Why don't you find a racist that actually weilds some sort of power or influence to get worked up over?
ok
david duke does not mean much here in the u.s., i agree with you there, but having the douche as a guest of the government in other countries who have pretty much a government run media and parading him around as a US "scholar" is something very disturbing, dare i say more disturbing than a washed up comedian/actor slinging racist comments at an audience in a comedy club, it should not be brushed off so lightly
I'm sure faux said something above this that fits well into his asshole persona.
Anyways It's interesting to see how a 2nd rate hack like Michael Richards yelling something at a comedy club gets people into an uproar but someone like former political office holder David Duke being involved with both the Syrian and Iranian government speaking as an American in those countries and then coming on CNN spouting his opinion gets something closer to a "it's no big deal"
apparently, in some peoples minds, Kramer and his allies (boycott seinfeld) are a bigger threat than Duke and co in the middle east.
Call me when Richards attempts to create a nuclear bomb
I'm sure faux said something above this that fits well into his asshole persona.
Anyways It's interesting to see how a 2nd rate hack like Michael Richards yelling something at a comedy club gets people into an uproar but someone like former political office holder David Duke being involved with both the Syrian and Iranian government speaking as an American in those countries and then coming on CNN spouting his opinion gets something closer to a "it's no big deal"
apparently, in some peoples minds, Kramer and his allies (boycott seinfeld) are a bigger threat than Duke and co in the middle east.
Call me when Richards attempts to create a nuclear bomb
I'm not touching this thread. All I was trying to say was:
A. david duke is a racist nobody. Iran could have gotten anyone to be a "US scholar". It doesn't make him any less of a nobody.
B. Holocaust Deniers make me sick and are beyond my comprehension.
Iran could have gotten anyone to be a "US scholar". It doesn't make him any less of a nobody.
there are plenty of nobodys in america that get attention in other parts of the world...
the thing is day we for the most part in america know the dude is a piece of shit, the problem is in the middle east he is preaching to the choir on the subject of jews, it only makes these folks think that there is a substantial amount of americans that agree with him and that gives them hope that one day jews will be pushed into the sea, and iam not really down with that, and i think that is deserving of at least a thread
there are millions of threads on here that are total garbage and inane subjects that should not even be given the server space, why is it that this subject should be dropped so quick?
it only makes these folks think that there is a substantial amount of americans that agree with him and that gives them hope that one day jews will be pushed into the sea
And these types of stories make certain Americans think that all Iranians--and, by extension, many Persian-Americans--are all anti-semitic nutjobs. Just as I don't want to be judged by anything that Dubya does, I'm sure that there are many, many Iranians who feel the same way about Ahmadinejad.
Most media outlets--CNN definitely being one of them--like to paint in very broad brush strokes.
Having said that, holocaust deniers are, in a word, low.
it only makes these folks think that there is a substantial amount of americans that agree with him and that gives them hope that one day jews will be pushed into the sea
And these types of stories make certain Americans think that all Iranians--and, by extension, many Persian-Americans--are all anti-semitic nutjobs. Just as I don't want to be judged by anything that Dubya does, I'm sure that there are many, many Iranians who feel the same way about Ahmadinejad.
It's true that CNN (and other mainstream media outlets) ignored the anti-AAhmadinejad rallies in response to the Holocause conference (there was one apparently at Teheran's major university.)
im not trying to stir anything but im not really knowledgable of the whole holocaust denying shit. what exactly is the reasoning behind this demented shit and is it just some anti-semetic shit or some conspiracy tip?
im not trying to stir anything but im not really knowledgable of the whole holocaust denying shit. what exactly is the reasoning behind this demented shit and is it just some anti-semetic shit or some conspiracy tip?
NY TIMES
December 14, 2006 News Analysis
Deep Roots of Denial for Iran???s True Believer By MICHAEL SLACKMAN
CAIRO, Dec. 13 ??? Iran???s so-called Holocaust conference this week was billed as a chance to force the West to reconsider the historical record and, thereby, the legitimacy of Israel. But why would the Iranians invite speakers with so little credibility in the West, including a former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard and disgraced European scholars?
