No reason at all to doubt that. BOth albums say they were recorded in Frankfurt
does this have influence on the distribution situation? i mean, i doubt that there are og copies collecting dust in some German 2nd hand shops, but is there a chance that this was distributed beyond the US? Sorry if I ask for known things, but I have yet to pick the reissue up and haven't seen liner notes yet. I was def. feeling kon and amirs 7inch issue of popcorn santana, that was a dope move, thanks for that!
If it's not readily apparent, the East of Underground record, like many Army-sponsored recordings, were used almost solely as recruiting tools. The Army was not trying to break into the record business. If a 17-year-old kid walked into the Army recruiting office in 1971, the recruiting officer could hand him the record and say something to the effect of, "See, the Army is not all about shooting guns in the jungle, you can be in a band too." This means of distribution also explains why the LP, when found, has been located all over the US, not just concentrated in one area. It also makes sense that the two winners of the stage band contest were a black and a white band, a measure taken to prevent alienation of either race as the Army was trying to simply procure bodies for service.
As far as the tracking of the band goes, you'd be surprised at how scant the info is that the Army keeps on soldiers once they have left the service. Which seems to speak not only to the care of veterans in 1971, but these days as well.
Believe me, many have tried and gone the extra distance to try and posit this record as the work of INDIVIDUALS, but to no avail.
And another obvious point that seems to be missed: The record was recorded live.
And Rich's observation about how no copies have come for sale on eBay after the $1000 copy is spot on, the record is rare and I stick by the 10-15 copies estimate.
And another obvious point that seems to be missed: The record was recorded live.
Not so obvious Dante: that's not said explicitly anywhere in the liner notes of the resissue. The Black Seeds/Sound Trek album doesn't state that either. The liners off the EoU suggest the album was recorded in studio, not in concert.
The Black Seeds/Sound Trek album sounds like there's an audience in the background but I was thinking it was piped in rather than "in concert" (then again, the latter would explain the shitty sound). There's no audience noise, whatsoever, with the East of Underground which makes the idea that it was recorded in concert rather implausible.
No reason at all to doubt that. BOth albums say they were recorded in Frankfurt
does this have influence on the distribution situation? i mean, i doubt that there are og copies collecting dust in some German 2nd hand shops, but is there a chance that this was distributed beyond the US? Sorry if I ask for known things, but I have yet to pick the reissue up and haven't seen liner notes yet. I was def. feeling kon and amirs 7inch issue of popcorn santana, that was a dope move, thanks for that!
These were not commercial albums. I think Dante is probably right: they're more like recruitment tools, or at the very least, something distributed internally rather than ever intended for the popular market.
And another obvious point that seems to be missed: The record was recorded live.
Not so obvious Dante: that's not said explicitly anywhere in the liner notes of the resissue. The Black Seeds/Sound Trek album doesn't state that either. The liners off the EoU suggest the album was recorded in studio, not in concert.
The Black Seeds/Sound Trek album sounds like there's an audience in the background but I was thinking it was piped in rather than "in concert" (then again, the latter would explain the shitty sound). There's no audience noise, whatsoever, with the East of Underground which makes the idea that it was recorded in concert rather implausible.
I've always assumed the Black Seeds/Sound Trek LP was recorded live.
If it's not readily apparent, the East of Underground record, like many Army-sponsored recordings, were used almost solely as recruiting tools. The Army was not trying to break into the record business. If a 17-year-old kid walked into the Army recruiting office in 1971, the recruiting officer could hand him the record and say something to the effect of, "See, the Army is not all about shooting guns in the jungle, you can be in a band too." This means of distribution also explains why the LP, when found, has been located all over the US, not just concentrated in one area. It also makes sense that the two winners of the stage band contest were a black and a white band, a measure taken to prevent alienation of either race as the Army was trying to simply procure bodies for service.
As far as the tracking of the band goes, you'd be surprised at how scant the info is that the Army keeps on soldiers once they have left the service. Which seems to speak not only to the care of veterans in 1971, but these days as well.
This all makes a whole lot of sense. I still am surprised at how little info the Army keeps on veterans, but I can believe it given the treatment of Vietnam vets.
