[ Wasnt there a lot of controversy around that sort of thing quite recently - sony or some other big wig trying to digitise the cds so you couldnt listen to it in a cdrom drive (therefore rip it) - i heard a rumour computers were crashing when you tried to listen to the new beastie boys album or some shit.
Promo copies of the last UNKLE album had something like that on it. We were working on the website at work and the guys wanted audio clips on there... but we couldn't rip them from the CD. In the end, we had to use WireTap to record them in realtime... which, yeah, does prove there's a way around any copy protection.
I was suprised to learn (not that much of a thinker of you consider it) that people who produce high end audio plugin/apps are actually working WITH ripping groups like h2o to get their software out there in the consumer market. they work in the idea that if it becomes the industry at home, in peoples own studios, that the big studios have to purchase the $$$$ software and plugins to make the place more attractive to people coming in and using them..
It was all speculation on another forum but i dunno how new this idea is to people. im probably just slow on the uptake. but it shows that not everyone is against piracy. of course $$$$ for a plugin doesnt compare to a $ cd made from blood sweat and tears, but interesting none the less.
I did the MP3 of the Week in the U-WU days, long before I had my own site, and this was when most people had to take 30-45 minutes out of their day to download a 4mb file. Encoders were primaril iffy, dailymp3.com was one of the few well known places to find programs. etc.
Things have become more sophisticated. Even though I do get my share of music for free, I still buy a lot of music as well. There are websites where I'll download a song or two, and be moved to buy the vinyl or CD, or both. I have a weekly podcast, which to me does not and should not replace the actual music you can buy, it's more or less like downloading a radio show, or a sampler. I would prefer to be a radio DJ again and play the music legitimately while I get paid, THAT is preferable. But I want people to know what I think is worth listening to, and I'll do that. There are loads of blogs out there with full albums, so if someone wants the private press stuff or the Italian prog, or some one-off 45 that had a big 3-minute break on the B-side, you can find it.
On the other side, I had been told someone put my last album up on Soulseek. I know someone people will say "if you're that concerned about people bootlegging your music, maybe your music is not that good", but... someone who said he was a producer downloaded my album, heard it, and immediately deleted it because it was flat out boring. Comments like that I don't mind, but having to find out that he heard of it through Soulseek caught me offguard, especially since the pressing of my album was relatively small. However, I also know a lot of people had downloaded my "eBay Trauma Center" because it appeared on a comp. That had a lot of name artists on there (such as Quantic) but when the comp came out, I had a few people ask me if I was the guy who made the song.
I'd like to do a lot more, have my music out there, be put to work, go on tour, write, dig, whatever. I'm small time, but there are more than enough legal MP3 websites out there, and more than enough people who are willing to buy the music that way. I've had a few tracks available for download on my MySpace page, but I still want to give people music that is in decent quality, rather than something encoded at 128kbps. I like what Sonar Kollektiv does, where along with MP3's, you can download recent releases individually, or in whole, as WAV files. This is great for a lot of their 12" singles which aren't released on CD, you can have those mixes right there. I'd like to see more labels do that, and I wouldn't mind trying that out myself.
I think bottom line, as an artist you have to present more options. As a fan, one has to show support, be it with music, a live show, or merchandise if you wish to take something extra home with you.
my homie runs http://fromdabricks.blogspot.com - both richy pitch and yaggfu front have posted up on there saying thanks for the props on the album, and not remarking anything about the fact their full lengths was up there
one yaggfu guy is on the blogspot hussle anyway all the time, i forget what their blog is..
is it just a matter of time before the greedy fucks at the riaaa clamp on blog /cd /lp rips? Am i gonna have to settle out of court for $20,000 in 4 years because i downloaded a copy of flower traveling band or some other rare ass oop joint from rapid share via a blog?
how about you??
It's possible. They only need to subpoena the weblogs for the website and track down who downloaded what. I'm sure it will eventually happen if, for no other reason, than to make examples of some people.
is it just a matter of time before the greedy fucks at the riaaa clamp on blog /cd /lp rips? Am i gonna have to settle out of court for $20,000 in 4 years because i downloaded a copy of flower traveling band or some other rare ass oop joint from rapid share via a blog?
how about you??
It's possible. They only need to subpoena the weblogs for the website and track down who downloaded what. I'm sure it will eventually happen if, for no other reason, than to make examples of some people.
