, at least not at election time. not to mention the fact that just because everyone gets a vote doesn't mean everyone uses it. look at how many more people have been voting in the Democratic primaries compared to the Republican ones.
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts

    And the Democrats will not landslide in November because - shock - we live in a diverse country with a wide variety of opinion and ideology and everyone gets a vote.

    It's funny/sad how people ride for 3rd party candidates but will belittle anyone who doesn't vote left. Seems like the people who think there should be more choices don't really want more choices at all.

    I have family members who will undoubtedly vote for McCain and I'm getting damn tired of reading them being called idiots, morons, nazis, or whatever. Grow up people.

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    And the Democrats will not landslide in November because - shock - we live in a diverse country with a wide variety of opinion and ideology and everyone gets a vote.

    well sure but public opinion (in general terms) swings back and forth over time, and I don't think the American people have ever been more fed up with the right in a long time, at least not at election time. not to mention the fact that just because everyone gets a vote doesn't mean everyone uses it. look at how many more people have been voting in the Democratic primaries compared to the Republican ones.

    Right - but what you (and many others) seem not to understand is that someone can be totally fed up and still vote for a conservative candidate. I mean, you're talking about Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. There is a huge segment of the country that will not vote for either person. One thing doesn't necessarily lead to the next.
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    And the Democrats will not landslide in November because - shock - we live in a diverse country with a wide variety of opinion and ideology and everyone gets a vote.

    well sure but public opinion (in general terms) swings back and forth over time, and I don't think the American people have ever been more fed up with the right in a long time, at least not at election time. not to mention the fact that just because everyone gets a vote doesn't mean everyone uses it. look at how many more people have been voting in the Democratic primaries compared to the Republican ones.

    Right - but what you (and many others) seem not to understand is that someone can be totally fed up and still vote for a conservative candidate. I mean, you're talking about Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. There is a huge segment of the country that will not vote for either person. One thing doesn't necessarily lead to the next.

    Jonny....I'm gonna sit back and let you carry this torch a while.

    Some folks will never get it.
  • hammertimehammertime 2,389 Posts

    Right - but what you (and many others) seem not to understand is that someone can be totally fed up and still vote for a conservative candidate. I mean, you're talking about Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. There is a huge segment of the country that will not vote for either person. One thing doesn't necessarily lead to the next.


    no you're right...one thing doesn't necessarily lead to the next. but you can't say "they won't win in a landslide because we live in a diverse country", because by that logic no one would EVER win in a landslide (which isn't true) and why would Congress swing from Rep control to Dems and back over time? because people get fed up with shit and want something else.


    also, i haven't seen anyone in this thread belittle those that don't vote left...i guess that was just a general statement?
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    Yeah it was a general statement.

    The only time a politician wins in a landslide is when they effectively court people from the opposite side of the spectrum - Reagan being the best example.

    Obama's youth and color are going to prevent him from doing that to a great extent.
  • hammertimehammertime 2,389 Posts
    I guess you're right...McCain's "rebel" status within the right is also a factor, it's not like Obama's running against GWB Part 2. I still can't see Nader having a big impact on this election, but maybe it will be enough...we'll see.
  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts

    Obama's youth and color are going to prevent him from doing that to a great extent.

    Wrong and Wronger. Barack's liberal political agenda is what will make it difficult for him to blow McCain out in November. Much of the country is evenly divided. Still, he is on course for a repeat of Clinton's decided 10 point margin over Dole. Don't believe me? All the factors are coming into play. Economy blamed on Repubs. Check. Unpopular war blamed on GOP. Check. Youthful, charismatic speaker vs Hagard looking war veteran with gimpy arms. Check. Check Clinton's map in 1996. Barack could very readily carry all of those states (save AZ) and pick up Colorado, Virginia and Montana (maybe even Kansas just based on the hometown factor). It will be close in places like FLA, Tex, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Missouri to be sure. But unless Barck makes a major mistake this is over.

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    I hope against hope that he will not... has enough of the left gotten their fill of his self-obsessed candidacy?

    But some national polls have McCain and Obama in a statistical tie. So Nader votes might count.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts

    Obama's youth and color are going to prevent him from doing that to a great extent.

    Wrong and Wronger. Barack's liberal political agenda is what will make it difficult for him to blow McCain out in November.

