Loose collective of sessionplayers w/ a jazz(y) background, featuring George Benson and others...
(please add on)
George Benson does not play on Harlem Underground.[/b]
I think Willis Jackson truely did. The other players I don't know anything they did outside of Harlem Underground. One of Paul Winley's Daughter sings on some cuts.
Not sure if it was a real band. What I do know is that Winley used a track off of a George Benson LP and a track off a Willis Jackson LP, both of which he did earlier, and used them on the Harlem Underground LP. Don't know if the rest of the tracks were done by studio musicians or just taken from other Winley LPs.
Loose collective of sessionplayers w/ a jazz(y) background, featuring George Benson and others...
(please add on)
George Benson does not play on Harlem Underground.[/b]
I think Willis Jackson truely did. The other players I don't know anything they did outside of Harlem Underground. One of Paul Winley's Daughter sings on some cuts.
Loose collective of sessionplayers w/ a jazz(y) background, featuring George Benson and others...
(please add on)
George Benson does not play on Harlem Underground.[/b]
I think Willis Jackson truely did. The other players I don't know anything they did outside of Harlem Underground. One of Paul Winley's Daughter sings on some cuts.
I read somewhere that David Baby Cortez is on those Harlem Underground lp's too...
I've also heard that while Benson claims to have not played on these, he also apparently never bothered to sue Winley over it either.
Ah, hearsay.
Tell me the cut where you hear Benson's distinctive guitar. I was under the impression that he did sue, or at least his lawyers settled with PW lawyers.
Dave Cortez's name is also on the credits.
PErhaps Benson's name is on the credits because PW thought he could sell more records that way.
It's been a while since I've heard Erotic Moods, but I remember thinking that it also was not Benson. Isn't it essentially the same record as Harlem Underground?
One thing is for sure, Paul Winley never took Benson into the studio or had him under contract.
Paul Winley was a savy busines man who had his ear to the street. He did not always work with in the law.
Also, Benson had been on major labels both before and after the supposed Winley session... I could see him doing a one-off like this for quick cash, but it doesn't seem likely...
I read somewhere that David Baby Cortez is on those Harlem Underground lp's too...
I've also heard that while Benson claims to have not played on these, he also apparently never bothered to sue Winley over it either.
Ah, hearsay.
Tell me the cut where you hear Benson's distinctive guitar. I was under the impression that he did sue, or at least his lawyers settled with PW lawyers.
Dave Cortez's name is also on the credits.
PErhaps Benson's name is on the credits because PW thought he could sell more records that way.
It's been a while since I've heard Erotic Moods, but I remember thinking that it also was not Benson. Isn't it essentially the same record as Harlem Underground?
One thing is for sure, Paul Winley never took Benson into the studio or had him under contract.
Paul Winley was a savy busines man who had his ear to the street. He did not always work with in the law.
Dan
Seriously--you can't infer that a claim is true just because the defamed party (or the party whose name/likeness was appropriated) never bothered to sue. Most times it's simply not worth the money or effort.
Look at where George Benson was in his career during the period that the Harlem Underground Band recording sounds like it dates from--why would he have bothered going into the studio for Paul Winley?
Also, Benson had been on major labels both before and after the supposed Winley session... I could see him doing a one-off like this for quick cash, but it doesn't seem likely...
It also seems unlikely that Winley had any significant amount of cash or, if he did, that he would have been willing to part with it...
Did Winley ever even face any legal ramifications from his repeated bootlegging of popular artists back in the day?? I'm thinking Cymande, Manu Dibango, etc
Did Winley ever even face any legal ramifications from his repeated bootlegging of popular artists back in the day?? I'm thinking Cymande, Manu Dibango, etc
I suspect Winley was what lawyers refer to as judgment proof, meaning that even if the case is open and shut, he just wouldn't have had the money to pay up, so I doubt anybody pursued him.
Tell me the cut where you hear Benson's distinctive guitar. I was under the impression that he did sue, or at least his lawyers settled with PW lawyers.
They're talking about "Smokin' Cheeba Cheeba," which is on both Erotic Moods and Harlem Underground. I'm pretty sure that he WAS on the track, but there are so many layers of overdubs on both LPs that'd make it hard for Winley himself to recall who was whom. The Benson session was supposed to have been recorded in the early 70s and trotted back out 5+ years later when GB was more famous; it was a classic cash-in (exactly like the Otis Redding "You Left the Water Running" 45 on Stone). The earliness of the session might also render GB's "distinctive" sound moot.