Yeah I'm sure that more examples will be made similar to that girl who was sharing nursery rhymes on peer2peer software a while ago and was taken to court for a couple of thousand dollars (the details escape me and I can't be arsed to google it).
In the related business of film sharing I know that companies tried to flood the market with fakes a few months ago in an attempt to make people think twice. While this was unsuccessful I do think their best bet is to put doubt into people's minds. The threat of removing access to the internet would probably be more powerful than a fine imho.
I've never really felt guilty sharing the music I do on my site, especially as it's only ever a few tracks, many of the albums are out of print or forgotten about, and, if possible, I link to where you can purchase the album. Even when I use Soulseek I'm careful to only share the same style of music and download similar.
Knowing enough people who are trying to make their livelihood out of music I don't think I could ever share whole albums of new material as I know a lot of people who play all their music through the computer and have no qualms about ditching purchasing music entirely.
Day, Thes One : i understand your point of view but please remember that, for a lot of people around the world, stealing your music through the net its the only way to hear that stuff. for example : in Poland MPM releases are available only in two small dj-shops in Warsaw and thats it. Imported CD's dont cost 8 bucks, more like 25, and this is not USA where u can easily make 8 bucks per hour. when you compare record prices to wages it seems like luxury to buy all exciting new releases on CD or vinyl. dont blame people for using blogs blame the record industry.
btw 'The Day Before' LP is pure
i will surely buy it when it becomes available here.
I run a blog and I don't upload any new material, I also have (like all of the other bloggers) have a disclaimer saying if any artist s not happy having their music on my blog then to please contact me and it will be removed.
My blog is about shit which isn't easy to get and I do compilations to take listeners back or introduce kids to great years like 1992 or 1994.
I don't actually upload full albums, just compilations I spend a lot of time on...the RIAA will probably go after us eventually but, if they really wanted too, would they have not done it by now?
As for me (and probably Thes, The Rub, Kingmost/Kero One and on and on), I'm not too cool with it. Both my upcoming CD and newest 12" were uploaded on a blog in their entirety, with cover art, for free.
I can understand major label shit being uploaded, but they're taking away what little money some of us are making.
I guess that's the world we live in though
b/w
karma is a bitch
I'm an asshole because I expect someone to pay 8 bucks for something I spent two years working on.
These people who download are the same fucks who complain about music getting shittier/more disposable. If you want to eat good food, don't go to the soup kitchen. Support your local chefs. If you DO go to hometown buffet, don't complain that it's not 5 stars.
Yes I'm mad doggie.
Uploading/downloading are an integral part of this music game these days, and I support the sharing of music for free via the internet as a means to help promote and sell our product. But what happens when ENTIRE CDs of mine get posted on the internet for download. Shit fucking sucks, man. It's like how am I supposed to eat? THIS IS WHAT I DO. THIS IS HOW I FEED MY FAMILY.
It's almost as though the cavalier attitude that people have that "music should be free" and that when downloading music they're "sticking it to the man" has metamorphed into an anarchistic free for all where everything is available and nobody is accountable. You're "sticking it to the man" aka the big business labels philosophy has now transformed into sticking it to a working artist from Philly - Me! How am I supposed to make a living doing this when nobody buys my shit. WHY would I even want to continue? If I had a fucking nickle for every time I go into a new town for a gig and some dude comes up to me and tells me "Man, I downloaded Love Break 2 off of Oink, it's SICK man..."
It's a really fucked up time to me a musician right now. The big companys are losing their minds. The little guys are losing their footing. NOBODY knows what's going to happen in the next couple of years. Quite scary.
Day, Thes One : i understand your point of view but please remember that, for a lot of people around the world, stealing your music through the net its the only way to hear that stuff. for example : in Poland MPM releases are available only in two small dj-shops in Warsaw and thats it. Imported CD's dont cost 8 bucks, more like 25, and this is not USA where u can easily make 8 bucks per hour. when you compare record prices to wages it seems like luxury to buy all exciting new releases on CD or vinyl. dont blame people for using blogs blame the record industry.
btw 'The Day Before' LP is pure
i will surely buy it when it becomes available here.
