Immigration Myths vs. Facts
mannybolone
Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
Interesting info being put out by the justiceforimmigrats.org, though almost all of their information is sourced from third party sources, including gov't studies. If anyone has contradictory data to refute some of these "Facts" I'd like to see them - I'm not saying that as a challenge, I'd just like to see where the opposition is drawing their information from. Myths vs. Facts: Commonly used attacks against immigrantsFACT: Immigrants pay taxes, in the form of income, property, sales, and taxes at the federal and state level. As far as income tax payments go, sources vary in their accounts, but a range of studies find that immigrants pay between $90 and $140 billion a year in federal, state, and local taxes. Undocumented immigrants pay income taxes as well, as evidenced by the Social Security Administrations suspense file (taxes that cannot be matched to workers names and social security numbers), which grew by $20 billion between 1990 and 1998.(Source: http://www.immigrationforum.org/about/articles/tax_study.htm)FACT: Immigrants come to work and reunite with family members. Immigrant labor force participation is consistently higher than native-born, and immigrant workers make up a larger share of the U.S. labor force (12.4%) than they do the U.S. population (11.5%). Moreover, the ratio between immigrant use of public benefits and the amount of taxes they pay is consistently favorable to the U.S. In one estimate, immigrants earn about $240 billion a year, pay about $90 billion a year in taxes, and use about $5 billion in public benefits. In another cut of the data, immigrant tax payments total $20 to $30 billion more than the amount of government services they use.[/b](Source: Questioning Immigration Policy Can We Afford to Open Our Arms?, Friends Committee on National Legislation Document ..G-606-DOM, January 25, 1996. http: www.fas.org/pub/gen/fcnl/immigra.html)[Note: this remains one of the biggest areas of contention. The fact that they have to draw on estimates with wildly different numbers either suggests 1) we don't really know and don't have a reliable way of measuring/parsing this data or 2) it's very selective use of data. That said, I followed the source back: the numbers the throw out here are based on a Business Week article from 1993 so even if the ratio is accurate, the numbers are likely different now in 2006.]Myth: IMMIGRANTS SEND ALL THEIR MONEY BACK HOMEFACT: In addition to the consumer spending of immigrant households, immigrants and their businesses contribute $162 billion in tax revenue to U.S. federal, state, and local governments. While it is true that immigrants remit billions of dollars a year to their home countries, this is one of the most targeted and effective forms of direct foreign investment.(Source: http://www.cato.org/research/articles/griswold-020218.html.)Myth: IMMIGRANTS TAKE JOBS AWAY FROM AMERICANS...FACT: The largest wave of immigration to the U.S. since the early 1900s coincided with our lowest national unemployment rate and fastest economic growth. Immigrant entrepreneurs create jobs for U.S. and foreign workers, and foreign-born students allow many U.S. graduate programs to keep their doors open. While there has been no comprehensive study done of immigrant-owned businesses, we have countless examples: in Silicon Valley, companies begun by Chinese and Indian immigrants generated more than $19.5 billion in sales and nearly 73,000 jobs in 2000.(Source: Richard Vedder, Lowell Gallaway, and Stephen Moore, Immigration and Unemployment: New Evidence, Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, Arlington, VA (Mar. 1994), p. 13.[Note: Again, I would have preferred to see data collected more recently than 1994]Myth: IMMIGRANTS ARE A DRAIN ON THE ECONOMYFACT: During the 1990s, half of all new workers were foreign-born, filling gaps left by native-born workers in both the high- and low-skill ends of the spectrum. Immigrants fill jobs in key sectors, start their own businesses, and contribute to a thriving economy. The net benefit of immigration to the U.S. is nearly $10 billion annually. As Alan Greenspan points out, 70% of immigrants arrive in prime working age. That means we havent spent a penny on their education, yet they are transplanted into our workforce and will contribute $500 billion toward our social security system over the next 20 years(Source: Andrew Sum, Mykhaylo Trubskyy, Ishwar Khatiwada, et al., Immigrant Workers in the New England Labor Market: Implications for Workforce Development Policy, Center for Labor Market Studies, Northeastern University, Boston, Prepared for the New England Regional Office, the Employment and Training Administration, and the U.S. Department of Labor, Boston, Massachusetts, October 2002.http://www.nupr.neu.edu/1102/immigration...sity%20studies' )Myth: IMMIGRANTS DONT WANT TO LEARN ENGLISH OR BECOME AMERICANSFACT: Within ten years of arrival, more than 75% of immigrants speak English well; moreover, demand for English classes at the adult level far exceeds supply. Greater than 33% of immigrants are naturalized citizens; given increased immigration in the 1990s, this figure will rise as more legal permanent residents become eligible for naturalization in the coming years. The number of immigrants naturalizing spiked sharply after two events: enactment of immigration and welfare reform laws in 1996, and the terrorist attacks in 2001.