I'll try to make this my final thoughts on this long winded thread.
1) Steele is talking about ideas that actually exist amongst Leftists that most acts of American power are oppressive.
2) What he's trying to do though is paint Liberals with this opinion when it is not a mainstream Liberal idea.
3) He's doing this working for a very conservative think tank, and I see his criticism as being very partisan. It would be like if I criticized liberatarians and tried to say that their's was a mainstream conservative idea.
4) If you want me to agree with something Steele said, I agree that there are black political leaders who use the race card as a power play against whites.
5) The main problem with Steele's ideas about race is that he takes it as a personal form of discrimination amongst people. He's ignoring the much more powerful forms of cultural and institutional racism. Why do most black women have straight permed hair? Why do a lot of Latinos have their daughters bleach their hair or put lime juice and such in it to lighten it? Why is dark skin amongst some Latinos looked down upon as being too Indian? Why do police pull over black men more often? Why do banks red-line people of color? etc.
1) Agree
2) There are no mainstream Liberal ideas as twoply pointed out earlier.
3) I guess in this day and age everyone has to be "labeled" so you know how to react to them.
4) Agree
5) No doubt his theory of "white guilt" starts at a street level. If our political system works properly the leaders represent what the people think and not the other way around.
Done....I'll save all the rest of my fire for tonights Lakers/Suns game!!
Americans may fight evil, they argued, but that does not make us inherently good. And paradoxically, that very recognition makes national greatness possible. Knowing that we, too, can be corrupted by power, we seek the constraints that empires refuse. And knowing that democracy is something we pursue rather than something we embody, we advance it not merely by exhorting others but by battling the evil in ourselves. The irony of American exceptionalism is that by acknowledging our common fallibility, we inspire the world. [/b]
That is so freaking on point. It gets frustrating having to deal with thinking that never seems to get beyond binay "They're pure evil (whoever 'they' may be); we're all that is good." It's annoying that such people can't see the middle ground espoused above.
It stigmatizes America with all the imperialistic and racist ugliness of the white Western past
Um, what about all the imperialistic and racist ugliness of the white Western present? He acts as if America has shed all the Imperialism of so long ago, as if racism is something that ended in 1964 with the stroke of LBJ's pen...he's either completely naive (hard to imagine) or a lying-ass puppet. I'm going with the latter.
Rockadelic:
In what way has America ever "inspired" the Islamic world??
You're right - we only "armed" them - with weapons to kill first each other, and then ourselves.
I read the whole article and I actually can see how it fits right into what Steele is saying. The country has gone from one end of the spectrum where blind patriotism and a feeling of American moral and intellectual superiority and a "might makes right" attitude has now swung to the opposite end of the spectrum where guilt for these things has made people feel that ANY agression towards an enemy is considered evil and taboo. You may not feel this way personally but it IS the overall view of the Far Left.
Rock I gotta hand it to you, you kow how to stir up a shit storm.
While it takes at least two to create a shit storm, doing it here is as easy as stating that anyone who is part of, revered by or associated with the Conservative segment of our society is anything but a flaming idiot.
The irony of American exceptionalism is that by acknowledging our common fallibility, we inspire the world.
In what way has America ever "inspired" the Islamic world??
What what bothers me most about your constant critique of liberals is that liberals are irrelevant right now. Conservatives control congress and the executive branch.
While I understand that criticizing those in power "may" accomplish more than criticiizing those who aren't, to say that Liberals are beyond criticism because they are not CURRENTLY in power is absurd. You would see me here being critical to Conservatives on topics like Abortion, Drug Policies, Censorship, etc. but no one ever comes here to defend their viewpoints on these topics. SS members hold very few Conservative views while I actually have a few and am not embarrassed or too intimidated to state them.
Since you have spent time studying these issues and are certainly better versed than I am on these topics just tell me this....
What Conservative in today's society is on point about War, racism or any other of the volatile topics discussed on the regular here at SS.
Sorry for the late response Rock but here I go.
Many conservatives are starting to change their tune about the war. Many of them believe that this fiasco will hurt us for years to come. Even talking heads like Tucker Carlson think that war is essentially lost. The old guard (Scowcroft, Baker, Powell et al) has always disagreed about the war in Iraq.