I feel you. It has always bothered my that my records cost so much in foreign territories but everyone is taking such a huge cut, the importers, the shippers, the local distributors, etc. It's messed up and, to a certain extent I don't blame people for looking for a better solution. It's a complicated situation. That's why I have tried to be as cool as possible with people I have been in contact with who are distributing my music for free. The problem is that in many cases, it's not just the artist, or only the artist who suffers. It's often a small contingency of people (indy labels, etc.) who are taking the risk and putting their money where thier mouth is when it comes to putting out our records. They are the ones who really lose. Some labels are greedy bastards and don't give a shit that the consumer gets reamed, so again, I don't blame cats for looking for an alternative. But alot of people actually believe in music and they pay for the pressing, the mastering, the shipping. These are the people that lose here. I'm not looking to get my 1$ off the record, I'm trying to make sure THey get the 20,000$ back they spent in pressing and shipping, placement, radio, etc. They record industry is a business, like anything else. Let's look at like an ice cream stand. Lots of ice cream stores will give you a taste, because they know that if you like it, you'll buy a whole scoop and probably become a return customer. But if the same ice cream store gave out a whole scoop to anyone who was mildly interested in their ice cream, or even just to people walking by, well, alot of ice cream would be wasted and maybe some people would pay out of the kindness of their hearts but I believe most would just eat it and walk away. And when they came back a second time they would probably expect more free ice cream, I mean why start paying now? Bottom line is, you'd have to be crazy to run an ice cream stand like that. Give 'em a taste, but if they want the whole scoop, you gotta pay.
It's amazing the to see the sense of entitlement some younger music fans are developing because, growing up with the internet, they have never really had to pay for music.
I'm not hating on a music sharing community, Soulstrut is that in a sense. But I think that we should go out of our way, when necessary to support. So I will be purchasing Day's record even though I could probably have him send me one. If every person registered here did that it would be a strong showing indeed.
If you can feel OK or justify dling music for free that is currently available and people are struggling to release, then that's on you. It seems like there are always a million reasons people can come up with why it's not that big of a deal to distribute indy music for free. But I think Cos** just gave you one GOOD reason why you should still pay for music. And that should be enough.
Cosmo, don't tell me you're not selling rakordz after your shows.
I totally agree with you, this is hard as hell to keep the faith and keep making beats for kids who will listen to your blood, your Music in a shitty quality while reading a mag in the subway...
But like it's been said Up/DOWNloading Music is part of the business now. This is like when you go fishing, you need worms to capture fishes.
1) To answer the original question: historically, RIAA (or similar agencies) have gone after file SHARERS rather than end users. In other words, it's one thing to download 1,000 songs, it's another thing to be sharing 1,000 songs. The latter is much more likely - in my understanding - to get you onto someone's radar than DLing music.
HOWEVER, the case that Keith linked to shows that end users can be successfully prosecuted for simply owning the files. However - and please take this with a grain of salt - my sense is that it is not in anyone's best interests (time/money-wise) to go after end users. Is it theoretically possible? Sure but a lot of things are theoretically possible vs. realistically probable (getting hit by a car today, for example).
2) How do CDs get leaked to the internet to begin with? Strangely, no publication I know of has really done the investigative footwork behind this though I've heard of a few stories in development. I think it's well worth investigating, just to understand the series of steps that these things go through.
Let me say this much: in MOST cases, it's not the journalists who are leaking advanced copies of CDs. At least not any of the writers I know in the business. There's way too much at stake if you get busted, the DRM shit is pretty prevalent these days (you should hear my El-P advance. Def Jux actually PERSONALIZED the promo-bot on each of them. Shit is creepy).
You want to know where shit gets leaked? It's in the chain of distribution between the studio, the mastering lab, the pressing plant, the retail stores AND the delivery services used in between. Given that all you need is ONE leak somewhere along that route, it's not hard to understand why so much shit gets leaked.
But it's not journalists - by and large - who are doing the leaking.
3) I personally would never post up an album for DL though that hasn't stopped me from DLing complete albums.
I do go to the store and buy albums that I genuinely want to see supported.
Of course...I'm sometimes buying used LPs and CDs (which artists don't make money off of)...
...using store credit earned often by selling back stuff I get for free to begin with.
2) Let me say this much: in MOST cases, it's not the journalists who are leaking advanced copies of CDs. At least not any of the writers I know in the business. There's way too much at stake if you get busted, the DRM shit is pretty prevalent these days (you should hear my El-P advance. Def Jux actually PERSONALIZED the promo-bot on each of them. Shit is creepy).
It's amazing the to see the sense of entitlement some younger music fans are developing because, growing up with the internet, they have never really had to pay for music.
