more bad news
tripledouble
7,636 Posts
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071206/ap_on_re_us/mall_shootingso, should we issue every 18 year old a gun, just in case another 18 year old with a gun has a bad day?we got sooooooooo many dipshits in this country. easy access to weapons makes for a bad mix.one stupid ass headline: are america's malls safe?dumb fuckers.
Comments
word. you have the right to get ready to be shot by psycho armed kid vigilantes with meaningless empty suburban lives
out of interest:
Presumably you would have to put this to a referendum in order to change it. What would the result likely be, would it be close or just landslide no? (or even yes)
We need to update that thing. Shit, those dudes didn't even have telephones when they wrote that mess, let alone automatic assault rifles, and armor piercing rounds. Do you really believe that we should adhere to it just because it's there? Clearly some of the consitution and its later revisions, do wonders for us daily, but it--along with the electoral college, and other antiquated facets of our government--is not keeping up with the rate of recent history.
forms of gun control put in place, anyone thinking
that a majority of Americans will support any kind
of repeal or revision of the 2nd Amendment is incredibly
it's unfortunate, but
I was just stating the facts, and facts is facts: you can't just have a blanket ban on guns because of the 2nd Amendment. Myself, I don't own any guns and don't like the things at all, but I do recognize that people should have the right to own them. That said, I fully agree that when they Constitution was written times were much different and they certainly didn't have the kinds of guns in mind that exist now. They also lived in a time where a well-armed militia could actually make a difference. These days it'd be laughable for a group of people with guns to think they could actually overthrow our government with all the other tools the government has at their disposal.
Myself, I think the right to gun ownership should be upheld, but I also think you can regulate the kinds of guns people should be able to own. There's gun nuts that would disagree with this vehemently, but I can't think of a single legitimate purpose for an individual to need assault rifles and things of that sort. There's people that claim they use assault rifles for hunting but come on, are you really such a pussy that you need an assault rifle to kill an animal from far away?
The real problem is even if you ban assault rifles and armor-piercing bullets and the like it's not going to end gun violence. Somebody going into a mall with a .22 can still do some damage, they don't need an assault rifle. The other problem is that legislation will never keep illegal things out of people's hands if they really desire them. Marijuana's illegal but I bet every one of us could find some in about 10 minutes if we really wanted to. If people are determined to have illegal arms they'll find a way. Legislating some weapons might keep people from buying weapons on the spur-of-the-moment but the truth is if somebody is planning something in advance they'll get a weapon one way or another.
theres different faces of the problem
theres illegal guns that create most of the gun violence here in philly...yearly registering of guns (like cars) could have an effect on that.
then theres legally issued guns being wielded by off balance people in middle-white america world...and i dont know what the hell can imapact that.
you wont be able to pry my sack out of cold dead hands
If I were a gambling man, I'd bet that once the profile of the killer is revealed, we're going to get
(1) loner
(2) in need of psychiatric help
with the conclusions that
(3) all the signs were there "...he kept himself to himself, was a bit weird" etc
(4) he listened to Marlyn Manson/Tupac/Phil Collins
Could the real problem be something to do with the difference between an individualist society and a collectivist one? As the world's foremost individualist society, America seems to lead the way with this sort of thing, but the rest of the west is also falling into step, and the connection would appear to be rampant consumerism/capitalist mindset; it just doesn't seem to be very beneficial to society. How long before this happens on a regular basis and everybody is just "Ohh, another one? Was it near me? Nah? That's ok then..."
Oh. Wait a minute.
"Out of my cold, dead hands!"
Oh yeah, the above is not meant as a "your country is stupid" comment, just pondering some of the reasons, as each time this happens there seems to be less shock and more acceptance - when the first one of these 'recent' things happened (Columbine), everybody I saw the next day mentioned it, but this morning in the office, I haven't heard anyone say a thing about the Mall shootings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings
Well known shootings
United States
* University of Texas at Austin massacre - Austin, Texas, United States; August 1, 1966
* Orangeburg Massacre - Orangeburg, South Carolina, United States; February 8, 1968
* Kent State shootings - Kent, Ohio, United States; May 4, 1970
* Jackson State killings - Jackson, Mississippi, United States; May 14-15, 1970
* California State University, Fullerton Library Massacre - Fullerton, California, United States; July 12, 1976
* Cleveland Elementary School shooting - San Diego, California, United States; January 29, 1979
* Parkway South Junior High School shooting - Saint Louis, Missouri, United States; January 20, 1983
* Stockton massacre - Stockton, California, United States; January 17, 1989
* University of Iowa shooting - Iowa City, Iowa, United States; November 1, 1991
* Simon's Rock College of Bard shooting - Great Barrington, Massachusetts, United States; December 14, 1992
* Lindhurst High School shooting - Marysville, Californa, United States; May 1, 1992
* East Carter High School shooting - Grayson, Kentucky, United States; January 18, 1993
* Richland High School shooting - Lynnville, Tennessee, United States; November 15, 1995.
