HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
The truth from where I sit is that in the past 4 years Wayne has 1. simplified and at the same time tightened his flow and 2. done a mighty good job of catering/bending his Southerness to fit the mold of NYC sensibilities. And again, while neither are moves to be criticized, especially considering all of the respect and success it has brought him, they aren't things that should warrant his ascent to "best rapper alive" status.
Which begs the question, what should I (or anyone else) be listening to, so that I may be able to reconsider my view of his music? Inform.
I dunno...the entire cannon of Southern rap history???
Whatever that means...
I'm not sure you can call what Lil Wayne makes "music".
Unlike my "case and point" the other day, that one was just a typo.
And please, you salty aging boom-bappers are pathetic personified.
OK, fair enough. "Fairly predictable" is kinda subjective, though, and I wouldn't know how much evidence there is that SFJ had completely dismissed him in the past. Again, I know I'm speculating out of necessity here, but wouldn't it be fairly true to say NYC wasn't really checking for that many Southern rappers generally until about seven or eight years ago anyway? In which case, he's probably not much more guilty of being late to the party than any number of NY-based journalists.
1. 7 of 8 years ago would have been a perfect time to start checking for Wayne.
2. Yes, NYC not onlt slept on shit but decided to insult it as well. Therefore they should now have to answer for being how-ever-many-years behind the curve.
3. And being late to the party is one thing, but being late and then once you finally show up going off the deep end is a whole 'nother. It's really quite laughable how NYC-ers want to now define Southern rap when so many are so clearly not up on it. The way I see it, any given 17 year old on ScrewShop.com could school the fuck out of SFJ, Kelefa Sennah, Jon Caramanica, Joey Patel, etc. in a heartbeat.
Shied, you're capable of making good points--why must you always swaddle them in so much ass-hurt?
you salty aging boom-bappers are pathetic personified.
you may consider him late to the southern party, but at least SFJ writing doesn't have that 'things were so much better back in the conscious days of 1991' undertone...
---
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
you salty aging boom-bappers are pathetic personified.
you may consider him late to the southern party, but at least SFJ writing doesn't have that 'things were so much better back in the conscious days of 1991' undertone...
Do you see a fate for Lil Wayne albums other than future Disc-Go-Round residents?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
25 years old = aging boom-bapper?
Do you see a fate for Lil Wayne albums other than future Disc-Go-Round residents?
Boom bap's been dead for what...about 10 years now?
I love all of that old classic music as much as anyone, but its creativity and reach on anyone but Johnny-Come-Lately's has been miniscule since what...Moment of Truth? And even that was kinda on the boring side.
you salty aging boom-bappers are pathetic personified.
you may consider him late to the southern party, but at least SFJ writing doesn't have that 'things were so much better back in the conscious days of 1991' undertone...
---
SFJ was responsible for what I consider to be the first serious piece ever written about Timbaland.
I've been into eccentric sounds for many years, I've never shied away from my admiration for the weird.
then check it out that said, 'weird' is a pretty wide spectrum of interesting to shitty. dragging a prolapsed walrus anus across a washboard is 'weird' but that doesn't mean i want to listen to it.
Or maybe you should listen to some Lil Boosie and slap yourself everytime you think he's any less talented or creative than the "Slugs and Blueprints of the world".
I don't know, I was just looking for a song title or two, not an analysis of someone's alleged lack of taste. If anyone wants to answer seriously, PM me with a few titles.
I've been into eccentric sounds for many years, I've never shied away from my admiration for the weird.
then check it out
that said, 'weird' is a pretty wide spectrum of interesting to shitty. dragging a prolapsed walrus anus across a washboard is 'weird' but that doesn't mean i want to listen to it.
"unless it was produced by dilla" -soulstrut
I agree with you, and even saying "I enjoy hearing something from the norm" will bring up a response as "so what don't you like about the norm?", which (I think) isn't the point of this thread.
