ULTRAMAGNETIC DRUMS ID
Hawkeye
896 Posts
I tryed to identify the drums of "Feelin'It" by the Ultras, but all clues from The Breaks.com seems wrong to me.So I know someone of you can help me !!!!http://www.zshare.net/audio/34120601d45600/PeaceHawkeye
Comments
Its Probably on the UBBs, as a lot on Critical Beatdown, but I dont know any UBB.
So what sampelsource is this ???
Peace
Hawkeye
I thought it actually was this, about 4 and a half minutes in, chopped:
Santamaria, Mongo
Soul Bag: (Columbia 1968)
* "Cold Sweat"
Ultramagnetic MCs - "Feelin' It"
what do you think now that mint gave you the mp3?
I still doubt that this is the used break.
I cant here any similarity in sound, and Paul C was a mixing king but funky drummer still sounds like funky drummer.
Than I checked the pattern, I found one snare with a hihat and one ghost snare after it, and I can understand why someone could think that this must be the break. Specialy beacuse there is the cymbal sound on top too.
But it still got a diffrent sound.
I pitched the stuff down, I layered it on top of the Ultra loop, and the stuff is not the same.
These drums sound diffrent to the Ultra drums.
Mongo is definatley not the break used.
And the James Brown drums are also not the ones Ultra used. I know the "Give It Up Or Turn It Loose" break, no In The Jungle drums here.
If no one on this board knows this, it must be a very uber rare mistery break !!!!
It seems I have to
Peace
Hawkeye
Live long and prosper
Hawkeye
Even if you isolated the left or right channel, both have the congas layered over it, and the break is simply bass and snare, or at least *bass stab* and a snare stab with a slight accent to it, with little to no high hat (or at least the hi-hat is minimal, whereas in "Funky Drummer" the high hat is prominent, so chopping it and giving it that sound, circa 1987, was not impossible but would have been too complicated, making it sound unnatural. Not that sampling in 8k was realistic, but one had to deal with the technology at the time, when sampling anything more than 5 seconds meant high finance.
I just wanted to make the point clear that Paul C was more of a king when it came to chopping the starting points of bassdrums and snares extremly correct, thats the reason why his drums flowed so dope.
But all the drums he touched still had the sound they had before.
"Give the drummer some" is well choped, but it still sounds like the original source.
Diffrent pattern, same sound.
And thats my problem with the Mongo break.
Its not the correct sound.
Shit, I'm so curoius about these drums !!!!!
The funny thing is, any of us who have been producing or at least making beats know about various tricks, and it's later on when you read an interview and read that Paul C. did it, you think "oh cool, he did it too". I only mention this because it would depend on the original source of the drums, whether it came from a stereo source, or if it was pulled from a left or right channel of a song, which would in turn make certain things sound different by default (i.e. we may be used to hearing ambience in a stereo track, but if the drums were isolated to the left, you're not going to get that).
Plus, that style of isolated chopping lead to everyone else doing the same, it didn't have to be four or eight bars and loop it, you could ideally do what people had done in electronic music and manipulate a song from one point of the tape and move it elsewhere, or make copies of it and drop it in certain key spots. But electronically, or by punching it in manually.
I'm surprised no one has spotted it, I always assumed it was one of those classic beats that have been defined by now. Watch it be Art Blakey or something.
Almost. Almost every bass drum moment in the song either has hi-hat or the reverb of what came before, such as the band vamping, and isolating either channel doesn't help either.
hmmmmm... could be...
No, the break in "Cold Sweat" has the cymbals playing throughout, and the right channel is just JB's voice and the drums in the distance.
Two things have to be the same, pattern and sound.
The pattern you can change, the sound not.
Only way you can change a drum sound is by heavily using EQs or layering sounds on top.
On the ultra drums it seems there is only a small shaker sound layered on top to make it longer one quarter than it is originaly.
There are no other sounds in it, so no further layering was done here.
EQ wise the ultra drums are not heavily tweacked. The total converting or transforming of a drum sound by EQ just works with single sounds, but we have here 4 sounds.
Snare
Hihat
Ghost-Snare
Cymbal
While it could be possible that snare, ghostsnare and hihat are tweaked heavily with a EQ the ever same sounding cymbal on top of these sounds tells me the oposite.
If these 3 sounds were tweaked the sound of the cymbal would have changed too and we would hear 3 diffrent cymbal sounds.
And no, it is def not a pattern build out of 4 diffrent sounds.
With one cymbal put on top of 3 tweaked sounds.
It sounds to homogeneous what I hear, and the tape hiss on top of the sample which always stops when the last ghost snare was played tells me that this is one part of a drumbreak.
We def have a mistery break here.
Peace
Hawkeye
only the most serious guys are up to solving this mistery.
http://www.zshare.net/audio/3457736ef7a2b6/
I just re-checked all the entrys you guys did. No one of the named breaks is the right one.
Yes I can understand why it could be James Browns Cold Sweat, there is even a trumpet stab like in the Ultra song, but it is not the right trumpet tone, and the sound of the snare is not right either.
The James Brown Soulpride drums also got ghostsnares and cymbals, but still it is not the right snare sound.
I picthed the drums, I chopped the drums, I tweaked them a little bit with EQ and I brought them all into one row.
Now listen to this file it goes like this:
Ultra
Mongo Cold Sweat
Ultra
Mongo Cold Sweat
Ultra
James Brown Cold Sweat
Ultra
James Brown Cold Sweat
Ultra
James Soulpride
Ultra
James Soulpride
Check for the snare sounds. And listen real closely. Those snares are all diffrent. Not one snare is like the other.
So the Ultra snare cant be from these 3 breaks
ULTRA - MONGO- JAMES - JAMES BREAKS
Peace
Hawkeye
In other words, listen to Digable Planets' "9th Wonder".
I doubt that.
OK, if Ced Gee or Paul C had speed up the sample to 45 rpm + 8%, put it into a SP, pitched it down, you would def here a physical effect called aliasing. These are artificial sounds which can be described as metal sounding. I cant here any aliasing effects on that Ultra snare sample.
And I wouldnt understand the need for speeding up the sample. It's around 0.625 miliseconds long, its shorter than a second, thats the normal length of a snare for a SP 1200 and even a SP 12 with shorter sample memory.
To speed up longer samples makes sense, but not these short sounds.
And even if the snare was speed up that much, it wouldnt have that much of an effect to the snare sound. Those 3 diffrent snares are sounding WAY TO much diffrent.
I'll stop that here now.
I'll come back when I got the original.
Peace
Hawkeye
Its usual practise to speed up all samples when using an SP1200 or SP12, having owned both in the past and being very familiar with the sounds they output I would lean towards the theory that I put forward.
Another thing to bear in mind is unless you are using either of those machines on the samples you are never going to recreate the same "sound" due to the chips that they use. Dropping the sample rate does not have the same effect.
I appreciate what you did there ^^