Ask any OG rapper when they first heard rap on a record, and 8-9 times out of 10 it'll be Blowfly. I've heard it from the lips of Devin The Dude, Snoop and Slug - and most of the first wave guys would say them same.
Coupla things...
A. Snoop, Devin and SLUG[/b] (although talented, do not qualify as "OG rapper(s)" by any stretch of the imagination... except yours.
B. Ask any[/b] OG rapper? How bout asking an OG rapper from the bronx who the first rapper they ever heard was?
Your "research" sounds as flawed as your homie Roni's. And you're talking about people not knowing the game?
Look smokedog it's chill that you play with Blowfly and i'm sure you're a sincere dude but you're talking out of your ass. I don't know what Devin said nor do I really care because despite being a wonderful artist Devin is in no way an authority on the beginnings of rap music.
Last Poets, signifying monkey, Pigmeat Markham, James Brown, Fatback, Blowfly... all of these artists/songs are important but they DID NOT create "rap music". Maybe in a history of southern rap they have a bigger role, that is possible, but in 1973 when Clarence Reid had just changed his stage name there were already dudes up top spinning breaks, MCing and DJing creating the culture known as hip-hop that spawned the genre of rap music. They took inspiration from a lot of places but that doesn't make any one of those places any kind of "founder" of that shit, just another inspiration or influence.
I'd be skeptical of this book for a variety of reasons:
1) Sarig does write on hip-hop (and Southern hip-hop) on occassion, but largely, he's a rock critic. Overwhelmingly so. I'm not against rock writers writing on hip-hop (or vice versa) but tryingto put together an entire book on a specific region would raise flags for me unless the writer can demonstrate that they've put in the time. For example: Tony Green doing a book on Southern hip-hop would hold some weight. With Sarig, all I could readily find is a Vibe piece on D.S.B.G. from 2003.
2) Sarig's agent for this project was Paul Bresnick. Bresnick does a lot of music-related books but he tends to have a plug-and-play approach to authors, i.e. you comes up with an idea first then finds a writer he can put in there. I have no way of knowing if this book was his idea or Sarig's but the impression I've gotten from speaking with writers who've dealt with Bresnick is that he's more interested in pushing a timely topic than necessarily finding the absolute best writer for the job.
3) As many pointed out, the title and cover image are incredibly suspect. Sarig wouldn't necessarily have control over the book cover (authors rarely do) but the title is his and yeah, OutKast and Timbaland just sound like, "hey, let me put up two of the most recognizable names I can think of together!"
4) Best believe that there will likely be a flood of books coming out in the next year or two with more and more publishers/editors trying to capitalize. Eventually, someone credible might actually come along.
Wrong - Rapp Dirty was first cut in 1965. The first "Blowfly" record, Odd Balls, came out in Germany in 1962. "Blowfly" was a name given to clarence by his grandmother at the age of 7. So he did not change it in 1973. That was just when Henry Stone decided to put money behind the blowfly name and started weird world. And most of the tracks that came out, were cut years before, cause henry sat on them until the rest of the world caught up/
As Blowfly was rapping long before 1974, which is the date always given by hip hop historians - he invented rap music as it is known today. "This is Blowfly / the Master of class / I'm here to sock some soul to your ass" - is rap music and it's over 40 years old.
Blowfly is THE OG. The artists know it. And it's a goddamn shame I have to come on here and school y'all. MTV and the popular history have brainwashed you all - the nice folks and the disrespecful assholes.
Guess we'll just continue to do it, one show at a time.
Wrong - Rapp Dirty was first cut in 1965. The first "Blowfly" record, Odd Balls, came out in Germany in 1962. "Blowfly" was a name given to clarence by his grandmother at the age of 7.
You're out of your mind, dude... what future rapper heard this stuff in the 60s??
Blowfly's great and all, but your dedication has gone way to far...
And how has anything you've said make this book (which you haven't read) look any less suspect anyway??
I think there are two definitions of "third coast" causing confusion/anger.
- The literal definition: The areas bordering the Gulf Coast region (Houston, New Orleans, and the immediate vicinity).
