Catcher is HELLA deep. Salinger & eastern philosophy. Very heavy reading.
No it's not.
I am but 17 years old and vividly remember reading "Catcher in The Rye: in 9th Grade English H. The majority of the class, myself included, agreed that it was the was the most engaging, relatable, and overall the best book we read all year. That said, As I Lay Dying was a great book, but one that my peers, I have found, do not appreciate at all. I'm not sure what grade you teach, but it seems to me that you need to focus less on what you consider essential reading to these students and perhaps take the advice of some outside sources and try develop a curriculum based on what seems to go over well with the students. nothing worse than being forced to read and be tested repeatedly on a novel that you are not at all enjoying. but hey, i'm just a teenager. what do I know.
What I wanna know is -- why does it matter if Dan Brown writes for people who don't normally read?
It doesn't matter to me, it's just not something I would read due to a litany of errors. It is poorly written, filled w/ plot holes and factual errors. I am not holding it to the standard of an educational textbook, but there is a line to be drawn. You can draw parrallels to any other medium out there, music, food, etc. I choose to appreciate and reward excellence (through my wallet) to those who put out work that is relevant to me.
I think you're discrediting youth today just a tad bit. There are certainly much better starting material for them to read than the authors you have stated.
The statement simply explains the demographic the book is catered to.
In all likelihood, those who gravitate towards Brown's book are less/not inclined to search out anything remotely resembling great literature, especially if it weren't the basis of a blockbuster movie-in-the-making... What's funny tho' is the amount of leeway afforded mediocre/subpar movies by a select audience (i.e. those on this board) who are more than predisposed to sneer @ a group like BEP and flex their more cultured tastes musically - the same paradigms one subscribes to w/ regards to music also holds firm w/ regards to film; and before dissenters decry that cinephilic snobs usually champion only foreign film, this doesn't just apply to cinema from other shores - I'd nominate 'Before Sunset' (and applauded by Ol*v*r in a recent blog entry on Soul-Sides) as an example of quality film (of recent vintage) from North America (albeit in the tradition of someone like Rivette)... And for the record, 'The Da Vinci Code' (both cinematically and printwise) possesses as much cultural value as BEP's output (from this vantage point) - as long as it's posited as convenient disposable pop culture, it's all good...
As for literature for today's youth, discussing the modus operandi of societal control vis-a-vis '1984' versus 'Brave New World' would prove at least somewhat enlightening, methinks... Neither title should prove daunting in content and/or style...
You brought up the depth of a piece of literature from the get-go, or at least implied it.
nope, depth was never in question. The focus is on literary quality. You know what they say when you "assume".
The depth of a piece of literature reaches down farther than what the writer is simply saying. It also involves craft. But I should have been more clear with this point.
Part of becoming a good reader is being able to analyze, compare, and synthesize information from various perspectives. By simply confining teen readers to books that meet a certain criteria, we would be creating worse readers.
Your logic is all over the place, I don't even know where to begin? Who said anything about confining? There are millions of books out there, impossible to plow through in one lifetime. Why not trim the weeds and read the cream of the crop?
You produced a laundry list of attributes explaining why Catcher is a good book for young readers to start with. What purpose does this list even serve if it's not providing a rationale of what books to choose? I'm not following your logic.
If your point was simply that those attributes will appeal to a teen reader, I can come up with any number of lists for other books with different attributes that teens find interesting. In other words, these lists are meaningless.
If depth or quality is not on the table, why do we need to eliminate any of the other authors I mentioned who students like?
Quality is on the table, I am not sure where you're forming all these imaginary points that I've not made. Albeit you have had a history of doing that on this board. Nobody is eliminating anything, rather, give kids more benefit of the doubt and offer them a choice. Don't pander to your perceived "lowest common denominator" and hand out Stephen King books to your students.
You've clearly misread what I'm saying.
If given a choice, students will choose Stephen King, Dan Brown, John Grisham, and Nicholas Sparks.
Unless you're actually suggesting that I made these conversations with my students up, I don't know what you're trying to prove!
Finally, just because Salinger isn't suffocating the reader w/ a 5 tier plot like Brown does, does not mean it's not "deep". The art of writing is being able to convey complex ideas in the simplest form, a talent that is not easily taught. Salinger is a master of this.
Less is more.
My best readers were the ones complaining about the simplicity of Salinger's novel.