They're talking about "Smokin' Cheeba Cheeba," which is on both Erotic Moods and Harlem Underground. I'm pretty sure that he WAS on the track, but there are so many layers of overdubs on both LPs that'd make it hard for Winley himself to recall who was whom. The Benson session was supposed to have been recorded in the early 70s and trotted back out 5+ years later when GB was more famous; it was a classic cash-in (exactly like the Otis Redding "You Left the Water Running" 45 on Stone). The earliness of the session might also render GB's "distinctive" sound moot.
GB had been putting out solo records (on Columbia) and appearing on sessions since the early 60s...
I'd suspected that he was talking about later GB - like when he REALLY blew up in the Warner years. I'm guessing that, either way, Winley just had recorded "jam sessions" with artists and that no contract or even, necessarily, visible mics were present.
Did Winley ever even face any legal ramifications from his repeated bootlegging of popular artists back in the day?? I'm thinking Cymande, Manu Dibango, etc
I suspect Winley was what lawyers refer to as judgment proof, meaning that even if the case is open and shut, he just wouldn't have had the money to pay up, so I doubt anybody pursued him.
And it was ghettomusic. No whiteys being booted. Check the skreets, the same shit is still going on now, but download Franz Ferdinand and you're going to court.
Did Winley ever even face any legal ramifications from his repeated bootlegging of popular artists back in the day?? I'm thinking Cymande, Manu Dibango, etc
wasn't cymande legitimally on Winley in the late 70's? the only cymande bootleg would be the bra/smoking cheeba cheeba 12", which would be Janus getting ripped off... which begs the question, since Suagrhill bought Chess, and Chess distributed Janus, at this point was Winley bootlegging money off Slyvia Robinson? somehow i doubt the web was that entangled, but it's an interesting thought...
Did Winley ever even face any legal ramifications from his repeated bootlegging of popular artists back in the day?? I'm thinking Cymande, Manu Dibango, etc
wasn't cymande legitimally on Winley in the late 70's? the only cymande bootleg would be the bra/smoking cheeba cheeba 12", which would be Janus getting ripped off... which begs the question, since Suagrhill bought Chess, and Chess distributed Janus, at this point was Winley bootlegging money off Slyvia Robinson?
Not really - Janus was technically a GRT label, so when Chess left GRT to go with Sylvia Robinson's All Platinum label, Janus stayed behind. (Hope all that technical mumbo-jumbo made sense!!)
Did Winley ever even face any legal ramifications from his repeated bootlegging of popular artists back in the day?? I'm thinking Cymande, Manu Dibango, etc
wasn't cymande legitimally on Winley in the late 70's? the only cymande bootleg would be the bra/smoking cheeba cheeba 12", which would be Janus getting ripped off... which begs the question, since Suagrhill bought Chess, and Chess distributed Janus, at this point was Winley bootlegging money off Slyvia Robinson?
Not really - Janus was technically a GRT label, so when Chess left GRT to go with Sylvia Robinson's All Platinum label, Janus stayed behind. (Hope all that technical mumbo-jumbo made sense!!)
perfectly. i figured something like that was going on...
Did Winley ever even face any legal ramifications from his repeated bootlegging of popular artists back in the day?? I'm thinking Cymande, Manu Dibango, etc
wasn't cymande legitimally on Winley in the late 70's? the only cymande bootleg would be the bra/smoking cheeba cheeba 12", which would be Janus getting ripped off... which begs the question, since Suagrhill bought Chess, and Chess distributed Janus, at this point was Winley bootlegging money off Slyvia Robinson?
Not really - Janus was technically a GRT label, so when Chess left GRT to go with Sylvia Robinson's All Platinum label, Janus stayed behind. (Hope all that technical mumbo-jumbo made sense!!)
I was under the impression that Winley did serve time in jail because of his busines dealings.
Why is there no good accurate info on Paul Winley anywhere? Is he still alive? Where is the soulstrut press corps? You guys need to track Winley down and get the true story.
Whether or not George Benson is on the Harlem Underground record it is a fantastic record. Cymande is a great group, Winley undoubtly put out the 12 at a time when the music was unavailable elsewhere. He also put out lots of other suspect releases that are not soul funk. Gloria Lynn is one I know of, I bet he did lots more on low budget cassettes. I have nothing but respect for his attempts to bring the music to the people. Though his means are suspect.