I think Thes is nailing the problem right here...and the problem is that once we've crossed that threshold, it is very, very, very difficult to go back past it.
Appealing to people's sense of ethics just won't work here. I hope I'm not sounding cynical but even if you were patiently explain to people how artists lose out when shit gets DLed for free, I very much doubt that will make a difference to the vast majority of people. Bottomline: the free-ness outweighs all else.
I'm not sure what the solution is for the long term, especially for indie artists. Of course, if someone could figure that out, they stand to make billions.
Def Jux actually PERSONALIZED the promo-bot on each of them.
Saying.
My friend told me, "I bet you get called out, by name, on the new El-P CD." I feared the worst given my history with a few of the dudes in that family but then I realized: ah, the promo-bot. It's still creepy.
Appealing to people's sense of ethics just won't work here. I hope I'm not sounding cynical but even if you were patiently explain to people how artists lose out when shit gets DLed for free, I very much doubt that will make a difference to the vast majority of people.
A few minded people is better than not at all.
Bottomline: the free-ness outweighs all else.
What about the sound quality? It is still an argument, no? I still believe it.
I'm certainly not perfect at this, but I try to keep the bulk of my internet downloading restricted to out-of-print material (preferably private presses). There is a ton of beautiful music from people with names like Bob "Sugar" Smith and His Beautiful Sonic Embrace that pressed 1000 copies of some nutsy ModalFreeFolk thing that, by this time, the artist wouldn't care about clamping down on. Really: In the case of one Gary Higgins, without file sharing and mixtapes, Mr. Higgins would never have seen Drag City re-release his album. The RIAA would probably never take legal action against a blogger that shares OOP raers from non-Big Four LPs. Unless Aaron Fuchs is invoved.
I've always been of the mind that another, overlooked issue = an artist or label making zero money directly from used-music sales. Music companies have been trying for years to stop or over-legislate second-hand stores, and although brick-and-mortar used-music stores are either slowly going the way of the dinosaur or becoming tomorrow's $$$ specialty stores, they will be in business as long as folks have physical copies of music and need quick money. At least that's the way it seems to me.
It's amazing the to see the sense of entitlement some younger music fans are developing because, growing up with the internet, they have never really had to pay for music.
I think Thes is nailing the problem right here...and the problem is that once we've crossed that threshold, it is very, very, very difficult to go back past it.
Appealing to people's sense of ethics just won't work here. I hope I'm not sounding cynical but even if you were patiently explain to people how artists lose out when shit gets DLed for free, I very much doubt that will make a difference to the vast majority of people. Bottomline: the free-ness outweighs all else.
I'm not sure what the solution is for the long term, especially for indie artists. Of course, if someone could figure that out, they stand to make billions.
Couldn't agree more. Those younger music fans are my peers, and I can tell you straight up that no one buys music. No one. A handful of people have some CDs, maybe they got them as gifts, but my generation has grown up with online music (Napster started in 7th grade for me), and most people are technologically savvy enough to get whatever they want for free, or know someone who can get it for them.
Honestly, you're right Odub, I don't see this changing for my generation. Maybe for my younger sister's generation (currently in 7th grade), where iTunes dominates the market, but not for my peers. Music is disposable to my generation for the most part, because it's free and there is tons of it, of all styles, just a click away.
An offshoot of this phenomenon is that my generation tends to know very little about the music they listen to. You can listen to Mac Dre without knowing that he's dead (so many Beckys are surprised to hear this news) or listen to Public Enemy without understanding how their first few records shook the world. Music has become a private experience, something you listen to on your iPod to change your mood, or to distract you while running or taking the bus, or dance while smashed at a party to. Not that any of those things are wrong, but music should also be appreciated as art.
when it comes to supporting artists, and understanding the economics of making music. Support the independent hustle!
Appealing to people's sense of ethics just won't work here. I hope I'm not sounding cynical but even if you were patiently explain to people how artists lose out when shit gets DLed for free, I very much doubt that will make a difference to the vast majority of people.
A few minded people is better than not at all.
Bottomline: the free-ness outweighs all else.
What about the sound quality? It is still an argument, no? I still believe it. But you're still talking about the minority of folks out there. Sure "a few minded people" is better than nada but we're talking about what I think is a sea change in how music is consumed. The idea of purchasing music still holds weight for an older generation but as Thes was noting, it's among younger listeners that this new "entitlement" is cropping up and once that shift happens, I'm not sure what - if anything - will move it back to an older paradigm.