That question misses the point. Iran???s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, portrays participants like David Duke, the former Louisiana Klan leader, and Robert Faurisson of France, who has devoted his life to trying to prove that the Nazi gas chambers were a myth, as silenced truth-tellers whose stories expose Western leaders as the hypocrites he considers them to be.
Just as Soviet leaders used to invite Americans who suffered racial or political discrimination to Moscow to embarrass Washington, Mr. Ahmadinejad seems to enjoy pointing out that countries like Germany, France and Austria claim to champion free debate yet have made Holocaust denial illegal.
He has also repeatedly tried to draw a moral equivalency between questioning the Holocaust and the decision in Europe last year to publish cartoons lampooning the Prophet Muhammad. It wins him favor at home and across the Arab world for standing up to the West and allows him to present himself as morally superior to the West.
But there is another important point. Mr. Ahmadinejad actually seems to believe that the volumes of documentation, testimony and living memory of the Nazi genocide are at best exaggerated and part of a Zionist conspiracy to falsify history so as to create the case for Israel. [/b] As a former member of the Revolutionary Guards, he was indoctrinated with such thinking, a political analyst in Tehran said, and as a radical student leader, he championed such a view.
Now he has a platform to promote the theories ??? and to try to position himself regionally as the reasonable man who is asking hard questions.
The two-day meeting included no attempt to come to terms with the nature of the well-documented Nazi slaughter, offering only a platform to those pursuing the fantasy that it never happened. In addition, the organizers of the conference, a small circle around the president, have been building ties with neo-Nazi groups in Europe. [/b]
???He is connected to people in Iran who trust his way of doing things and who seriously believe the Holocaust did not take place,??? said Martin Ebbing, a German journalist in Tehran who has closely followed the president. ???They seriously believe it.???
Evidence of that came in a revealing interview last May with the German magazine Der Spiegel. The interviewer mostly wanted to discuss Iran???s nuclear ambitions and the government???s refusal to give up uranium enrichment, but the discussion kept returning to the Holocaust. At one point, the exasperated interviewer actually lectured the Iranian president on Germany???s culpability.[/b]
???In our view, there is no doubt that the Germans ??? unfortunately ??? bear the guilt for the murder of six million,??? the interviewer said to Mr. Ahmadinejad.
The president gave little ground, saying Germans should rid themselves of such guilt. ???I will only accept something as truth if I am actually convinced of it,??? he said.
Across the Middle East, contempt for Jews and Zionism is widespread and utterly mainstream. Many say the Holocaust has been wildly exaggerated and used to justify the creation of the Jewish state in 1948 at the expense of Palestinians, a move viewed as yet another example of Western imperialism.[/b]
Anti-Western rage fueled the 1979 Iranian revolution, and Mr. Ahmadinejad has tried to rekindle its energy by spreading Iran???s influence beyond its borders. Battling Washington, chiding Arab leaders and claiming to promote the Palestinian cause have made him extremely popular on the streets from Cairo to Morocco.
Such actions have also helped turn attention away from his inability so far to deliver on promises of economic populism, including a redistribution of wealth and greater social justice for the bulk of the country that is struggling to make ends meet.
The president???s ideas do not resonate in all corners of Iran, though, and some political scientists there say they have embarrassed officials who, even if they agree, do not want to see a focus on Holocaust denial further isolate Iran from Europe.[/b]
???I raise two questions about this conference,??? said Ahmad Shirzad, a reformist politician and former legislator. ???First, how much does this solve the problems our people are faced with? And secondly, which one of our goals were realized? It looks like he wants to make news and do provocative things.???
Others see an even more ambitious post-Iraq agenda reflected in Mr. Ahmadinejad???s high profile on the issues of Jews, the Holocaust and Israel.
???It is for public consumption in Arab countries,??? said Mustafa El-Labbad, editor of Sharqnameh, a magazine specializing in Iranian affairs and published in Cairo. ???It is specifically directed toward deepening the gap between the people and their regimes and toward embarrassing the rulers so that the regional power vacuum, especially after Iraq, can be filled by Iran.???