I think he did some doo wop recordings in the 50s too, unless that's a different Paul Winley. I've even seen his name on a 78, unless my memory is messing with me.
Comments
(please add on)
somebody once told me about a website called 'google' or something like that, never checked it out myself tho...
---
George Benson does not play on Harlem Underground.[/b]
I think Willis Jackson truely did. The other players I don't know anything they did outside of Harlem Underground. One of Paul Winley's Daughter sings on some cuts.
Dan
George Benson LP in question - Erotic Moods
http://www.soulstrut.com/reviews/crates/list.php?category=B&page=5
Willis Jackson LP in question - Willis Jackson Recording Session
http://www.soulstrut.com/reviews/crates/list.php?category=J
http://s61.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=34AO30WK7L9EM1QEVSW5PYM09P
say whuuut... nobody owns a copy of this 12inch???
although pretty sure this is with H.U.B, i just wanted to get it confirmed...
any rap experts in the house today?
Why does it say so on the album then?
and on discogs ?
See above, there is one song with Benson on it because Winley snatched it up from the Erotic Moods LP that he put out earlier.
I read somewhere that David Baby Cortez is on those Harlem Underground lp's too...
I've also heard that while Benson claims to have not played on these, he also apparently never bothered to sue Winley over it either.
Ah, hearsay.
Tell me the cut where you hear Benson's distinctive guitar. I was under the impression that he did sue, or at least his lawyers settled with PW lawyers.
Dave Cortez's name is also on the credits.
PErhaps Benson's name is on the credits because PW thought he could sell more records that way.
It's been a while since I've heard Erotic Moods, but I remember thinking that it also was not Benson. Isn't it essentially the same record as Harlem Underground?
One thing is for sure, Paul Winley never took Benson into the studio or had him under contract.
Paul Winley was a savy busines man who had his ear to the street. He did not always work with in the law.
Dan
Seriously--you can't infer that a claim is true just because the defamed party (or the party whose name/likeness was appropriated) never bothered to sue. Most times it's simply not worth the money or effort.
Look at where George Benson was in his career during the period that the Harlem Underground Band recording sounds like it dates from--why would he have bothered going into the studio for Paul Winley?
It also seems unlikely that Winley had any significant amount of cash or, if he did, that he would have been willing to part with it...
I suspect Winley was what lawyers refer to as judgment proof, meaning that even if the case is open and shut, he just wouldn't have had the money to pay up, so I doubt anybody pursued him.
They're talking about "Smokin' Cheeba Cheeba," which is on both Erotic Moods and Harlem Underground. I'm pretty sure that he WAS on the track, but there are so many layers of overdubs on both LPs that'd make it hard for Winley himself to recall who was whom. The Benson session was supposed to have been recorded in the early 70s and trotted back out 5+ years later when GB was more famous; it was a classic cash-in (exactly like the Otis Redding "You Left the Water Running" 45 on Stone). The earliness of the session might also render GB's "distinctive" sound moot.
GB had been putting out solo records (on Columbia) and appearing on sessions since the early 60s...
And it was ghettomusic. No whiteys being booted. Check the skreets, the same shit is still going on now, but download Franz Ferdinand and you're going to court.
He did bother to sue...
wasn't cymande legitimally on Winley in the late 70's? the only cymande bootleg would be the bra/smoking cheeba cheeba 12", which would be Janus getting ripped off... which begs the question, since Suagrhill bought Chess, and Chess distributed Janus, at this point was Winley bootlegging money off Slyvia Robinson? somehow i doubt the web was that entangled, but it's an interesting thought...
Not really - Janus was technically a GRT label, so when Chess left GRT to go with Sylvia Robinson's All Platinum label, Janus stayed behind. (Hope all that technical mumbo-jumbo made sense!!)
perfectly. i figured something like that was going on...
I was under the impression that Winley did serve time in jail because of his busines dealings.
Why is there no good accurate info on Paul Winley anywhere? Is he still alive? Where is the soulstrut press corps? You guys need to track Winley down and get the true story.
Whether or not George Benson is on the Harlem Underground record it is a fantastic record. Cymande is a great group, Winley undoubtly put out the 12 at a time when the music was unavailable elsewhere. He also put out lots of other suspect releases that are not soul funk. Gloria Lynn is one I know of, I bet he did lots more on low budget cassettes. I have nothing but respect for his attempts to bring the music to the people. Though his means are suspect.
Dan