Catcher is HELLA deep. Salinger & eastern philosophy. Very heavy reading.
No it's not.
I am but 17 years old and vividly remember reading "Catcher in The Rye: in 9th Grade English H. The majority of the class, myself included, agreed that it was the was the most engaging, relatable, and overall the best book we read all year. That said, As I Lay Dying was a great book, but one that my peers, I have found, do not appreciate at all. I'm not sure what grade you teach, but it seems to me that you need to focus less on what you consider essential reading to these students and perhaps take the advice of some outside sources and try develop a curriculum based on what seems to go over well with the students. nothing worse than being forced to read and be tested repeatedly on a novel that you are not at all enjoying. but hey, i'm just a teenager. what do I know.
I'm not trying to be mean-spirited towards you, but enjoying a book is separate from whether or not it's deep, which is what this whole thread is sorta about.
I don't know why both you and Aser are suggesting that I would foist books that I deem the best on students -- I don't think I've ever said this. From what I've observed, students need a choice, or at least a pool from which to choose from.
The biggest problem is getting around what the school board wants you to do. Sadly, sometimes autonomy is not possible.
this is getting pointless, you're not changing your POV, nor am I attempting to change yours. We have discerning opinions on this topic. I do not agree with you, simply put.
The list of attributes was simply used to illustrate Catcher In The Rye's appeal to students. I have no idea why you're taking it as an all encompassing list. You really have a hard time grasping posts here on a simple level. Points are always blown out of proportion and applied to your agenda.
My recommendation is for you to read shakezula808's post, to fully understand your demographic. You're really delving into semantics at this point if you're questioning the source of debate as "enjoyable" vs "deep". Totally getting sidetracked and losing focus of the main point.
da vinci code is a poorly written book, it is my opinion. You disagree, I'll leave it at that.
I have said my piece.
ps: Before Sunset is one of the best major studio films in years
My best readers were the ones complaining about the simplicity of Salinger's novel.
I guess I can see a kid thinking this book is simple. How many kids are going to have read the Bhagavad-Gita or know about Zen Koans? It prolly boils down to reference points. If I were going to teach this book to kids, I'd prolly read them excerpts from Rousseau's "Confessions" or Goethe's "Sorrows of Young Werther". The thing is, you don't have to be up on all this stuff to enjoy Catcher. I like it cause it's layered like that.
As for literature for today's youth, discussing the modus operandi of societal control vis-a-vis '1984' versus 'Brave New World' would prove at least somewhat enlightening, methinks... Neither title should prove daunting in content and/or style...
This has never really been the problem. It's getting the students to read the book that is, especially with such things as "Sparknotes" and "Cliffsnotes" out there.
One of my best students (class rank 8) brought in "Sparknotes" during class discussion instead of his book. I was like, "You gotta be fuckin kidding me."
Aser, I think Aaron makes a good point. If teens are choosing Dan Brown or nothing, better they read Dan Brown. Reading prompts thinking and use of imagination in ways other mediums can't.
Aaron, I think Aser makes a good point. If you're tying career success to the quality of literacy, you should expect succsessful students to be able to read more intelligent works than The Da Vinci Code. Reading these hack writers doesn't do much to promote critical thinking or widen anyone's perspective.
I think you're discrediting youth today just a tad bit. There are certainly much better starting material for them to read than the authors you have stated.
Where should they begin?
Crime & Punishment Anna Karenina The Cossacks Heart Of A Dog For Whom The Bell Tolls The Great Gatsby
Are you joking These books are near unreadable. Young adults should not be forced to slog through them.
There has never been better books for children and young adults than now. All three of Christopher Paul Curtis books are as good as anything on any shelf; Bud Not Buddy, Bucking The Sarge and The Watson Go To Birmingham, 1963.
Other books written at the same grade level as Davinci Code that are better for kids and young adults would include; Love That Dog, Millions, Because Of Winn Dixie, Holes and Harry Potter.
Older good reading for young adults would certainly include Catcher In The Rye, To Kill A Mocking Bird, Kurt Vonnegut, Herman Hesse, Lord Of The Rings.
I have nothing against mindless books that are read for enjoyment and suspense. I think of all the mindless books I've read Davinci Code is the worse. Worse than Grisham, worse than Dick Francis (who I like), worse than Creighton. The only thing I got me through Davinci Code was that I read the illustrated version and got to see pictures of the art and buildings. I've know a lot of people who really enjoyed it, I have no problem with that. I've never met anyone who thought it was well written.