In terms of East of Underground being recorded live, I can believe it, especially given the quality of the recording and what the venue might have been (the photos make the venue look large, almost like a plane hangar). That said, it's definately not 100% clear on the reissue.
What really struck me today is that there could be a homeless Vietnam vet asking for change down the street who was in the band, and none of us would have any idea, and they would never really know about the record being reissued. Or there could be kids who never knew their father recorded an album because who knows where the EoU guys were deployed after Germany - some of them might have been killed in Vietnam. Definately highlights the tragedy of war and the fact that those we send to war are capable of much more than firing a weapon.
In terms of East of Underground being recorded live, I can believe it, especially given the quality of the recording and what the venue might have been (the photos make the venue look large, almost like a plane hangar). That said, it's definately not 100% clear on the reissue.
It's not remotely clear. It doesn't state, anywhere, that this was recorded live or in concert. It does state it was recorded in a studio, though of course, what a "studio" constitutes is up in the air. However, there's no audience noise whatsoever on the recording which would seem strange if it was recorded "live".
And the audience noise on the Black Seeds album always sounded fake to me, like they added it later. I could be wrong though. The liners do NOT state it was recorded in concert or live.
And another obvious point that seems to be missed: The record was recorded live.
Not so obvious Dante: that's not said explicitly anywhere in the liner notes of the resissue.
After spending seven or more years with the record, it seems plain to me that the sounds heard on the EofU LP were most likely recorded at the same venue that is shown in the photos within the original gatefold. They probably held the contest, decided the winners, and the bands stayed after the crowd had dispersed (or came back the next day) to commence recording. This was a very common occurance in situations such as these. I've only heard the Black Seeds a few times, and the recordists there might have very well been a different operation. I mean, this whole music thing wasn't that high of a priority for the Army in the midst of a war in Southeast Asia, so sound quality control can be mildly excused.
10-15 known by record collectors makes sense, as I wouldn't think that most collectors are even remotely looking in the right places for this record. The only way they are going to come up is probably through extremely random yard sales, weird slavation army / swap meet locations or else buried in some military storage facility in the middle of nowhere. I can't imagine the army not producing a pretty decent number of the records. Has anyone researched the distribution chain through the military for the music they produced in general? Jsut thinking that it would give a better idea of where they were pushed mainly, what their lifespan as a promotional tool was, and finally what they did with them after they were done with it.
And another obvious point that seems to be missed: The record was recorded live.
Not so obvious Dante: that's not said explicitly anywhere in the liner notes of the resissue.
After spending seven or more years with the record, it seems plain to me that the sounds heard on the EofU LP were most likely recorded at the same venue that is shown in the photos within the original gatefold. They probably held the contest, decided the winners, and the bands stayed after the crowd had dispersed (or came back the next day) to commence recording. This was a very common occurance in situations such as these. I've only heard the Black Seeds a few times, and the recordists there might have very well been a different operation. I mean, this whole music thing wasn't that high of a priority for the Army in the midst of a war in Southeast Asia, so sound quality control can be mildly excused.
I didn't think the sound quality on EoU was bad at all. In fact, if it was recorded in an aircraft hangar, the quality is pretty amazing. The Black Seeds wasn't unlistenable, it's just that the drop-off in quality is pretty notable and hence part of my curiosity over what happened in the intervening year.
As for it being recorded live, my point was that there's nothing that would indicate this in the packaging of the reissue but I defer to your expertise. Keep in mind: most of us haven't had seven years with the record to suss these things out intuitively!
And the audience noise on the Black Seeds album always sounded fake to me, like they added it later. I could be wrong though. The liners do NOT state it was recorded in concert or live.
that audience noise on the Black Seeds album IS fake... i'd have to pull out my copy and listen to it again for the 1st time in probably almost 10 years (which i'm not gonna do), but seems like i remember some parts where the crowd noise comes in reeeal loud then just quickly fades away to no crowd noise at all. pretty much the same way all of those fake albums with the piped in crowd noise sound.