Mona el-Naggar contributed reporting from Cairo, and Nazila Fathi from Tehran.
im not trying to stir anything but im not really knowledgable of the whole holocaust denying shit. what exactly is the reasoning behind this demented shit and is it just some anti-semetic shit or some conspiracy tip?
there are a rainbow of reasons for people denying it, most hate jews in my opinion, i went to high school with a kids whos grandfather was a german soldier and because his grandfather denied it happened so does he, and there is a large number of conspiracy theory nuts that believe it was all made up by the bankers and probably some rothchild shit or something, you would have to pm that project blowed dude in texas about that
im not trying to stir anything but im not really knowledgable of the whole holocaust denying shit. what exactly is the reasoning behind this demented shit and is it just some anti-semetic shit or some conspiracy tip?
its anti-semitic semitic shit.
a few years back a book came out called the Leuchter Report It disputed that the Gas Chambers found at Auchwitz were not used for mass murder.
from wikipedia I found this paragraph which explains what Leuchter did better than I could
In 1988, Leuchter traveled to several sites of structures identified as gas chambers, where he surreptitiously collected samples from walls, ceilings and floors since he did not have permission to take samples, using a chisel and hammer to chip and scrape off pieces of the masonry. He took copious notes about the floor plans and layout, and all of his actions were videotaped by a cameraman. (Leuchter, who had been married for about one month before the trip, told his wife that the trip to Auschwitz-Birkenau was their honeymoon.) Leuchter then brought the samples back to Boston, where he presented them to Alpha Analytical Laboratories, a top laboratory, for testing. Leuchter told Alpha only that the samples were to be used as evidence in a court case about an industrial accident. The lab tested them for exposure to cyanide and found trace amounts in the alleged crematoria, which Leuchter dismissed in his report
His report helped spark conspiracy theorists and helped many hate groups justify their hatred of Jews and their complaining which they feel led to the creation of Israel.
PS I am not saying that the Leuchter Report is the key to Holocaust denial, I'm just saying that it helped certain groups justify their belief that the holocaust never happened
there are millions of threads on here that are total garbage and inane subjects that should not even be given the server space, why is it that this subject should be dropped so quick?
is it because guzzo is involved?
Not at all. I think it's because most people probably see duke in the same light and don't feel the need to pay him any mind.
Some could argue that you and Guzzo are being overly sensitive about no one giving a shit about him.
why is it that this subject should be dropped so quick?
No one is saying "drop the subject", but how much more can you discuss? david duke spoke at a conference saying what he always says, to people who the entire world knows feels the same way as him. I'm not saying in any way that meeting was "no big deal" - Iran's president is an anti-semite and we need to keep them from getting nuclear weapons - this is not news to anyone though.
I don't know what more I can say. I'm AGREEING with everyone yet I feel I'm being painted as a bad guy for asking questions.
That said, I'm glad this is being talked about because you brought a perspective I would have probably missed:
the thing is day we for the most part in america know the dude is a piece of shit, the problem is in the middle east he is preaching to the choir on the subject of jews, it only makes these folks think that there is a substantial amount of americans that agree with him and that gives them hope that one day jews will be pushed into the sea, and iam not really down with that, and i think that is deserving of at least a thread
While I wish most people were able to see the David Dukes of the world for who they really are, I think that a good many simply don't have enough education or context to dismiss them as virulent wingbats.
I live in a town of 40K in eastern Canada where most people have never met a Jew or had any meaningful exposure to the Holocaust history. For them, Jews are people who are stingy, controlling, and either arch-capitalists or arch-communists depending on your political sympathies. Those who grew up with religious figures of a particular sort think Jews killed Christ and eat Christian babies. A Jew for most people is just a vague package of stereotypes.
So, when David Duke spouts off about the Zionist conspiracy, people don't necessarily dismiss his ideas. I think Guzzo is right to be concerned about the attention given to Duke and Holocaust deniers. Fortunately, CNN lambasted him.
