I don't want to derail this thread, but what's so good about Die Hard? I see its historical value (spawning some Segal films isn't much to brag about, though), Willis is clearly at his best and the action sequences are fine. A couple of things that bother me about it: most of the characters are idiotic and cliche (the police chief, the hostages, FBI, the reporter, etc.) and the relationship between Willis and the guy on the radio is very contrived. Yeah, you don't watch an action film for that stuff, but as far as mood and action goes, Woo is clearly superior or even things like First Blood. I actually used to rate Die Hard as a good action film, but I just saw it again a few days ago, and was very unimpressed.
And what's up with ALL the Germans having pony tails or long hair?
But back to John Connor-- Bale is a good choice, I think.
I think Die hard was actually a redefinition of the detective as hero. Blade Runner was a more literal interpretation of the Noir genre. The original detective movies almost always played out the same way. The Sam Spades were always these tough as nails Dick tracy types that just seemed fake. Even Dirty Harry's motivations and actions felt like there was a big boundary between him and the average guy.
Willis took the Mcclane character and turned it into just a cop from New york going through real family shit. Who reluctantly ends up in this elaborate situation. There were no Car Chases or confusing twists, no long karate sequences, or CG effects. He wasn't some genius or specially trained. Which makes you feel like the average guy could actually pull it off in a situation like this. Plus he was limited in supplys so it really jumped off the survival action genre.
He has a geniuine since of humor so none of his trademark lines seemed forced or fake. All his motivations were reasonable. The biggest contribution to the action genre from this movie was that he was forced to get creative to fight back the terrorists. In a situation like this all rules are off, and it sort of borrowed traits from the great Western movies.
Also, it had probably one of the Greatest Villain performances ever by Alan Rickman.
Oh yeah, and it actually acknowledges black people on an equal role level.
What's not to love about Die hard?
- spidey
Oh yeah, and Bale is a fine actor, but the Terminator series feels like a sinking ship. Especially without Cameron at the helm.
Sam Spades were always these tough as nails Dick tracy types that just seemed fake.
Interesting, since Spade was considered the start of the more realistic detective, an average joe compared to the drawing room intellectual that defined the genre previously. A Detective who got by more on wits and guts than pure analysis. Like McClane.
Dick Tracy was a comic strip, with gadgets and monsters - hardboiled detectives have little in common with that.
Holy Shit! People always laugh when I say that, but I'm always totally serious! Its the best xmas movie out there, followed only by this overlooked gem:
Sam Spades were always these tough as nails Dick tracy types that just seemed fake.
Interesting, since Spade was considered the start of the more realistic detective, an average joe compared to the drawing room intellectual that defined the genre previously. A Detective who got by more on wits and guts than pure analysis. Like McClane.
Dick Tracy was a comic strip, with gadgets and monsters - hardboiled detectives have little in common with that.
It's why Sam Spade and John Mcclane stick out. They're both characters that evolved the detective hero.
I don't want to derail this thread, but what's so good about Die Hard? I see its historical value (spawning some Segal films isn't much to brag about, though), Willis is clearly at his best and the action sequences are fine. A couple of things that bother me about it: most of the characters are idiotic and cliche (the police chief, the hostages, FBI, the reporter, etc.) and the relationship between Willis and the guy on the radio is very contrived. Yeah, you don't watch an action film for that stuff, but as far as mood and action goes, Woo is clearly superior or even things like First Blood. I actually used to rate Die Hard as a good action film, but I just saw it again a few days ago, and was very unimpressed.
And what's up with ALL the Germans having pony tails or long hair?
But back to John Connor-- Bale is a good choice, I think.
I can't believe you just listed First Blood as superior to Die Hard.
Basically, as Spidey touches on, the character of McClane introduced a new level of 'ordinary guy in extraordinary situation' to the blockbuster action movie. I recall the first time I watched it and the scene where he pulls glass out of his feet was a moment of thrown in realism unexpected back then. Not to mention McClane's constant moaning about having to fight.
I'm recalling from memory but I seem to remember that after initially not even wanting Willis for the part Fox then didn't include his face on the posters - believing that action fans wouldn't flock to an action film starring a comedy actor.
Willis is perfect in the role, Rickman excels in his role and its combination of humour and violence have rarely been bettered. It also has a good natured charm to it missing from many similar movies.
I'm sure I could justify it better but I'm still waking up at work. Anyway, to me it's one of the real highpoints in eighties High Concept cinema and part of the trinity along with Predator and Robocop that still loom large over action films made today.
Die hard is my number 2 favorite movie of all time.
You need to watch a lot more movies.
Yeah, "Die Hard" and "favorite" don't go too well together. The other things you mentioned (Escape from New York, The Killer) are all easily better than Die Hard, no matter how you look at it.
As for Terminator 1, I can't say that I ride for it, but it's cool for what it is.