(Source: American Immigration Lawyers Association, Myths & Facts in the Immigration Debate, 8/14/03. http://www.aila.org/contentViewer.aspx?bc=17,142..section4 )(Source: Simon Romero and Janet Elder, Hispanics in the US Report Optimism New York Times, (Aug. 6, 2003).Myth: TODAY'S IMMIGRANTS ARE DIFFERENT THAN THOSE 100 YEARS AGOFACT: The percentage of the U.S. population that is foreign-born now stands at 11.5%; in the early 20th century it was approximately 15%. Similar to accusations about todays immigrants, those of 100 years ago initially often settled in mono-ethnic neighborhoods, spoke their native languages, and built up newspapers and businesses that catered to their fellow migrs. They also experienced the same types of discrimination that todays immigrants face, and integrated within American culture at a similar rate. If we view history objectively, we remember that every new wave of immigrants has been met with suspicion and doubt and yet, ultimately, every past wave of immigrants has been vindicated and saluted.(Source: Census Data: http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/c2kprof00-us.pdf,http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/censr-4.pdf )Myth: MOST IMMIGRANTS CROSS THE BORDER ILLEGALLYFACT: Around 75% of todays immigrants have legal permanent (immigrant) visas; of the 25% that are undocumented, 40% overstayed temporary (non-immigrant) visas. Undocumented immigrants estimated to be less than 2% of the US population.(Source: Department of Homeland Security (http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/statistics/index.htm)FACT: From 1986 to 1998, the Border Patrols budget increased six-fold and the number of agents stationed on our southwest border doubled to 8,500. The Border Patrol also toughened its enforcement strategy, heavily fortifying typical urban entry points and pushing migrants into dangerous desert areas, in hopes
of deterring crossings. Instead, the undocumented immigrant population doubled in that timeframe, to 8 milliondespite the legalization of nearly 3 million immigrants after the enactment of the Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986. Insufficient legal avenues for immigrants to enter the U.S., compared with the number of jobs in need of workers, has significantly contributed to this current conundrum.(Source: Immigration and Naturalization website: http://www.ncjrs.org/ondcppubs/publications/enforce/border/ins_3.html)Myth: THE WAR ON TERRORISM CAN BE WON WITH IMMIGRANT RESTRICTIONSFACT: No security expert since September 11th, 2001 has said that restrictive immigration measures would have prevented the terrorist attacksinstead, the key is effective use of good intelligence. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were here on legal visas. Since 9/11, the myriad of measures targeting immigrants in the name of national security have netted no terrorism prosecutions. In fact, several of these measures could have the opposite effect and actually make us less safe, as targeted communities of immigrants are afraid to come forward with information.(Source: Associated Press/Dow Jones Newswires, US Senate Subcommittee Hears Immigration Testimony, Oct. 17, 2001.)(Source: Cato Institute: Dont Blame Immigrants for Terrorism, Daniel Griswold, Assoc. Director of Cato Institutes Center for Trade Policy Studies (see: http://www.cato.org/dailys/10-23-01.html)Information provided by: http://www.justiceforimmigrants.org
of deterring crossings. Instead, the undocumented immigrant population doubled in that timeframe, to 8 milliondespite the legalization of nearly 3 million immigrants after the enactment of the Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986. Insufficient legal avenues for immigrants to enter the U.S., compared with the number of jobs in need of workers, has significantly contributed to this current conundrum.(Source: Immigration and Naturalization website: http://www.ncjrs.org/ondcppubs/publications/enforce/border/ins_3.html)Myth: THE WAR ON TERRORISM CAN BE WON WITH IMMIGRANT RESTRICTIONSFACT: No security expert since September 11th, 2001 has said that restrictive immigration measures would have prevented the terrorist attacksinstead, the key is effective use of good intelligence. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were here on legal visas. Since 9/11, the myriad of measures targeting immigrants in the name of national security have netted no terrorism prosecutions. In fact, several of these measures could have the opposite effect and actually make us less safe, as targeted communities of immigrants are afraid to come forward with information.(Source: Associated Press/Dow Jones Newswires, US Senate Subcommittee Hears Immigration Testimony, Oct. 17, 2001.)(Source: Cato Institute: Dont Blame Immigrants for Terrorism, Daniel Griswold, Assoc. Director of Cato Institutes Center for Trade Policy Studies (see: http://www.cato.org/dailys/10-23-01.html)Information provided by: http://www.justiceforimmigrants.org
Comments
I was looking for the FACT of where immigrants do the jobs that americans won't do. Which IMO, is bullshit.
