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LawyerRipOff Strut(Not RR)

eliseelise 3,252 Posts
edited February 2007 in Strut Central
Hello I am back again (applause....)I have a question for any possible law school strutters in here...I had a condition a couple of years ago and had to go to the emergency room (without health insurance, mind you) and the bill came to about $2,000..I wasn't able to obviously pay it all of at once, so I did a payment plan thru a law company that threatened to sue me many times.So, as of today I have payed $3,650 to this law company and the hospital. I was told it was including lawyer fees and everything. Now I got a bill(and an email, no phone call) for exactly another $2000, saying I owe for lawyer fees. I asked for an exact print out of why I was charged this much and they sent me a print out of my payments...then added the $2000 fee at the end...So, if anyone could help or lead me somewhere that'd be great! Im guess there are some level headed individuals in here Is there a company I can call? Or should I get a lawyer??I have the $2000, but Im not about to just give it to some lawyer who says I owe it without good reasons...thats a lot of mutha fuckin records...elise
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  Comments

  • sabadabadasabadabada 5,966 Posts
    you could argue that the contract is unconscionable, its hard to say without seeing any of the paperwork. The interest rates allowed by law are pretty outrageous, so it could actually be legal. I would start by writing letters to the effect that your records indicate that the debt is paid, and just keep responding to any new correspondence in the same way. You should have just kept owing the hospital, they dont report to credit agencies.

    Tell you what, bring all your files over to my place around 2:00 am tonight and we'll discus.
  • sabadabadasabadabada 5,966 Posts
    You could also argue minor or mental incapacity, duress, undue influence, misrepresentation, fraudulent inducement.


    mental incapacity.
  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    So this guy goes to see a lawyer for a quick conceltation.

    Takes about 10 min and then the lawyer says that will be $100.00.

    Guy gives lawyer a $100.00 bill and starts to leave.

    But, the lawyer sees that it is really 2 $100.00 bills that stuck together.

    Now, the lawyer has an ethical problem, does he split the $200.00 with his partner or just pocket it?
  • keithvanhornkeithvanhorn 3,855 Posts
    aside from fraud and breach of contract, this sounds like a violation of the Truth in Lending Act. my advice would be, first off, do not pay!!! second, try to get a lawyer-friend to write a letter on your behalf. the penalties for violating the federal act i mentioned above are pretty steep. moreover, there are additional state statutes that this company probably violated as well. keep in mind, i'm assuming that you are telling me the truth and they were not up front with you about these "lawyer fees." even if they put it in bold red print, i agree with sabada, that the fees would be viewed as unconsionable. i mean, what type of lawyering do you have to do to set a payment plan with a hospital??? sounds really sketchy. my guess is that if you are fortunate enough to have a lawer-friend that will write a letter for you, this problem will go away as soon as they receive it.
  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Q: What's the difference between a lawyer and an onion.

    A: Nobody cries when you cut a lawyer.
  • eliseelise 3,252 Posts
    I could most definately see misrepresentation in this case.

    I just feel stuck and don't know what exactly to do or what professionals to talk to.

    I mean, this is against me (a 24 year old female student) and some hungry lawyer.

    Saba...there are Tenant Unions for people who feel dicked over by landlords...is there anything like that that is for being dicked over by lawyers?
  • sabadabadasabadabada 5,966 Posts
    have keith write you a letter, I'm still in school. But he's right, the letter signals to them that it will potentially cost more to get the money back then its worth.

    "oh Keith, would you be that 'lawyer friend' to me?"
  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    I had to have medical tests a long time ago. I told them I could not pay the bill all at once. They said no problem we will put you on a payment plan.

    I never got a bill from them. Then one day I get a collection agency notice. I called the medical office all pissed, they said they were really sorry, they fucked up their records, their mistake. But, they have now sold the debt to the agency so it was out of their hands. I asked the agency to tell me exactly how much was owed and break it down and payments. They said not my job. I sent them 2 payments, then asked how much was still owing. They said we don't track that. I sent them one more payment with a note saying that I now considered the debt paid in full. Never heard from them again.