I watch a ton of movies. All the mainstream stuff, Indie stuff, Old school stuff, expiremental art house stuff, Documentarys. I love film.
Die hard has become my favorite christmas movie, and I've probably watched it more than anyother film.
Something about John Mcclane fighting a building full of terrorists barefoot is my SHIT.
- spidey
I must admit to turning the surround sound up REAL loud when he drops that C-4 down the elevator shaft.
hahah !!! fuck yeah !!
but really the scene in t2 when arnold destroys all the cop cars without hurting anyone .... that's some next level shit right there
okay you gotta break down this opinion for the masses of soulstrut, because you two are the only people i have ever heard say terminator 1 sucked. if it sucked why tha hell did you ever see 2?
really.
Terminator 1 was, is, and shall always remain a motherfucking classic.
check yourself.
Terminator came out in 1984. I was born in 1983. It wasn't till I was at least 14 or 15 when I ended up seeing it. By then it was fairly dated and sad. Though, Arnold was semi-interesting, Kyle and Sara were boring.
I can hardly sit through the whole thing now. The soundtrack was GARBAGE. I can name 100 movies I would rather watch than that one..
I do like 80's action movies. Die hard is my number 2 favorite movie of all time. I'll still sit and watch the original Hitcher all the way through. Raiders of the lost ark, Escape from New York, The Killer.. Dude there were alot of great 80's action. I just thought Terminator was shit. Also Robocop was Ultrashit.
Terminator 1 was, is, and shall always remain a motherfucking classic.
no doubt.
and here's some shit no one's said that I actually beleive so I'ma say it: T2 sucked. T2 had some dope special effects but the plot was nowhere near as interesting as T1. and Sarah Conner's weepy post-apocalyptic visions were weak. and furlong was weak. I much prefer T1.
Escape from NY, Die Hards 1&2 and Predator all son the entire Terminator franchise anway.
Escape From NY sons the entire Terminator franchise anway.
like a muhfucka. this shit is so tired and weak. i rember seeing this is theatres and thinking 'snake is back for this?' the bruce campbell cameo was cool tho.
and here's some shit no one's said that I actually beleive so I'ma say it: T2 sucked. T2 had some dope special effects but the plot was nowhere near as interesting as T1. and Sarah Conner's weepy post-apocalyptic visions were weak. and furlong was weak. I much prefer T1.
Escape from NY, Die Hards 1&2 and Predator all son the entire Terminator franchise anway.
die hard 1 is classic,the rest of the series ranges from mediocre to shitty. predator 1 is classic,part 2 is a cinematic war crime.aside from the 'i know why you humans cry' bullschitt, terminator 2 is the Frickin' truth.the skin being flayed from sarah conner's body is a weak vision?? the visuals in that movie still hold up. t3 was an abortion, but cameron wasn't involved so i don't care.
Escape From NY sons the entire Terminator franchise anway.
^^^^ now you're just changing the subject. ESC from NY is a classic and stands up both to the best Sci-Fi and the best action flicks. I don't even count Esc from LA. Esc from NY is to Esc from LA as Caddyshack is to Caddyshack II. they have nothing to do with each other.
I stand by my statement: Escape From NY sons the entire Terminator franchise anway.
Escape From NY sons the entire Terminator franchise anway.
^^^^ now you're just changing the subject. ESC from NY is a classic and stands up both to the best Sci-Fi and the best action flicks. I don't even count Esc from LA. Esc from NY is to Esc from LA as Caddyshack is to Caddyshack II. they have nothing to do with each other.
I stand by my statement: Escape From NY sons the entire Terminator franchise anway.
Ur absolutely correct. I own Escape from NY on DVD - Deluxe.
I just wanted to bring up LA to show that it was pimped out like the other joints discussed.
Terminator 1 was, is, and shall always remain a motherfucking classic.
no doubt.
and here's some shit no one's said that I actually beleive so I'ma say it: T2 sucked. T2 had some dope special effects but the plot was nowhere near as interesting as T1. and Sarah Conner's weepy post-apocalyptic visions were weak. and furlong was weak. I much prefer T1.
Escape from NY, Die Hards 1&2 and Predator all son the entire Terminator franchise anway.
T2 has many great moments but also represents another step in Cameron's transition as a director from hard as fuck to soft batch. Aliens, despite it's brilliance, started the trend with Newt. The Abyss switched halfway through into a sentimental hotch potch of cgi. Then came T2 with it's mixture of brilliant action scenes and not brilliant furlong. True Lies came next with it's self indulgent nonsensical love in and next thing you know in 13 years you've gone from an android punching a hole through someone's chest to irish jigs and celine dion.
Comments
sick...I haven't been this anxious for a movie in a long time. Begins is one of my favorites
I think Die hard was actually a redefinition of the detective as hero. Blade Runner was a more literal interpretation of the Noir genre. The original detective movies almost always played out the same way. The Sam Spades were always these tough as nails Dick tracy types that just seemed fake. Even Dirty Harry's motivations and actions felt like there was a big boundary between him and the average guy.