Catcher is HELLA deep. Salinger & eastern philosophy. Very heavy reading.
No it's not.
I am but 17 years old and vividly remember reading "Catcher in The Rye: in 9th Grade English H. The majority of the class, myself included, agreed that it was the was the most engaging, relatable, and overall the best book we read all year. That said, As I Lay Dying was a great book, but one that my peers, I have found, do not appreciate at all. I'm not sure what grade you teach, but it seems to me that you need to focus less on what you consider essential reading to these students and perhaps take the advice of some outside sources and try develop a curriculum based on what seems to go over well with the students. nothing worse than being forced to read and be tested repeatedly on a novel that you are not at all enjoying. but hey, i'm just a teenager. what do I know.
I'm not trying to be mean-spirited towards you, but enjoying a book is separate from whether or not it's deep, which is what this whole thread is sorta about.
I don't know why both you and Aser are suggesting that I would foist books that I deem the best on students -- I don't think I've ever said this. From what I've observed, students need a choice, or at least a pool from which to choose from.
The biggest problem is getting around what the school board wants you to do. Sadly, sometimes autonomy is not possible.
I didn't mean any disrespect Mr. Aaron, and I was generalizing as far as implying you force students to read personal favorites, seeing as this has been my experience with most of my high school English teachers. What these teachers all fail to realize is that Being a good teacher consists of more than just broadening students' horizons as you see fit (again, not YOU, per say, but teachers in general). It requires a perceptive mind in that the teacher can determine what exactly is being enjoyed by the students, as well as a great deal of compassion. Not to be incredibly corny or nothing, but a good teacher teaches nearly as much from the heart as they do from the mind.
Older good reading for young adults would certainly include Catcher In The Rye, To Kill A Mocking Bird, Kurt Vonnegut, Herman Hesse, Lord Of The Rings.
I have read all the books you singled out as well as many by Vonnegut, but i've never heard of this Herman Hesse fellow. What would you recommend I read by him?
I have read all the books you singled out as well as many by Vonnegut, but i've never heard of this Herman Hesse fellow. What would you recommend I read by him?
I have read all the books you singled out as well as many by Vonnegut, but i've never heard of this Herman Hesse fellow. What would you recommend I read by him?
I have read all the books you singled out as well as many by Vonnegut, but i've never heard of this Herman Hesse fellow. What would you recommend I read by him?
You could start w/ 'Siddhartha' if so inclined...
or Steppenwolf or Demian. Incredible!
Huge cosign, esp on Steppenwolf, adding Journey To The East as well...
I have read all the books you singled out as well as many by Vonnegut, but i've never heard of this Herman Hesse fellow. What would you recommend I read by him?
You could start w/ 'Siddhartha' if so inclined...
or Steppenwolf or Demian. Incredible!
Huge cosign, esp on Steppenwolf, adding Journey To The East as well...
After working in a book store for many many years I would often find myself getting disappointed in people's "never-expanding taste" in books. However, for every 10 people who would read something like The Da Vinci Code and stop there, there would be 2 or 3 that would move on to greater things like Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco (IMO, one of the all time best pieces of literature that deals with things like the Knights Templar).
I think that overall books like Dan Brown's are fine if only because they might be the gateway drug to better reading.
By the way, for all you Hesse fans out there, have you checked out Glass Bead Game?
yer showing your ass Bobo. Hang-up your hang-ups and please have your students read Catcher in the Rye. It's a classic that is given to kids every year for the past 50+ years for a reason.
Finally, just because Salinger isn't suffocating the reader w/ a 5 tier plot like Brown does, does not mean it's not "deep". The art of writing is being able to convey complex ideas in the simplest form, a talent that is not easily taught.
yes. i have to say i am not understanding this notion that catcher in the rye is not deep. (but am not asking for further explanation either)
reading this thread again, i realize the that catcher in the rye and steppenwolf have many of the same (complex) themes. i would say that each book is as artful and well-written as the next.
shakezula - i would humbly suggest that you read steppenwolf by hesse if you were touched by holden caulfield's feelings of not fitting in, his quarrels with society's norms, struggles with mental illness and strained yet sustaining relationships with women.
other books about teens that contain universal themes and can still speak to and be enjoyed by adults are Lord of the Flies as someone already mentioned, Alan and Naomi by Myron Levoy, anything by Paul Zindel (especially The Effect of Gamma Rays on Man-in-the-Moon Marigolds and I Never Loved Your Mind), Daddy was a Number Runner by Louise Meriwether, The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison, I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou, That Was Then, This Is Now by SE Hinton and The Wars and The Last of the Crazy People by Timothy Findlay.
dan brown writes books for people who don't normally read.