On a personal note, having a grandmother who was literally in an Auschwitz gas chamber, Holocaust denial of any sort is deeply troubling.
This is kinda related to guzzo's post I guess. Has anyone here heard of a movie called "Valley of the Wolves"? Its a turkish made, big budget film starring Gary Busey & Billy Zane. It was supposed to be released in the US, but was pulled. Its about the Iraq war. Billy Zane plays an insane US soldier who guns down innocent people & Busey plays a Jewish doctor at Abu who harvests the organs of the prisoners & sells them to wealthy people in new york & tel aviv.. Anyhow, its a big smash in Turkey. Here's a description of Busey's character from the official website of the movie:
"Doctor: He is fifty or fifty five years old. He is na??ve, well-dressed and has a polite look. He is a citizen of the USA and a Jew who has worked in the clinics of the region for years. He is an expert in his branch. Especially, he has worked in transplantation for the last few years. He has been sending the tissues such as kidneys and eye corneas which he takes from the dying prisoners to the west."
Dude, just stop. He's a nutjob that's occasionally dragged out on TV for his entertainment value. And "getting" to speak with the Iranian government isn't exactly something that makes you less marginal.
Why don't you find a racist that actually weilds some sort of power or influence to get worked up over?
wolf, do you believe that israel has a right to exist, or do you just have problems with israels policies towards its neighbors and palestine? are you for a two state solution?
wolf, do you believe that israel has a right to exist, or do you just have problems with israels policies towards its neighbors and palestine? are you for a two state solution?
I am for a 2 state solution. Israels right to exist is guaranteed. I support Palestine's right to exist which currently does not exist.
I think that religious states are bad public policy. At the same time I understand that most countries have official religions that often have great influence.
Since the goal of Israel was to assure the future safety of Jews we can see that it has been a miserable failure.
Perhaps those who argue so strongly for Israel secretly just want to round up all the Jews for easy annihilation.
Still dumbfounded at the selective judgement on this board.
"Israel had done a lot of bad, but compared to what its neighbors have done to their people and surrounding regions, it's small potatoes."
Way to operate from the false assumption that most socially critical people don't condemn their neighbors' actions as well. "Well, the US is engaged in a whole bunch of imperialist pursuits and kills people left and right." As though the bulk of scholarly opponents to Zionism condone US foreign policy at large.
Quick question for the exponents of the above line of reasoning: Do you also contend that entire countries should be wiped off the map because "the Totalitarian leadership is oppressing its own people anyway?"
Further, Zionism is a militaristc movement that has, from the period of time shortly after its birth, waged a campaign of terror against the Indigenous Middle Eastern populations it has encountered. Before you open your mouths again (or type as the case may be), research Dir Yassin, research Folke Bernadotte (whose assasins were subsumed into Israeli mainstream politics-- the same hyopcrites, mind you, who were quick to indict the terrorism of Palestinians), the Irgun, the Haganah, Al Kakba.
Doomed to repeat the past? The past never left.
To be certain, there is propagandizing all along the political spectrum. Anti-Semitism is a very real and politically salient force. Further, I don't think that the mass influx of Jewish persons fleeing the Holocaust to Israel during WWII and the resulting displacement is universally subject to conventional moral assesment. . .for the same reason that I don't think Palestinian suicide bombing, while deeply lamentable is universally subject to convetional moral debate. That said, so many of the "informed" strutters on this board either don't even make an attempt to provide context, don't know what the fuck they're talking about, or an engaging in Obscurantism, plain and simple.
I've never been crazy about the word Zionism. Whoever came up with it must have been a self hating Jew. The Jewish right of return is just that a right. There is no need to coin a special word for this. The word Zionist is now a PC word for gentiles to used when they talk about Jews they don't like. In the old days, it was "filthy jew". Today, they say "Zionist". If anyone asks me if I'm a Zionist, I tell them no. I am just an unruly Jew who will not be bullied by you and wants what is his.
Still dumbfounded at the selective judgement on this board.
