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Expectations vs. Reality

Rix22Rix22 67 Posts
edited April 2006 in Strut Central
First, with the pending release of albums by Mobb Deep, Nas and Raekwon, is it too much to expect "classic" material from these artists? Second, will we ever have a stretch like '88-'89 or '92-'94 where a significant amount of impactful albums will drop?

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  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    First, with the pending release of albums by Mobb Deep, Nas and Raekwon, is it too much to expect "classic" material from these artists?

    Second, will we ever have a stretch like '88-'89 or '92-'94 where a significant amount of impactful albums will drop?

    Yes to your first question, and an emphatic NO to your second one. The problem is that rap is not about art anymore, it's solely commerce-driven. That's "Funky Nassau" (The Beginning of the End). Rap is sliding down the proverbial slippery slope. If artists don't step it up, it'll go out like disco. The drop in sales speaks volumes, like the NBA.

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak
  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    LOL Stacks, doesn't the fact that you admit to hearing all new albums through that cloudy filter render your opinion on them irrelevant??

    Rix: Nas and Mobb Deep always bring something nice to the table, but to expect a consistent album from either is completely unreasonable. I haven't even heard a Rae album since his first, IMO he should've remained in the 90s cuz I just can't pay attention to him anymore
  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    LOL Stacks, doesn't the fact that you admit to hearing all new albums through that cloudy filter render your opinion on them irrelevant??

    Rix: Nas and Mobb Deep always bring something nice to the table, but to expect a consistent album from either is completely unreasonable. I haven't even heard a Rae album since his first, IMO he should've remained in the 90s cuz I just can't pay attention to him anymore

    Cloudy filter? Hey, if an LP is dope, it's dope. Cats need to step their game up and put out some quality material (i.e., a coherent, well-executed album, not a 16-song disk full of wanna-be singles). I can't feel non-lyrical, heartless music from any genre, rap or otherwise. Rappers write for checks too much with no heart involved. I need more than a hook and nursery rhymes.

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak
  • kennykenny 1,024 Posts
    that reminded me of an interview with no ID, where he says nowadays its strange that an album (an artist) is produced by 10 different producers, which is crazy because how is he suppose to have the same chemistry or level of communication with 10 different individuals, its more like a shopping habit of beats and wrap them all together into a CD

    whereas back in old times, the soul or jazz albums are usually produced by one producer, all the way thru, and they were only 5 or 6 tracks in the whole album.
  • BurnsBurns 2,227 Posts
    I like how the title of this thread has more substance than the material.
    I was expecting somehthing way out other than music. sorry.
  • BigSpliffBigSpliff 3,266 Posts
    I like how the title of this thread has more substance than the material.
    I was expecting somehthing way out other than music. sorry.

    But on reading the initial question, I was pleasantly surprised by the responses.

    But the album is a dead concept.
  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    But the album is a dead concept.

    You may have a point there
  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    Stacks speaks truth. Dudes are Tin Men.
  • CousinLarryCousinLarry 4,618 Posts
    that reminded me of an interview with no ID, where he says nowadays its strange that an album (an artist) is produced by 10 different producers, which is crazy because how is he suppose to have the same chemistry or level of communication with 10 different individuals, its more like a shopping habit of beats and wrap them all together into a CD

    whereas back in old times, the soul or jazz albums are usually produced by one producer, all the way thru, and they were only 5 or 6 tracks in the whole album.

    So in theory BE should have been a good hip hop album?
  • NiteKrawler45NiteKrawler45 1,062 Posts
    that reminded me of an interview with no ID, where he says nowadays its strange that an album (an artist) is produced by 10 different producers, which is crazy because how is he suppose to have the same chemistry or level of communication with 10 different individuals, its more like a shopping habit of beats and wrap them all together into a CD

    whereas back in old times, the soul or jazz albums are usually produced by one producer, all the way thru, and they were only 5 or 6 tracks in the whole album.

    It's great to have a similar feel throughout an LP. You can settle in for the ride, and it's almost like extensions of the artist on different sides of one road, rather than jumping from town to town. There are certainly LPs that can keep a feel with different producers, and some that feel right NOT keeping a feel.....but I'm one to let the other 40586 producers appear as only a guest/sparsely on the LP, or work with the 12" remixes (classic Pete Rock and Diamond D steez).
  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    I like how the title of this thread has more substance than the material.
    I was expecting somehthing way out other than music. sorry.

    But on reading the initial question, I was pleasantly surprised by the responses.

    But the new york rap[/b] album is a dead concept.
  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    So in theory BE should have been a good hip hop album?

    Thats exactly what I was thinking of, and I have a feeling Stacks might think thats a good album... whereas I consider it a shitty collection of attempts at singles
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    First, with the pending release of albums by Mobb Deep, Nas and Raekwon, is it too much to expect "classic" material from these artists?

    Second, will we ever have a stretch like '88-'89 or '92-'94 where a significant amount of impactful albums will drop?

