the bar is nice...easily one of the better one's in this city. food is alright. drinks are good. atmosphere/design is classy...kind of weird for a "club" but great for your neighborhood bar.
however, for $25 dollars, nobody should be djing there. i'm assuming everybody djing there has 9-5s, etc., but it's not "community service" when dude is caking off you. i've been at that situation before and it sucks. i usually get resentful and don't even enjoy myself just off of gp.
if part of the money made was going to a cause or something, cool, but helping dude out with his startup cost is not the dj's job.
having no cover is great, but dude really needs to do some sort of split with the bar; he wouldn't be selling near as many drinks w/o the draw of the djs.
not to mention, djs 7 nights a week is his angle. dude's really shooting himself in the foot on this one.
Sticky, that place looks as hell. How many people do you get in there?
70-140 - but then noone can breathe in there no more. It's postmodern, yeah, but the funny thing is, I play what I want in there. And from barfights to girls getting dancing on the sofas, everything is possible...
What do you guys typically do when it comes to tipping the bar? I work at one place that won't take my money, at the other spot I always feel like they're expecting me to tip them at the end of the night. Now I'm not exactly making big bucks at this place. I'm the one playing the dope tunes, shouldn't they be tipping me?
I tip a buck or two over the course of my few hours there, but I don't drink much more than 1 or 2 beers. This is usually based on how much I like the bartender and how they treat me.
this place features DJs 7 nights a week. it's what makes them special. as such, dude needs to but some bank behind that part of his business.
As a sidenote, can we get an Icegrill Special for bars that have DJs on a regular basis but have sub-par soundsystems that either sound like shit and/or don't even work half the time? The roll call of my spots:
R******E (DJs every Thu-Sat) No turntables, CD players or mixer. Constant loud hum in soundsystem which is always configured differently every time due to one of the other DJs (who installed it) monkeying around with it on a regular basis. Owner acts like it's your fault whenever you ask him how you're supposed to plug into the new configuration this month, even though even he can't figure out how to get sound out of it half the time. 1 of the 4 main speakers hasn't worked for at least 9 months.
F*****L (DJs every other Thu, Fri, Sat) No turntables, CD players or mixer. Powered by a home stereo system, 4 nigh-unaudible tiny speakers throughout the bar, bartender/owner turns the music down half the time, and outside patio speakers don't work at all. Sometimes the main system doesn't work, period, unless bartender takes five minutes to figure out the problem. The last time this happened, the bartender was so busy and frustrated he told me to pack up my things and leave - PERMANENTLY - rather than take the time to plug me in. Of course, this was when I had an advertised out-of-town DJ with me, so my friend got to see how well I'm treated in my own venue.
J*****T (DJs every Tue-Sun) Good system w/ turntables, CD players & mixer. But bartenders won't turn it up, left speaker is in one room while right speaker is in another - NAGL for heavily panned records. When I DJ'd there, I had to bring along a stereo-to-mono adapter to work around it.
A***I (DJs every Tue-Sun) Good system w/ turntables, CD players & mixer. No complaints other than the right channel is almost inaudible. I mentioned it to the bartender at the end of the night and he said, "Yeah, it's pretty quiet. Not sure why" and left it at that.
25.00 is insulting for a spot that plans to feature DJs on the regular. And even worse, for a Friday night, you should MOST certainly be getting 100+ or a good percentage of the bar. I'd push the idea of a group talk with the owner.
What do you guys typically do when it comes to tipping the bar? I work at one place that won't take my money, at the other spot I always feel like they're expecting me to tip them at the end of the night. Now I'm not exactly making big bucks at this place. I'm the one playing the dope tunes, shouldn't they be tipping me?
I tip a buck or two over the course of my few hours there, but I don't drink much more than 1 or 2 beers. This is usually based on how much I like the bartender and how they treat me.
I've been pretty confused about his forever. Had many bartenders refuse tips. So I don't tip when I DJ anymore. I just doesn't feel right.
Hold on.
99% of the spots where I spin, I also come out to see other DJs and just hang out. So when I'm there I get friendly with the bartenders--make sure they know who I am and tip like a baller. 50% or up.
Plus I will rarely have more than 1 or 2 drinks over the course of the night when I DJ, but I'll put shit down when I'm hanging out.
In any case, see ya'll RVA dudes at Ipanema on Sept. 22 for another Scorpio Bros rematch.