Read what? Capital 'L' literature?
I say anything that facilitates the act of reading these days is a gift, considering how closely tied success is to one's reading level. Ask an English teacher how many of his or her students want to read a classic (I could only get about a fourth of my students to read one of the greatest novels ever written, As I Lay Dying) and he or she will tell you very few. Dan Brown, Nicholas Sparks, John Grisham, Stephen King all win favor with readers -- especially with young readers -- everytime.
What I wanna know is -- why does it matter if Dan Brown writes for people who don't normally read?
On one level, I have to agree with you that it's good to find people reading - I mean, many elementary school teachers are very pleased that something like "Harry Potter" has gotten kids away from TVs and video games and into books instead but personally, while I'm fully for "choosing your battles wisely" and accepting that you have to champion things you may not ideally want to as a compromise, the idea that Dan Brown is some kind of NECESSARY or even DESIRABLE entry point into literature makes me hella sad. I'm not directing this at you as a teacher or even a reader. I'm just saying: the book is really poorly written EVEN FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T NORMALLY READ.
"The Da Vinci Code" is one of the most blatant examples of how a great premise - Jesus fucked and had kids...word? - can overcome deficiencies in every other category of basic narrative and prose. I really like the idea behind the story but I couldn't finish the book. I got about halfway thru and was like, "I don't care how this is going to go...this is just a terribly written book" and mind you, I actually really like much of Tom Clancy's work (especially "Executive Decisions" which is one of my favorite beach reads of all time) and in general, am into "pop lit" so long as it doesn't completely insult my intelligence which, alas, "Da Vinci Code" does most egregiously.
I am on a Kazuo Ishiguro kick these days. Just read Never Let Me Go and Remains of the Day- each amazing in a totally different way.
I also just read Holes, because that's a favorite of my kids. Good stuff.
Stargirl is another great book I read with my students.
as far as this debate, I do think any reading is good reading, especially if it can be a gateway to actual literature. As someone who teaches 16-year-olds reading at a 1st or 2nd grade level, every word they read helps. I would ecstatic if any of my kids read DaVinci code. Is it some great work of art? No. But if makes someone pick up a book, great. They can read what they want. Who am I to look down my nose at them?
I thought 'The Historian' ended up being kind of a drag. I read a grip of vampire fiction, and while I thought adding all of that history was interesting, it ended up sucking all of the excitement out of the book.
BTW, the first time I read Catcher in the Rye, I was 14 and didn't like it. When I re-read it in college I ended up tearing through everything Salinger wrote in about two weeks. He's still one of my favorites.
Comments
I am but 17 years old and vividly remember reading "Catcher in The Rye: in 9th Grade English H. The majority of the class, myself included, agreed that it was the was the most engaging, relatable, and overall the best book we read all year. That said, As I Lay Dying was a great book, but one that my peers, I have found, do not appreciate at all. I'm not sure what grade you teach, but it seems to me that you need to focus less on what you consider essential reading to these students and perhaps take the advice of some outside sources and try develop a curriculum based on what seems to go over well with the students. nothing worse than being forced to read and be tested repeatedly on a novel that you are not at all enjoying. but hey, i'm just a teenager. what do I know.
In all likelihood, those who gravitate towards Brown's book are less/not inclined to search out anything remotely resembling great literature, especially if it weren't the basis of a blockbuster movie-in-the-making... What's funny tho' is the amount of leeway afforded mediocre/subpar movies by a select audience (i.e. those on this board) who are more than predisposed to sneer @ a group like BEP and flex their more cultured tastes musically - the same paradigms one subscribes to w/ regards to music also holds firm w/ regards to film; and before dissenters decry that cinephilic snobs usually champion only foreign film, this doesn't just apply to cinema from other shores - I'd nominate 'Before Sunset' (and applauded by Ol*v*r in a recent blog entry on Soul-Sides) as an example of quality film (of recent vintage) from North America (albeit in the tradition of someone like Rivette)... And for the record, 'The Da Vinci Code' (both cinematically and printwise) possesses as much cultural value as BEP's output (from this vantage point) - as long as it's posited as convenient disposable pop culture, it's all good...