"Israel had done a lot of bad, but compared to what its neighbors have done to their people and surrounding regions, it's small potatoes."
Way to operate from the false assumption that most socially critical people don't condemn their neighbors' actions as well. "Well, the US is engaged in a whole bunch of imperialist pursuits and kills people left and right." As though the bulk of scholarly opponents to Zionism condone US foreign policy at large.
Quick question for the exponents of the above line of reasoning: Do you also contend that entire countries should be wiped off the map because "the Totalitarian leadership is oppressing its own people anyway?"
Further, Zionism is a militaristc movement that has, from the period of time shortly after its birth, waged a campaign of terror against the Indigenous Middle Eastern populations it has encountered. Before you open your mouths again (or type as the case may be), research Dir Yassin, research Folke Bernadotte (whose assasins were subsumed into Israeli mainstream politics-- the same hyopcrites, mind you, who were quick to indict the terrorism of Palestinians), the Irgun, the Haganah, Al Kakba.
Doomed to repeat the past? The past never left.
To be certain, there is propagandizing all along the political spectrum. Anti-Semitism is a very real and politically salient force. Further, I don't think that the mass influx of Jewish persons fleeing the Holocaust to Israel during WWII and the resulting displacement is universally subject to conventional moral assesment. . .for the same reason that I don't think Palestinian suicide bombing, while deeply lamentable is universally subject to convetional moral debate. That said, so many of the "informed" strutters on this board either don't even make an attempt to provide context, don't know what the fuck they're talking about, or an engaging in Obscurantism, plain and simple.
NOT THIS ASSCLOWN AGAIN. THIS FOLL ONLY SHOWS UP IN ISRAEL-RELATED THREADS TO TALK SHIT. PEEP THE POST COUNT; AND THEY ARE ALL FROM THE LAST ISRAEL-RELATED THREAD A COUPLE MONTHS BACK. FUCKTARD: LEAVE THE BOARD.
I read more than I post, don't have the internet at home, and am on the go.
You can peep the post count if you like. The fact that most of the posts are from the "Has Israel Gone Too Far" thread is just a testament to how involved that one was.
Posts about equipment, qustions about kung fu flicks and Boris Mancow records (which weren't answered, btw), and the American HC movie may be a little less contentious.
I've never been crazy about the word Zionism. Whoever came up with it must have been a self hating Jew. The Jewish right of return is just that a right. There is no need to coin a special word for this. The word Zionist is now a PC word for gentiles to used when they talk about Jews they don't like. In the old days, it was "filthy jew". Today, they say "Zionist". If anyone asks me if I'm a Zionist, I tell them no. I am just an unruly Jew who will not be bullied by you and wants what is his.
Come on, Haz. This is just absurd. The Zionist project was just that, A project started by a group of very determined people, the majority of whom were not self-hating Jews. They were Jews trying to fortify themselves and their communities against pervasive anti-semitism. It's very dangerous to make arguments of convenience.
I disagree with you on the right of return debate, in the same sense that if I embraced animism I don't think that would give me the right to return to West Africa and displace people currently living there. Nor would becoming Christian again secure my "right" to a villa in Rome. I do believe however that there is a huge cultural debt owed Jewish people by Europe and the states.
Comments
ok
david duke does not mean much here in the u.s., i agree with you there, but having the douche as a guest of the government in other countries who have pretty much a government run media and parading him around as a US "scholar" is something very disturbing, dare i say more disturbing than a washed up comedian/actor slinging racist comments at an audience in a comedy club, it should not be brushed off so lightly
jinx
I'm not touching this thread. All I was trying to say was:
A. david duke is a racist nobody. Iran could have gotten anyone to be a "US scholar". It doesn't make him any less of a nobody.
B. Holocaust Deniers make me sick and are beyond my comprehension.
there are plenty of nobodys in america that get attention in other parts of the world...
the thing is day we for the most part in america know the dude is a piece of shit, the problem is in the middle east he is preaching to the choir on the subject of jews, it only makes these folks think that there is a substantial amount of americans that agree with him and that gives them hope that one day jews will be pushed into the sea, and iam not really down with that, and i think that is deserving of at least a thread
there are millions of threads on here that are total garbage and inane subjects that should not even be given the server space, why is it that this subject should be dropped so quick?
is it because guzzo is involved?