- The metaphorical definition: Hip-hop was traditionally been divided into East vs. West coast, and areas in the middle don't necessarily identify with either scene. So theoretically, the 3rd coast would include the above cities, and also Atlanta, Virginia, Carolina, etc. (Cities farther away from the ocean such as St. Louis, Chicago and Detroit would be considered "Midwest" rather than a "coast.")
Obviously, this book goes with the second definition, which would explain the inclusion of Outkast and Timbaland.
- The metaphorical definition: Hip-hop was traditionally been divided into East vs. West coast, and areas in the middle don't necessarily identify with either scene. So theoretically, the 3rd coast would include the above cities, and also Atlanta, Virginia, Carolina, etc. (Cities farther away from the ocean such as St. Louis, Chicago and Detroit would be considered "Midwest" rather than a "coast.")
Obviously, this book goes with the second definition, which would explain the inclusion of Outkast and Timbaland.
I've lived in VA and NC my entire life and I've never heard these areas referenced as 'Third Coast'
Wrong - Rapp Dirty was first cut in 1965. The first "Blowfly" record, Odd Balls, came out in Germany in 1962. "Blowfly" was a name given to clarence by his grandmother at the age of 7. So he did not change it in 1973. That was just when Henry Stone decided to put money behind the blowfly name and started weird world. And most of the tracks that came out, were cut years before, cause henry sat on them until the rest of the world caught up/
As Blowfly was rapping long before 1974, which is the date always given by hip hop historians - he invented rap music as it is known today. "This is Blowfly / the Master of class / I'm here to sock some soul to your ass" - is rap music and it's over 40 years old.
Blowfly is THE OG. The artists know it. And it's a goddamn shame I have to come on here and school y'all. MTV and the popular history have brainwashed you all - the nice folks and the disrespecful assholes.
Guess we'll just continue to do it, one show at a time.
You are out of your smoke-addled mind to come on here spouting such bilious untruths when we all know goddamned good and well that Blowfly bit his style--in whole--from Project Blowed.
So I guess Virginia isn't a part of the Dirty South scene. Had me confused, but I just thought I didn't know.
try telling that to the hundreds of rappers from here who would beg to differ.
VA is a pit poptarty & clean to be dirty yeah?
watch yo mouth.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Wrong - Rapp Dirty was first cut in 1965. The first "Blowfly" record, Odd Balls, came out in Germany in 1962. "Blowfly" was a name given to clarence by his grandmother at the age of 7. So he did not change it in 1973. That was just when Henry Stone decided to put money behind the blowfly name and started weird world. And most of the tracks that came out, were cut years before, cause henry sat on them until the rest of the world caught up/
As Blowfly was rapping long before 1974, which is the date always given by hip hop historians - he invented rap music as it is known today. "This is Blowfly / the Master of class / I'm here to sock some soul to your ass" - is rap music and it's over 40 years old.
Blowfly is THE OG. The artists know it. And it's a goddamn shame I have to come on here and school y'all. MTV and the popular history have brainwashed you all - the nice folks and the disrespecful assholes.
Guess we'll just continue to do it, one show at a time.
If what Blowfly was doing is the standard, then there were plenty of jazz and r-n-b singers "rapping" long before 1965.
And I'm not sure that it would be brainwashing that gets people to recognize that it took hip-hop deejaying to first emerge before the rapping applied to it could be considered as hip-hop rapping.
But again, I like the idea of opening up the floodgates to versions of proto-hip-hop that existed pre-Kool Herc. My take is that ultimately it almost all came from NOLA second line traditions. But then again you don't hear me calling Louis Armstrong the first rapper.
Wrong - Rapp Dirty was first cut in 1965. The first "Blowfly" record, Odd Balls, came out in Germany in 1962. "Blowfly" was a name given to clarence by his grandmother at the age of 7. So he did not change it in 1973. That was just when Henry Stone decided to put money behind the blowfly name and started weird world. And most of the tracks that came out, were cut years before, cause henry sat on them until the rest of the world caught up/
As Blowfly was rapping long before 1974, which is the date always given by hip hop historians - he invented rap music as it is known today. "This is Blowfly / the Master of class / I'm here to sock some soul to your ass" - is rap music and it's over 40 years old.