As far as the facts posted above. Nobody really knows true numbers one way or the other. Probably taking a number somewhere in the middle is best.
I'm guessing, this will be a WAY bigger deal once elections roll around.
One thing. If I was heading up pro immigration groups, I would really try to distance myself from other certain groups. Namely pro mexican fractions and the far anti-war movement.
All this clatter is the sound of the middle class disappearing.
It reminds me of how the rich southern whites used to play the poor whites off the blacks. Take your average Joe Republican minutemen supporter. They have more in common with the dude who's coming up from Tultitlan every year to build houses than EVERY single Republican elected official, candidate and pundit since forever.
So I guess you have to get something for your support and vote since you don't have any dividends or capital gains?
What makes you say that? You don't think there there's entire areas of employment where immigrant labor is willing to work at lower pay and longer hours than most Americans - raised with at least a basic expectation of minimum wage and a 40 hour work week - would balk at?
I think collecting data on these kind of things are challening but saying, "nobody really knows true numbers" is a cop-out and basically allows people to throw out any kind of attempt at statistical analysis and instead, rely on such time-honored reliable methods such as "gut" and "common sense" and "intuition." Sorry, but I'd rather see both sides of the political line tug-of-war with actual data than a bunch of people making claims based on nothing more than personal observation.
Ha - welcome to the modern Left.
REP's in the south back in the day??? I hope ur not imply to say that the DEM's were the good guys in the south back in the day.
Well said F****.
It's not that Americans won't do the same jobs, it's just that they won't do them for below minimum wage and without benefits or any legal protections.
Not at all.
Is this actually true though? I know the disparity between rich and poor is widening and presumably, if the number of Americans under the poverty rate are increasing, they're probably coming from people on the lower middle class end who are falling lower. That said, I thought the numbers for the middle class were still pretty solid.
I'm not saying there is anywhere near a majority. But there are illegal immigrants that make some OK money. I just saw something on CNN where they did a thing on dudes working in construction making $150 bucks a day. I'm not saying there arn't people working for chump change in the fields or something. Just don't tell me there aren't some really poor americans out there that won't work for $6-7 bucks an hour to work in a restaurant. When I moved to the US (Following all the laws & rules) I worked for $5.00 an hour. Was it a bitch? Yes, but I followed the rules and laws set out. So do millions of people that come to the US and try to gain citizenship legally.
I'm just saying that both sides of the argument are going to throw out numbers that make their cause sound good. I just find it's sometimes better to just average it out. Because really, how can you come up with figures when you (in truth) have no idea what the true numbers of illegals are in the country. Some say 11 million, some say 20 million. Nobody really knows the true number. So how can you come up with any kind of real statistical data?
This would be an issue if everyone making six bucks busing tables was qualified to frame houses or install insulation (which is what a large percentage of the undocumented workers in the housing industry do). Being a US citizen doesn't automatically qualify you to do any job that an undocumented worker is doing. All that aside from that fact that the guy "making $150 a day" probably doesn't have any insurance or protection of any kind if he falls off a roof and breaks his neck.
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Family flees to stay together
Married couple scheduled to be deported to different countries secretly fly to Lisbon with son, 4 Canada `doesn't have the right to separate me from my family,' Jaime Ledo says
Apr. 24, 2006. 04:47 AM
ISABEL TEOTONIO
STAFF REPORTER
Jaime Ledo and his wife, Viviane Souza, breathed a deep sigh of relief yesterday when they stepped off a plane in Lisbon, weeks after learning they were to be deported to separate countries.