    You're correct that this is more important than his skin color, but the majority of McCain supporters I've talked to are concerned about his age, primarily. I think you underestimate how big this is with older, poorer, less well-educated, more "family values"-oriented voters.

    I do agree that a 10-pt win like Clinton is probable.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    Not to mention, Perot siphoned votes off the Republican ticket... Nader will do the other way around.

    Crooks And Liars... which I think is about as left as it gets... said the following:


    It???s official:



    RUSSERT: Will you run for president as an Independent in 2008?

    NADER: Let me put it in context, to make it a little more palatable to people who have closed minds. 24% of the American people are satisfied with the state of the country, according to Gallup. That???s about the lowest ranking ever. 61% think both major parties are failing. And according to Frank Luntz???s poll, the Republican, 80% will consider voting for an independent this year. Now you take that framework, of people feeling locked out, shut out, marginalized, disrespected and you go from Iraq to Palestine to Israel. From Enron to Wall Street. From Katrina to the bungling of the Bush administration to the complicity of the Democrats in not stopping him on the war, stopping him on the tax cuts, getting a decent energy bill through and you have to ask yourself, as a citizen, should we elaborate the issues that the two are not talking about? And the???all the candidates, McCain, Obama and Clinton, are against single-payer health insurance. Full Medicare for all. I???m for it. As well as millions of Americans and 59% of physicians in a forthcoming poll this April. People don???t like Pentagon waste, the bloated military budget, all of the reports in the press and the GAO reports. A wasteful defense is a weak defense. It takes away taxpayer money that can go to the necessities of the American people. That???s off the table, to Obama and Clinton and McCain. The issue of labor law reform: repealing the notorious Taft-Hartley act, that keeps workers who are now more defenseless than ever against corporate globalization from organizing to defend their interests. Cracking down on corporate crime. The media???the mainstream media???repeatedly indicated how trillions of dollars have been drained and fleeced and looted from millions of workers and investors who don???t have many rights these days. And pensioners. You know, when you see the paralysis of the government, when you see Washington D.C. be corporate-occupied territory???every department agency controlled by overwhelming presence of corporate lobbyists, corporate executives in high government positions???turning the government against its own people, one feels an obligation, Tim, to try to open the doorways, to try to get better ballot access, to respect dissent in America in terms of third parties and independent candidates. To recognize historically the great issues have come in our history???against slavery, women???s rights to vote, and worker and farmer progressives, through little parties that never ran???won any national election. Dissent is the mother of assent. And in that context, I have decided to run for President.



    It was a simple yes or no question, Ralph. His ???context for closed minds??? frankly offends me. I don???t disagree with anything that he said (other than citing Frank Luntz. I mean, come on!), and I am a big believer in having viable third, fourth and even fifth parties to help break the gridlock in Washington DC, I???m even a registered third party voter. That said, I have to ask: Where have you been, Ralph? What have you done in the last eight years (and I???m willing to hold the Democrats responsible for some???but not all???of the ongoing mess, but let???s lay the onus for how messed up everything is squarely on the shoulders of the Bush administration) to help make third parties more viable and allow them a voice on the national stage? How is showing up more than a year into presidential politicking with just a few months left helpful to the validity of third parties?



    Making independents more meaningful isn???t an eleventh hour appearance on a talking head show. It takes years of sustained effort and commitment, something I haven???t seen Nader do. So the question must be asked: who is this run really for?

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts

    Obama's youth and color are going to prevent him from doing that to a great extent.

    Wrong and Wronger. Barack's liberal political agenda is what will make it difficult for him to blow McCain out in November. Much of the country is evenly divided. Still, he is on course for a repeat of Clinton's decided 10 point margin over Dole. Don't believe me? All the factors are coming into play. Economy blamed on Repubs. Check. Unpopular war blamed on GOP. Check. Youthful, charismatic speaker vs Hagard looking war veteran with gimpy arms. Check. Check Clinton's map in 1996. Barack could very readily carry all of those states (save AZ) and pick up Colorado, Virginia and Montana (maybe even Kansas just based on the hometown factor). It will be close in places like FLA, Tex, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Missouri to be sure. But unless Barck makes a major mistake this is over.


    As a Barack supporter this type of attitude pisses me off.

    There has never been a serious black Presedential candidate in this country.