I'll check it out.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Or maybe you should listen to some Lil Boosie and slap yourself everytime you think he's any less talented or creative than the "Slugs and Blueprints of the world".
I don't know, I was just looking for a song title or two, not an analysis of someone's alleged lack of taste. If anyone wants to answer seriously, PM me with a few titles.
I already mentioned "Clear the Set" by the Hot Boys off of their Guerilla Warfare album. Start there, and listen to the whole album while you're at it, most notably "Ridin" and "Get Out the Way".
I already mentioned "Clear the Set" by the Hot Boys off of their Guerilla Warfare album. Start there, and listen to the whole album while you're at it, most notably "Ridin" and "Get Out the Way".
I'll do that in a bit. Thanks.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I already mentioned "Clear the Set" by the Hot Boys off of their Guerilla Warfare album. Start there, and listen to the whole album while you're at it, most notably "Ridin" and "Get Out the Way".
I'll do that in a bit. Thanks.
I've been knowing that you're a good dude, John. Sorry about giving you static about your taste in rap. We apparently just don't see eye to eye on certain things. Saul good though...way to kill me with kindness.
Robert NYC of 2007 is VERY different from the NYC of 10 years ago (and mostly populated by people NOT from NYC)
You're conflating "aging boom bap heads" (read: guys who liked AZ in 1995 and grew up in or around NYC) with the current "hipsteur/blog/fader/ironicdipsetfan" camp (read: guys who are mostly too young to remember AZ in 1995 and moved to the city from elsewhere in the last 5 years).
It's an important distinction to make - I don't think the two have the same take on Southern rap (or Wayne in particular) at all.
You're conflating "aging boom bap heads" (read: guys who liked AZ in 1995 and grew up in or around NYC) with the current "hipsteur/blog/fader/ironicdipsetfan" camp (read: guys who are mostly too young to remember AZ in 1995 and moved to the city from elsewhere in the last 5 years).
It's an important distinction to make - I don't think the two have the same take on Southern rap (or Wayne in particular) at all.
taste lines up pretty well w/ a lot of people on this site, probably
"Fall Out Boy"
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Robert NYC of 2007 is VERY different from the NYC of 10 years ago (and mostly populated by people NOT from NYC)
You're conflating "aging boom bap heads" (read: guys who liked AZ in 1995 and grew up in or around NYC) with the current "hipsteur/blog/fader/ironicdipsetfan" camp (read: guys who are mostly too young to remember AZ in 1995 and moved to the city from elsewhere in the last 5 years).
It's an important distinction to make - I don't think the two have the same take on Southern rap (or Wayne in particular) at all.
Okay, fair enough. I will try to consider that next time I go on a tirade against all-things NYC.
Robert NYC of 2007 is VERY different from the NYC of 10 years ago (and mostly populated by people NOT from NYC)
You're conflating "aging boom bap heads" (read: guys who liked AZ in 1995 and grew up in or around NYC) with the current "hipsteur/blog/fader/ironicdipsetfan" camp (read: guys who are mostly too young to remember AZ in 1995 and moved to the city from elsewhere in the last 5 years).
It's an important distinction to make - I don't think the two have the same take on Southern rap (or Wayne in particular) at all.
Okay, fair enough. I will try to consider that next time I go on a tirade against all-things NYC.
Right - I'm not saying don't hatt, but please make the distinction. As an aging boom-bap head, who has a certain appreciation for dipset and a huge appreciation for southern rap (z.ro included)... it needs to be said.
Robert NYC of 2007 is VERY different from the NYC of 10 years ago (and mostly populated by people NOT from NYC)
You're conflating "aging boom bap heads" (read: guys who liked AZ in 1995 and grew up in or around NYC) with the current "hipsteur/blog/fader/ironicdipsetfan" camp (read: guys who are mostly too young to remember AZ in 1995 and moved to the city from elsewhere in the last 5 years).
It's an important distinction to make - I don't think the two have the same take on Southern rap (or Wayne in particular) at all.
