B.B. King, I don't get it

DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
edited March 2007 in Strut Central
If you mention the blues in America, 9 out 10 would probably say the king of the blues is BB King. I just don't get it. Outside of "Live at the Regal", I do not understand his appeal. He's not gritty like Howlin Wolf, he's not soulful like Magic Sam, his guitar playing is not at the level of a Freddy King and he is not an originator of much of the blues cannon like Muddy Waters or Elmore James. How Blue Can You Get and Thrill is Gone are lost on me. Suffice it say, I would not put him in my top ten blues singers/players of all time. Am I missing something?
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  • ElectrodeElectrode Los Angeles 3,127 Posts
    He uses finger prick free diabetes testing equipment like on the commercials so he's cool by me. "Chains And Things" is nice, too.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    At least he has more than 2 albums.

  • novasolnovasol 204 Posts
    The man fathered 15 kids. I'd play the blues too.




    Why produce that many kids this day in age?

  • erewhonerewhon 1,123 Posts
    The dude is safe and likable. America likes the Black Eyed Peas too.

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    The man fathered 15 kids. I'd play the blues too.




    Why produce that many kids this day in age?

    He DIDN'T father them in "this day and age," that's the thing...(I think they were from different mothers as well.)

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    If you mention the blues in America, 9 out 10 would probably say the king of the blues is BB King.

    Of COURSE they're gonna say that. As visible as he's been, and as much as he's done to take the music where it was never heard before, damn right B.B. is gonna be the point man. Hambone Willie Newbern never toured the USSR.

    I just don't get it. Outside of "Live at the Regal", I do not understand his appeal. He's not gritty like Howlin Wolf, he's not soulful like Magic Sam, his guitar playing is not at the level of a Freddy King and he is not an originator of much of the blues cannon like Muddy Waters or Elmore James.

    B.B. plays in a different style than all the guys you mentioned, so I don't quite get the comparison. He doesn't sound like Muddy, but then again that's not the point. Muddy wouldn't sound right singing "The Thrill Is Gone" either.

    If you don't like him, fine, but it sounds like you're looking for something that ain't there. The only thing he has in common with Wolf, Sam, Freddy, Muddy or Elmo is that they're all blues. Different kinds of blues, but blues nonetheless. That's like getting on the Sex Pistols' case for not sounding like Foreigner.

  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
    If you mention the blues in America, 9 out 10 would probably say the king of the blues is BB King.

    Of COURSE they're gonna say that. As visible as he's been, and as much as he's done to take the music where it was never heard before, damn right B.B. is gonna be the point man. Hambone Willie Newbern never toured the USSR.

    I just don't get it. Outside of "Live at the Regal", I do not understand his appeal. He's not gritty like Howlin Wolf, he's not soulful like Magic Sam, his guitar playing is not at the level of a Freddy King and he is not an originator of much of the blues cannon like Muddy Waters or Elmore James.

    B.B. plays in a different style than all the guys you mentioned, so I don't quite get the comparison. He doesn't sound like Muddy, but then again that's not the point. Muddy wouldn't sound right singing "The Thrill Is Gone" either.

    If you don't like him, fine, but it sounds like you're looking for something that ain't there. The only thing he has in common with Wolf, Sam, Freddy, Muddy or Elmo is that they're all blues. Different kinds of blues, but blues nonetheless. That's like getting on the Sex Pistols' case for not sounding like Foreigner.

    Let me put it this way. What's there to really love about his music? Sure he's competent enough. But IMHO he's really average, his playing, his vocals, his songwriting. There's really nothing distinctive about him to me. All the others I mentioned reached icon status because they really pushed some aspect of blues playing, performance or songwriting. I just don't see it with BB. Is BB one of the GOATs? What's good beside what I already mentioned? I think it's weird that an icon like himself, who's been around forever, really has very few classic tunes to his name.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    If you mention the blues in America, 9 out 10 would probably say the king of the blues is BB King.