"We're all together," said a jubilant Ledo, after arriving in Portugal with his wife, who is six months pregnant, and their 4-year-old son, Jimmy.
"Everything is beautiful ??? there were no problems coming over and we're together as a family."
The outcome could have been different had the couple not carefully planned their own destiny.
The pair, who had toiled in Toronto's underground economy for years, say they were told by immigration authorities on April 6 that they would be deported May 12 ??? he to his native Portugal and she to her native Brazil.
Fearful of separating the family, they went to the Portuguese Consulate in Toronto and were assured that Portugal would accept Souza. The couple then pleaded with their expulsion officer to let them both return to Portugal. They explained Souza would be allowed entry in Portugal, offered to pay for their own flights and promised to leave before May 12.
But, to their dismay, they were told that immigration regulations would not allow it. Under forced removal orders, people must be returned to their country of birth, citizenship or last residence. And in Souza's case, that was Brazil.
So rather than have their family split up, Ledo, 30, and Souza, 29, devised a plan that would let them leave together.
"Canada has every right to say that we have to go," said Ledo, "but it doesn't have the right to separate me from my family."
With the May 12 deportation date looming, they had to act quickly. Their first challenge was to secure seats for themselves and their son on the first available flight to Lisbon.
Next, came a greater hurdle: getting new passports in time. Because their old ones had been confiscated earlier by Immigration authorities and would only be returned to them at the airport on May 12, they each went to their respective consulates and were able to get new ones.
Late last week, with just days to go before their Saturday night flight, both Souza and Ledo picked up their new passports. Ledo actually picked his up on Friday morning, before heading to Queen's Park for a rally in support of undocumented workers, which drew a crowd of about 1,000 people.
Demonstrators called on the federal Conservative government to stop deporting illegal immigrants. It's estimated there are about 200,000 people of various nationalities living illegally in Canada. The recent deportations of those within Toronto's Portuguese community ??? estimated to have about 15,000 illegal workers ??? garnered great attention because many work in the booming construction industry, which is suffering a skilled trade shortage.[/b]
It was at the rally that the Star first met Ledo, Souza and Jimmy, who gleefully waved a Canadian flag. The couple told reporters there that Immigration Canada was planning to deport them on May 12, each to their own country. Jimmy, they said, would likely return with his mom to Brazil.
What the Star later learned was that they were secretly planning to leave Toronto on a Lisbon-bound flight the next night.
"I don't think I did anything wrong ??? there was just no other way to keep my family together," Ledo said in Portuguese, during a telephone interview yesterday from his sister's home in the town of Abrantes, located northeast of Lisbon.
"I tried to work with the authorities, I argued with them, pleaded with them and did everything so that we could leave together," said Ledo, who plans to notify Canadian authorities today about his family's whereabouts.
In addition to all the logistics in planning their sudden departure, their final weeks here were filled with the usual sadness and chaos experienced by others who face deportation: tearful goodbyes to friends and family while packing up all of their belongings.
"I had to leave everything that I had built up over 10 years in a matter of two weeks," said Ledo, who came to Canada in 1997 from the Azores to work in Toronto's construction industry. In recent years, he and a partner have been running a successful roofing company in Toronto that employs 10 people.
Souza, originally from Sao Paulo, came to Canada in 1999 and worked as a hotel maid. Both entered the country as visitors and decided to stay in Toronto, where they eventually met and married in 2000.
In 2001, an immigration consultant advised the pair to apply for landed immigrant status based on humanitarian and compassionate grounds. They were denied. Then, she urged them to apply for refugee status. Again, they were denied. She then told them to apply again on humanitarian and compassionate grounds, promising they'd get status. Instead, what they got was an order for removal. The bad advice ended up costing them more than $5,000.
"They'll say whatever is necessary so you believe them," said Ledo of unscrupulous immigration consultants.
"I did everything right ??? I paid taxes, I never got in trouble with the police, I worked hard and lived my life with my family. And for that, the government wants me out," said Ledo. "Everything I earned in Canada was kept in Canada ??? I rented a house, I had a car and my wife had a car. That's why I find this whole thing really stupid ??? the government is deporting people who are contributing to the country."