And these types of stories make certain Americans think that all Iranians--and, by extension, many Persian-Americans--are all anti-semitic nutjobs. Just as I don't want to be judged by anything that Dubya does, I'm sure that there are many, many Iranians who feel the same way about Ahmadinejad.
Most media outlets--CNN definitely being one of them--like to paint in very broad brush strokes.
Having said that, holocaust deniers are, in a word, low.
In a word: usually.
It's true that CNN (and other mainstream media outlets) ignored the anti-AAhmadinejad rallies in response to the Holocause conference (there was one apparently at Teheran's major university.)
NY TIMES
December 14, 2006
News Analysis
Deep Roots of Denial for Iran???s True Believer
By MICHAEL SLACKMAN
CAIRO, Dec. 13 ??? Iran???s so-called Holocaust conference this week was billed as a chance to force the West to reconsider the historical record and, thereby, the legitimacy of Israel. But why would the Iranians invite speakers with so little credibility in the West, including a former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard and disgraced European scholars?
That question misses the point. Iran???s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, portrays participants like David Duke, the former Louisiana Klan leader, and Robert Faurisson of France, who has devoted his life to trying to prove that the Nazi gas chambers were a myth, as silenced truth-tellers whose stories expose Western leaders as the hypocrites he considers them to be.
Just as Soviet leaders used to invite Americans who suffered racial or political discrimination to Moscow to embarrass Washington, Mr. Ahmadinejad seems to enjoy pointing out that countries like Germany, France and Austria claim to champion free debate yet have made Holocaust denial illegal.
He has also repeatedly tried to draw a moral equivalency between questioning the Holocaust and the decision in Europe last year to publish cartoons lampooning the Prophet Muhammad. It wins him favor at home and across the Arab world for standing up to the West and allows him to present himself as morally superior to the West.
But there is another important point. Mr. Ahmadinejad actually seems to believe that the volumes of documentation, testimony and living memory of the Nazi genocide are at best exaggerated and part of a Zionist conspiracy to falsify history so as to create the case for Israel. [/b] As a former member of the Revolutionary Guards, he was indoctrinated with such thinking, a political analyst in Tehran said, and as a radical student leader, he championed such a view.
Now he has a platform to promote the theories ??? and to try to position himself regionally as the reasonable man who is asking hard questions.
The two-day meeting included no attempt to come to terms with the nature of the well-documented Nazi slaughter, offering only a platform to those pursuing the fantasy that it never happened. In addition, the organizers of the conference, a small circle around the president, have been building ties with neo-Nazi groups in Europe. [/b]
???He is connected to people in Iran who trust his way of doing things and who seriously believe the Holocaust did not take place,??? said Martin Ebbing, a German journalist in Tehran who has closely followed the president. ???They seriously believe it.???
Evidence of that came in a revealing interview last May with the German magazine Der Spiegel. The interviewer mostly wanted to discuss Iran???s nuclear ambitions and the government???s refusal to give up uranium enrichment, but the discussion kept returning to the Holocaust. At one point, the exasperated interviewer actually lectured the Iranian president on Germany???s culpability.[/b]
???In our view, there is no doubt that the Germans ??? unfortunately ??? bear the guilt for the murder of six million,??? the interviewer said to Mr. Ahmadinejad.
The president gave little ground, saying Germans should rid themselves of such guilt. ???I will only accept something as truth if I am actually convinced of it,??? he said.
Across the Middle East, contempt for Jews and Zionism is widespread and utterly mainstream. Many say the Holocaust has been wildly exaggerated and used to justify the creation of the Jewish state in 1948 at the expense of Palestinians, a move viewed as yet another example of Western imperialism.[/b]
Anti-Western rage fueled the 1979 Iranian revolution, and Mr. Ahmadinejad has tried to rekindle its energy by spreading Iran???s influence beyond its borders. Battling Washington, chiding Arab leaders and claiming to promote the Palestinian cause have made him extremely popular on the streets from Cairo to Morocco.