    Of COURSE they're gonna say that. As visible as he's been, and as much as he's done to take the music where it was never heard before, damn right B.B. is gonna be the point man. Hambone Willie Newbern never toured the USSR.

    I just don't get it. Outside of "Live at the Regal", I do not understand his appeal. He's not gritty like Howlin Wolf, he's not soulful like Magic Sam, his guitar playing is not at the level of a Freddy King and he is not an originator of much of the blues cannon like Muddy Waters or Elmore James.

    B.B. plays in a different style than all the guys you mentioned, so I don't quite get the comparison. He doesn't sound like Muddy, but then again that's not the point. Muddy wouldn't sound right singing "The Thrill Is Gone" either.

    If you don't like him, fine, but it sounds like you're looking for something that ain't there. The only thing he has in common with Wolf, Sam, Freddy, Muddy or Elmo is that they're all blues. Different kinds of blues, but blues nonetheless. That's like getting on the Sex Pistols' case for not sounding like Foreigner.

    Let me put it this way. What's there to really love about his music? Sure he's competent enough. But IMHO he's really average, his playing, his vocals, his songwriting. There's really nothing distinctive about him to me. All the others I mentioned reached icon status because they really pushed some aspect of blues playing, performance or songwriting. I just don't see it with BB. Is BB one of the GOATs? What's good beside what I already mentioned? I think it's weird that an icon like himself, who's been around forever, really has very few classic tunes to his name.

    Perhaps BB greatest contribution is his vibrato. He may have been the first guitarist to use lots of vibrato without using a slide.

    His second contribution is playing the guitar with taste and restraint. Something lost on most people raised on rock guitar.

    From 1951 to today he has charted more than 70 perhaps closer to 80 R&B hits. Joel Whitburn ranks him at #8 all time R&B hit maker.

    Live at the Regal is covers of past hits, so if you like LATR you should really listen to some earlier stuff too.

    He is a good blues singer even if he is not as gruff as the Wolf or as soulful as Magic Sam. He has really good songs, some he wrote, even though you don't lie the TTIG. He is a great guitar player dispite not being flashy enough for you.

    For living blues legends I put him well ahead of Buddy Guy who most people would put at #2. Nobody puts BB at the top when you include dead legends like Wolf and Muddy.

    myway, you don't gotta like him. Just letting you know some reasons why he is the considered the King. Why I think he is great.

  • holmesholmes 3,532 Posts
    I think the reason BB has the reputation he does is basically the longevity of his career. The man has worked hard since the early 50s recording, touring the globe & promoting his. Sure, his records may not have the cutting raw vitality of the other artists mentioned, but he has an identifiable sound & he has been relatively consistent quality wise (forgetting some of the early 80s stuff of course). He is pretty much one of the only big names of his era to still be performing regularly. Pretty much every album he did up to the mid 70s is solid. Sure once you have 5 you probably won't garner any new info from any of the others, but he has stuck to his sound & he does it well. Maybe he seems average because he has always been there & some people maybe miss the point that he is one of the benchmarks that the whole electric blues style was built around. If BB King had never existed there would possibly have been a poorer effect on the blues as we know it than some may care to think about. Check out any of the stuff on Crown/Modern/RPM/Kent if you aren't familiar with them.

  • DrWuDrWu 4,021 Posts
    I think the reason BB has the reputation he does is basically the longevity of his career. The man has worked hard since the early 50s recording, touring the globe & promoting his. Sure, his records may not have the cutting raw vitality of the other artists mentioned, but he has an identifiable sound & he has been relatively consistent quality wise (forgetting some of the early 80s stuff of course). He is pretty much one of the only big names of his era to still be performing regularly. Pretty much every album he did up to the mid 70s is solid. Sure once you have 5 you probably won't garner any new info from any of the others, but he has stuck to his sound & he does it well. Maybe he seems average because he has always been there & some people maybe miss the point that he is one of the benchmarks that the whole electric blues style was built around. If BB King had never existed there would possibly have been a poorer effect on the blues as we know it than some may care to think about. Check out any of the stuff on Crown/Modern/RPM/Kent if you aren't familiar with them.