Blowfly is THE OG. The artists know it. And it's a goddamn shame I have to come on here and school y'all. MTV and the popular history have brainwashed you all - the nice folks and the disrespecful assholes.
Guess we'll just continue to do it, one show at a time.
You are out of your smoke-addled mind to come on here spouting such bilious untruths when we all know goddamned good and well that Blowfly bit his style--in whole--from Project Blowed.
Wrong - Rapp Dirty was first cut in 1965. The first "Blowfly" record, Odd Balls, came out in Germany in 1962. "Blowfly" was a name given to clarence by his grandmother at the age of 7. So he did not change it in 1973. That was just when Henry Stone decided to put money behind the blowfly name and started weird world. And most of the tracks that came out, were cut years before, cause henry sat on them until the rest of the world caught up/
As Blowfly was rapping long before 1974, which is the date always given by hip hop historians - he invented rap music as it is known today. "This is Blowfly / the Master of class / I'm here to sock some soul to your ass" - is rap music and it's over 40 years old.
Blowfly is THE OG. The artists know it. And it's a goddamn shame I have to come on here and school y'all. MTV and the popular history have brainwashed you all - the nice folks and the disrespecful assholes.
Guess we'll just continue to do it, one show at a time.
woah woah woah..... slow down, buddy. aren't you forgetting something?
what's missing is the conception... which you can find VVVVV: here.
- The metaphorical definition: Hip-hop was traditionally been divided into East vs. West coast, and areas in the middle don't necessarily identify with either scene. So theoretically, the 3rd coast would include the above cities, and also Atlanta, Virginia, Carolina, etc. (Cities farther away from the ocean such as St. Louis, Chicago and Detroit would be considered "Midwest" rather than a "coast.")
Obviously, this book goes with the second definition, which would explain the inclusion of Outkast and Timbaland.
I've lived in VA and NC my entire life and I've never heard these areas referenced as 'Third Coast'
that just means you're disconnected
And as for this other argument, that Blowfly "invented" hip-hop. People have been making arguments like this all the time and do so because they presume that "rhyming over drum breaks" somehow equals hip-hop. When I interviewed Melvin Van Peebles, he tried to make the same argument: that he was rhyming over funky tracks back in the late 60s but that hardly makes "hip-hop."
And as for this other argument, that Blowfly "invented" hip-hop. People have been making arguments like this all the time and do so because they presume that "rhyming over drum breaks" somehow equals hip-hop. When I interviewed Melvin Van Peebles, he tried to make the same argument: that he was rhyming over funky tracks back in the late 60s but that hardly makes "hip-hop."
Yup, that was a popular fad in the 60s/early 70s
Like JP said, ONE of the progenitors of rap music as we know it
I think there are two definitions of "third coast" causing confusion/anger.
- The literal definition: The areas bordering the Gulf Coast region (Houston, New Orleans, and the immediate vicinity).
- The metaphorical definition: Hip-hop was traditionally been divided into East vs. West coast, and areas in the middle don't necessarily identify with either scene. So theoretically, the 3rd coast would include the above cities, and also Atlanta, Virginia, Carolina, etc. (Cities farther away from the ocean such as St. Louis, Chicago and Detroit would be considered "Midwest" rather than a "coast.")
Obviously, this book goes with the second definition, which would explain the inclusion of Outkast and Timbaland.
Well, here in Houston, we don't consider VA or GA a part of the third coast even in a hip hop context. I think that's record labels need to keep things in a nice tidy little package that they can market. OutKast and Timbaland don't even have "typical" dirty south or third coast sound.
I mean, when I think of VA and the Carolinas, names like Skillz, Magoo, World Reknown, Petey Pablo even lil bro... but outside of Petey, there's not much of a dirty south sound there. I'm probably missing someone though.
GA on the other had definitely has a dirty south though.
- The metaphorical definition: Hip-hop was traditionally been divided into East vs. West coast, and areas in the middle don't necessarily identify with either scene. So theoretically, the 3rd coast would include the above cities, and also Atlanta, Virginia, Carolina, etc. (Cities farther away from the ocean such as St. Louis, Chicago and Detroit would be considered "Midwest" rather than a "coast.")