Such actions have also helped turn attention away from his inability so far to deliver on promises of economic populism, including a redistribution of wealth and greater social justice for the bulk of the country that is struggling to make ends meet.
The president???s ideas do not resonate in all corners of Iran, though, and some political scientists there say they have embarrassed officials who, even if they agree, do not want to see a focus on Holocaust denial further isolate Iran from Europe.[/b]
???I raise two questions about this conference,??? said Ahmad Shirzad, a reformist politician and former legislator. ???First, how much does this solve the problems our people are faced with? And secondly, which one of our goals were realized? It looks like he wants to make news and do provocative things.???
Others see an even more ambitious post-Iraq agenda reflected in Mr. Ahmadinejad???s high profile on the issues of Jews, the Holocaust and Israel.
???It is for public consumption in Arab countries,??? said Mustafa El-Labbad, editor of Sharqnameh, a magazine specializing in Iranian affairs and published in Cairo. ???It is specifically directed toward deepening the gap between the people and their regimes and toward embarrassing the rulers so that the regional power vacuum, especially after Iraq, can be filled by Iran.???
Mona el-Naggar contributed reporting from Cairo, and Nazila Fathi from Tehran.
there are a rainbow of reasons for people denying it, most hate jews in my opinion, i went to high school with a kids whos grandfather was a german soldier and because his grandfather denied it happened so does he, and there is a large number of conspiracy theory nuts that believe it was all made up by the bankers and probably some rothchild shit or something, you would have to pm that project blowed dude in texas about that
its anti-semitic semitic shit.
a few years back a book came out called the Leuchter Report It disputed that the Gas Chambers found at Auchwitz were not used for mass murder.
from wikipedia I found this paragraph which explains what Leuchter did better than I could
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_A._Leuchter#The_investigation_at_Auschwitz
His report helped spark conspiracy theorists and helped many hate groups justify their hatred of Jews and their complaining which they feel led to the creation of Israel.
here is a site on Leuchter
http://www.revisionists.com/leuchter/
there is also a documentary on him by Errol Morris that is incredibly fascinating
Not at all. I think it's because most people probably see duke in the same light and don't feel the need to pay him any mind.
Some could argue that you and Guzzo are being overly sensitive about no one giving a shit about him.
No one is saying "drop the subject", but how much more can you discuss?
david duke spoke at a conference saying what he always says, to people who the entire world knows feels the same way as him.
I'm not saying in any way that meeting was "no big deal" - Iran's president is an anti-semite and we need to keep them from getting nuclear weapons - this is not news to anyone though.
I don't know what more I can say. I'm AGREEING with everyone yet I feel I'm being painted as a bad guy for asking questions.
That said, I'm glad this is being talked about because you brought a perspective I would have probably missed:
I live in a town of 40K in eastern Canada where most people have never met a Jew or had any meaningful exposure to the Holocaust history. For them, Jews are people who are stingy, controlling, and either arch-capitalists or arch-communists depending on your political sympathies. Those who grew up with religious figures of a particular sort think Jews killed Christ and eat Christian babies. A Jew for most people is just a vague package of stereotypes.
So, when David Duke spouts off about the Zionist conspiracy, people don't necessarily dismiss his ideas. I think Guzzo is right to be concerned about the attention given to Duke and Holocaust deniers. Fortunately, CNN lambasted him.
On a personal note, having a grandmother who was literally in an Auschwitz gas chamber, Holocaust denial of any sort is deeply troubling.
"Doctor: He is fifty or fifty five years old. He is na??ve, well-dressed and has a polite look. He is a citizen of the USA and a Jew who has worked in the clinics of the region for years. He is an expert in his branch. Especially, he has worked in transplantation for the last few years. He has been sending the tissues such as kidneys and eye corneas which he takes from the dying prisoners to the west."
peace
h
Dude, just stop. He's a nutjob that's occasionally dragged out on TV for his entertainment value. And "getting" to speak with the Iranian government isn't exactly something that makes you less marginal.