Are you sitting in with them?
I didn't ask to spin any records, but it's possible that I'll end up doing so.
Also you should come up a day early and spin with me at the NY Deli
Wow, is this the place we're talking about? I'm thinking a Good DJ/Bad DJ routine on our part would be AGL.
"WHERE THE FUCK IS THE OWNER? I CAME ALL THE WAY UP FROM NORTH CAROLINA FOR TWELVE FUCKING DOLLARS? YOU TOOL, YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO NEEDS MONEY FOR BLOW!"
I usually use the $50 an hour / 2 hour minimum rule.
of course there's other factor's involved. If I have to bring anything other than records & headphones the price goes up. Guest DJing for friends, price goes down.
free drinks is a given, the bar staff is well taken care of with tips, which usually ensures free shots from the bartenders and beers when I'm empty while I'm spinning from the cocktail servers.
i agree, you gotta take good care of the entire bar staff w/tips, espcially in a small town like mine where the booking people from the top 3 venues drink together at the same bar.
15 years of playing in clubs has taught me a number of things one of which is that ultimately, YOU are responsible for how much $$$ you make in a night.
Weighing in factors such as fun, experience, crowd, door charges, relationship with owner/promoter, how broke you are, how rich you are, how good you are etc etc etc... this all affects your rate of pay.
Paying dues is at the core of being a DJ. Just how long you want to pay them is up to you.
15 years of playing in clubs has taught me a number of things one of which is that ultimately, YOU are responsible for how much $$$ you make in a night.
Weighing in factors such as fun, experience, crowd, door charges, relationship with owner/promoter, how broke you are, how rich you are, how good you are etc etc etc... this all affects your rate of pay.
Paying dues is at the core of being a DJ. Just how long you want to pay them is up to you.
I know im late on this but as a DJ, Bartender and Booking person for the club that I work for This is a very interesting subject for me . Its pretty complicated being so deeply imbedded into all the happenings but here goes....
To Secret Chimp and anyone concerned with Tipping the Staff:
From a the Servers perspective, not necessarily the Bartender, but generally the Servers want a tip from anyone they bring a drink too. If the waitress is bringing you your drinks while your playing it would be nice to throw her a buck or two at the end of the night or at the very least let her know you appreciate her going out of her way to bring you drinks when she DOES have tipping tables to attend to. But as a Bartender, Im not concerned with getting tips from the DJ if they are coming up to me to get them.
As for the being the booking person or middleman and dealing with Club Pay rate and Dj Comps.... This has been the most frustrating part of doing the booking at XV. Not only does my boss change his mind over and over again about perks, pay and policies but I'm generally closely affiliated with the DJ's because we are friends and acquaintances.
Since this guy is too big a pussy to confront you, he probably should have someone doing the booking and being the to go between.
I think $20 ( little city)- $40 (big city) an hour for a bar that doesn't/wont charge a cover is pretty fair. Having said that, perhaps you could get him to provide a flat rate of like I don't know..50-70? bucks for the night and/or 10% over X amount in bar sales.
So if they average $600 you get paid 60 not matter what but if they sale more than $700 you ge $70 and so forth. If its a weekend they should have a weekend rate that is basically twice as much both ways.
See, and if you end up making a couple hundred bucks then its not so bad to throw that waitress a fiver is it? But I do understand its different everywhere and in some places the Bar does Tip the DJ. This might depend on if the bar is charging a cover, if the Dj is getting a percentage, or its just plain obvious the DJ is making it all come together. I think a Tip jar at the booth is a great idea, especially if people are trying to make requests. Pay to Play!
And finally from the DJ perspective.... You go to the guy offering you $25 dollars and ask him if he would commute to HIS job with 80 elbows of Gear... and stand in place the whole time...not to mention bobbing your head and bouncing your knees, trying to ignore to dumb girls who ask for dumb songs, for a mere 4 hours in front of 100's or so people, whose happiness you are responsible for at any given moment, while drinking and not being able to fucking pee for $5 fucking dollars an hour? FUCK YOU! GIVE ME MY MONEY.
Anyhow...this is a NEW bar right?...and new places usually have a lot of hype and excitement going on so Dude probably thinks its more of that and isn't realizing the value of the DJ. He just thinks he has this hip new place and is probably stressing on the amount of debt he is in as well so he is cuttin corners and pinching pennies in some important places that he will obviously soon learn about.