As for literature for today's youth, discussing the modus operandi of societal control vis-a-vis '1984' versus 'Brave New World' would prove at least somewhat enlightening, methinks... Neither title should prove daunting in content and/or style...
The depth of a piece of literature reaches down farther than what the writer is simply saying. It also involves craft. But I should have been more clear with this point.
You produced a laundry list of attributes explaining why Catcher is a good book for young readers to start with. What purpose does this list even serve if it's not providing a rationale of what books to choose? I'm not following your logic.
If your point was simply that those attributes will appeal to a teen reader, I can come up with any number of lists for other books with different attributes that teens find interesting. In other words, these lists are meaningless.
You've clearly misread what I'm saying.
If given a choice, students will choose Stephen King, Dan Brown, John Grisham, and Nicholas Sparks.
Unless you're actually suggesting that I made these conversations with my students up, I don't know what you're trying to prove!
My best readers were the ones complaining about the simplicity of Salinger's novel.
I'm not trying to be mean-spirited towards you, but enjoying a book is separate from whether or not it's deep, which is what this whole thread is sorta about.
I don't know why both you and Aser are suggesting that I would foist books that I deem the best on students -- I don't think I've ever said this. From what I've observed, students need a choice, or at least a pool from which to choose from.
The biggest problem is getting around what the school board wants you to do. Sadly, sometimes autonomy is not possible.
The list of attributes was simply used to illustrate Catcher In The Rye's appeal to students. I have no idea why you're taking it as an all encompassing list. You really have a hard time grasping posts here on a simple level. Points are always blown out of proportion and applied to your agenda.
My recommendation is for you to read shakezula808's post, to fully understand your demographic. You're really delving into semantics at this point if you're questioning the source of debate as "enjoyable" vs "deep". Totally getting sidetracked and losing focus of the main point.
da vinci code is a poorly written book, it is my opinion. You disagree, I'll leave it at that.
I have said my piece.
ps: Before Sunset is one of the best major studio films in years
I guess I can see a kid thinking this book is simple. How many kids are going to have read the Bhagavad-Gita or know about Zen Koans? It prolly boils down to reference points. If I were going to teach this book to kids, I'd prolly read them excerpts from Rousseau's "Confessions" or Goethe's "Sorrows of Young Werther". The thing is, you don't have to be up on all this stuff to enjoy Catcher. I like it cause it's layered like that.
This has never really been the problem. It's getting the students to read the book that is, especially with such things as "Sparknotes" and "Cliffsnotes" out there.
One of my best students (class rank 8) brought in "Sparknotes" during class discussion instead of his book. I was like, "You gotta be fuckin kidding me."
2) The only agenda I see getting pushed here is your own. I'm not the one telling kids to stop reading what they like.
3) I had 100+ shakezula808s this last semester, so I know the demographic very well, thank you very much.
Aaron, I think Aser makes a good point. If you're tying career success to the quality of literacy, you should expect succsessful students to be able to read more intelligent works than The Da Vinci Code. Reading these hack writers doesn't do much to promote critical thinking or widen anyone's perspective.
Are you joking
There has never been better books for children and young adults than now.
All three of Christopher Paul Curtis books are as good as anything on any shelf; Bud Not Buddy, Bucking The Sarge and The Watson Go To Birmingham, 1963.
Other books written at the same grade level as Davinci Code that are better for kids and young adults would include; Love That Dog, Millions, Because Of Winn Dixie, Holes and Harry Potter.
Older good reading for young adults would certainly include Catcher In The Rye, To Kill A Mocking Bird, Kurt Vonnegut, Herman Hesse, Lord Of The Rings.
I have nothing against mindless books that are read for enjoyment and suspense. I think of all the mindless books I've read Davinci Code is the worse. Worse than Grisham, worse than Dick Francis (who I like), worse than Creighton. The only thing I got me through Davinci Code was that I read the illustrated version and got to see pictures of the art and buildings. I've know a lot of people who really enjoyed it, I have no problem with that. I've never met anyone who thought it was well written.