Obviously, this book goes with the second definition, which would explain the inclusion of Outkast and Timbaland.
I've lived in VA and NC my entire life and I've never heard these areas referenced as 'Third Coast'
that just means you're disconnected
And as for this other argument, that Blowfly "invented" hip-hop. People have been making arguments like this all the time and do so because they presume that "rhyming over drum breaks" somehow equals hip-hop. When I interviewed Melvin Van Peebles, he tried to make the same argument: that he was rhyming over funky tracks back in the late 60s but that hardly makes "hip-hop."
Everybody wants to jump in and take credit these days.
Melvin Van Peebles is still the shit though. Cant take that away from him.
I hope blowfly isnt running around at shows talking about how he invented hip hop and all that though. He deserves his respect, but i dont think thats the best way to get it.
- The metaphorical definition: Hip-hop was traditionally been divided into East vs. West coast, and areas in the middle don't necessarily identify with either scene. So theoretically, the 3rd coast would include the above cities, and also Atlanta, Virginia, Carolina, etc. (Cities farther away from the ocean such as St. Louis, Chicago and Detroit would be considered "Midwest" rather than a "coast.")
Obviously, this book goes with the second definition, which would explain the inclusion of Outkast and Timbaland.
I've lived in VA and NC my entire life and I've never heard these areas referenced as 'Third Coast'
that just means you're disconnected
And as for this other argument, that Blowfly "invented" hip-hop. People have been making arguments like this all the time and do so because they presume that "rhyming over drum breaks" somehow equals hip-hop. When I interviewed Melvin Van Peebles, he tried to make the same argument: that he was rhyming over funky tracks back in the late 60s but that hardly makes "hip-hop."
Everybody wants to jump in and take credit these days.
Melvin Van Peebles is still the shit though. Cant take that away from him.
I hope blowfly isnt running around at shows talking about how he invented hip hop and all that though. He deserves his respect, but i dont think thats the best way to get it.
i know some jamaicans that would want to jump in ......
I mean, when I think of VA and the Carolinas, names like Skillz, Magoo, World Reknown, Petey Pablo even lil bro... but outside of Petey, there's not much of a dirty south sound there. I'm probably missing someone though.
You pretty much nailed it (NC cats that don't try to sound like Native Tongues RARELY make it to wax), but check for Hot Wright and J-Khrist as far as new 'Southern-sounding' NC joints are concerned
Wrong - Rapp Dirty was first cut in 1965. The first "Blowfly" record, Odd Balls, came out in Germany in 1962. "Blowfly" was a name given to clarence by his grandmother at the age of 7. So he did not change it in 1973. That was just when Henry Stone decided to put money behind the blowfly name and started weird world. And most of the tracks that came out, were cut years before, cause henry sat on them until the rest of the world caught up/
As Blowfly was rapping long before 1974, which is the date always given by hip hop historians - he invented rap music as it is known today. "This is Blowfly / the Master of class / I'm here to sock some soul to your ass" - is rap music and it's over 40 years old.
Blowfly is THE OG. The artists know it. And it's a goddamn shame I have to come on here and school y'all. MTV and the popular history have brainwashed you all - the nice folks and the disrespecful assholes.
Guess we'll just continue to do it, one show at a time.
First off, Blowfly does not "run around telling" people anything - other than their dicks are small. This whole little tempest came out of a remark made about a book people hadn't read but slammed anyway. Roni did his homework, his book may be good or not, but he at least researched something outside the rolling stone version of history that seems to be dominant here.
I put this to all of you:
Would you consider "The Message" and "Rappers Delight" OG songs?
They came out in 1979.
"Porno Freak" came out in 1978. That's not debatable.
It featured two straight up rap songs. "Fuck the boss" and "Porno Freak." Also, not debatable.
How then, is Blowfly just an influence on rap, when he was releasing well known, well distributed, rap records before Grandmaster Flash and Sugar Hill Gang?
Would you consider "The Message" and "Rappers Delight" OG songs?
They came out in 1979.
"Porno Freak" came out in 1978. That's not debatable.
It featured two straight up rap songs. "Fuck the boss" and "Porno Freak." Also, not debatable.
