Seventeen homeless adults, all with long and chronic histories of alcohol abuse, were allowed up to 15 glasses of wine or sherry a day -- a glass an hour from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. -- in the Ottawa-based program, which started in 2002 and is continuing.
Giving homeless alcoholics a regular supply of booze may improve their health and their behavior, the Canadian Medical Association Journal said in a study published on Tuesday.
Seventeen homeless adults, all with long and chronic histories of alcohol abuse, were allowed up to 15 glasses of wine or sherry a day -- a glass an hour from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. -- in the Ottawa-based program, which started in 2002 and is continuing.
After an average of 16 months, the number of times participants got in trouble with the law had fallen 51 percent from the three years before they joined the program, and hospital emergency room visits were down 36 percent.
"Once we give a 'small amount' of alcohol and stabilize the addiction, we are able to provide health services that lead to a reduction in the unnecessary health services they were getting before," said Dr. Jeff Turnbull, one of the authors of the report.
"The alcohol gets them in, builds the trust and then we have the opportunity to treat other medical diseases... It's about improving the quality of life."
Three of the 17 participants died during the program, succumbing to alcohol-related illnesses that might have killed them anyway, the study said.
The report showed that participants in the program drank less than they did before signing up, and their sleep, hygiene, nutrition and health levels all improved.
The per capita cost of around C$771 ($660) a month was partially offset by monthly savings of C$96 a month in emergency services, C$150 in hospital care and C$201 in police services per person.
Turnbull said some of the people enrolled in the program had stopped drinking altogether, although that was not an option for many of the participants.
"We agree 100 percent that abstinence is the most appropriate route," he said. "But in this subset of people where abstinence has failed, there is still a need to provide care."
Yeah, they do this in a number of Canadian cities (probably in the USA too) it's called 'harm reduction' (along the same lines as safe injection spaces, free condoms, etc). I know they do this in Toronto as well, at Seaton house. Doctors can prescribe beer and spirits too, since alcohol withdrawl is so serious. They do it for hospitalized alcoholics.
Yeah, they do this in a number of Canadian cities (probably in the USA too) it's called 'harm reduction' (along the same lines as safe injection spaces, free condoms, etc). I know they do this in Toronto as well, at Seaton house. Doctors can prescribe beer and spirits too, since alcohol withdrawl is so serious. They do it for hospitalized alcoholics.
There's no way they're doing that in the US!! I think they'd sooner exterminate them...
Alcoholism isn't really treated seriously like a disease here yet... more like a personal problem...
Yeah, they do this in a number of Canadian cities (probably in the USA too) it's called 'harm reduction' (along the same lines as safe injection spaces, free condoms, etc). I know they do this in Toronto as well, at Seaton house. Doctors can prescribe beer and spirits too, since alcohol withdrawl is so serious. They do it for hospitalized alcoholics.
I never really understood how they do things like this here.
I mean... They give free needles to drug addicts, but charge people who need them to live (diabetics/etc)?
Or they give them rooms to smoke crack, but anyone who wants to smoke a cigarette, you need to go outside?
Do they keep figures of how many people end up getting off drugs. I wouldn't mind my tax money going to stuff that really helped people get off drugs. But I'm not sure if this is the way...
The point is not to get people off drugs - if it happens, that's great, but the point is to limit their health problems - free needles stop people spreading all kinds of disease, for example.
I mean... They give free needles to drug addicts, but charge people who need them to live (diabetics/etc)?
Free needles are often supplied on the premise that the used ones are returned, thus ensuring responsible disposle of the old ones.Hopefully saving anyone suffering an accidental needle stick.
There's a facility here in Seattle where they provide alcohol along with treatment. It was quite controversial, though.
i think it's called linda's.
I dunno, when I hear 'booze zombies' the Cha Cha comes to mind...
HAHAHA! the first time i went to the cha cha, my buddy dared me to just walk through, real casual-like, with my dick hanging out my fly. this worked wonders until a bartender tried to blast my donger with a whole lemon. he missed, and we bailed. a lot of scenesters there, but some seriously fly chicas.
You'd know all about "tired, predictable and boring" pal.
work on your comebacks pal
"AA cult leaders"??? WTF??
the 12 steps...
1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol; that our lives had become unmanageable. 2.Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. [/b] 3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. [/b] 4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5.Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.[/b] 6.Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. [/b] 7.Humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings. [/b] 8.Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. 9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 10.Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. 11.Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out. [/b] 12.Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. [/b]
You'd know all about "tired, predictable and boring" pal.
work on your comebacks pal
"AA cult leaders"??? WTF??
the 12 steps...