And the audience noise on the Black Seeds album always sounded fake to me, like they added it later. I could be wrong though. The liners do NOT state it was recorded in concert or live.
that audience noise on the Black Seeds album IS fake... i'd have to pull out my copy and listen to it again for the 1st time in probably almost 10 years (which i'm not gonna do), but seems like i remember some parts where the crowd noise comes in reeeal loud then just quickly fades away to no crowd noise at all. pretty much the same way all of those fake albums with the piped in crowd noise sound.
the break part on the mac truque's "cold sweat" comes to mind...
what is with adding fake crowd noise? i dont get why this was an advantage. do "live" records really sell better or something?
what is with adding fake crowd noise? i dont get why this was an advantage. do "live" records really sell better or something?
In this case, while trying to lure some musically talented kid into the armed forces, having a big crowd cheering may have been a plus.
"Kid, just listen to that crowd, it's like being a rock star.....with guns"
a, good point. it has a purpose here, but i dont get why bands recorded studio albums and put horrible fake crowd noise that, in my opinion, detracts from the actual recording. especially somebody like the mac truque that, to my knowledge, only put out one lp, so it wasnt like "heres our LIVE record now!" or something....
but this is getting off topic i suppose.
heres my question, i know its not QUITE the same situation...at all, but why is port authority sooo plentiful? ive had at least 4 copies at once at points in my life...
what is with adding fake crowd noise? i dont get why this was an advantage. do "live" records really sell better or something?
In this case, while trying to lure some musically talented kid into the armed forces, having a big crowd cheering may have been a plus.
"Kid, just listen to that crowd, it's like being a rock star.....with guns"
a, good point. it has a purpose here, but i dont get why bands recorded studio albums and put horrible fake crowd noise that, in my opinion, detracts from the actual recording. especially somebody like the mac truque that, to my knowledge, only put out one lp, so it wasnt like "heres our LIVE record now!" or something....
but this is getting off topic i suppose.
heres my question, i know its not QUITE the same situation...at all, but why is port authority sooo plentiful? ive had at least 4 copies at once at points in my life...
I think Port Authority was a "touring" band that played High Schools and Colleges also trying to recruit......I always assumed they gave those records out at said shows.
Grabbed a copy yesterday at Newburys. Kudos to all involved. The live recording is a semi-surprise to me but makes sense. Stupid question: What's the red circle logo on the cover stand for?
Also, are there posters? Aside from simply wanting one I think that would be an effective way to turn up some of the players. I mean, if you see a poster of this cover in an indie record store window it would kinda jump out at you, no?
Grabbed a copy yesterday at Newburys. Kudos to all involved. The live recording is a semi-surprise to me but makes sense. Stupid question: What's the red circle logo on the cover stand for?
Now who has a copy of the Black Seeds to trade me?
i have one but not to trade, only to sell. I don't need any more records- I already have them all. if you're a , hit me with an offer that'll make me lose consciousness. when i wake back up we'll seal the deal
Now who has a copy of the Black Seeds to trade me?
i have one but not to trade, only to sell. I don't need any more records- I already have them all. if you're a , hit me with an offer that'll make me lose consciousness. when i wake back up we'll seal the deal
I think he was planning to trade you for the ass in Lumin's avitar.
Now who has a copy of the Black Seeds to trade me?
i have one but not to trade, only to sell. I don't need any more records- I already have them all. if you're a , hit me with an offer that'll make me lose consciousness. when i wake back up we'll seal the deal
I don't even know what the Black Seeds LP goes for.
what is with adding fake crowd noise? i dont get why this was an advantage. do "live" records really sell better or something?
In this case, while trying to lure some musically talented kid into the armed forces, having a big crowd cheering may have been a plus.
"Kid, just listen to that crowd, it's like being a rock star.....with guns"
a, good point. it has a purpose here, but i dont get why bands recorded studio albums and put horrible fake crowd noise that, in my opinion, detracts from the actual recording. especially somebody like the mac truque that, to my knowledge, only put out one lp, so it wasnt like "heres our LIVE record now!" or something....
but this is getting off topic i suppose.
heres my question, i know its not QUITE the same situation...at all, but why is port authority sooo plentiful? ive had at least 4 copies at once at points in my life...