Okay, fair enough. I will try to consider that next time I go on a tirade against all-things NYC.
Shied, are you actually going to back down from this reverse carpet-baggeur!? Are you going to let yourself be schooled by a dude that chose to forsake the Bay for New York!?
Shameful.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Robert NYC of 2007 is VERY different from the NYC of 10 years ago (and mostly populated by people NOT from NYC)
You're conflating "aging boom bap heads" (read: guys who liked AZ in 1995 and grew up in or around NYC) with the current "hipsteur/blog/fader/ironicdipsetfan" camp (read: guys who are mostly too young to remember AZ in 1995 and moved to the city from elsewhere in the last 5 years).
It's an important distinction to make - I don't think the two have the same take on Southern rap (or Wayne in particular) at all.
Okay, fair enough. I will try to consider that next time I go on a tirade against all-things NYC.
Shied, are you actually going to back down from this reverse carpet-baggeur!? Are you going to let yourself be schooled by a dude that chose to forsake the Bay for New York!?
Shameful.
I dunno, I pretty much do see the difference he's talking about.
There's those who grew up with the boom-bap as the only way they knew. I can respect that.
Then there's those who are newbies who want simply want to associate themselves with what Phil calls real heads...and in trying way too hard to replicate the real heads' traditional disdain for the South, those dudes are complete assclowns who have no clue whatsoever.
We've got here in Texas as well. And I've had to learn to completely ignore them to keep from wanting to slap them one by one.
Robert NYC of 2007 is VERY different from the NYC of 10 years ago (and mostly populated by people NOT from NYC)
You're conflating "aging boom bap heads" (read: guys who liked AZ in 1995 and grew up in or around NYC) with the current "hipsteur/blog/fader/ironicdipsetfan" camp (read: guys who are mostly too young to remember AZ in 1995 and moved to the city from elsewhere in the last 5 years).
It's an important distinction to make - I don't think the two have the same take on Southern rap (or Wayne in particular) at all.
Okay, fair enough. I will try to consider that next time I go on a tirade against all-things NYC.
Shied, are you actually going to back down from this reverse carpet-baggeur!? Are you going to let yourself be schooled by a dude that chose to forsake the Bay for New York!?
Shameful.
I dunno, I pretty much do see the difference he's talking about.
There's those who grew up with the boom-bap as the only way they knew. I can respect that.
Then there's those who are newbies who want simply want to associate themselves with what Phil calls real heads...and in trying way too hard to replicate the real heads' traditional disdain for the South, those dudes are complete assclowns who have no clue whatsoever.
We've got here in Texas as well. And I've had to learn to completely ignore them to keep from wanting to slap them one by one.
Would u get aggy at me if I said Im no Wayne fan, but likes Souf rapp. And would that be a contradiction?
Then there's those who are newbies who want simply want to associate themselves with what Phil calls real heads...and in trying way too hard to replicate the real heads' traditional disdain for the South, those dudes are complete assclowns who have no clue whatsoever.
Well the newbies I am talking about LOVE the south...
But not for nothing this verse could've come out of Wayne's mouth yesterday and people would be giving it praises
It???s wayne baby, thugged out won???t change baby I do your main lady, in a blue navigaty That???s game baby, you can call me a game shooter But since I drive a bubble people call me lex luger I pull up in a expedition they be like no, nu-no, nu-nu-nu-no he didn???t
Then there's those who are newbies who want simply want to associate themselves with what Phil calls real heads...and in trying way too hard to replicate the real heads' traditional disdain for the South, those dudes are complete assclowns who have no clue whatsoever.
Well the newbies I am talking about LOVE the south...
Yeah, the kids Shied is talking about aren't really concentrated in New York. I don't know if they're really concentrated anywhere in the real world--I only encounter them en masse on the internet.
I'd say Wayne is the hottest rapper amonst the young youfs in my (New York) neighborhood right now.
I'd say Wayne is the hottest rapper amonst the young youfs in my (New York) neighborhood right now.