    Thanks, I have several Kent and RPM sides. None of which I care too much about.

    Dan, you have confirmed what I felt about BB all along. He deserves respect for his class and longevity but he is not someone who you can be passionate about. 80 charting singles and almost no standards in the blues canon says it all to me.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts

    Let me put it this way. What's there to really love about his music? Sure he's competent enough. But IMHO he's really average, his playing, his vocals, his songwriting. There's really nothing distinctive about him to me. All the others I mentioned reached icon status because they really pushed some aspect of blues playing, performance or songwriting. I just don't see it with BB. Is BB one of the GOATs? What's good beside what I already mentioned? I think it's weird that an icon like himself, who's been around forever, really has very few classic tunes to his name.
    I just reread this. To be specific; whats to love is polished playing singing songs and acommpiant.

    He is not average, he is copied. Remember his first hit Three O'clock Blues was 1951.

    He is distinctive, you just can't tell because he is so copied. In fact when you mention Freddy King and Magic Sam and you are mention biters.

    BB Pushed it too. He pushed the blues to be more sophisticated. Just because the direction was different does not mean it was not radical.

    Yes BB is a GOAT.

    Just start picking up every Crown/United comp you find for under $10 lots of good stuff there.

    As for very few classic songs, your just wrong. Like I said over 70 R&B hits. He's got more classics than all of Magic Sam's songs put together.

    Here is a top ten off the top:
    You Upset Me Babe
    Sweet little Angel
    Paying The Cost To Be The Boss
    Walking Dr Bill
    Thrill Is Gone
    Chains And Things
    If That's What It Takes To Be Hip
    How Blue Can You Get
    Don't Answer The Door
    I Got Some Help I Don't Need

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    I think the reason BB has the reputation he does is basically the longevity of his career. The man has worked hard since the early 50s recording, touring the globe & promoting his. Sure, his records may not have the cutting raw vitality of the other artists mentioned, but he has an identifiable sound & he has been relatively consistent quality wise (forgetting some of the early 80s stuff of course). He is pretty much one of the only big names of his era to still be performing regularly. Pretty much every album he did up to the mid 70s is solid. Sure once you have 5 you probably won't garner any new info from any of the others, but he has stuck to his sound & he does it well. Maybe he seems average because he has always been there & some people maybe miss the point that he is one of the benchmarks that the whole electric blues style was built around. If BB King had never existed there would possibly have been a poorer effect on the blues as we know it than some may care to think about. Check out any of the stuff on Crown/Modern/RPM/Kent if you aren't familiar with them.

    Thanks, I have several Kent and RPM sides. None of which I care too much about.

    Dan, you have confirmed what I felt about BB all along. He deserves respect for his class and longevity but he is not someone who you can be passionate about. 80 charting singles and almost no standards in the blues canon says it all to me.

    Lots of standards. But one reason he has so much class and longevity and fame is he has had the best promoter/manager/agent this side of Col Parker. I don't know the cats name, or when he came in. I think it was about '66. He told BB he could get him crossover hits and in with the hippies and he did. The guy got rid of all his other acts and is probably still managing BB today. Not only did he get him crossover hits, and underground hits, but he is one of the only blues artists to get R&B hits in the 70s & 80s. Few years ago he did a record with Eric Clapton which is only significant in it's commercial savvy.

    Who knows what the world would have looked like if Albert or Freddy or Magic or Jr or... had gotten that kind of management.

  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    Yeah, I'm not seeing this - you obviously
    don't have to like him, but some of these claims -
    that he's not "soulful," is a sub-par guitar player,
    that he's not emotive or raw, just go beyond opinion
    into non-truths. Certainly, the B.B. King of the modern
    era is smoothed-out and, as Laserwolf said, so familiar
    and copied that he's hard to listen to - but his original
    recordings are fantastic and include all of those qualities
    that you are unwilling to grant him.

    I wish I had my copy of the track "Five Long Years"
    on Kent at hand, so I could rip, divshare and facemelt
    the lot of you. Shit is raw.