    Yes to both... but why you would look to the dudes that were producing classic albums 12 or 15 years ago to be the dudes that do it today is beyond me.
  • CousinLarryCousinLarry 4,618 Posts
    So in theory BE should have been a good hip hop album?

    Thats exactly what I was thinking of, and I have a feeling Stacks might think thats a good album... whereas I consider it a shitty collection of attempts at singles

    That album really was good in threory and I was excited when I bought it. Then I listened to it twice and now I don't even know where it is. I have a feeling it's one of those albums I will come across in a couple of years throw it on and then remember why I never really listened to it that much. The definition of
  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
    that reminded me of an interview with no ID, where he says nowadays its strange that an album (an artist) is produced by 10 different producers, which is crazy because how is he suppose to have the same chemistry or level of communication with 10 different individuals, its more like a shopping habit of beats and wrap them all together into a CD

    whereas back in old times, the soul or jazz albums are usually produced by one producer, all the way thru, and they were only 5 or 6 tracks in the whole album.

    So in theory BE should have been a good hip hop album?

    Well, yeah. Sonically at least, there's some kind of consistency and coherence to it (even if I wasn't that knocked out with it as an album). The broader point No ID seems to be making is one I agree with; sometimes you'll get an album that, with all the guest spots/multiple producers/songs aimed at specific markets, ends up sounding more like a compilation, more so if the main artist lacks the charisma or skills to carry an entire album on his/her own. The tendency for more albums to be made like that has definitely resulted in weaker albums generally, I think. It's a lot closer to the way in which pop albums are made. It can't be coincidence that the early Wu albums - where generally it was just Rza doing the beats, with Rae, Gza, Ghost or whoever getting the bulk of the mic time - are the ones that most people seem to consider their best.
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    that reminded me of an interview with no ID, where he says nowadays its strange that an album (an artist) is produced by 10 different producers, which is crazy because how is he suppose to have the same chemistry or level of communication with 10 different individuals, its more like a shopping habit of beats and wrap them all together into a CD

    whereas back in old times, the soul or jazz albums are usually produced by one producer, all the way thru, and they were only 5 or 6 tracks in the whole album.

    So in theory BE should have been a good hip hop album?

    Well, yeah. Sonically at least, there's some kind of consistency and coherence to it (even if I wasn't that knocked out with it as an album). The broader point No ID seems to be making is one I agree with; sometimes you'll get an album that, with all the guest spots/multiple producers/songs aimed at specific markets, ends up sounding more like a compilation, more so if the main artist lacks the charisma or skills to carry an entire album on his/her own. The tendency for more albums to be made like that has definitely resulted in weaker albums generally, I think. It's a lot closer to the way in which pop albums are made. It can't be coincidence that the early Wu albums - where generally it was just Rza doing the beats, with Rae, Gza, Ghost or whoever getting the bulk of the mic time - are the ones that most people seem to consider their best.

    I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I think whether the album ends up being coherant or disparate really has a lot to do with what the artist's intent is in picking/soliciting beats from different producers. When his main thing is to try and triangulate on a dozen different markets, then yeah, it does usually end up sounding forced and isn't much of an end-to-end listening experience, but then there are artists like Jeezy and the Game (whose project was overseen by Dre, obviously a master at doing this) who have recently managed to stitch together coherant albums using the "dream team" producer approach.
  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
    that reminded me of an interview with no ID, where he says nowadays its strange that an album (an artist) is produced by 10 different producers, which is crazy because how is he suppose to have the same chemistry or level of communication with 10 different individuals, its more like a shopping habit of beats and wrap them all together into a CD

    whereas back in old times, the soul or jazz albums are usually produced by one producer, all the way thru, and they were only 5 or 6 tracks in the whole album.

    So in theory BE should have been a good hip hop album?

    Well, yeah. Sonically at least, there's some kind of consistency and coherence to it (even if I wasn't that knocked out with it as an album). The broader point No ID seems to be making is one I agree with; sometimes you'll get an album that, with all the guest spots/multiple producers/songs aimed at specific markets, ends up sounding more like a compilation, more so if the main artist lacks the charisma or skills to carry an entire album on his/her own. The tendency for more albums to be made like that has definitely resulted in weaker albums generally, I think. It's a lot closer to the way in which pop albums are made. It can't be coincidence that the early Wu albums - where generally it was just Rza doing the beats, with Rae, Gza, Ghost or whoever getting the bulk of the mic time - are the ones that most people seem to consider their best.

    I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I think whether the album ends up being coherant or disparate really has a lot to do with what the artist's intent is in picking/soliciting beats from different producers. When his main thing is to try and triangulate on a dozen different markets, then yeah, it does usually end up sounding forced and isn't much of an end-to-end listening experience, but then there are artists like Jeezy and the Game (whose project was overseen by Dre, obviously a master at doing this) who have recently managed to stitch together coherant albums using the "dream team" producer approach.