    That story wont help you none.

    A lawyer gave me a line to use once "Because of fraud in the inducement this contract is no longer valid". I've walked away from bullshit contracts with citysearch, phone companies and credit card processing companies using that line.

    I think that line, along with the aforementioned ("aforementioned" doesn't that make me sound like a lawyer?) "unconscionable" should do the trick.

    Most of use don't have friends that are lawyers.
  • eliseelise 3,252 Posts
    Yes, most of us don't have lawyer friends.

    Maybe I should try that.

    Now, what if they read it and laugh in my face and because I didn't pay it in a timely fashion, just add more fees?


    Keith- do you think I should get a lawyer?
  • sabadabadasabadabada 5,966 Posts
    keep in mind that you have the money and they have to get it from you. They have to weigh the cost of getting that money from you against the benefit of having it. If they don't get it, its not like they lost anything because they didn't do anything to get it. Before you go out and pay more money to a different lawyer, try a little self help. Explain that you've paid "x" amount on a debt that was only "y". Tell them that you dont think its fair and that you are not going to pay it under any circumstances and that you will get a lawyer if you have to. They'll get the message.
  • keithvanhornkeithvanhorn 3,855 Posts
    i think you should always get a lawyer, the problem is that most lawyers don't work for free. this might sound lame, but my advice is to contact your state bar association.

    what this "lawyer group" or whatever they call themselves did, sounds very much like an ethical violation. in essence, you hired them to represent you and they lied to you. the people who work for the state bar association are generally very friendly and helpful. what they will probably ask you to do is file a formal complaint with them. this is free and, trust me, when a firm gets notice that a complaint was filed against them....they take that shit very seriously.
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    what this "lawyer group" or whatever they call themselves did, sounds very much like an ethical violation. in essence, you hired them to represent you and they lied to you. the people who work for the state bar association are generally very friendly and helpful. what they will probably ask you to do is file a formal complaint with them. this is free and, trust me, when a firm gets notice that a complaint was filed against them....they take that shit very seriously.

    Good advice, if the entity in question actually is a law firm.

    However, I'm still not sure we have all the details:

    I wasn't able to obviously pay it all of at once, so I did a payment plan thru a law company that threatened to sue me many times.

    Why couldn't you enter into a payment plan directly with the medical provider?

    And why were you entering into a payment plan through a law firm (or "company")? Was there some further complication, like you disputed the initial bill, retained a lawyer, and then entered into a payment plan pursuant to a settlement? And the law firm somehow assumed the debt that you owed to the medical provider (which would probably be an ethical violation)?
  • eliseelise 3,252 Posts
    Thank you guys for all your help.

    Ive been asking people for weeks and all I was getting was shruggs. It's been pissing me off.


    I am going to write the Bar Association and see what happens from there.

    Not only that, I have got many e-mails contradicting what was owed and what the balance should be. It's really getting under my skin.

    We'll see what happens from here.

    xoxoxoxoxxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

    elise
  • eliseelise 3,252 Posts
    what this "lawyer group" or whatever they call themselves did, sounds very much like an ethical violation. in essence, you hired them to represent you and they lied to you. the people who work for the state bar association are generally very friendly and helpful. what they will probably ask you to do is file a formal complaint with them. this is free and, trust me, when a firm gets notice that a complaint was filed against them....they take that shit very seriously.

    Good advice, if the entity in question actually is a law firm.

    However, I'm still not sure we have all the details:

    I wasn't able to obviously pay it all of at once, so I did a payment plan thru a law company that threatened to sue me many times.