I think Port Authority was a "touring" band that played High Schools and Colleges also trying to recruit......I always assumed they gave those records out at said shows.
i think those kind of crowd noises, in some cases, can be from mics actually pointed at the crowd, that the sound technician mutes during the actual tracks.
Newsflash: The guitarist from East of Underground has surfaced and has reached out to Wax Poetics. Details to follow.
It seems all is well that ends well. Here is the e-mail that the magazine received:
I would love to talk to you about East of Underground. I have no idea who Lou Perry is but he was never in the group. I was the lead guitar player from start to finish. My only guess is maybe he was the guitar player of the group Soap that we tied in the contest or maybe just a typical army screw up. I did go by "Lew" but not "Lou" and I was a SP5. I can probably give you enough history with detail to convince you I was the lead guitar player. I believe I still have the Stars and Stripes article about the competition and I am listed in that correctly. The other names all sound correct.
We were formed out of a Special Services Club in Augsburg Germany next to the artillery unit where some of the others and I were stationed. We were formed specifically to compete in the entertainment contest and to play in service clubs in Germany. The Special Services Director was a German named Hal. I was originally put in another group before joining East of Underground and I knew immediately it was going to be special. As soon as I heard the three singers I was blown away. The drummer claimed to have once played in James Brown's band and no one ever questioned it because he played so well it was believable. I played lead guitar on a Framus electric solid body on all but the Santana song which Gus had previously worked up as his own.
I received a reel to reel copy of the studio work when we got back to Augsburg but I'm not sure where it is but I'm sure I still have it somewhere. I had no idea the album was ever released even though they told us it would be released. I don't think I ever really believed it would be.
To set the record straight...we tied the group Soap for first place but a coin toss gave Soap the "winner's" tour and we got the "second place" tour. We were pretty mad at that point and there was some discussion in the group about not even doing the tour but in the end we did it.
Bobby Blackmon had a lisp and on going tonsil problems but he didn't want them taken out for fear of changing his voice. I can't remember if it was Larry or Austin that actually had an afro just like the one on the cover. He got away with it by compacting it enough to fit under his army cap. A colonel at the competition asked about his hair and Hal told him it was a wig and he believed it.
Before the competition Hal had arranged for us to go to a facility that stored wardrobe and allowed us to pick out some pretty outrageous costumes to wear at the competition. A big part of East of Underground was the stage presence that Bobby, Larry and Austin delivered. Fantastic showmen that knew how to get a crowd in to the music and the costumes only added to that presence.
We were from all corners of the country. LA, St Louis, Atlanta....and me...a white guy from a small town in Mississippi that had mostly played Beatle music. I tried to be a good ambassador for Mississippi but found it easier just to say I was from New Orleans where I had spent a good deal of time. We worked well together despite our varied backgrounds. Gus was the only other non African American and he was Hispanic...I think he was from New Mexico.
It has been fun thinking about those times and I hope I told you something of interest. I have enjoyed listening to the samples of the songs and have ordered the CD and the LP. I actually ordered them before I realized what was going on. I can't believe all the kind things that are being said and I thank you guys for re-releasing it. I had tears in my eyes as I was reading about the release and the reviews... it looks like some of the songs are getting air play. All of this has flooded me with memories that I cherish to this day.
Comments
does this have influence on the distribution situation? i mean, i doubt that there are og copies collecting dust in some German 2nd hand shops, but is there a chance that this was distributed beyond the US? Sorry if I ask for known things, but I have yet to pick the reissue up and haven't seen liner notes yet. I was def. feeling kon and amirs 7inch issue of popcorn santana, that was a dope move, thanks for that!
As far as the tracking of the band goes, you'd be surprised at how scant the info is that the Army keeps on soldiers once they have left the service. Which seems to speak not only to the care of veterans in 1971, but these days as well.
Believe me, many have tried and gone the extra distance to try and posit this record as the work of INDIVIDUALS, but to no avail.
And another obvious point that seems to be missed: The record was recorded live.