The sound quality argument is something that older folks - who still buy music - care about. I'm not convinced that the ringtone generation actually cares about this as much...not until they're 38, by which time, it won't help out the artists today just hustlin' to survive.
This said, these paradigm shifts are also the price of "progress." Vaudeville was killed by nickleledeons. Those got killed by movie palaces. Those got killed by cine-plexes. We mourn the loss of single-screen theater houses but does anyone feel bad that vaudville had to take an L just so the world could have "Star Wars"? (Well, more like "Birth of a Nation" and "The Jazz Singer"). For the performers of that generation, it must have felt like an abandonment or a betrayal too.
In any case, I really don't think popular music, as we know it, is on death's doorstep over all this. But yeah, we're experiencing some major growing pains as the game changes.
They only need to subpoena the weblogs for the website and track down who downloaded what.
whaaa?? if its a link to a site like rapidshare or sendspace how can they prove you actually d/led it?
Despite what people think the internet is not anonymous. Not by a long shot. I guess websites like Rapidshare could erase their weblogs but they probably don't. If the shits hits the fan they'll find your IP address and ask your ISP who it belongs to and then you're busted.
They only need to subpoena the weblogs for the website and track down who downloaded what.
whaaa?? if its a link to a site like rapidshare or sendspace how can they prove you actually d/led it?
Despite what people think the internet is not anonymous. Not by a long shot. I guess websites like Rapidshare could erase their weblogs but they probably don't. If the shits hits the fan they'll find your IP address and ask your ISP who it belongs to and then you're busted.
Again, the question is what is the opportunity cost involved in having someone like RIAA chasing after that many end users. Could it happen? Sure. Will it?
What about the sound quality? It is still an argument, no? I still believe it.
Lots of the young kids over here listen to music through their phone. They don't know what Bass is and they don't care. It's sad and it comes along with this development of free music/grab what you can mentality, the ways of consumption really changed...
They only need to subpoena the weblogs for the website and track down who downloaded what.
whaaa?? if its a link to a site like rapidshare or sendspace how can they prove you actually d/led it?
Despite what people think the internet is not anonymous. Not by a long shot. I guess websites like Rapidshare could erase their weblogs but they probably don't. If the shits hits the fan they'll find your IP address and ask your ISP who it belongs to and then you're busted.
Again, the question is what is the opportunity cost involved in having someone like RIAA chasing after that many end users. Could it happen? Sure. Will it?
....
Yes, but on a smaller scale compared to P2P file sharing.
But yeah, we're experiencing some major growing pains as the game changes.
Now, I need a drink... I'll spend the next 2 days downloading new shit on blogs, how come I depress?
Serious, look A-ko or they're young (younger than us) but they're into collecting records, there will always be kids who will (buy records and) care about the sound quality... I hear you but what I mean is that I believe in people who resist, not people who resist change but people who care about art.
You say "we're experiencing...", who the "we" is? I think the "we" is the consumer.
Comments
I was suprised to learn (not that much of a thinker of you consider it) that people who produce high end audio plugin/apps are actually working WITH ripping groups like h2o to get their software out there in the consumer market. they work in the idea that if it becomes the industry at home, in peoples own studios, that the big studios have to purchase the $$$$ software and plugins to make the place more attractive to people coming in and using them..
It was all speculation on another forum but i dunno how new this idea is to people. im probably just slow on the uptake. but it shows that not everyone is against piracy. of course $$$$ for a plugin doesnt compare to a $ cd made from blood sweat and tears, but interesting none the less.
Things have become more sophisticated. Even though I do get my share of music for free, I still buy a lot of music as well. There are websites where I'll download a song or two, and be moved to buy the vinyl or CD, or both. I have a weekly podcast, which to me does not and should not replace the actual music you can buy, it's more or less like downloading a radio show, or a sampler. I would prefer to be a radio DJ again and play the music legitimately while I get paid, THAT is preferable. But I want people to know what I think is worth listening to, and I'll do that. There are loads of blogs out there with full albums, so if someone wants the private press stuff or the Italian prog, or some one-off 45 that had a big 3-minute break on the B-side, you can find it.