I didn't mean any disrespect Mr. Aaron, and I was generalizing as far as implying you force students to read personal favorites, seeing as this has been my experience with most of my high school English teachers. What these teachers all fail to realize is that Being a good teacher consists of more than just broadening students' horizons as you see fit (again, not YOU, per say, but teachers in general). It requires a perceptive mind in that the teacher can determine what exactly is being enjoyed by the students, as well as a great deal of compassion. Not to be incredibly corny or nothing, but a good teacher teaches nearly as much from the heart as they do from the mind.
I have read all the books you singled out as well as many by Vonnegut, but i've never heard of this Herman Hesse fellow. What would you recommend I read by him?
You could start w/ 'Siddhartha' if so inclined...
or Steppenwolf or Demian. Incredible!
Huge cosign, esp on Steppenwolf, adding Journey To The East as well...
BENEATH THE WHEEL
his short stories are very good as well. some are near-perfect imo.
I think that overall books like Dan Brown's are fine if only because they might be the gateway drug to better reading.
By the way, for all you Hesse fans out there, have you checked out Glass Bead Game?
I think you should read it again.
yes. i have to say i am not understanding this notion that catcher in the rye is not deep. (but am not asking for further explanation either)
reading this thread again, i realize the that catcher in the rye and steppenwolf have many of the same (complex) themes. i would say that each book is as artful and well-written as the next.
shakezula - i would humbly suggest that you read steppenwolf by hesse if you were touched by holden caulfield's feelings of not fitting in, his quarrels with society's norms, struggles with mental illness and strained yet sustaining relationships with women.
other books about teens that contain universal themes and can still speak to and be enjoyed by adults are Lord of the Flies as someone already mentioned, Alan and Naomi by Myron Levoy, anything by Paul Zindel (especially The Effect of Gamma Rays on Man-in-the-Moon Marigolds and I Never Loved Your Mind), Daddy was a Number Runner by Louise Meriwether, The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison, I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou, That Was Then, This Is Now by SE Hinton and The Wars and The Last of the Crazy People by Timothy Findlay.
On one level, I have to agree with you that it's good to find people reading - I mean, many elementary school teachers are very pleased that something like "Harry Potter" has gotten kids away from TVs and video games and into books instead but personally, while I'm fully for "choosing your battles wisely" and accepting that you have to champion things you may not ideally want to as a compromise, the idea that Dan Brown is some kind of NECESSARY or even DESIRABLE entry point into literature makes me hella sad. I'm not directing this at you as a teacher or even a reader. I'm just saying: the book is really poorly written EVEN FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T NORMALLY READ.
"The Da Vinci Code" is one of the most blatant examples of how a great premise - Jesus fucked and had kids...word? - can overcome deficiencies in every other category of basic narrative and prose. I really like the idea behind the story but I couldn't finish the book. I got about halfway thru and was like, "I don't care how this is going to go...this is just a terribly written book" and mind you, I actually really like much of Tom Clancy's work (especially "Executive Decisions" which is one of my favorite beach reads of all time) and in general, am into "pop lit" so long as it doesn't completely insult my intelligence which, alas, "Da Vinci Code" does most egregiously.
And I'm sorry, but Holden Caulfield's story was told much better in Peter Pan. Yes, you read that correctly.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43680-2004Oct18.html
I am on a Kazuo Ishiguro kick these days. Just read Never Let Me Go and Remains of the Day- each amazing in a totally different way.
I also just read Holes, because that's a favorite of my kids. Good stuff.
Stargirl is another great book I read with my students.
as far as this debate, I do think any reading is good reading, especially if it can be a gateway to actual literature. As someone who teaches 16-year-olds reading at a 1st or 2nd grade level, every word they read helps. I would ecstatic if any of my kids read DaVinci code. Is it some great work of art? No. But if makes someone pick up a book, great. They can read what they want. Who am I to look down my nose at them?
I thought 'The Historian' ended up being kind of a drag. I read a grip of vampire fiction, and while I thought adding all of that history was interesting, it ended up sucking all of the excitement out of the book.
BTW, the first time I read Catcher in the Rye, I was 14 and didn't like it. When I re-read it in college I ended up tearing through everything Salinger wrote in about two weeks. He's still one of my favorites.