And Rich's observation about how no copies have come for sale on eBay after the $1000 copy is spot on, the record is rare and I stick by the 10-15 copies estimate.
Not so obvious Dante: that's not said explicitly anywhere in the liner notes of the resissue. The Black Seeds/Sound Trek album doesn't state that either. The liners off the EoU suggest the album was recorded in studio, not in concert.
The Black Seeds/Sound Trek album sounds like there's an audience in the background but I was thinking it was piped in rather than "in concert" (then again, the latter would explain the shitty sound). There's no audience noise, whatsoever, with the East of Underground which makes the idea that it was recorded in concert rather implausible.
These were not commercial albums. I think Dante is probably right: they're more like recruitment tools, or at the very least, something distributed internally rather than ever intended for the popular market.
http://o-dub.com/sounds/soulsides/blackseeds.mp3
I've always assumed the Black Seeds/Sound Trek LP was recorded live.
This all makes a whole lot of sense. I still am surprised at how little info the Army keeps on veterans, but I can believe it given the treatment of Vietnam vets.
In terms of East of Underground being recorded live, I can believe it, especially given the quality of the recording and what the venue might have been (the photos make the venue look large, almost like a plane hangar). That said, it's definately not 100% clear on the reissue.
What really struck me today is that there could be a homeless Vietnam vet asking for change down the street who was in the band, and none of us would have any idea, and they would never really know about the record being reissued. Or there could be kids who never knew their father recorded an album because who knows where the EoU guys were deployed after Germany - some of them might have been killed in Vietnam. Definately highlights the tragedy of war and the fact that those we send to war are capable of much more than firing a weapon.
Not of the same calibur but still great IMO.
It's not remotely clear. It doesn't state, anywhere, that this was recorded live or in concert. It does state it was recorded in a studio, though of course, what a "studio" constitutes is up in the air. However, there's no audience noise whatsoever on the recording which would seem strange if it was recorded "live".
And the audience noise on the Black Seeds album always sounded fake to me, like they added it later. I could be wrong though. The liners do NOT state it was recorded in concert or live.
After spending seven or more years with the record, it seems plain to me that the sounds heard on the EofU LP were most likely recorded at the same venue that is shown in the photos within the original gatefold. They probably held the contest, decided the winners, and the bands stayed after the crowd had dispersed (or came back the next day) to commence recording. This was a very common occurance in situations such as these. I've only heard the Black Seeds a few times, and the recordists there might have very well been a different operation. I mean, this whole music thing wasn't that high of a priority for the Army in the midst of a war in Southeast Asia, so sound quality control can be mildly excused.
I didn't think the sound quality on EoU was bad at all. In fact, if it was recorded in an aircraft hangar, the quality is pretty amazing. The Black Seeds wasn't unlistenable, it's just that the drop-off in quality is pretty notable and hence part of my curiosity over what happened in the intervening year.
As for it being recorded live, my point was that there's nothing that would indicate this in the packaging of the reissue but I defer to your expertise. Keep in mind: most of us haven't had seven years with the record to suss these things out intuitively!
that audience noise on the Black Seeds album IS fake... i'd have to pull out my copy and listen to it again for the 1st time in probably almost 10 years (which i'm not gonna do), but seems like i remember some parts where the crowd noise comes in reeeal loud then just quickly fades away to no crowd noise at all. pretty much the same way all of those fake albums with the piped in crowd noise sound.
the break part on the mac truque's "cold sweat" comes to mind...
what is with adding fake crowd noise? i dont get why this was an advantage. do "live" records really sell better or something?
In this case, while trying to lure some musically talented kid into the armed forces, having a big crowd cheering may have been a plus.
"Kid, just listen to that crowd, it's like being a rock star.....with guns"
a, good point. it has a purpose here, but i dont get why bands recorded studio albums and put horrible fake crowd noise that, in my opinion, detracts from the actual recording. especially somebody like the mac truque that, to my knowledge, only put out one lp, so it wasnt like "heres our LIVE record now!" or something....
but this is getting off topic i suppose.
heres my question, i know its not QUITE the same situation...at all, but why is port authority sooo plentiful? ive had at least 4 copies at once at points in my life...