How then, is Blowfly just an influence on rap, when he was releasing well known, well distributed, rap records before Grandmaster Flash and Sugar Hill Gang?
5 pager at least.
But I appreciate you Smokedog. You're like the new Archaic. Please stay around after this thread is over.
First off, Blowfly does not "run around telling" people anything - other than their dicks are small. This whole little tempest came out of a remark made about a book people hadn't read but slammed anyway. Roni did his homework, his book may be good or not, but he at least researched something outside the rolling stone version of history that seems to be dominant here.
I put this to all of you:
Would you consider "The Message" and "Rappers Delight" OG songs?
They came out in 1979.
"Porno Freak" came out in 1978. That's not debatable.
It featured two straight up rap songs. "Fuck the boss" and "Porno Freak." Also, not debatable.
How then, is Blowfly just an influence on rap, when he was releasing well known, well distributed, rap records before Grandmaster Flash and Sugar Hill Gang?
I knew Blowfly was a freak but I didn't know he made his own band members suck him off!
Comments
Chokedog wrote:
HARVEY CANAL WROTE:
woah. what's going on here?
Coupla things...
A. Snoop, Devin and SLUG[/b] (although talented, do not qualify as "OG rapper(s)" by any stretch of the imagination... except yours.
B. Ask any[/b] OG rapper? How bout asking an OG rapper from the bronx who the first rapper they ever heard was?
Your "research" sounds as flawed as your homie Roni's. And you're talking about people not knowing the game?
the hell you say?!!!
Look smokedog it's chill that you play with Blowfly and i'm sure you're a sincere dude but you're talking out of your ass. I don't know what Devin said nor do I really care because despite being a wonderful artist Devin is in no way an authority on the beginnings of rap music.
Last Poets, signifying monkey, Pigmeat Markham, James Brown, Fatback, Blowfly... all of these artists/songs are important but they DID NOT create "rap music". Maybe in a history of southern rap they have a bigger role, that is possible, but in 1973 when Clarence Reid had just changed his stage name there were already dudes up top spinning breaks, MCing and DJing creating the culture known as hip-hop that spawned the genre of rap music. They took inspiration from a lot of places but that doesn't make any one of those places any kind of "founder" of that shit, just another inspiration or influence.
1) Sarig does write on hip-hop (and Southern hip-hop) on occassion, but largely, he's a rock critic. Overwhelmingly so. I'm not against rock writers writing on hip-hop (or vice versa) but tryingto put together an entire book on a specific region would raise flags for me unless the writer can demonstrate that they've put in the time. For example: Tony Green doing a book on Southern hip-hop would hold some weight. With Sarig, all I could readily find is a Vibe piece on D.S.B.G. from 2003.
2) Sarig's agent for this project was Paul Bresnick. Bresnick does a lot of music-related books but he tends to have a plug-and-play approach to authors, i.e. you comes up with an idea first then finds a writer he can put in there. I have no way of knowing if this book was his idea or Sarig's but the impression I've gotten from speaking with writers who've dealt with Bresnick is that he's more interested in pushing a timely topic than necessarily finding the absolute best writer for the job.
3) As many pointed out, the title and cover image are incredibly suspect. Sarig wouldn't necessarily have control over the book cover (authors rarely do) but the title is his and yeah, OutKast and Timbaland just sound like, "hey, let me put up two of the most recognizable names I can think of together!"
4) Best believe that there will likely be a flood of books coming out in the next year or two with more and more publishers/editors trying to capitalize. Eventually, someone credible might actually come along.
As Blowfly was rapping long before 1974, which is the date always given by hip hop historians - he invented rap music as it is known today. "This is Blowfly / the Master of class / I'm here to sock some soul to your ass" - is rap music and it's over 40 years old.
Blowfly is THE OG. The artists know it. And it's a goddamn shame I have to come on here and school y'all. MTV and the popular history have brainwashed you all - the nice folks and the disrespecful assholes.
Guess we'll just continue to do it, one show at a time.
You're out of your mind, dude... what future rapper heard this stuff in the 60s??
Blowfly's great and all, but your dedication has gone way to far...
And how has anything you've said make this book (which you haven't read) look any less suspect anyway??