If you want to play at the club and be a part of it coming up write him an email and give him some of the options mentioned here. I found if you have a problem with the way the owner is doing things its better to offer him some choices rather than just coming at him with some "this shit is wrong'' fuck you attitude. It be best to be like... this isnt working for us but if you did this or that we might be able to make it work..... anyhow...thats my angle from having a little something to do with every aspect.
thank you for sharing those various perspectives. this is more than a rant. i've decided to go ahead and step up. i called dude this afternoon and asked to meet with him. i went ahead and told it him was about the DJ pay. i told him a lot of DJs are talking and made lite of it referring to us a gossiping bitches. (wait, that's on point). he said he is definitely planning to pay more soon. i think the unfortunate thing here is that he's done a poor job communicating this to DJs. i'm also giving him the benefit of the doubt assuming he is simply swamped with everything--not being a pussy. re: returning emails.
bottom line is, i'm sure he could have sat down with the DJs and said...
"i'm really sorry about paying you the chump change. i know it's offensive in a way, but i really do appreciate you spinning here and I love your music. you can stick it out for the first 3 months while i get this going and pay off some major debts. or get back with me later when i can offer more money."
you know something like that?
the whole "i don't have to pay anything really, cause i got DJs who will spin for drinks" is stale weaksuace with maggots.
it's like telling your girl "i don't have to marry you, i can't just jack off."
A really small bar with no cover at the door me and my friend play for free (drinks for him and food for me is the only thing we make) It??s a very friendly place and only take 40-60 people. We like this because we can play the fuck we want etc...
The other place is one of the hippest places in town, a big nightclub, i play something like every third weekend from 24:00-05:00 (sometimes less) I get paid about $150 but you have to pay tax for that (or buy records for it and don??t pay tax hehe) plus all the free drinks i want and give some friends beer/drinks aswell. Very nice and professional but i??ve been playing at a lot of worse places in town. This place take $15 in the door and have 3 floors
bottom line is, i'm sure he could have sat down with the DJs and said...
"i'm really sorry about paying you the chump change. i know it's offensive in a way, but i really do appreciate you spinning here and I love your music. you can stick it out for the first 3 months while i get this going and pay off some major debts. or get back with me later when i can offer more money."
you know something like that?
Truth be told, 99% of all owners/promoters factor the DJ cost into the night as an expense. Unless the bar was doing REALLY REALLY badly (like 20 people max all night), there's no reason for him to pay a MINIMUM of $100. Tell him that as an expense, he can right that cost off against his taxes. But you have to step up and put your game face on too, feeling sorry for the guy isn't going to pay your phone bill.
Since this guy is too big a pussy to confront you, he probably should have someone doing the booking and being the to go between.
I was just refering to Mesh being paid by the employee at the end of the night instead of he owner when the owner knew he wanted to talk to him. But Yes, communication is the key and getting down with him on some level either email, phone or in person is the only way. Glad to hear he is communicating with you Fatback.
Again, I would come to him with a bunch of options and let him pick what he thinks will work best. Remind him that not only are you an employee but also the entertainment as well. Djs have so much invested in what they are doing but to most it looks so easy. If he is over loaded and stressed, having a booking person or entertainment manager might alieviate some of the worry on both ends. Less confrontational and probably not the kind of thing he wants to worry about anyways unless the core purpose of opening the club was about Music.
Comments
food is alright.
drinks are good.
atmosphere/design is classy...kind of weird for a "club" but great for your neighborhood bar.
however, for $25 dollars, nobody should be djing there.
i'm assuming everybody djing there has 9-5s, etc., but it's not "community service" when dude is caking off you. i've been at that situation before and it sucks. i usually get resentful and don't even enjoy myself just off of gp.
if part of the money made was going to a cause or something, cool, but helping dude out with his startup cost is not the dj's job.
having no cover is great, but dude really needs to do some sort of split with the bar; he wouldn't be selling near as many drinks w/o the draw of the djs.
not to mention, djs 7 nights a week is his angle.
dude's really shooting himself in the foot on this one.
This is a great point.
i was coming more at this statement (no Gov. Arnold)
Sticky, that place looks
70-140 - but then noone can breathe in there no more. It's postmodern, yeah, but the funny thing is, I play what I want in there. And from barfights to girls getting dancing on the sofas, everything is possible...