  • holmesholmes 3,532 Posts
    I think the reason BB has the reputation he does is basically the longevity of his career. The man has worked hard since the early 50s recording, touring the globe & promoting his. Sure, his records may not have the cutting raw vitality of the other artists mentioned, but he has an identifiable sound & he has been relatively consistent quality wise (forgetting some of the early 80s stuff of course). He is pretty much one of the only big names of his era to still be performing regularly. Pretty much every album he did up to the mid 70s is solid. Sure once you have 5 you probably won't garner any new info from any of the others, but he has stuck to his sound & he does it well. Maybe he seems average because he has always been there & some people maybe miss the point that he is one of the benchmarks that the whole electric blues style was built around. If BB King had never existed there would possibly have been a poorer effect on the blues as we know it than some may care to think about. Check out any of the stuff on Crown/Modern/RPM/Kent if you aren't familiar with them.

    Thanks, I have several Kent and RPM sides. None of which I care too much about.

    Dan, you have confirmed what I felt about BB all along. He deserves respect for his class and longevity but he is not someone who you can be passionate about. 80 charting singles and almost no standards in the blues canon says it all to me.
    I guess if you don't care for the Kent/RPM stuff, we probably won't be able to change your mind, maybe you just aren't made to like him. I think we can just agree to disagree on BB King then. Maybe he didn't write a lot of his hits or standards in the blues canon, but many times his version is definitive & maybe even the reason the song is a standard.

  • i have to agree with dude on this one. bb king burns my ass.

  • Am I missing something?


    I dont think you're missing anything. Just like any other art, appreciative aural palettes differ from one to another. Thats one of many things i love about all music, no one hears it the same. real hippy-dippy type shit.

  • The Crown joints are fucking great (crackle & all ) , and the Modern and Kent stuff is good too. I love BB King/Lucille.

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    i have to agree with dude on this one. bb king burns my ass.

    Who are you agreeing with, and is that good or bad?

    B.B. King is who he is. If Dr. Wu is not convinced, he's not convinced. I can't point to the one B.B. cut where he sounds like Elmore James (wait a minute, I take that back - "Please Love Me" starts out with a SLASHING take on the Elmo James "Dust My Broom" riff before sliding into a cruising jump-blues shuffle that is less Elmore and ALL B.B.). But the man carved his own niche, with a definite jazz influence. And he doesn't sound as awkward doing soul music, as, say, T-Bone Walker or Howlin' Wolf did...T-Bone's "I Don't Be Jivin'" is a nice little soul-blues mover, but he still sounds like an old guy trying to stay on top of the new trends. B.B.'s "To Know You Is To Love You," on the other hand, was written by Stevie Wonder (he's playing the Fender Rhodes on this track, too), and B.B. sounds down in it...like a man who is a part of the soul/funk revolution, not a guy trying to cash in on it. Yet he still brought his blues heritage with him.

    But Wu cain't hear that, so...

  • The Crown joints are fucking great (crackle & all ) , and the Modern and Kent stuff is good too. I love BB King/Lucille.

    crackles a must for some blues records.

    didnt he sell Lucille awhile back or am i trippin?

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    The Crown joints are fucking great (crackle & all ) , and the Modern and Kent stuff is good too.

    Modern, Kent and Crown were all part of the same company.

    didnt he sell Lucille awhile back or am i trippin?

    He's had several Lucilles over the decades.

  • novasolnovasol 204 Posts
    The man fathered 15 kids. I'd play the blues too.




    Why produce that many kids this day in age?

    He DIDN'T father them in "this day and age," that's the thing...(I think they were from different mothers as well.)

    My poor choice of thread contribution. Correct different women. My reference is that of the industrial age...I got issues I know, will get over it.