- The literal definition: The areas bordering the Gulf Coast region (Houston, New Orleans, and the immediate vicinity).
- The metaphorical definition: Hip-hop was traditionally been divided into East vs. West coast, and areas in the middle don't necessarily identify with either scene. So theoretically, the 3rd coast would include the above cities, and also Atlanta, Virginia, Carolina, etc. (Cities farther away from the ocean such as St. Louis, Chicago and Detroit would be considered "Midwest" rather than a "coast.")
Obviously, this book goes with the second definition, which would explain the inclusion of Outkast and Timbaland.
I've lived in VA and NC my entire life and I've never heard these areas referenced as 'Third Coast'
You are out of your smoke-addled mind to come on here spouting such bilious untruths when we all know goddamned good and well that Blowfly bit his style--in whole--from Project Blowed.
I say good day to you, sir.
try telling that to the hundreds of rappers from here who would beg to differ.
watch yo mouth.
If what Blowfly was doing is the standard, then there were plenty of jazz and r-n-b singers "rapping" long before 1965.
And I'm not sure that it would be brainwashing that gets people to recognize that it took hip-hop deejaying to first emerge before the rapping applied to it could be considered as hip-hop rapping.
But again, I like the idea of opening up the floodgates to versions of proto-hip-hop that existed pre-Kool Herc. My take is that ultimately it almost all came from NOLA second line traditions. But then again you don't hear me calling Louis Armstrong the first rapper.
You see the difference?
lol good call. 10 pager coming up?!!?!
Me neither. But Roni Sarig (or his editor) apparently thinks so.
woah woah woah..... slow down, buddy. aren't you forgetting something?
what's missing is the conception... which you can find VVVVV: here.
EDIT: FUCK .. R**S BEAT ME TO IT.
me neither. i always thought of the third coast as the gulf.
that just means you're disconnected
And as for this other argument, that Blowfly "invented" hip-hop. People have been making arguments like this all the time and do so because they presume that "rhyming over drum breaks" somehow equals hip-hop. When I interviewed Melvin Van Peebles, he tried to make the same argument: that he was rhyming over funky tracks back in the late 60s but that hardly makes "hip-hop."
Yup, that was a popular fad in the 60s/early 70s
Like JP said, ONE of the progenitors of rap music as we know it
Well, here in Houston, we don't consider VA or GA a part of the third coast even in a hip hop context. I think that's record labels need to keep things in a nice tidy little package that they can market. OutKast and Timbaland don't even have "typical" dirty south or third coast sound.
I mean, when I think of VA and the Carolinas, names like Skillz, Magoo, World Reknown, Petey Pablo even lil bro... but outside of Petey, there's not much of a dirty south sound there. I'm probably missing someone though.
GA on the other had definitely has a dirty south though.
Basically that second definition is bullshit-ish.
correct sir !
BUT
there are so many other things wrong in this thread
BUT
Everybody wants to jump in and take credit these days.
Melvin Van Peebles is still the shit though. Cant take that away from him.
I hope blowfly isnt running around at shows talking about how he invented hip hop and all that though. He deserves his respect, but i dont think thats the best way to get it.
i know some jamaicans that would want to jump in ......
You pretty much nailed it (NC cats that don't try to sound like Native Tongues RARELY make it to wax), but check for Hot Wright and J-Khrist as far as new 'Southern-sounding' NC joints are concerned
HAHAHAHAHA!
Oh snap, now we're going international. (Though, in this case, you'd actually have a better argument on your hands than Blowfly).
I put this to all of you:
Would you consider "The Message" and "Rappers Delight" OG songs?
They came out in 1979.
"Porno Freak" came out in 1978. That's not debatable.
It featured two straight up rap songs. "Fuck the boss" and "Porno Freak." Also, not debatable.
How then, is Blowfly just an influence on rap, when he was releasing well known, well distributed, rap records before Grandmaster Flash and Sugar Hill Gang?
5 pager at least.
But I appreciate you Smokedog. You're like the new Archaic. Please stay around after this thread is over.
miami people were just biting from their caribbean bredren
I knew Blowfly was a freak but I didn't know he made his own band members suck him off!