I tip a buck or two over the course of my few hours there, but I don't drink much more than 1 or 2 beers. This is usually based on how much I like the bartender and how they treat me.
As a sidenote, can we get an Icegrill Special for bars that have DJs on a regular basis but have sub-par soundsystems that either sound like shit and/or don't even work half the time? The roll call of my spots:
R******E (DJs every Thu-Sat)
No turntables, CD players or mixer. Constant loud hum in soundsystem which is always configured differently every time due to one of the other DJs (who installed it) monkeying around with it on a regular basis. Owner acts like it's your fault whenever you ask him how you're supposed to plug into the new configuration this month, even though even he can't figure out how to get sound out of it half the time. 1 of the 4 main speakers hasn't worked for at least 9 months.
F*****L (DJs every other Thu, Fri, Sat)
No turntables, CD players or mixer. Powered by a home stereo system, 4 nigh-unaudible tiny speakers throughout the bar, bartender/owner turns the music down half the time, and outside patio speakers don't work at all. Sometimes the main system doesn't work, period, unless bartender takes five minutes to figure out the problem. The last time this happened, the bartender was so busy and frustrated he told me to pack up my things and leave - PERMANENTLY - rather than take the time to plug me in. Of course, this was when I had an advertised out-of-town DJ with me, so my friend got to see how well I'm treated in my own venue.
J*****T (DJs every Tue-Sun)
Good system w/ turntables, CD players & mixer. But bartenders won't turn it up, left speaker is in one room while right speaker is in another - NAGL for heavily panned records. When I DJ'd there, I had to bring along a stereo-to-mono adapter to work around it.
A***I (DJs every Tue-Sun)
Good system w/ turntables, CD players & mixer. No complaints other than the right channel is almost inaudible. I mentioned it to the bartender at the end of the night and he said, "Yeah, it's pretty quiet. Not sure why" and left it at that.
I've been pretty confused about his forever. Had many bartenders refuse tips. So I don't tip when I DJ anymore. I just doesn't feel right.
Hold on.
99% of the spots where I spin, I also come out to see other DJs and just hang out. So when I'm there I get friendly with the bartenders--make sure they know who I am and tip like a baller. 50% or up.
Plus I will rarely have more than 1 or 2 drinks over the course of the night when I DJ, but I'll put shit down when I'm hanging out.
Are you sitting in with them?
Also you should come up a day early and spin with me at the NY Deli, then we can go on shopping spree the next AM with our respective $12.50s.
I didn't ask to spin any records, but it's possible that I'll end up doing so.
Wow, is this the place we're talking about? I'm thinking a Good DJ/Bad DJ routine on our part would be AGL.
"WHERE THE FUCK IS THE OWNER? I CAME ALL THE WAY UP FROM NORTH CAROLINA FOR TWELVE FUCKING DOLLARS? YOU TOOL, YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO NEEDS MONEY FOR BLOW!"
You only need to dj there 160 times and you will be able to get a copy of Boscoe.
of course there's other factor's involved. If I have to bring anything other than records & headphones the price goes up. Guest DJing for friends, price goes down.
free drinks is a given, the bar staff is well taken care of with tips, which usually ensures free shots from the bartenders and beers when I'm empty while I'm spinning from the cocktail servers.
Weighing in factors such as fun, experience, crowd, door charges, relationship with owner/promoter, how broke you are, how rich you are, how good you are etc etc etc... this all affects your rate of pay.
Paying dues is at the core of being a DJ. Just how long you want to pay them is up to you.
interesting subject for me . Its pretty complicated
being so deeply imbedded into all the happenings but here goes....
To Secret Chimp and anyone concerned with Tipping the Staff:
From a the Servers perspective, not necessarily the Bartender,
but generally the Servers want a tip from anyone they bring a drink too.
If the waitress is bringing you your
drinks while your playing it would be nice to throw her a buck or
two at the end of the night or at the very least let her know you
appreciate her going out of her way to bring you drinks when she
DOES have tipping tables to attend to. But as a Bartender, Im not
concerned with getting tips from the DJ if they are coming up to me to
get them.
As for the being the booking person or middleman and dealing with Club Pay rate
and Dj Comps.... This has been the most
frustrating part of doing the booking at XV. Not only does my boss
change his mind over and over again about perks, pay and policies but
I'm generally closely affiliated with the DJ's because
we are friends and acquaintances.
