soooo... you think its wrong that americans are holding POWs and torturing them?
i dont know. im kinda on the line with it to be honest. war is ugly. sometimes shit needs to get uglier when youre fighting a war. are they torturing for fun or because theyre bored? or are they doing it to gather information? id like to think the latter but really i dont know. chop a few heads off here and there and put it on the internet and you get in trouble nowadays?!?! this kinda shit has been going on with our military and other countries military forever...
really, torturing people is bad but when its business... well, business changes a lot of shit.
i was always told "get the the fucking job done or dont come back"... shit can get grimey out there is all im saying.
...and before someone asks, "are you serious!?!?!?"... yes, i am.
I've always wondered about people on the right who are pro-life and pro-death penalty. Seems like a contradiction to me.
Serious?
You know any unborn children who have raped and murdered people? I don't.
I sincerely hope you are kidding here and are not just mentally challenged. That is the dumbest thing I have ever read on this site.
Its actually pretty commonsensical.
Vs
Im ambivilant about the death penalty, but although i dont really like abortion, im still pro choice.
I guess I can respect your opinion here, but it basicly leaves a tremendous moral decision up to the united states government, one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. Why oh why would you give the government the right to execute its own citizens while simultaneously condeming a womens right to terminate a pregnancy?
Its important to stop thinking about these issues on a strictly personal and emotional fox news level and understand what the resulting legislation would do to our rights as citizens.
I've always wondered about people on the right who are pro-life and pro-death penalty. Seems like a contradiction to me.
Serious?
You know any unborn children who have raped and murdered people? I don't.
I sincerely hope you are kidding here and are not just mentally challenged. That is the dumbest thing I have ever read on this site.
Its actually pretty commonsensical.
Vs
Im ambivilant about the death penalty, but although i dont really like abortion, im still pro choice.
I guess I can respect your opinion here, but it basicly leaves a tremendous moral decision up to the united states government, one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. Why oh why would you give the government the right to execute its own citizens while simultaneously condeming a womens right to terminate a pregnancy?
Its important to stop thinking about these issues on a strictly personal and emotional fox news level and understand what the resulting legislation would do to our rights as citizens.
Please note, I am not in any way telling you that the way you feel is wrong or stupid, but you have to admit that your conclusion is a subjective one and is most certainly NOT just common sense.
soooo... you think its wrong that americans are holding POWs and torturing them?
i dont know. im kinda on the line with it to be honest. war is ugly. sometimes shit needs to get uglier when youre fighting a war. are they torturing for fun or because theyre bored? or are they doing it to gather information? id like to think the latter but really i dont know. chop a few heads off here and there and put it on the internet and you get in trouble nowadays?!?! this kinda shit has been going on with our military and other countries military forever...
really, torturing people is bad but when its business... well, business changes a lot of shit.
i was always told "get the the fucking job done or dont come back"... shit can get grimey out there is all im saying.
...and before someone asks, "are you serious!?!?!?"... yes, i am.
if torture was an effective way of getting info that would be one thing... but it's not.
US intelligence officers are dressing dudes in panties, ripping up korans & interrogating to death prisoners and the results seem slim at best.
regardless of what you feel about the 'war on terror' generally, it's being conducted incompetently.
soooo... you think its wrong that americans are holding POWs and torturing them?
i dont know. im kinda on the line with it to be honest. war is ugly. sometimes shit needs to get uglier when youre fighting a war. are they torturing for fun or because theyre bored? or are they doing it to gather information? id like to think the latter but really i dont know. chop a few heads off here and there and put it on the internet and you get in trouble nowadays?!?! this kinda shit has been going on with our military and other countries military forever...
really, torturing people is bad but when its business... well, business changes a lot of shit.
i was always told "get the the fucking job done or dont come back"... shit can get grimey out there is all im saying.
...and before someone asks, "are you serious!?!?!?"... yes, i am.
if torture was an effective way of getting info that would be one thing... but it's not.
US intelligence officers are dressing dudes in panties, ripping up korans & interrogating to death prisoners and the results seem slim at best.
regardless of what you feel about the 'war on terror' generally, it's being conducted incompetently.
---
Not to mention that there are probably several innocent people caught in those places, and held captive without trial and tortured just for being born in the wrong country, being confused, or being muslim.