    Why couldn't you enter into a payment plan directly with the medical provider?
    Thats where I was lost and confused. I got a letter saying it went thru this law company and that if I wasnt to pay in full they will sue me.[/b]

    And why were you entering into a payment plan through a law firm (or "company)? Becuase they said they would sue me. The hospital is the one that hired this company lawyer, not me.[/b]

    Was there some further complication, like you disputed the initial bill, retained a lawyer, and then entered into a payment plan pursuant to a settlement? The only dispute is now.I feel I dont owe them shit. They got theyre money and more. I knew how much my bill was and I couldn't afford it at the time. I feel that they were (are) trying to get as much out of me as possible.[/b]
    And the law firm somehow assumed the debt that you owed to the medical provider (which would probably be an ethical violation)? Again, I never hired a lawyer. I just paid my bills!! I was basically a sucker, I feel now, and just didnt want bad credit or high interest.[/b]

    Am I going to go with the advice of writing the Bar.
  • keithvanhornkeithvanhorn 3,855 Posts
    what this "lawyer group" or whatever they call themselves did, sounds very much like an ethical violation. in essence, you hired them to represent you and they lied to you. the people who work for the state bar association are generally very friendly and helpful. what they will probably ask you to do is file a formal complaint with them. this is free and, trust me, when a firm gets notice that a complaint was filed against them....they take that shit very seriously.

    Good advice, if the entity in question actually is a law firm.

    However, I'm still not sure we have all the details:

    yea, i just re-read her initial post and now i think that she misunderstood what happened. more than likely, her debt from the hospital was passed over to a law firm that handles collection work. they probably threatened to sue her if she did not agree to the terms of their new payment plan. its still bullshit. but now she doesnt have as much ammo because there was never a lawyer-client relationship. the truth in lending act will still apply though, most likely. the law firm has to be up front when laying out the terms of repayment. my advice is still to CALL the state bar association. they can refer her to someone who handles this type of work in her state. also, its not out of the question that the company didn't violate some ethical rules.
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    what this "lawyer group" or whatever they call themselves did, sounds very much like an ethical violation. in essence, you hired them to represent you and they lied to you. the people who work for the state bar association are generally very friendly and helpful. what they will probably ask you to do is file a formal complaint with them. this is free and, trust me, when a firm gets notice that a complaint was filed against them....they take that shit very seriously.

    Good advice, if the entity in question actually is a law firm.

    However, I'm still not sure we have all the details:

    yea, i just re-read her initial post and now i think that she misunderstood what happened. more than likely, her debt from the hospital was passed over to a law firm that handles collection work. they probably threatened to sue her if she did not agree to the terms of their new payment plan. its still bullshit. but now she doesnt have as much ammo because there was never a lawyer-client relationship. the truth in lending act will still apply though, most likely. the law firm has to be up front when laying out the terms of repayment. my advice is still to CALL the state bar association. they can refer her to someone who handles this type of work in her state. also, its not out of the question that the company didn't violate some ethical rules.

    Well, I have yet to see any indication that it's actually a law firm--I think it may simply be a collection agency... it wouldn't hurt to make the call, though.
  • sabadabadasabadabada 5,966 Posts
    I like my advice better, why call the bar association over a $2000 bill that she's already paid almost twice. Just write and tell them what i said and everytime they write back, respond with the same letter and include copies of all the materials and other letters. When they see that you have your shit together and that it will take a fight to goet the money they'll drop it.
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    I like my advice better, why call the bar association over a $2000 bill that she's already paid almost twice. Just write and tell them what i said and everytime they write back, respond with the same letter and include copies of all the materials and other letters. When they see that you have your shit together and that it will take a fight to goet the money they'll drop it.

    Okay, big guy--she can do BOTH.

    Happy?
  • eliseelise 3,252 Posts
    Now, because this amount is due in two weeks and it takes months to investigate this situation, I'm scared they will take me to court.

    Can I be taken to court for not making the payment while the investigation is going through?

    I'm afraid of writing this lawyer and saying, "I refuse to pay until this is fully investigated."
    know what I mean?