1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol; that our lives had become unmanageable. 2.Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. [/b] 3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. [/b] 4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5.Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.[/b] 6.Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. [/b] 7.Humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings. [/b] 8.Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. 9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 10.Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. 11.Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out. [/b] 12.Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. [/b]
that's not very anonymous... just ask stein. peace, jax
You'd know all about "tired, predictable and boring" pal.
work on your comebacks pal
"AA cult leaders"??? WTF??
the 12 steps...
1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol; that our lives had become unmanageable. 2.Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. [/b] 3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. [/b] 4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5.Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.[/b] 6.Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. [/b] 7.Humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings. [/b] 8.Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. 9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 10.Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. 11.Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out. [/b] 12.Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. [/b]
That's about as "cult" as your neighborhood church. You conservatives tend to look at these issues as a result of "weakness" and "irresponsibility". If those traits bug you so much, why'd you vote for Bush?
The point is not to get people off drugs - if it happens, that's great, but the point is to limit their health problems - free needles stop people spreading all kinds of disease, for example.
But the problem with this is...
You might as well give free cab rides/bus/etc to anyone that is drunk.
It still wouldn't stop one dude from possibly getting into a car that one time and him possibly killing someone.
You are not treating the actual problem. Ur just putting a bandaid on it.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying don't help these people. I don't mind my tax money going to helping people. Just that I find it odd that we don't give needle to people for free, who can die without them. But a junkie is alright...
Alcoholism isn't really treated seriously like a disease here yet... more like a personal problem...
it is not a disease, it is an an addiction, its not like cancer
from the AMA:
H-95.983 Drug Dependencies as Diseases The AMA 1. endorses the proposition that drug dependencies, including alcoholism, are diseases and that their treatment is a legitimate part of medical practice, and 2. encourages physicians, other health professionals, medical and other health related organizations, and government and other policymakers to become more well informed about drug dependencies, and to base their policies and activities on the recognition that drug dependencies are, in fact, diseases. (Res. 113, A-87)
That's about as "cult" as your neighborhood church.
aa makes people believe that they cannot do what they need to do without god or the program, also tells them it is not their fault for their own actions and then tells them to spread this message to other drunks, looks like a form of cultism to me
You conservatives tend to look at these issues as a result of "weakness" and "irresponsibility".
guess i gotta go over this again with you, just because i have a different view on the iraq war does not automatically = the3rdstream is a conservative, i am prob more to the left than you larry
If those traits bug you so much, why'd you vote for Bush?
were you in the booth with me, i dont think we could fit in their together
The point is not to get people off drugs - if it happens, that's great, but the point is to limit their health problems - free needles stop people spreading all kinds of disease, for example.
But the problem with this is...
You might as well give free cab rides/bus/etc to anyone that is drunk.
It still wouldn't stop one dude from possibly getting into a car that one time and him possibly killing someone.
You are not treating the actual problem. Ur just putting a bandaid on it.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying don't help these people. I don't mind my tax money going to helping people. Just that I find it odd that we don't give needle to people for free, who can die without them. But a junkie is alright...
just think of it like an infectious diseases problem. Giving out needles prevents people from catching HIV, Hep C, whatever, and prevents them from spreading it to other people. Just look at what happens in prisons, where since they don't want to acknowledge any drug problems, they don't give out needles - there's soaring rates of infection, these people infect others, and all will require treatment for for the rest of their lives (that your tax money will also pay for too, btw).
Also, diabetics can claim their medical expenses as a tax deduction, so, in a sense your tax money is going to them, too.
just think of it like an infectious diseases problem. Giving out needles prevents people from catching HIV, Hep C, whatever, and prevents them from spreading it to other people. Just look at what happens in prisons, where since they don't want to acknowledge any drug problems, they don't give out needles - there's soaring rates of infection, these people infect others, and all will require treatment for for the rest of their lives (that your tax money will also pay for too, btw).
Also, diabetics can claim their medical expenses as a tax deduction, so, in a sense your tax money is going to them, too.
But it doesn't 100% prevent spreading anything. Just when they bother to use the services. I'm almost 100% positive that most of these people hooked don't use the services all the time. When ur fucked up, and ur fixing... Are you gonna walk 10 blocks for a free needle?
But really.. Don't get me wrong. I want people to get help. I just see this as not really getting at the problem.
And it's good to hear about claiming it.. My friend told me he couldn't. I'll have to let him know.
Rockadelic
Out Digging 13,993 Posts
Comments
What, no beer????
News flash. Free Booze makes homeless "disappear"
Seventeen homeless adults, all with long and chronic histories of alcohol abuse, were allowed up to 15 glasses of wine or sherry a day -- a glass an hour from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. -- in the Ottawa-based program, which started in 2002 and is continuing.
After an average of 16 months, the number of times participants got in trouble with the law had fallen 51 percent from the three years before they joined the program, and hospital emergency room visits were down 36 percent.