But despite everything that has happened, he and his wife want to return, but this time, legally.
Ledo said he plans to spend the next few weeks getting his wife and son Portuguese citizenship and inquiring how to apply for a temporary worker program.
As to what to future holds, neither Ledo nor Souza have a clue. But they hope is that it will be in Canada, which they consider their home.
What's true?
You have to ask yourself why we seemed to pick on certain ethnic immigrant groups (Chinese, Italian, Irish, Mexican, etc.) from time to time under this rubric of immigration. One consistent correlate has been downward trends in the economy and decreased feelings (whether real or imagined) of job security.
If you really look at US history, you can argue that this country is, by its very nature, a perpetual immigration issue. So get over it.
At the same time, we were the first, and for many years, the only country with a majority middle class. I would argue that is what makes this a great place.
Not gone.
contradicts
Maybe for someone in the middle class. But seriously. Are there really poor people in the US that won't work for $6-7 bucks an hour straight up? I'm not saying it's right or fair, just that I don't really believe there are none.
It's like this. When I was going to school in Arizona, there were a few guys in my classes that were illegal. Really hard working (In class anyway, so I would guess on the job too) who would laugh at the fact that I came from Canada and was making $5 bucks an hour on campus. Two of them told me they could hook me up with jobs for around 10 bucks under the table. I'm sure there would be more than a few americans who would have taken the job.
I don't wanna come off as anti-immigration tho guys. Cause in truth, immigration keeps a country moving. I just don't believe that just giving amnesty is a great idea. Proper legal immigration is IMO the best way to do things. I also believe that companies should be forced to not hire illegals and also pay people proper livable wages. And I also believe that in reality, people should be marching on their own countries capitals, trying to force them to make things better at home.
Yeah, Canadian immigration needs a major revamp also.
They have really seemed to go after the portuguese community lately for some strange reason. But maybe thats just what the media is reporting.
This is the most offensive thing I hear repeated...please stop.
1)It assumes that every Mexican is only capapble of scrubbing toilets or picking lettuce--as if none of them have any kind of skills or training.
2)There are no Americans willing to do "these jobs" which, again, represent a wide array and often pay better than working at Walmart.
A widening disparity between rich and poor does not equate to a disappearing middle class. One of the historical functions (not the only one, but an important one) of the middle class in industrialized societies has been to act as a buffer zone between rich and poor. Therefore, if there is a growing disparity b/t the very poor and very rich, it actually would serve the interests of the very rich to ensure that the middle class is stable, thereby insulating them (the very rich) from potential revolutionary warfare being sparked by the very poor.
Dor:
I think this is where data would actually be useful since you can quantify (more easily) the number of $6/hour jobs out there and who's working them.
There are Americans who will work for minimum wage, but most employers prefer immigrants because A) they work harder, B) they can get away with treating them like shit, and C) no paperwork + no documentation= no liability.
If we really need to crack down on immigration, ok, lets do it. But, i don't think you should send back the people who are already here and have established a life.
The whole concept of a "guest worker" program is assinine. When was the last time you invited someone over as a "guest" and told them they could only stay if they cleaned the toilet (bill maher's analogy). Its almost inhumane to allow immigrants to be here temporarily, so long as they do our dirty work. If immigrants are going to be here, they need to have the same rights as all americans.
Oliver, that is certainly one perfectly legitimate way to look at it.
I take the widening disparity as one indicator of the shrinking middle class. It concerns me because, as I said above, a strong middle class has been very good for this country.
I think you make some generalizations above that would stand to be strengthened a bit (such as the suggestion that immigrants work harder than Americans. That may or may not be true - I don't know how you would measure it in any case).
That said, I think one thing you're pointing out here isn't so much that immigrant labor displaces jobs that might otherwise go to citizens - it's also that employers would prefer to hire immigrant labor over citizens for a variety of reasons - liability being just one of them.
Therefore, instead of saying that "immigrants TAKE jobs" I think it's more accurate to say that "immigrants are OFFERED jobs" that other Americans aren't. That pushes more of the culpability onto employers.
In any case, I still think this idea that immigrant labor is displacing American workers is largely a red herring. I think Motown posted this up before but if you look at the rates of high immigration, they tend to coincide with periods of low unemployment rates.