Hands down, same goes for Philly.
I think Harvey's making some good points in this thread, but I also think there's a marked difference between old Wayne and new Wayne that need not be broken down into regional aesthetic differences. As far as I'm concerned, technically speaking, Wayne is a lot more interesting now than he ever has been. And when I say "interesting," I'm not just talking about him being "weird" or "eccentric" in a Dipsetty way (which is a point I can totally understand). I find the "I Feel Like Dying" song to be pretty boring and not terribly listenable. It's cute and kitschy and I think it's cool that Wayne is willing to do silly weird stuff like that, but it's not a song I feel compelled to listen to. Where Wayne is most interesting to me is rhythmically and stylistically--and his earlier stuff isn't nearly as interesting in either of these fronts. Obviously, he's not chopping, but a lot of times, dude's more recent stuff sounds like he grew up listening to Fish or Volume 10 or Peace or something--all over the place tonally (but effectively), while also being damn near virtuousic with rhythm (see his "Shouldern Lean" freestyle). While I realize his style is rooted deeply with in a rich NOLA tradition of rap, I find his charm and charismatic "weirdness" has much more in common with the Project Blowed ethos than with Dipset's effortless, fun, Harlem eccentric tradition.
I'd also just like to briefly mention that there's rather obviously been a huge collective conscious shift where "Southern Rap" is a lot more "accepted" now than it was 10+ years ago. I realize Harvey is pretty ambivalent about this shift, but I also think it's a reality and mostly a GOOD THING.
I have no problem admitting that I was not checking for Cash Money records when they came out but now love a lot of it. I apologize for not being the most open minded 15-18 year old kid in the world.
After all that, quite honestly, I think "I Feel Like Dying" is a really wack reason for a lot of people to suddenly love Wayne. One that borders on
[quoteAfter all that, quite honestly, I think "I Feel Like Dying" is a really wack reason for a lot of people to suddenly love Wayne. One that borders on
Comments
Unlike my "case and point" the other day, that one was just a typo.
And please, you salty aging boom-bappers are pathetic personified.
Shied, you're capable of making good points--why must you always swaddle them in so much ass-hurt?
you may consider him late to the southern party, but at least SFJ writing doesn't have that 'things were so much better back in the conscious days of 1991' undertone...
---
Yeah, that boom-bap barb wasn't directed at SFJ.
Do you see a fate for Lil Wayne albums other than future Disc-Go-Round residents?
Boom bap's been dead for what...about 10 years now?
I love all of that old classic music as much as anyone, but its creativity and reach on anyone but Johnny-Come-Lately's has been miniscule since what...Moment of Truth? And even that was kinda on the boring side.
SFJ was responsible for what I consider to be the first serious piece ever written about Timbaland.
I've been into eccentric sounds for many years, I've never shied away from my admiration for the weird.
that said, 'weird' is a pretty wide spectrum of interesting to shitty. dragging a prolapsed walrus anus across a washboard is 'weird' but that doesn't mean i want to listen to it.
"unless it was produced by dilla"
-soulstrut
I don't know, I was just looking for a song title or two, not an analysis of someone's alleged lack of taste. If anyone wants to answer seriously, PM me with a few titles.
I agree with you, and even saying "I enjoy hearing something from the norm" will bring up a response as "so what don't you like about the norm?", which (I think) isn't the point of this thread.
I'll check it out.
I already mentioned "Clear the Set" by the Hot Boys off of their Guerilla Warfare album. Start there, and listen to the whole album while you're at it, most notably "Ridin" and "Get Out the Way".
I'll do that in a bit. Thanks.
I've been knowing that you're a good dude, John. Sorry about giving you static about your taste in rap. We apparently just don't see eye to eye on certain things. Saul good though...way to kill me with kindness.
So what we need is a Lil Wayne + Z-Ro + Clipse collabo, produced by Dilla.
With vocals from Keke Wyatt.