    Should I even contact this lawyer? Or should I just wait on it? I am not one to ignore things or beat around the bush. I want this taken care of in a legal manner. And I dont want to owe more money just to find out if this was not ethical.
  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    post up the name of this "law company"
  • eliseelise 3,252 Posts
    Meyer Capel
  • sabadabadasabadabada 5,966 Posts
    i cant remeber if thats legal or not, for a lender to call someone up and threaten to sue them if they don't pay. I know there is a limit to what they can do before it becomes harrasing and against the law. It sounds like its a lot of bullshit that you have to clear this up in two weeks or else go to court. I would call them up, and explain that you have paid what you feel is an excessive amount of money to pay off the original debt, and that if they insist on pursuing this then you will contact a lawyer. Dont admit to the debt but you can offer to pay them a fraction of the amount owed, they cant use that against you.

    Then find a lawyer to write you a letter.
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Meyer Capel

    Huh, looks like they are a law firm.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    Call them up, and explain that you have paid what you feel is an excessive amount of money to pay off the original debt, and that if they insist on pursuing this then you will contact a lawyer. [/b]

    Best advice in the thread
  • sabadabadasabadabada 5,966 Posts
    Cant lawyers still act as debt consolidators. Is that what this is. Then maybe a call to the state bar association is a good idea. That'll make them stop and think.

    What about, malpractice. It doesnt seem like they did a very good job of protecting your interests.
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Cant lawyers still act as debt consolidators.

    It would surprise me--I expect that that they're outside counsel to the collection agency. I also suspect that any ethical breach was on the part of the agancy and that the state Bar isn't going to be particularly interested in the fact that the law firm sent her a couple of letters.

    As you and Paycheck have already pointed out, best thing to do is probably make contact with them and see if she can negotiate something.
  • sabadabadasabadabada 5,966 Posts
    here you can read this "Contracts: What You Need To Know" from the Mayer Capel website.

    http://www.meyercapel.com/pubs/Contracts.pdf

    what you need to know - pay up bitches!
  • keithvanhornkeithvanhorn 3,855 Posts
    Cant lawyers still act as debt consolidators.

    It would surprise me--I expect that that they're outside counsel to the collection agency. I also suspect that any ethical breach was on the part of the agancy and that the state Bar isn't going to be particularly interested in the fact that the law firm sent her a couple of letters.

    As you and Paycheck have already pointed out, best thing to do is probably make contact with them and see if she can negotiate something.

    There are plenty of law firms who get paid a fee based on what % they can recover from an unpaid debt. I think i said this in my last post. The law firms get additional fees by tacking on "lawyer fees" as part of the collection process. Elise is like this firm's dream come true. No offense. Not only did she pay off all the debt...but now they are trying to squeeze her for bullshit lawyer fees. In actuality, they probably did spend an hour sending out these form letters to her. They might even file a Complaint if she doesnt pay, and possibly show up to court.

    However, i have had cases identical to hers and raised some of the defenses/counterclaim theories we have talked about, and the collection firms have backed off immediately. I'm no longer advising her to call the bar association so they can investigate this firm's ethical violations (although they might), but so they can recommend an affordable lawyer for her.
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Cant lawyers still act as debt consolidators.

    It would surprise me--I expect that that they're outside counsel to the collection agency. I also suspect that any ethical breach was on the part of the agancy and that the state Bar isn't going to be particularly interested in the fact that the law firm sent her a couple of letters.

    As you and Paycheck have already pointed out, best thing to do is probably make contact with them and see if she can negotiate something.

    There are plenty of law firms who get paid a fee based on what % they can recover from an unpaid debt.

    Right--but they don't themselves assume the rights to the debt. That's all I'm saying.
  • eliseelise 3,252 Posts
    Thank you.

    Noo offense taken, btw. I can see how they can look at me and think,"sucker". I am just clueless about this shit. As, I am sure many people are.

    Maybe I should find an affordable lawyer.


    ???

    Thank you, again, to everyone who wrote. I have to go dj a happy hour set to some folks. Im hoping it will ease my mind..this shit causes wrinkles!

    Time to play some raers...



    deeeep breath.....
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