  • p_gunnp_gunn 2,284 Posts
    bb king is awesome.

    it basically sounds like he is not HARD enough for you (which, as quite a few people have pointed out, is something you might change your mind about if you heard the early 50's stuff)... BB king is not Howlin' Wolf (who i do like more than BB) and will never be howlin' wolf, but he is just an amazing singer w/ a great range. he can kill you on those high notes. he's similar to Bobby Blue Bland, a more uptown take on the blues. you listen to something like "sweet little angel" , he'd be amazing if he was only a singer, but as a guitar player, BB was even sicker.

    yes, his vibrato, before him no one shook notes like that.

    plus, his usage of jazz scales in a blues format was, as far as i know, not done before him. he is a very tasteful and sophisticated player. now, there is a period where he got too tasteful for me, but there are def. some records where you hear him play and it's just so cool, like you can hear he def. dug Charlie Christian... yeah, i love to hear Albert King bend the same 3 notes over and over again, but i dig hearing BB play, too. whoever commented that BB's fame is only due to cashing in the the hippie audience, i don't buy it... all those guys played that circuit, Albert King, John Lee Hooker, etc...

    lastly, if all he even cut was "live at the regal", he'd be a legend. alot of bands/people have reputations on less.

  • buttonbutton 1,475 Posts
    Did anyone else know B.B. King can't play chords?

  • i have to agree with dude on this one. bb king burns my ass.

    Who are you agreeing with, and is that good or bad?

    B.B. King is who he is. If Dr. Wu is not convinced, he's not convinced. I can't point to the one B.B. cut where he sounds like Elmore James (wait a minute, I take that back - "Please Love Me" starts out with a SLASHING take on the Elmo James "Dust My Broom" riff before sliding into a cruising jump-blues shuffle that is less Elmore and ALL B.B.). But the man carved his own niche, with a definite jazz influence. And he doesn't sound as awkward doing soul music, as, say, T-Bone Walker or Howlin' Wolf did...T-Bone's "I Don't Be Jivin'" is a nice little soul-blues mover, but he still sounds like an old guy trying to stay on top of the new trends. B.B.'s "To Know You Is To Love You," on the other hand, was written by Stevie Wonder (he's playing the Fender Rhodes on this track, too), and B.B. sounds down in it...like a man who is a part of the soul/funk revolution, not a guy trying to cash in on it. Yet he still brought his blues heritage with him.

    But Wu cain't hear that, so...

    bb king fanclub testimonial.



  • any of y'all that are ridin for King wanna post up some niceness?

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts

    Modern, Kent and Crown Superior and RPM [/b] were all part of the same company.
    For the early 50s stuff RPM 78s are the original. There are RPM 45s also.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    whoever commented that BB's fame is only due to cashing in the the hippie audience, i don't buy it... all those guys played that circuit, Albert King, John Lee Hooker, etc...

    lastly, if all he even cut was "live at the regal", he'd be a legend. alot of bands/people have reputations on less.

    You misunderheard me. I was saying that in the 60s he picked up a great manager who dedicated his life to promoting BB. BBs commercial success as an ubiquitous continuing icon of the blues is due in large part to his management.

    I'm not saying that to put BB down or to say Hooker did not have success. I am just pointing out that the reason that there has been no bad times for BB is due to good management.

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    Did anyone else know B.B. King can't play chords?

    I did. Albert King couldn't chord either. Listen to that "supersession" album he did with Pop Staples and Steve Cropper. Those are two of the most subtlest rhythm guitar gods ever, and Albert is just stepping all over their shit with all these lead lines. I'm a fan of Albert, but then I love Pop and Steve too, and you just wanna tell Albert to Shut The Fuck Up sometimes...

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    BB's the man. Go see him in concert and see how an old man can still put his thing down.

  • If you mention the blues in America, 9 out 10 would probably say the king of the blues is BB King. I just don't get it. Outside of "Live at the Regal", I do not understand his appeal. He's not gritty like Howlin Wolf, he's not soulful like Magic Sam, his guitar playing is not at the level of a Freddy King and he is not an originator of much of the blues cannon like Muddy Waters or Elmore James. How Blue Can You Get and Thrill is Gone are lost on me. Suffice it say, I would not put him in my top ten blues singers/players of all time. Am I missing something?


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