Unemployment in below 5%, which is very low. Why should someone work washing dishes when there are bussing jobs? Why sheetrock when there are finish carpentry jobs?
Of course undocumented workers give these employers other benifits. No worker comp claims for one.
There are very few people in this country -in either party- that oppose LEGAL immigration. There are many facts presented in this piece that most definitely support LEGAL immigration.
However, the debate with in the US, all the protesting and so on, is only about ILLEGAL immigration.
This piece that you have posted serves only to confuse and blur the lines between those people that choose to follow the laws of the US and follow LEGAL immigration protocol, and those that choose to not acknowledge US laws and cross the border and live here ILLEGALLY.
The media really does a disservice to the public by constantly interchanging the word "immigrant" and "illegal immigrant." They are two different things.
Within this piece that you posted, when they use the term "immigrant," they are referring ONLY to LEGAL immigrants.
Occasionally they will mention "undocumented immigrants" aka illegal immigrants, and provide a different set of facts.
Anyway, a few things I would like to mention here....
Some illegal immigrants do indeed pay income tax via the Individual Tax Identification Number, or the ITIN. However, most illegal immigrants are poor, so they would receive a full tax refund. Therefore, the American middle class ends up footing the bill for schools, hospitals and maintenance of the infrastructure, which in some places, is busting at the seams.
In addition, there are some illegal immigration advocate groups that are pushing for the ITIN to serve as a replacement for the Social Security Number for those unable to obtain SSN's (because they are not citizens). This opens up a whole new can of worms and is pretty controversial. I encourage ppl to research the developing use of ITIN's by those living here illegally.
One thing I would like to address is those illegal immigrants of Hispanic origin claiming that the southwest portion of the US is "their land" and was "stolen" by American settlers..... This "argument" is bogus. The fact is that most Hispanic illegal immigrants are coming from far south of the existing US border, and have no relation to Native Americans whatsoever. The original border tribes from back in the day have already been in the US for years. I encourage anyone to research the fact that the US, up to a point, did not require customs info from border Mexicans, as it did from those arriving from Europe and beyond.
So, I ask everyone to re-read this article that O-dub posted, and make note that the article is referring to only LEGAL immigrants, and only mentions ILLEGAL (undocumented) immigrants a few times, and provides a separate set of data for those people.
(sorry for the caps, just trying to make a point)
I hope you're not suggesting that anyone pushing the agenda you mention above is anything but a fringe element.
I don't got much to add to this discussion in terms of fact I only have personal perspective.
First, I find it insulting to say that illegal immigrants will "do that jobs that Americans don't" Like Fatback said it makes it seem like they are only good for jobs that Americans won't lower themselves to do. I also think it says something for the work ethic of Americans that they aren't willing to get their hands dirty.
I've always thought that the (immigrant) generation that comes in and is eager to get whatever work they can seems to begat a much more successful generation.
Take the Ellis Island Jews that came in during the first half of the 20th century and their children or the Vietnamese that immigrated here during the 70's and 80's.
Second, Immigration is an issue. It may not be discussed with the same importance throughout the country but in Los Angeles it's always been a major topic. It's unfortunate that it only seems to be of national importance during election years. I have family (in-laws) that came here from Mexico. They have done their best to learn the language and to find employment that will better their lives. They would love to be citizens of this country but it's not like its that easy. To tell them their plight and the plight of a reported 12 million others is not an issue of national importance is wrong.
The ???Day Without An Immigrant??? demonstrations brought most of Los Angeles to a stand still. It is evident that those that came over think of immigration as an issue even if US born citizens don't. I think that day last week answered any questions about the importance of illegal immigration as a national matter.
Shouldn't they be focusing on the employers? Seems like it would at least be more efficient to go after them instead of chasing motherfuckers through the Arizona desert.
You mean like Juan Jose Gutierrez who heads up a few groups and is also a representative of A.N.S.W.E.R. ?
Side note: I'm guessing that this will probably put all the talk that was going on a while back of a common currency between CAN/US/MEX down the toilet.
Many who are at the poverty level have jobs, sometimes two. They just can't provide enough for an entire family. The issue we are talking about isn't the unemployment rate.
where crazy talk belongs