Willis took the Mcclane character and turned it into just a cop from New york going through real family shit. Who reluctantly ends up in this elaborate situation. There were no Car Chases or confusing twists, no long karate sequences, or CG effects. He wasn't some genius or specially trained. Which makes you feel like the average guy could actually pull it off in a situation like this. Plus he was limited in supplys so it really jumped off the survival action genre.
He has a geniuine since of humor so none of his trademark lines seemed forced or fake. All his motivations were reasonable. The biggest contribution to the action genre from this movie was that he was forced to get creative to fight back the terrorists. In a situation like this all rules are off, and it sort of borrowed traits from the great Western movies.
Also, it had probably one of the Greatest Villain performances ever by Alan Rickman.
Oh yeah, and it actually acknowledges black people on an equal role level.
What's not to love about Die hard?
- spidey
Oh yeah, and Bale is a fine actor, but the Terminator series feels like a sinking ship. Especially without Cameron at the helm.
- spidey
Interesting, since Spade was considered the start of the more
realistic detective, an average joe compared to the drawing room
intellectual that defined the genre previously. A Detective who
got by more on wits and guts than pure analysis. Like McClane.
Dick Tracy was a comic strip, with gadgets and monsters -
hardboiled detectives have little in common with that.
Die hard has become my favorite christmas movie,
Holy Shit! People always laugh when I say that, but I'm always totally serious! Its the best xmas movie out there, followed only by this overlooked gem:
It's why Sam Spade and John Mcclane stick out. They're both characters that evolved the detective hero.
- spidey
I can't believe you just listed First Blood as superior to Die Hard.
Basically, as Spidey touches on, the character of McClane introduced a new level of 'ordinary guy in extraordinary situation' to the blockbuster action movie. I recall the first time I watched it and the scene where he pulls glass out of his feet was a moment of thrown in realism unexpected back then. Not to mention McClane's constant moaning about having to fight.
I'm recalling from memory but I seem to remember that after initially not even wanting Willis for the part Fox then didn't include his face on the posters - believing that action fans wouldn't flock to an action film starring a comedy actor.
Willis is perfect in the role, Rickman excels in his role and its combination of humour and violence have rarely been bettered. It also has a good natured charm to it missing from many similar movies.
I'm sure I could justify it better but I'm still waking up at work. Anyway, to me it's one of the real highpoints in eighties High Concept cinema and part of the trinity along with Predator and Robocop that still loom large over action films made today.
Don't you got any Christmas music?
This IS Christmas music.
b/w
Come out to the coast, we'll get together, have a few laughs
hahah !!! fuck yeah !!
but really the scene in t2 when arnold destroys all the cop cars without hurting anyone .... that's some next level shit right there
- spidey
Liquid Man and its CGI inluence > the whole Die Hard Genre.
Terminator Nike Vandal Cameo > The whole Die Hard Genre.
And T3's Planet Of The Apes-like ending > The whole Die Hard series.
Terminator was a/is cult classic that got pimped out by Hollywood. Its was a dirty B movie when it came out.
It was refereshing for its time. Dark/Apocalyptic w/out showing it, really.
Reagan Era reflection of Male ego shit.
Liquid man, eh. Die hard didn't need futuristic CG. If anything it set precedence for alot of the impending CG that was going to flood the market.
Nikes, eh.
You got through all of T3? Congrats, was a snoozefest.
It still feels like a shitty B movie. Sorry homie.
- spidey
first off:
no doubt.
and here's some shit no one's said that I actually beleive so I'ma say it: T2 sucked. T2 had some dope special effects but the plot was nowhere near as interesting as T1. and Sarah Conner's weepy post-apocalyptic visions were weak. and furlong was weak. I much prefer T1.
Escape from NY, Die Hards 1&2 and Predator all son the entire Terminator franchise anway.
^^^^ now you're just changing the subject. ESC from NY is a classic and stands up both to the best Sci-Fi and the best action flicks. I don't even count Esc from LA. Esc from NY is to Esc from LA as Caddyshack is to Caddyshack II. they have nothing to do with each other.
I stand by my statement: Escape From NY sons the entire Terminator franchise anway.
Ur absolutely correct. I own Escape from NY on DVD - Deluxe.
I just wanted to bring up LA to show that it was pimped out like the other joints discussed.
T2 has many great moments but also represents another step in Cameron's transition as a director from hard as fuck to soft batch. Aliens, despite it's brilliance, started the trend with Newt. The Abyss switched halfway through into a sentimental hotch potch of cgi. Then came T2 with it's mixture of brilliant action scenes and not brilliant furlong. True Lies came next with it's self indulgent nonsensical love in and next thing you know in 13 years you've gone from an android punching a hole through someone's chest to irish jigs and celine dion.