"Once we give a 'small amount' of alcohol and stabilize the addiction, we are able to provide health services that lead to a reduction in the unnecessary health services they were getting before," said Dr. Jeff Turnbull, one of the authors of the report.
"The alcohol gets them in, builds the trust and then we have the opportunity to treat other medical diseases... It's about improving the quality of life."
Three of the 17 participants died during the program, succumbing to alcohol-related illnesses that might have killed them anyway, the study said.
The report showed that participants in the program drank less than they did before signing up, and their sleep, hygiene, nutrition and health levels all improved.
The per capita cost of around C$771 ($660) a month was partially offset by monthly savings of C$96 a month in emergency services, C$150 in hospital care and C$201 in police services per person.
Turnbull said some of the people enrolled in the program had stopped drinking altogether, although that was not an option for many of the participants.
"We agree 100 percent that abstinence is the most appropriate route," he said. "But in this subset of people where abstinence has failed, there is still a need to provide care."
There's no way they're doing that in the US!! I think they'd sooner exterminate them...
Alcoholism isn't really treated seriously like a disease here yet... more like a personal problem...
There's a facility here in Seattle where they provide alcohol along with treatment. It was quite controversial, though.
I dunno, when I hear 'booze zombies' the Cha Cha comes to mind...
it is not a disease, it is an an addiction, its not like cancer
I never really understood how they do things like this here.
I mean... They give free needles to drug addicts, but charge people who need them to live (diabetics/etc)?
Or they give them rooms to smoke crack, but anyone who wants to smoke a cigarette, you need to go outside?
Do they keep figures of how many people end up getting off drugs. I wouldn't mind my tax money going to stuff that really helped people get off drugs. But I'm not sure if this is the way...
The voice of compassionate conservatism...
really larry give it a rest, your shit is so tiresome predictable and boring
there is no consensus among doctors or scientists that alcholism is a disease, it is only a consensus among AA cult leaders and drunk driving lawyers
Free needles are often supplied on the premise that the used ones are returned, thus ensuring responsible disposle of the old ones.Hopefully saving anyone suffering an accidental needle stick.
You'd know all about "tired, predictable and boring" pal.
"AA cult leaders"??? WTF??
work on your comebacks pal
the 12 steps...
1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol; that our lives had become unmanageable.
2.Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. [/b]
3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. [/b]
4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5.Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.[/b]
6.Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. [/b]
7.Humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings. [/b]
8.Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10.Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11.Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out. [/b]
12.Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. [/b]
That's about as "cult" as your neighborhood church.
You conservatives tend to look at these issues as a result of "weakness" and "irresponsibility". If those traits bug you so much, why'd you vote for Bush?
But the problem with this is...
You might as well give free cab rides/bus/etc to anyone that is drunk.
It still wouldn't stop one dude from possibly getting into a car that one time and him possibly killing someone.
You are not treating the actual problem. Ur just putting a bandaid on it.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying don't help these people. I don't mind my tax money going to helping people. Just that I find it odd that we don't give needle to people for free, who can die without them. But a junkie is alright...
from the AMA:
aa makes people believe that they cannot do what they need to do without god or the program, also tells them it is not their fault for their own actions and then tells them to spread this message to other drunks, looks like a form of cultism to me
guess i gotta go over this again with you, just because i have a different view on the iraq war does not automatically = the3rdstream is a conservative, i am prob more to the left than you larry
were you in the booth with me, i dont think we could fit in their together
just think of it like an infectious diseases problem. Giving out needles prevents people from catching HIV, Hep C, whatever, and prevents them from spreading it to other people. Just look at what happens in prisons, where since they don't want to acknowledge any drug problems, they don't give out needles - there's soaring rates of infection, these people infect others, and all will require treatment for for the rest of their lives (that your tax money will also pay for too, btw).
Also, diabetics can claim their medical expenses as a tax deduction, so, in a sense your tax money is going to them, too.
But it doesn't 100% prevent spreading anything. Just when they bother to use the services. I'm almost 100% positive that most of these people hooked don't use the services all the time. When ur fucked up, and ur fixing... Are you gonna walk 10 blocks for a free needle?
But really.. Don't get me wrong. I want people to get help. I just see this as not really getting at the problem.
And it's good to hear about claiming it.. My friend told me he couldn't. I'll have to let him know.
step 2: came to believe that a POWER GREATER THAN OURSELVES could restore us to sanity.
this does not mean that you have to believe in any GOD per se. you just have to believe YOU are NOT god.
some funny higher powers i've heard people use:
1. the ocean
2. mr t
3. james brown
4. a tree
5. frank sinatra
6. the mafia
and my personal fave G.O.D. accronym for group of old drunks that are going to teach me to stop drinking. peace, stein. . .