I also like how Lil Wayne is yet another "New Dylan".
You're conflating "aging boom bap heads" (read: guys who liked AZ in 1995 and grew up in or around NYC) with the current "hipsteur/blog/fader/ironicdipsetfan" camp (read: guys who are mostly too young to remember AZ in 1995 and moved to the city from elsewhere in the last 5 years).
It's an important distinction to make - I don't think the two have the same take on Southern rap (or Wayne in particular) at all.
Get out of my city all ready!
"Fall Out Boy"
Okay, fair enough. I will try to consider that next time I go on a tirade against all-things NYC.
Right - I'm not saying don't hatt, but please make the distinction. As an aging boom-bap head, who has a certain appreciation for dipset and a huge appreciation for southern rap (z.ro included)... it needs to be said.
Shied, are you actually going to back down from this reverse carpet-baggeur!? Are you going to let yourself be schooled by a dude that chose to forsake the Bay for New York!?
Shameful.
I dunno, I pretty much do see the difference he's talking about.
There's those who grew up with the boom-bap as the only way they knew. I can respect that.
Then there's those who are newbies who want simply want to associate themselves with what Phil calls real heads...and in trying way too hard to replicate the real heads' traditional disdain for the South, those dudes are complete assclowns who have no clue whatsoever.
We've got here in Texas as well. And I've had to learn to completely ignore them to keep from wanting to slap them one by one.
Would u get aggy at me if I said Im no Wayne fan, but likes Souf rapp.
And would that be a contradiction?
Well the newbies I am talking about LOVE the south...
But not for nothing this verse could've come out of Wayne's mouth yesterday and people would be giving it praises
It???s wayne baby, thugged out won???t change baby
I do your main lady, in a blue navigaty
That???s game baby, you can call me a game shooter
But since I drive a bubble people call me lex luger
I pull up in a expedition they be like no, nu-no, nu-nu-nu-no he didn???t
Yeah, the kids Shied is talking about aren't really concentrated in New York. I don't know if they're really concentrated anywhere in the real world--I only encounter them en masse on the internet.
I'd say Wayne is the hottest rapper amonst the young youfs in my (New York) neighborhood right now.
Hands down, same goes for Philly.
I think Harvey's making some good points in this thread, but I also think there's a marked difference between old Wayne and new Wayne that need not be broken down into regional aesthetic differences. As far as I'm concerned, technically speaking, Wayne is a lot more interesting now than he ever has been. And when I say "interesting," I'm not just talking about him being "weird" or "eccentric" in a Dipsetty way (which is a point I can totally understand). I find the "I Feel Like Dying" song to be pretty boring and not terribly listenable. It's cute and kitschy and I think it's cool that Wayne is willing to do silly weird stuff like that, but it's not a song I feel compelled to listen to. Where Wayne is most interesting to me is rhythmically and stylistically--and his earlier stuff isn't nearly as interesting in either of these fronts. Obviously, he's not chopping, but a lot of times, dude's more recent stuff sounds like he grew up listening to Fish or Volume 10 or Peace or something--all over the place tonally (but effectively), while also being damn near virtuousic with rhythm (see his "Shouldern Lean" freestyle). While I realize his style is rooted deeply with in a rich NOLA tradition of rap, I find his charm and charismatic "weirdness" has much more in common with the Project Blowed ethos than with Dipset's effortless, fun, Harlem eccentric tradition.
I'd also just like to briefly mention that there's rather obviously been a huge collective conscious shift where "Southern Rap" is a lot more "accepted" now than it was 10+ years ago. I realize Harvey is pretty ambivalent about this shift, but I also think it's a reality and mostly a GOOD THING.
I have no problem admitting that I was not checking for Cash Money records when they came out but now love a lot of it. I apologize for not being the most open minded 15-18 year old kid in the world.
After all that, quite honestly, I think "I Feel Like Dying" is a really wack reason for a lot of people to suddenly love Wayne. One that borders on
-e
-e
i feel that.