On the other side, I had been told someone put my last album up on Soulseek. I know someone people will say "if you're that concerned about people bootlegging your music, maybe your music is not that good", but... someone who said he was a producer downloaded my album, heard it, and immediately deleted it because it was flat out boring. Comments like that I don't mind, but having to find out that he heard of it through Soulseek caught me offguard, especially since the pressing of my album was relatively small. However, I also know a lot of people had downloaded my "eBay Trauma Center" because it appeared on a comp. That had a lot of name artists on there (such as Quantic) but when the comp came out, I had a few people ask me if I was the guy who made the song.
I'd like to do a lot more, have my music out there, be put to work, go on tour, write, dig, whatever. I'm small time, but there are more than enough legal MP3 websites out there, and more than enough people who are willing to buy the music that way. I've had a few tracks available for download on my MySpace page, but I still want to give people music that is in decent quality, rather than something encoded at 128kbps. I like what Sonar Kollektiv does, where along with MP3's, you can download recent releases individually, or in whole, as WAV files. This is great for a lot of their 12" singles which aren't released on CD, you can have those mixes right there. I'd like to see more labels do that, and I wouldn't mind trying that out myself.
I think bottom line, as an artist you have to present more options. As a fan, one has to show support, be it with music, a live show, or merchandise if you wish to take something extra home with you.
one yaggfu guy is on the blogspot hussle anyway all the time, i forget what their blog is..
Haha. You're a funny dude.
It comes out the 16th. Be sure to tell us when yours drops.
It's possible. They only need to subpoena the weblogs for the website and track down who downloaded what. I'm sure it will eventually happen if, for no other reason, than to make examples of some people.
whaaa??
if its a link to a site like rapidshare or sendspace how can they prove you actually d/led it?
Yeah I'm sure that more examples will be made similar to that girl who was sharing nursery rhymes on peer2peer software a while ago and was taken to court for a couple of thousand dollars (the details escape me and I can't be arsed to google it).
In the related business of film sharing I know that companies tried to flood the market with fakes a few months ago in an attempt to make people think twice. While this was unsuccessful I do think their best bet is to put doubt into people's minds. The threat of removing access to the internet would probably be more powerful than a fine imho.
I've never really felt guilty sharing the music I do on my site, especially as it's only ever a few tracks, many of the albums are out of print or forgotten about, and, if possible, I link to where you can purchase the album. Even when I use Soulseek I'm careful to only share the same style of music and download similar.
Knowing enough people who are trying to make their livelihood out of music I don't think I could ever share whole albums of new material as I know a lot of people who play all their music through the computer and have no qualms about ditching purchasing music entirely.
Ah! Good question.
The question is "why these journalists (reviewers) give it to kids "blogleggers" so they can upload it, long long time before it drops?"
I don't have the answer.
I agree with Johmbolaya on the fact that sharing your Music on the net is not
I'll upload my album [on my own website][/b] in MP3/320kbps or AIFF/.WAV, the kids don't like .WAV but
Just wanted to say :
for example : in Poland MPM releases are available only in two small dj-shops in Warsaw and thats it. Imported CD's dont cost 8 bucks, more like 25, and this is not USA where u can easily make 8 bucks per hour.
when you compare record prices to wages it seems like luxury to buy all exciting new releases on CD or vinyl. dont blame people for using blogs blame the record industry.
btw 'The Day Before' LP is pure
i will surely buy it when it becomes available here.
Or maybe, blame the both but start by the record industry.
...................
Day, can't wait to hear your album mayne!!!!
My blog is about shit which isn't easy to get and I do compilations to take listeners back or introduce kids to great years like 1992 or 1994.
I don't actually upload full albums, just compilations I spend a lot of time on...the RIAA will probably go after us eventually but, if they really wanted too, would they have not done it by now?
http://coldrockdaspot.blogspot.com
Uploading/downloading are an integral part of this music game these days, and I support the sharing of music for free via the internet as a means to help promote and sell our product. But what happens when ENTIRE CDs of mine get posted on the internet for download. Shit fucking sucks, man. It's like how am I supposed to eat? THIS IS WHAT I DO. THIS IS HOW I FEED MY FAMILY.
It's almost as though the cavalier attitude that people have that "music should be free" and that when downloading music they're "sticking it to the man" has metamorphed into an anarchistic free for all where everything is available and nobody is accountable. You're "sticking it to the man" aka the big business labels philosophy has now transformed into sticking it to a working artist from Philly - Me! How am I supposed to make a living doing this when nobody buys my shit. WHY would I even want to continue? If I had a fucking nickle for every time I go into a new town for a gig and some dude comes up to me and tells me "Man, I downloaded Love Break 2 off of Oink, it's SICK man..."