* Frontier Junior High shooting - Moses Lake, Washington, United States; February 2, 1996
* Bethel High School shooting - Bethel, Alaska, United States; February 19, 1997
* Pearl High School shooting, Pearl, Mississippi, United States; October 1, 1997
* Heath High School shooting, West Paducah, Kentucky, United States; December 1, 1997
* Jonesboro massacre - Jonesboro, Arkansas, United States; March 24, 1998
* Parker Middle School Shooting - Edinboro, Pennsylvania; April 24, 1998
* Thurston High School shooting - Springfield, Oregon, United States; May 21, 1998
* Columbine High School massacre - near Littleton, Colorado, United States; April 20, 1999[/b]
* Heritage High School shooting - Conyers, Georgia, United States; May 20, 1999
* Santana High School shooting - Santee, California, United States; March 5, 2001
* Granite Hills High School shooting - El Cajon, California; March 22, 2001
* Appalachian School of Law shooting - Grundy, Virginia, United States; January 16, 2002
* Red Lion Area Junior High School shootings - Red Lion, Pennsylvania, United States; April 24, 2003
* Rocori High School shootings - Cold Spring, Minnesota, United States; September 24, 2003
* Red Lake High School massacre - Red Lake, Minnesota, United States; March 21, 2005
* Campbell County High School shooting - Jacksboro, Tennessee: November 8, 2005
* Platte Canyon High School shooting - Bailey, Colorado, United States; September 27, 2006
* Weston High School shooting, Cazenovia, Wisconsin September 29, 2006
* Amish school shooting - Nickel Mines, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, United States; October 2, 2006
* Virginia Tech massacre - Blacksburg, Virginia, United States; April 16, 2007
* Delaware State University shooting - Dover, Delaware, United States; September 21, 2007
* SuccessTech Academy shooting - Cleveland, Ohio, United States; October 10, 2007
Canada
* Centennial Secondary School Brampton - Ontario,Canada; May 28, 1975
* St Pius X High School School - Ottawa,Ontario, Canada; October 27, 1975
* ??cole Polytechnique Massacre - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; December 6, 1989
* Concordia University massacre - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; August 24, 1992
* W. R. Myers High School shooting - Taber, Alberta, Canada; April 28, 1999
* Dawson College shooting - Montreal, Quebec, Canada; September 13, 2006
* C.W. Jefferys Collegiate Institute shooting - Toronto, Ontario, Canada; May 23, 2007
Other countries
* Raumanmeri school shooting - Rauma, Finland; January 24, 1989
* Dunblane massacre - Dunblane, Scotland, United Kingdom; March 13, 1996
* Sanaa massacre - Sanaa, Yemen; March 30, 1997
* Erfurt massacre - Erfurt, Germany; April 26, 2002
* Monash University shooting - Melbourne, Australia; October 21, 2002
* Geschwister Scholl attack - Emsdetten, Germany; November 20, 2006
* Beirut Arab University shooting - Beirut, Lebanon; January 25, 2007
* Jokela school shooting - Tuusula, Finland; November 7, 2007
10 minutes? Fuck, I wish that were true.
The way to reduce gun ownership and gun crime has to be a combination of carrot and stick. Tighter ownership regulations, bigger penalties and a gun amnesty whereby the government buys your weapon back off you.
This is how they do it in war zones when the fighting is over and the country is saturated with small arms. $100 bounty for every weapon you surrender. But, no, it won't stop the crazies.
Sayin. We have a system of governance--and living--in place that is based on a world not at all like the one that has grown around us. It's difficult to solve a problem when you're just cutting off the heads of hydras.
Just wanted to mention that this was not an individual opening fire on a group of people - by all accounts Jordan Manners, the 15 who was killed, was targeted.
I think Duderonomy is on point. There's a much larger social issue to be addressed here than just guns. I do not believe that if guns didn't exist these kids would be sitting helplessly at home, unable to hurt anyone.