Since this guy is too big a pussy to confront you, he probably should have someone doing the booking and being the to go between.
I think $20 ( little city)- $40 (big city) an hour for a bar that
doesn't/wont charge a cover is pretty fair. Having said that, perhaps
you could get him to provide a flat rate of like I don't know..50-70?
bucks for the night and/or 10% over X amount in bar sales.
So if they average $600 you get paid 60 not matter what but if they
sale more than $700 you ge $70 and so forth. If its a weekend they should have
a weekend rate that is basically twice as much both ways.
See, and if you end up making a couple hundred bucks then its not so bad to
throw that waitress a fiver is it? But I do understand its different everywhere and in some places the Bar does Tip the DJ. This might depend on if the bar is charging a cover, if the Dj is getting a percentage, or its just plain obvious the DJ is making it all come together. I think a Tip jar at the booth is a great idea, especially if people are trying to make requests. Pay to Play!
And finally from the DJ perspective.... You go to the guy offering
you $25 dollars and ask him if he would commute to HIS job with 80
elbows of Gear... and stand in place the whole time...not to mention bobbing your head and bouncing your knees, trying to ignore to
dumb girls who ask for dumb songs, for a mere 4 hours in front
of 100's or so people, whose happiness you are responsible for at
any given moment, while drinking and not being able to fucking pee
for $5 fucking dollars an hour? FUCK YOU! GIVE ME MY MONEY.
Anyhow...this is a NEW bar right?...and new places usually have a
lot of hype and excitement going on so Dude probably thinks its more
of that and isn't realizing the value of the DJ. He just thinks he
has this hip new place and is probably stressing on the amount of
debt he is in as well so he is cuttin corners and pinching pennies
in some important places that he will obviously soon learn about.
If you want to play at the club and be a part of it coming up write him an email and
give him some of the options mentioned here. I found if you have a problem with the way the owner is doing things its better to offer him some choices rather than just coming at him with some "this shit is wrong'' fuck you attitude. It be best to be like... this isnt working for us but if you did this or that we might be able to make it work..... anyhow...thats my angle from having a little something to do with every aspect.
oh shit, do i hear the rumblings of unionizing? rise up, fellow djs!
bottom line is, i'm sure he could have sat down with the DJs and said...
"i'm really sorry about paying you the chump change. i know it's offensive in a way, but i really do appreciate you spinning here and I love your music. you can stick it out for the first 3 months while i get this going and pay off some major debts. or get back with me later when i can offer more money."
you know something like that?
the whole "i don't have to pay anything really, cause i got DJs who will spin for drinks" is stale weaksuace with maggots.
it's like telling your girl "i don't have to marry you, i can't just jack off."
A really small bar with no cover at the door me and my friend play for free (drinks for him and food for me is the only thing we make) It??s a very friendly place and only take 40-60 people. We like this because we can play the fuck we want etc...
The other place is one of the hippest places in town, a big nightclub, i play something like every third weekend from 24:00-05:00 (sometimes less) I get paid about $150 but you have to pay tax for that (or buy records for it and don??t pay tax hehe) plus all the free drinks i want and give some friends beer/drinks aswell. Very nice and professional but i??ve been playing at a lot of worse places in town. This place take $15 in the door and have 3 floors
Truth be told, 99% of all owners/promoters factor the DJ cost into the night as an expense. Unless the bar was doing REALLY REALLY badly (like 20 people max all night), there's no reason for him to pay a MINIMUM of $100.
Tell him that as an expense, he can right that cost off against his taxes. But you have to step up and put your game face on too, feeling sorry for the guy isn't going to pay your phone bill.
I was just refering to Mesh being paid by the employee at the end of the night instead of he owner when the owner knew he wanted to talk to him. But Yes, communication is the key and getting down with him on some level either email, phone or in person is the only way. Glad to hear he is communicating with you Fatback.
Again, I would come to him with a bunch of options and let him pick what he thinks will work best. Remind him that not only are you an employee but also the entertainment as well. Djs have so much invested in what they are doing but to most it looks so easy. If he is over loaded and stressed, having a booking person or entertainment manager might alieviate some of the worry on both ends. Less confrontational and probably not the kind of thing he wants to worry about anyways unless the core purpose of opening the club was about Music.
ZING!!!