I think Port Authority was a "touring" band that played High Schools and Colleges also trying to recruit......I always assumed they gave those records out at said shows.
The live recording is a semi-surprise to me but makes sense.
Stupid question: What's the red circle logo on the cover stand for?
Also, are there posters?
Aside from simply wanting one I think that would be an effective way to turn up some of the players. I mean, if you see a poster of this cover in an indie record store window it would kinda jump out at you, no?
London "tube".
i have one but not to trade, only to sell. I don't need any more records- I already have them all. if you're a
I think he was planning to trade you for the ass in Lumin's avitar.
I don't even know what the Black Seeds LP goes for.
Newsflash: The guitarist from East of Underground has surfaced and has reached out to Wax Poetics. Details to follow.
OH SHIT. That's the best part about you guys doing the reissue is finding out the story. I can't wait to hear more...
i think those kind of crowd noises, in some cases, can be from mics actually pointed at the crowd, that the sound technician mutes during the actual tracks.
It seems all is well that ends well.
Here is the e-mail that the magazine received:
I would love to talk to you about East of Underground. I have no idea
who Lou Perry is but he was never in the group. I was the lead guitar
player from start to finish. My only guess is maybe he was the guitar
player of the group Soap that we tied in the contest or maybe just a
typical army screw up. I did go by "Lew" but not "Lou" and I was a
SP5. I can probably give you enough history with detail to convince
you I was the lead guitar player. I believe I still have the Stars and
Stripes article about the competition and I am listed in that
correctly. The other names all sound correct.
We were formed out of a Special Services Club in Augsburg Germany next
to the artillery unit where some of the others and I were stationed.
We were formed specifically to compete in the entertainment contest
and to play in service clubs in Germany. The Special Services Director
was a German named Hal. I was originally put in another group before
joining East of Underground and I knew immediately it was going to be
special. As soon as I heard the three singers I was blown away. The
drummer claimed to have once played in James Brown's band and no one
ever questioned it because he played so well it was believable. I
played lead guitar on a Framus electric solid body on all but the
Santana song which Gus had previously worked up as his own.
I received a reel to reel copy of the studio work when we got back to
Augsburg but I'm not sure where it is but I'm sure I still have it
somewhere. I had no idea the album was ever released even though they
told us it would be released. I don't think I ever really believed it
would be.
To set the record straight...we tied the group Soap for first place
but a coin toss gave Soap the "winner's" tour and we got the "second
place" tour. We were pretty mad at that point and there was some
discussion in the group about not even doing the tour but in the end
we did it.
Bobby Blackmon had a lisp and on going tonsil problems but he didn't
want them taken out for fear of changing his voice. I can't remember
if it was Larry or Austin that actually had an afro just like the one
on the cover. He got away with it by compacting it enough to fit under
his army cap. A colonel at the competition asked about his hair and
Hal told him it was a wig and he believed it.
Before the competition Hal had arranged for us to go to a facility
that stored wardrobe and allowed us to pick out some pretty outrageous
costumes to wear at the competition. A big part of East of Underground
was the stage presence that Bobby, Larry and Austin delivered.
Fantastic showmen that knew how to get a crowd in to the music and the
costumes only added to that presence.
We were from all corners of the country. LA, St Louis, Atlanta....and
me...a white guy from a small town in Mississippi that had mostly
played Beatle music. I tried to be a good ambassador for Mississippi
but found it easier just to say I was from New Orleans where I had
spent a good deal of time. We worked well together despite our varied
backgrounds. Gus was the only other non African American and he was
Hispanic...I think he was from New Mexico.
It has been fun thinking about those times and I hope I told you
something of interest. I have enjoyed listening to the samples of the songs and
have ordered the CD and the LP. I actually ordered them before I
realized what was going on. I can't believe all the kind things that
are being said and I thank you guys for re-releasing it. I had tears
in my eyes as I was reading about the release and the reviews... it
looks like some of the songs are getting air play. All of this has
flooded me with memories that I cherish to this day.