And yes, war is always ugly. This "war on terror" is just particilarly ugly.
soooo... you think its wrong that americans are holding POWs and torturing them?
i dont know. im kinda on the line with it to be honest. war is ugly. sometimes shit needs to get uglier when youre fighting a war. are they torturing for fun or because theyre bored? or are they doing it to gather information? id like to think the latter but really i dont know. chop a few heads off here and there and put it on the internet and you get in trouble nowadays?!?! this kinda shit has been going on with our military and other countries military forever...
really, torturing people is bad but when its business... well, business changes a lot of shit.
i was always told "get the the fucking job done or dont come back"... shit can get grimey out there is all im saying.
...and before someone asks, "are you serious!?!?!?"... yes, i am.
if torture was an effective way of getting info that would be one thing... but it's not.
US intelligence officers are dressing dudes in panties, ripping up korans & interrogating to death prisoners and the results seem slim at best.
regardless of what you feel about the 'war on terror' generally, it's being conducted incompetently.
---
jinx has a little bit of a point, in that there's wiggle room for ethical standards when you're at "war," but the lyndie england bullshit is over the line.
biggest problem with torture and secret prisons is both of these are in violation of the geneva convention. the response to breaking the law shouldn't be a frank discussion about whether the law is right.
I've always wondered about people on the right who are pro-life and pro-death penalty. Seems like a contradiction to me.
Serious?
You know any unborn children who have raped and murdered people? I don't.
I sincerely hope you are kidding here and are not just mentally challenged. That is the dumbest thing I have ever read on this site.
Its actually pretty commonsensical.
Vs
Im ambivilant about the death penalty, but although i dont really like abortion, im still pro choice.
I guess I can respect your opinion here, but it basicly leaves a tremendous moral decision up to the united states government, one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. Why oh why would you give the government the right to execute its own citizens while simultaneously condeming a womens right to terminate a pregnancy?
Its important to stop thinking about these issues on a strictly personal and emotional fox news level and understand what the resulting legislation would do to our rights as citizens.
Please note, I am not in any way telling you that the way you feel is wrong or stupid, but you have to admit that your conclusion is a subjective one and is most certainly NOT just common sense.
I think we are both pretty much on the same page. I has trying to over simplify a very complex moral question. However, sometimes when you break an issue down to the basics the problem is no longer as complicated. I was just trying to say, that you can't really compare a nascent life to a mass murderer. What did the fetus, embryo, whatever do to get the death penalty besides being guilty of being conceived? At least the death row cat got to exercise his free will and the consequences that followed.
What's so creepy and sick about Cheney and his ilk, regarding this torture issue, is that there is no evidence that torture actually leads to useful and accurate information. In fact, it does the opposite. For example, people who are tortured often make shit up to get it to stop or just die before they can say anything useful.
What's so creepy and sick about Cheney and his ilk, regarding this torture issue, is that there is no evidence that torture actually leads to useful and accurate information. In fact, it does the opposite. For example, people who are tortured often make shit up to get it to stop or just die before they can say anything useful.
Also, there is no evidence that the death penalty reduces violent crime. Therefore, it is a form of vengance carried out on behalf of victims by the government. Supporters of the death penalty have to realize this and accept that they are doing very little to prevent violent crime.
What's so creepy and sick about Cheney and his ilk, regarding this torture issue, is that there is no evidence that torture actually leads to useful and accurate information. In fact, it does the opposite. For example, people who are tortured often make shit up to get it to stop or just die before they can say anything useful.
Youre right with this abughraib shit as well at some point after 9/11 there was a sortof go roughem up they deserve it, fent your frustration on those arabs type vibe being sent to troops holding prisoners. Well overlook it comon... its classic and horrible but pretty much the american way.
I was just trying to say, that you can't really compare a nascent life to a mass murderer. What did the fetus, embryo, whatever do to get the death penalty besides being guilty of being conceived?
this kind of logic is the real problem with the anti-choice crowd. Saying fetus is way off base because most abortions are done at the "tiny clump of cells" stage. They are not remotely similar to a living breathing creature. As a man i feel i have no right to dictate to woman what they should and shouldn't do with their bodies and neither should the government. Oh and this torture shit is ugly. I can only imagine what the press and the government would say if we were the ones being tortured...consistantly. We would be saying how barbaric and despicable these lowlife thugs are for treating humans this way.