    It's funny you use Jeezy as an example. I find that many South acts who use the multiple producer method don't seem to suffer from its shortcomings as much. Perhaps that's because a lot of South producers (or the ones I'm most familiar with) have a sound that's in many ways derived from the kind of elements you've always found on South records - heavy 808 kicks, lots of keys, horn presets of some sort - so you can use a bunch of different cats and still get a record with a unified feel. Which might be kinda what you're saying, I suppose.
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    that reminded me of an interview with no ID, where he says nowadays its strange that an album (an artist) is produced by 10 different producers, which is crazy because how is he suppose to have the same chemistry or level of communication with 10 different individuals, its more like a shopping habit of beats and wrap them all together into a CD

    whereas back in old times, the soul or jazz albums are usually produced by one producer, all the way thru, and they were only 5 or 6 tracks in the whole album.

    So in theory BE should have been a good hip hop album?

    Well, yeah. Sonically at least, there's some kind of consistency and coherence to it (even if I wasn't that knocked out with it as an album). The broader point No ID seems to be making is one I agree with; sometimes you'll get an album that, with all the guest spots/multiple producers/songs aimed at specific markets, ends up sounding more like a compilation, more so if the main artist lacks the charisma or skills to carry an entire album on his/her own. The tendency for more albums to be made like that has definitely resulted in weaker albums generally, I think. It's a lot closer to the way in which pop albums are made. It can't be coincidence that the early Wu albums - where generally it was just Rza doing the beats, with Rae, Gza, Ghost or whoever getting the bulk of the mic time - are the ones that most people seem to consider their best.

    I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I think whether the album ends up being coherant or disparate really has a lot to do with what the artist's intent is in picking/soliciting beats from different producers. When his main thing is to try and triangulate on a dozen different markets, then yeah, it does usually end up sounding forced and isn't much of an end-to-end listening experience, but then there are artists like Jeezy and the Game (whose project was overseen by Dre, obviously a master at doing this) who have recently managed to stitch together coherant albums using the "dream team" producer approach.

    It's funny you use Jeezy as an example. I find that many South acts who use the multiple producer method don't seem to suffer from its shortcomings as much. Perhaps that's because a lot of South producers (or the ones I'm most familiar with) have a sound that's in many ways derived from the kind of elements you've always found on South records - heavy 808 kicks, lots of keys, horn presets of some sort - so you can use a bunch of different cats and still get a record with a unified feel. Which might be kinda what you're saying, I suppose.

    Perhaps... one thing here, though, is that most Southern acts are going to stick with Southern style production, whereas a lot of New York acts, lacking an identity these days, are going to do some schizophrenic schitt: try to give you "that ol' new York schitt" and recruit Southern producers on the same album. A Li'l Jon track sticks out a lot more and is a lot more disruptive on a Mobb Deep album than on a T.I. album.
  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    that reminded me of an interview with no ID, where he says nowadays its strange that an album (an artist) is produced by 10 different producers, which is crazy because how is he suppose to have the same chemistry or level of communication with 10 different individuals, its more like a shopping habit of beats and wrap them all together into a CD

    whereas back in old times, the soul or jazz albums are usually produced by one producer, all the way thru, and they were only 5 or 6 tracks in the whole album.

    So in theory BE should have been a good hip hop album?

    Well, yeah. Sonically at least, there's some kind of consistency and coherence to it (even if I wasn't that knocked out with it as an album). The broader point No ID seems to be making is one I agree with; sometimes you'll get an album that, with all the guest spots/multiple producers/songs aimed at specific markets, ends up sounding more like a compilation, more so if the main artist lacks the charisma or skills to carry an entire album on his/her own. The tendency for more albums to be made like that has definitely resulted in weaker albums generally, I think. It's a lot closer to the way in which pop albums are made. It can't be coincidence that the early Wu albums - where generally it was just Rza doing the beats, with Rae, Gza, Ghost or whoever getting the bulk of the mic time - are the ones that most people seem to consider their best.

    I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I think whether the album ends up being coherant or disparate really has a lot to do with what the artist's intent is in picking/soliciting beats from different producers. When his main thing is to try and triangulate on a dozen different markets, then yeah, it does usually end up sounding forced and isn't much of an end-to-end listening experience, but then there are artists like Jeezy and the Game (whose project was overseen by Dre, obviously a master at doing this) who have recently managed to stitch together coherant albums using the "dream team" producer approach.

    It's funny you use Jeezy as an example. I find that many South acts who use the multiple producer method don't seem to suffer from its shortcomings as much. Perhaps that's because a lot of South producers (or the ones I'm most familiar with) have a sound that's in many ways derived from the kind of elements you've always found on South records - heavy 808 kicks, lots of keys, horn presets of some sort - so you can use a bunch of different cats and still get a record with a unified feel. Which might be kinda what you're saying, I suppose.

    Perhaps... one thing here, though, is that most Southern acts are going to stick with Southern style production, whereas a lot of New York acts, lacking an identity these days, are going to do some schizophrenic schitt: try to give you "that ol' new York schitt" and recruit Southern producers on the same album. A Li'l Jon track sticks out a lot more and is a lot more disruptive on a Mobb Deep album than on a T.I. album.

    Great point!!!!

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak
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