Hell, they might even decide to go bigger, making home-made bombs. [slippery-slope fallacy] Should we ban the internet so they can't learn how? [/slippery-slope fallacy]
I support gun control, but I can't get behind banning guns altogether. That's a pretty big knee-jerk, if you ask me.
That said, it'd be interesting to see how any state would enforce a gun ban, if it came to that. What seems more likely would be severe restrictions on things like assault rifles.
agreed.. especially in light of his suicide note exclaiming "now i'll be famous"
question on that HUGE list of school shootings have the shooters EVER survived?
i know in this case * Jokela school shooting - Tuusula, Finland; November 7, 2007
the shooter was shot by the police but survved.. not sure if he later died..
one wonders about the media circus if they ever caught one of these characters alive.
Kip Kinkel.
Ceremony recalls Montreal shooting victims
The Canadian Press
December 6, 2007 at 1:07 PM EST
MONTREAL ??? About 60 people attended a ceremony in Montreal on Thursday to mark the 18th anniversary of the day that a gunman stalked the halls of the ??cole Polytechnique and killed 14 women.
A white rose was put on each of the 14 stainless steel monuments at a square named in memory of Marc Lepine's victims, while 14 white ribbons were tied around nearby trees.
The ceremony was just one of several scheduled across the country on the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women.
Flags on all federal buildings were lowered to half-mast, while dozens of women in Halifax held a moment of silence and unfurled a clothesline containing blue panels made by abused women.
Many had messages about their experiences at the hands of their assailants, with one listing the grim emotions linked to their abuse: pain, guilt, confusion and isolation.
Another described how she had been abused for 35 years, starting when she was just two years old.
Carolyn Bolivar-Getson, the minister responsible for the status of women, said the rates of violence are far too high, with the attacks more often than not coming at the hands of people known to the victims.
Amanda Foley with Girl Guides Canada said she began researching the massacre and was stunned to learn more about how Mr. Lepine singled out women simply because of their gender.
???The fact these 14 women were killed based specifically on their gender, to put it bluntly, completely disgusted me,??? the 17-year-old told the crowd.
The 1989 shootings prompted the creation of the Coalition for Gun Control, which successfully lobbied the federal government to pass tougher gun control legislation in 1991 and 1995.
On Thursday, the coalition was honoured with an award from Quebec's police unions.
Wendy Cukier, a law professor who co-founded the coalition with ??cole Polytechnique student Heidi Rathjen, warned that the country's gun laws risked being undone by the Conservative government.
???We have a government that is committed to dismantling the legislation,??? she said. ???So on the one hand we feel like we've made progress, on the other hand we feel as if we're starting all over.???
In Ottawa, Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued a statement to mark the day.
???On Dec. 6, 1989, 14 young, bright, ambitious students at l'??cole Polytechnique de Montreal were murdered by a hate-filled gunman,??? the statement said.
???The scale of the slaughter was shocking, but even more horrifying was the killer's motive: Every one of the victims was a woman.
???As we mark this tragic anniversary let us rededicate ourselves to preventing and eliminating violence against women, and to making our communities safer for all of us.???
Liberal Leader St??phane Dion also recalled the massacre.
???As we remember this tragic incident, we are reminded of the existing reality of violence against women,??? Mr. Dion said in a statement.
???Every day, women and girls across Canada and around the world experience emotional, physical and sexual violence, usually at the hands of someone they know.
???Although the prevalence of gender-based violence is alarming, we must remember that today is also a call for action. Each one of us must work within our community and with the help of our governments to prevent and eliminate violence against women.???
not exactly. your right about the literal language of the 2nd amendment (it doesnt say anything about an individual's right to own a gun), but your wrong about the interpretation and the issue before the Supreme Court.
a majority of courts have held that there is no constitutional right to own a gun. accordingly, states and cities can do whatever they want in these jurisdictions, or at least have done whatever they wanted to do. In DC, there has been a 20 year ban on handguns and for obvious reasons. its violent as hell there. however, when the issue of the handgun ban came up in the dc district & circuit courts, it was decided that individuals DO have a right to handguns, specifically here, where there was no ban on shotguns.
the sole issue before the SC is: "whether the 2nd amendment forbids DC from banning handguns considering that DC gives individuals the right to have shotguns."
i think your wrong about the broad issue of state v. federal because if the court sticks to this limited issue, and finds against DC, the law would seem to be that a city could still ban guns, just as long as they did so across the board. again, the court can make the issue broader than that if they choose. it definitely is a big case.