What's so creepy and sick about Cheney and his ilk, regarding this torture issue, is that there is no evidence that torture actually leads to useful and accurate information. In fact, it does the opposite. For example, people who are tortured often make shit up to get it to stop or just die before they can say anything useful.
Typically, they'll say whatever it is they think their captors want them to say, which is like a double-whammy of bad looks. Bad look #1: torture. Bad look #2: having a tortured person tell you what you want to hear and then running with it as fact.
What's so creepy and sick about Cheney and his ilk, regarding this torture issue, is that there is no evidence that torture actually leads to useful and accurate information. In fact, it does the opposite. For example, people who are tortured often make shit up to get it to stop or just die before they can say anything useful.
Typically, they'll say whatever it is they think their captors want them to say, which is like a double-whammy of bad looks. Bad look #1: torture. Bad look #2: having a tortured person tell you what you want to hear and then running with it as fact.
...and the next thing you know, ny is shook because terrorists are supposedly going to blow up the subway with baby carriages filled with bombs.
At a certain point in time, that could have accurately described you.
Yes, it sure could've. Are you prepared to further assert that each tiny clump of cells is guaranteed to become a fully functional human being? At the tiny clump of cells stage, it's not a person, it's not sentient, it's not anything but, well, a tiny clump of cells. And if one wants to attempt the "sanctity of life" end-around, then one also must decry war and the death penalty to maintain any semblence of logical consistency.
One thing I know is there are no guarantees in anything in life. What I want to know is when do you think life ???officially??? starts, at conception, when the fetus is viable outside the womb, just when its pushed out the vag hole, or some other arbitrary point on a timeline?
What's so creepy and sick about Cheney and his ilk, regarding this torture issue, is that there is no evidence that torture actually leads to useful and accurate information. In fact, it does the opposite. For example, people who are tortured often make shit up to get it to stop or just die before they can say anything useful.
I have a lot to say about these issues, but I will try to keep it short today.
When we ok torture, and other activities that go beyond the Geneva convention, we put our soldiers, and intellegence officers, in a position where they will do things that will haunt them all their lives. In other words, we steal the humanity of well meaning Americans.
Jinx, there is a difference between things done in the heat of battle and what is done to prisoners. Geneva conventions are designed to protect the humanity of the prisoner and the guard.
One thing I know is there are no guarantees in anything in life. What I want to know is when do you think life ???officially??? starts, at conception, when the fetus is viable outside the womb, just when its pushed out the vag hole, or some other arbitrary point on a timeline?
The Bible is very clear about when life begins. Genises says that God made Adam. But Adam was not living until God breathed life into Adam. Thus we know that life begins at first breath.
Some people belive that life begins at the point that the fetus is viable out side of the womb. This stage keeps getting pushed back as care for premmies has quickly revolved.
I have a deep respect for people who are Pro-life, meaning they are opposed to war, death penality as well as abortion and end of life sucicide.
People who want the goverment to decide who lives and dies and when, I have little respect for.
soooo... you think its wrong that americans are holding POWs and torturing them?
i dont know. im kinda on the line with it to be honest. war is ugly. sometimes shit needs to get uglier when youre fighting a war. are they torturing for fun or because theyre bored? or are they doing it to gather information?[/b] id like to think the latter but really i dont know.
Does it matter? Torture is horrible no matter why (and to whom) it's done. There is no way to justify it. Ever. Because when you cross the line, there will always be an excuse to torture the next fellow...and the next one...and the next one.
I don't think many Americans realize that Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and other sad chapters in "the war on terror" have fucked up your reputation for good for decades and decades to come - everywhere.
Comments
Its actually pretty commonsensical.
Vs
i dont know. im kinda on the line with it to be honest. war is ugly. sometimes shit needs to get uglier when youre fighting a war. are they torturing for fun or because theyre bored? or are they doing it to gather information? id like to think the latter but really i dont know. chop a few heads off here and there and put it on the internet and you get in trouble nowadays?!?! this kinda shit has been going on with our military and other countries military forever...
really, torturing people is bad but when its business... well, business changes a lot of shit.
i was always told "get the the fucking job done or dont come back"... shit can get grimey out there is all im saying.