    We have NO idea how the citizens of this country will react when faced with this scenario.

    For you to declare this election "in the bag" is ignorant at best.

    This is not a walk in the park, it's an uphill battle from now until November.

    Even with a 10% lead in the polls the day before the Election, I don't believe you can declare Obama(or Clinton) the winner until the votes are counted.

    Maybe you're just setting up a scenario where you convince yourself it's in the bag and if McCain wins you'll blame it on some Diebold voting fraud bullshit.
  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts

    Obama's youth and color are going to prevent him from doing that to a great extent.

    Wrong and Wronger. Barack's liberal political agenda is what will make it difficult for him to blow McCain out in November.

    You're correct that this is more important than his skin color, but the majority of McCain supporters I've talked to are concerned about his age, primarily. I think you underestimate how big this is with older, poorer, less well-educated, more "family values"-oriented voters.

    I do agree that a 10-pt win like Clinton is probable.

    I guess my recent discussions with the older, poorer, less well-educated, more "family values"-oriented voters has really open my eyes to how charismatic Obama is and how little they like McCain. I work in the real estate/construction business. Most of my colleagues are very conservative. McCain largely appeals to dudes and reporters. Things have changed. Gone are the days of 2000 when he was pimping campaign finance reform and other "liberal" agendas while threatening Iraq and N. Korea. The kind of "I'm my own guy" fence walking which gave guys like Rockadelic a woody when he spoke. Dude is gonna run as a conservative (which is what he really is except in a few cases) and lose his base (who question his social views) and lot of independents who despise the war. McCain is a terrible candidate for these guys and that's why the establishment tried to stop him.

    So which is for you 10pt win or squeaker at the wire?
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    There has never been a serious Black Presidential candidate in this country.

    Depends on your perspective.
  • kidinquisitivekidinquisitive 1,627 Posts
    Nader didn't matter in 2004 and he's going to matter even less in 2008.
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts

    Obama's youth and color are going to prevent him from doing that to a great extent.

    Wrong and Wronger. Barack's liberal political agenda is what will make it difficult for him to blow McCain out in November.

    You're correct that this is more important than his skin color, but the majority of McCain supporters I've talked to are concerned about his age, primarily. I think you underestimate how big this is with older, poorer, less well-educated, more "family values"-oriented voters.

    I do agree that a 10-pt win like Clinton is probable.

    I guess my recent discussions with the older, poorer, less well-educated, more "family values"-oriented voters has really open my eyes to how charismatic Obama is and how little they like McCain. I work in the real estate/construction business. Most of my colleagues are very conservative. McCain largely appeals to dudes and reporters. Things have changed. Gone are the days of 2000 when he was pimping campaign finance reform and other "liberal" agendas while threatening Iraq and N. Korea. The kind of "I'm my own guy" fence walking which gave guys like Rockadelic a woody when he spoke. Dude is gonna run as a conservative (which is what he really is except in a few cases) and lose his base (who question his social views) and lot of independents who despise the war. McCain is a terrible candidate for these guys and that's why the establishment tried to stop him.

    So which is for you 10pt win or squeaker at the wire?

    I'm disturbed that you think you know what gives me a woody.

    Or were you just stereotyping??
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts

    Obama's youth and color are going to prevent him from doing that to a great extent.

    Wrong and Wronger. Barack's liberal political agenda is what will make it difficult for him to blow McCain out in November.

    You're correct that this is more important than his skin color, but the majority of McCain supporters I've talked to are concerned about his age, primarily. I think you underestimate how big this is with older, poorer, less well-educated, more "family values"-oriented voters.

    I do agree that a 10-pt win like Clinton is probable.

    I guess my recent discussions with the older, poorer, less well-educated, more "family values"-oriented voters has really open my eyes to how charismatic Obama is and how little they like McCain. I work in the real estate/construction business. Most of my colleagues are very conservative.

    You live in Oregon right?

    Just saying, there's a different kind of conservative out there, such as my father-in-law in Nevada or my grandmother in Florida who are not going to vote for a 46 year old Black man with 3 years in the Senate. Simple as that.
  • kidinquisitivekidinquisitive 1,627 Posts
    There has never been a serious Black Presidential candidate in this country.

    Depends on your perspective.

    Jesse Jackson ran a very competitive, credible campaign in '84, I think it was.
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