On race, conservatives essentially agree with Steele (race is a minimal annoyance) which is an absurd position. I think all parties need to take more responsibility for the situation. Black artists like Talib Kweli have spoken articulately about the sense of self-destructiveness in the black commmunity for a long time. They talk about ways that black folk need to change in order to move to a better place. Guys like Cosby see this as a cultural issue and speak on it regularly. On the other hand, Kweli also points out the long over due recogning that needs to take place in the white community including economic, social and political ammends to be paid to those who suffered centuries of discrimination. I think this is a very reasonable view of this struggle. In South Afica there was a Truth and Reconcilliation committee established in order to ventilate both sides understading of the horrors that occured during Apartheid. We need to go through similar processes in order to move on. Without facing the problems they will only fester.
As to your question about conservatives on the right track......There are a great many pro-choice conservatives of course. And some conservatives are liberal on the environment. The supreme court which has had a conservative majority for almost a decade recently legalized sodomy which is major step forward in recognizing the humanity of all Americans. Not long ago Reagan raised taxes during the recession when he realized that the people would suffer if we didn't do something. That took a sense of balance. That sense is now dead on the conservative side. If you wonder about the dems, take a look a "no child left behind" which dems made possible after listening in good faith to the pres. That's called compromise.
I still have to say that overall the conservative agenda is one where the elites seem to gain the most economic power, women and minorities are told to stay in their place, science is ignored to meet political objectives and workers who organize are seen as corrupt and self-serving. It's simply
Comments
1) Agree
2) There are no mainstream Liberal ideas as twoply pointed out earlier.
3) I guess in this day and age everyone has to be "labeled" so you know how to react to them.
4) Agree
5) No doubt his theory of "white guilt" starts at a street level. If our political system works properly the leaders represent what the people think and not the other way around.
Done....I'll save all the rest of my fire for tonights Lakers/Suns game!!
just stop dude.
That is so freaking on point. It gets frustrating having to deal with thinking that never seems to get beyond binay "They're pure evil (whoever 'they' may be); we're all that is good." It's annoying that such people can't see the middle ground espoused above.
Um, what about all the imperialistic and racist ugliness of the
white Western present? He acts as if America has shed all the Imperialism
of so long ago, as if racism is something that ended in 1964 with the stroke
of LBJ's pen...he's either completely naive (hard to imagine) or a
lying-ass puppet. I'm going with the latter.
Rockadelic:
You're right - we only "armed" them - with weapons to kill
first each other, and then ourselves.
Yes. Please.
LOL, dude.
Steele is not being seriously considered as president of Harvard by anybody.
Sorry for the late response Rock but here I go.
Many conservatives are starting to change their tune about the war. Many of them believe that this fiasco will hurt us for years to come. Even talking heads like Tucker Carlson think that war is essentially lost. The old guard (Scowcroft, Baker, Powell et al) has always disagreed about the war in Iraq.
On race, conservatives essentially agree with Steele (race is a minimal annoyance) which is an absurd position. I think all parties need to take more responsibility for the situation. Black artists like Talib Kweli have spoken articulately about the sense of self-destructiveness in the black commmunity for a long time. They talk about ways that black folk need to change in order to move to a better place. Guys like Cosby see this as a cultural issue and speak on it regularly. On the other hand, Kweli also points out the long over due recogning that needs to take place in the white community including economic, social and political ammends to be paid to those who suffered centuries of discrimination. I think this is a very reasonable view of this struggle. In South Afica there was a Truth and Reconcilliation committee established in order to ventilate both sides understading of the horrors that occured during Apartheid. We need to go through similar processes in order to move on. Without facing the problems they will only fester.
As to your question about conservatives on the right track......There are a great many pro-choice conservatives of course. And some conservatives are liberal on the environment. The supreme court which has had a conservative majority for almost a decade recently legalized sodomy which is major step forward in recognizing the humanity of all Americans. Not long ago Reagan raised taxes during the recession when he realized that the people would suffer if we didn't do something. That took a sense of balance. That sense is now dead on the conservative side. If you wonder about the dems, take a look a "no child left behind" which dems made possible after listening in good faith to the pres. That's called compromise.
I still have to say that overall the conservative agenda is one where the elites seem to gain the most economic power, women and minorities are told to stay in their place, science is ignored to meet political objectives and workers who organize are seen as corrupt and self-serving. It's simply