Why don't you find a racist that actually weilds some sort of power or influence to get worked up over?
To hell with you guys.
I am sick and tired of being called anti-semetic by the Zionist radicals who dominate this board.
So I must be a conspiracy theroy David Duke supportor...
And you must belive everything that Pat Robertson and Jerry Fawell say.
wolf, do you believe that israel has a right to exist, or do you just have problems with israels policies towards its neighbors and palestine? are you for a two state solution?
I am for a 2 state solution. Israels right to exist is guaranteed. I support Palestine's right to exist which currently does not exist.
I think that religious states are bad public policy. At the same time I understand that most countries have official religions that often have great influence.
Since the goal of Israel was to assure the future safety of Jews we can see that it has been a miserable failure.
Perhaps those who argue so strongly for Israel secretly just want to round up all the Jews for easy annihilation.
lol
2001 = Bush becomes president.
BTW, without knowing who or what he represents, I've got to say that 'Wolf Blitzer' is a fucking cool name.
"Israel had done a lot of bad, but compared to what its neighbors have done to their people and surrounding regions, it's small potatoes."
Way to operate from the false assumption that most socially critical people don't condemn their neighbors' actions as well. "Well, the US is engaged in a whole bunch of imperialist pursuits and kills people left and right." As though the bulk of scholarly opponents to Zionism condone US foreign policy at large.
Quick question for the exponents of the above line of reasoning: Do you also contend that entire countries should be wiped off the map because "the Totalitarian leadership is oppressing its own people anyway?"
Further, Zionism is a militaristc movement that has, from the period of time shortly after its birth, waged a campaign of terror against the Indigenous Middle Eastern populations it has encountered. Before you open your mouths again (or type as the case may be), research Dir Yassin, research Folke Bernadotte (whose assasins were subsumed into Israeli mainstream politics-- the same hyopcrites, mind you, who were quick to indict the terrorism of Palestinians), the Irgun, the Haganah, Al Kakba.
Doomed to repeat the past? The past never left.
To be certain, there is propagandizing all along the political spectrum. Anti-Semitism is a very real and politically salient force. Further, I don't think that the mass influx of Jewish persons fleeing the Holocaust to Israel during WWII and the resulting displacement is universally subject to conventional moral assesment. . .for the same reason that I don't think Palestinian suicide bombing, while deeply lamentable is universally subject to convetional moral debate. That said, so many of the "informed" strutters on this board either don't even make an attempt to provide context, don't know what the fuck they're talking about, or an engaging in Obscurantism, plain and simple.
Al Nakba
NOT THIS ASSCLOWN AGAIN. THIS FOLL ONLY SHOWS UP IN ISRAEL-RELATED THREADS TO TALK SHIT. PEEP THE POST COUNT; AND THEY ARE ALL FROM THE LAST ISRAEL-RELATED THREAD A COUPLE MONTHS BACK. FUCKTARD: LEAVE THE BOARD.
lol.
You can peep the post count if you like. The fact that most of the posts are from the "Has Israel Gone Too Far" thread is just a testament to how involved that one was.
Posts about equipment, qustions about kung fu flicks and Boris Mancow records (which weren't answered, btw), and the American HC movie may be a little less contentious.
Come on, Haz. This is just absurd. The Zionist project was just that, A project started by a group of very determined people, the majority of whom were not self-hating Jews. They were Jews trying to fortify themselves and their communities against pervasive anti-semitism. It's very dangerous to make arguments of convenience.
I disagree with you on the right of return debate, in the same sense that if I embraced animism I don't think that would give me the right to return to West Africa and displace people currently living there. Nor would becoming Christian again secure my "right" to a villa in Rome. I do believe however that there is a huge cultural debt owed Jewish people by Europe and the states.
I do have huge problems with Israel's policies. Israel needs to stop treating Palestinians like dirt. What's going on there is plain horrible.
Iran, Hamas and Hizbollah make me sick.