It's a really fucked up time to me a musician right now. The big companys are losing their minds. The little guys are losing their footing. NOBODY knows what's going to happen in the next couple of years. Quite scary.
I feel you. It has always bothered my that my records cost so much in foreign territories but everyone is taking such a huge cut, the importers, the shippers, the local distributors, etc. It's messed up and, to a certain extent I don't blame people for looking for a better solution. It's a complicated situation. That's why I have tried to be as cool as possible with people I have been in contact with who are distributing my music for free. The problem is that in many cases, it's not just the artist, or only the artist who suffers. It's often a small contingency of people (indy labels, etc.) who are taking the risk and putting their money where thier mouth is when it comes to putting out our records. They are the ones who really lose. Some labels are greedy bastards and don't give a shit that the consumer gets reamed, so again, I don't blame cats for looking for an alternative. But alot of people actually believe in music and they pay for the pressing, the mastering, the shipping. These are the people that lose here. I'm not looking to get my 1$ off the record, I'm trying to make sure THey get the 20,000$ back they spent in pressing and shipping, placement, radio, etc. They record industry is a business, like anything else. Let's look at like an ice cream stand. Lots of ice cream stores will give you a taste, because they know that if you like it, you'll buy a whole scoop and probably become a return customer. But if the same ice cream store gave out a whole scoop to anyone who was mildly interested in their ice cream, or even just to people walking by, well, alot of ice cream would be wasted and maybe some people would pay out of the kindness of their hearts but I believe most would just eat it and walk away. And when they came back a second time they would probably expect more free ice cream, I mean why start paying now? Bottom line is, you'd have to be crazy to run an ice cream stand like that. Give 'em a taste, but if they want the whole scoop, you gotta pay.
It's amazing the to see the sense of entitlement some younger music fans are developing because, growing up with the internet, they have never really had to pay for music.
I'm not hating on a music sharing community, Soulstrut is that in a sense. But I think that we should go out of our way, when necessary to support. So I will be purchasing Day's record even though I could probably have him send me one. If every person registered here did that it would be a strong showing indeed.
If you can feel OK or justify dling music for free that is currently available and people are struggling to release, then that's on you. It seems like there are always a million reasons people can come up with why it's not that big of a deal to distribute indy music for free. But I think Cos** just gave you one GOOD reason why you should still pay for music. And that should be enough.
Cosmo, don't tell me you're not selling rakordz after your shows.
I totally agree with you, this is hard as hell to keep the faith and keep making beats for kids who will listen to your blood, your Music in a shitty quality while reading a mag in the subway...
But like it's been said Up/DOWNloading Music is part of the business now.
This is like when you go fishing, you need worms to capture fishes.
1) To answer the original question: historically, RIAA (or similar agencies) have gone after file SHARERS rather than end users. In other words, it's one thing to download 1,000 songs, it's another thing to be sharing 1,000 songs. The latter is much more likely - in my understanding - to get you onto someone's radar than DLing music.
HOWEVER, the case that Keith linked to shows that end users can be successfully prosecuted for simply owning the files. However - and please take this with a grain of salt - my sense is that it is not in anyone's best interests (time/money-wise) to go after end users. Is it theoretically possible? Sure but a lot of things are theoretically possible vs. realistically probable (getting hit by a car today, for example).
2) How do CDs get leaked to the internet to begin with? Strangely, no publication I know of has really done the investigative footwork behind this though I've heard of a few stories in development. I think it's well worth investigating, just to understand the series of steps that these things go through.
Let me say this much: in MOST cases, it's not the journalists who are leaking advanced copies of CDs. At least not any of the writers I know in the business. There's way too much at stake if you get busted, the DRM shit is pretty prevalent these days (you should hear my El-P advance. Def Jux actually PERSONALIZED the promo-bot on each of them. Shit is creepy).
You want to know where shit gets leaked? It's in the chain of distribution between the studio, the mastering lab, the pressing plant, the retail stores AND the delivery services used in between. Given that all you need is ONE leak somewhere along that route, it's not hard to understand why so much shit gets leaked.
But it's not journalists - by and large - who are doing the leaking.
3) I personally would never post up an album for DL though that hasn't stopped me from DLing complete albums.
I do go to the store and buy albums that I genuinely want to see supported.