...and before someone asks, "are you serious!?!?!?"... yes, i am.
Im ambivilant about the death penalty, but although i dont really like abortion, im still pro choice.
I guess I can respect your opinion here, but it basicly leaves a tremendous moral decision up to the united states government, one of the most immoral organizations on the planet. Why oh why would you give the government the right to execute its own citizens while simultaneously condeming a womens right to terminate a pregnancy?
Its important to stop thinking about these issues on a strictly personal and emotional fox news level and understand what the resulting legislation would do to our rights as citizens.
Please note, I am not in any way telling you that the way you feel is wrong or stupid, but you have to admit that your conclusion is a subjective one and is most certainly NOT just common sense.
if torture was an effective way of getting info that would be one thing... but it's not.
US intelligence officers are dressing dudes in panties, ripping up korans & interrogating to death prisoners and the results seem slim at best.
regardless of what you feel about the 'war on terror' generally, it's being conducted incompetently.
---
Not to mention that there are probably several innocent people caught in those places, and held captive without trial and tortured just for being born in the wrong country, being confused, or being muslim.
And yes, war is always ugly. This "war on terror" is just particilarly ugly.
jinx has a little bit of a point, in that there's wiggle room for ethical standards when you're at "war," but the lyndie england bullshit is over the line.
biggest problem with torture and secret prisons is both of these are in violation of the geneva convention. the response to breaking the law shouldn't be a frank discussion about whether the law is right.
I think we are both pretty much on the same page. I has trying to over simplify a very complex moral question. However, sometimes when you break an issue down to the basics the problem is no longer as complicated. I was just trying to say, that you can't really compare a nascent life to a mass murderer. What did the fetus, embryo, whatever do to get the death penalty besides being guilty of being conceived? At least the death row cat got to exercise his free will and the consequences that followed.
co-sign. that shit only works in hollywood
Youre right with this abughraib shit as well at some point after 9/11 there was a sortof go roughem up they deserve it, fent your frustration on those arabs type vibe being sent to troops holding prisoners. Well overlook it comon... its classic and horrible but pretty much the american way.
Typically, they'll say whatever it is they think their captors want them to say, which is like a double-whammy of bad looks. Bad look #1: torture. Bad look #2: having a tortured person tell you what you want to hear and then running with it as fact.
...and the next thing you know, ny is shook because terrorists are supposedly going to blow up the subway with baby carriages filled with bombs.
At a certain point in time, that could have accurately described you.
Yes, it sure could've. Are you prepared to further assert that each tiny clump of cells is guaranteed to become a fully functional human being? At the tiny clump of cells stage, it's not a person, it's not sentient, it's not anything but, well, a tiny clump of cells. And if one wants to attempt the "sanctity of life" end-around, then one also must decry war and the death penalty to maintain any semblence of logical consistency.
I have a lot to say about these issues, but I will try to keep it short today.
When we ok torture, and other activities that go beyond the Geneva convention, we put our soldiers, and intellegence officers, in a position where they will do things that will haunt them all their lives. In other words, we steal the humanity of well meaning Americans.
Jinx, there is a difference between things done in the heat of battle and what is done to prisoners. Geneva conventions are designed to protect the humanity of the prisoner and the guard.
Dan
The Bible is very clear about when life begins. Genises says that God made Adam. But Adam was not living until God breathed life into Adam. Thus we know that life begins at first breath.
Some people belive that life begins at the point that the fetus is viable out side of the womb. This stage keeps getting pushed back as care for premmies has quickly revolved.
I have a deep respect for people who are Pro-life, meaning they are opposed to war, death penality as well as abortion and end of life sucicide.
People who want the goverment to decide who lives and dies and when, I have little respect for.
Dan
Does it matter? Torture is horrible no matter why (and to whom) it's done. There is no way to justify it. Ever. Because when you cross the line, there will always be an excuse to torture the next fellow...and the next one...and the next one.
I don't think many Americans realize that Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and other sad chapters in "the war on terror" have fucked up your reputation for good for decades and decades to come - everywhere.
what do you think about stem cell research ? how about masturbation ? isn't every sperm a potential human ?