Of course...I'm sometimes buying used LPs and CDs (which artists don't make money off of)...
...using store credit earned often by selling back stuff I get for free to begin with.
Doh!
I didn't want to hurt you Odub.
I think Thes is nailing the problem right here...and the problem is that once we've crossed that threshold, it is very, very, very difficult to go back past it.
Appealing to people's sense of ethics just won't work here. I hope I'm not sounding cynical but even if you were patiently explain to people how artists lose out when shit gets DLed for free, I very much doubt that will make a difference to the vast majority of people. Bottomline: the free-ness outweighs all else.
I'm not sure what the solution is for the long term, especially for indie artists. Of course, if someone could figure that out, they stand to make billions.
Saying.
My friend told me, "I bet you get called out, by name, on the new El-P CD." I feared the worst given my history with a few of the dudes in that family but then I realized: ah, the promo-bot. It's still creepy.
A few minded people is better than not at all.
Bottomline: the free-ness outweighs all else.
What about the sound quality?
It is still an argument, no?
I still believe it.
YOU should hear Matthew Snyder's copy.
I've always been of the mind that another, overlooked issue = an artist or label making zero money directly from used-music sales. Music companies have been trying for years to stop or over-legislate second-hand stores, and although brick-and-mortar used-music stores are either slowly going the way of the dinosaur or becoming tomorrow's $$$ specialty stores, they will be in business as long as folks have physical copies of music and need quick money. At least that's the way it seems to me.
Couldn't agree more. Those younger music fans are my peers, and I can tell you straight up that no one buys music. No one. A handful of people have some CDs, maybe they got them as gifts, but my generation has grown up with online music (Napster started in 7th grade for me), and most people are technologically savvy enough to get whatever they want for free, or know someone who can get it for them.
Honestly, you're right Odub, I don't see this changing for my generation. Maybe for my younger sister's generation (currently in 7th grade), where iTunes dominates the market, but not for my peers. Music is disposable to my generation for the most part, because it's free and there is tons of it, of all styles, just a click away.
An offshoot of this phenomenon is that my generation tends to know very little about the music they listen to. You can listen to Mac Dre without knowing that he's dead (so many Beckys are surprised to hear this news) or listen to Public Enemy without understanding how their first few records shook the world. Music has become a private experience, something you listen to on your iPod to change your mood, or to distract you while running or taking the bus, or dance while smashed at a party to. Not that any of those things are wrong, but music should also be appreciated as art.
What about the sound quality?
It is still an argument, no?
I still believe it.
But you're still talking about the minority of folks out there. Sure "a few minded people" is better than nada but we're talking about what I think is a sea change in how music is consumed. The idea of purchasing music still holds weight for an older generation but as Thes was noting, it's among younger listeners that this new "entitlement" is cropping up and once that shift happens, I'm not sure what - if anything - will move it back to an older paradigm.
The sound quality argument is something that older folks - who still buy music - care about. I'm not convinced that the ringtone generation actually cares about this as much...not until they're 38, by which time, it won't help out the artists today just hustlin' to survive.
This said, these paradigm shifts are also the price of "progress." Vaudeville was killed by nickleledeons. Those got killed by movie palaces. Those got killed by cine-plexes. We mourn the loss of single-screen theater houses but does anyone feel bad that vaudville had to take an L just so the world could have "Star Wars"? (Well, more like "Birth of a Nation" and "The Jazz Singer"). For the performers of that generation, it must have felt like an abandonment or a betrayal too.
In any case, I really don't think popular music, as we know it, is on death's doorstep over all this. But yeah, we're experiencing some major growing pains as the game changes.
Despite what people think the internet is not anonymous. Not by a long shot. I guess websites like Rapidshare could erase their weblogs but they probably don't. If the shits hits the fan they'll find your IP address and ask your ISP who it belongs to and then you're busted.
Again, the question is what is the opportunity cost involved in having someone like RIAA chasing after that many end users. Could it happen? Sure. Will it?
....
Lots of the young kids over here listen to music through their phone. They don't know what Bass is and they don't care. It's sad and it comes along with this development of free music/grab what you can mentality, the ways of consumption really changed...
Yes, but on a smaller scale compared to P2P file sharing.
Now, I need a drink... I'll spend the next 2 days downloading new shit on blogs, how come I depress?
Serious, look A-ko or
You say "we're experiencing...", who the "we" is?
I think the "we" is the consumer.