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Business ethics (NRR)

ayoayo 44 Posts
edited October 2005 in Strut Central
This is a long story so i will try and condense it as much as possible. a family member of mine started out in a new business about a year ago. i have a friend in this family members business so i told my family member that since this person has been doing the same job as him for a few years that he should contact them and pick their brain to see if he can offer any help. well, as it turned out some kind of arrangement was made between their two companies and now my family member will be making approx. an extra $5,000-$10,000 a month because of the contact that i introduced him to. I told him that i felt it was only fair to give back some of that to me because it never would have happened if i didnt introduce them. well, my family member thought taking me to a nice dinner was sufficient and my feeling was that a nice dinner ($50-$80)doesnt coincide with the magnitude of what he is now going to be making off of this introduction($5-10k a month). i felt a % of his extra income was more along the lines of what i thought was fair and he basically told me to f#ck off. This is now starting a family conflict and i just wanted to get some opionions on whether or not u guys think some money should be given back to the person who introduced the two parties to procure this transation.
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  Comments

  • ArtifactorArtifactor 887 Posts
    I think they should have done it on their own. A gift or anything would be gret IMO. But earning them that much more and them not giving you jack is wack.
  • sabadabadasabadabada 5,966 Posts
    10%

    but usually you agree to these things before you perform.
  • mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
    be cool

    try to get good with them, maybe get a better job out of the whole thing?


    starting a feud will not help

  • DocBeezyDocBeezy 1,918 Posts
    you should get a finders fee for it. It shouldnt be steady, but perhaps a one time payment.
  • ayoayo 44 Posts
    well, i know lawyers get 1/3 for refurring cases to other lawyers. other business refurral fee's can be up to 50%. There is no doubt in my mind that i am entitled to something but it would never hold up in a court of law and if this prick insists on giving me nothing i cant do much about it.
  • Otis_FunkmeyerOtis_Funkmeyer 1,321 Posts
    Sounds like you gave your family member a phone number and they worked out a deal on their own. I don't think you should get a piece of his salary unless you'll be hooking him up like that on a regular basis.

    It just seems like the thing that family members should do for each other without asking too much in return.
  • DocBeezyDocBeezy 1,918 Posts
    Sounds like you gave your family member a phone number and they worked out a deal on their own. I don't think you should get a piece of his salary unless you'll be hooking him up like that on a regular basis.

    It just seems like the thing that family members should do for each other without asking too much in return.

    oh wait. I guess I didnt realize that. If you just passed along a phone number you should have enjoyed that meal.
  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    i reluctantly hooked up a childhood friend with a big scale narcotics salesman back in 1997. every time they made a transaction, i was given $100 from each party... until there was a falling out, and the associates of my friend murdered said salesman. i still feel haunted for getting involved in anyway. in relation to your situation, just because you introduced your family member to an opportunity, the family member sealed the deal (by successfully/adequately filling the position). you're not entitled to anything, and if you let it come between you, you'll end up getting a whole lot less in the long run.
  • ArtifactorArtifactor 887 Posts
    Ohh he did take you to dinner. Nevermind. I think that is cool. A gift along with it would've been dope but ehh.
  • ayoayo 44 Posts
    listen: IF NOT FOR ME, THERE WOULD BE NO TRANSACTION... NO DEAL AT ALL. Why shouldn't he give back to the one who brought the parties together? a dinner is an insult as far as im concerned.
  • 33thirdcom33thirdcom 2,049 Posts
    listen: IF NOT FOR ME, THERE WOULD BE NO TRANSACTION... NO DEAL AT ALL. Why shouldn't he give back to the one who brought the parties together? a dinner is an insult as far as im concerned.


    Because if you wanted a piece of the action you should have settled that before you brought the parties together. As a gesture he/she should look out and it would be nice, but because you slipped up and didn't get yourself into the deal before hand, you really don't have anything to stand on. You can hold a grudge but what good is that going to do? Chalk it up to experience and next time get shit in writing and get your cut.
  • DocBeezyDocBeezy 1,918 Posts
    listen: IF NOT FOR ME, THERE WOULD BE NO TRANSACTION... NO DEAL AT ALL. Why shouldn't he give back to the one who brought the parties together? a dinner is an insult as far as im concerned.

    well then you are just not going to be happy then are you?

    you didnt do the leg work helping orchestrate the deal. YOu just let them know of eachother....all under no type of pre-arranged deal to get a certain percent.
  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    listen: IF NOT FOR ME, THERE WOULD BE NO TRANSACTION... NO DEAL AT ALL. Why shouldn't he give back to the one who brought the parties together? a dinner is an insult as far as im concerned.

    You sound angry & greedy. Go out and get your own $$$!
  • DubiousDubious 1,865 Posts
    dude if you wanted a finders fee you shoukld have put it on the table first.

    you cant go back and demand it after the fact man.

  • youngEINSTEINyoungEINSTEIN 2,443 Posts
    1. never mix family and business
    2. deals are made before business is done
    3. your payment is knowing you helped a family member
    4. if your going to be feeling owed for everything, are teacher/family members that taught you valuable lessons in life entitled to a percentage of everything you ever make?
    5. you did get payed with the experience.
    peace, stein. . .
  • El_MezcalitoEl_Mezcalito 312 Posts
    In my business experience, introductions are usually done as favors. It is usually understood that the favor will be repaid in some way, maybe cash, maybe something else (job?). Without agreeing on a fee beforehand he may have thought you did it out of the goodness of your heart. The classy thing to do, in my opinion, would be to act as if you did it b/c you're the man, and you're always doing great things for people and you don't want anything for it. Thats a good reputation to have whether you get paid or not. Eventually, if he's not an ass, he'll be so impressed by you that he'll feel obligated to express his appreciation in cash or other ways. If he never pays, the business community will know you were the man and your fam was selfish - then maybe someone else will want to hire you.

    And introductions don't necessarily = business deals. He may think that you helped, but it was his genius that closed the deal, therefore he feels he takes more credit than you for the deal. ?? But I agree feuds won't help.
  • Otis_FunkmeyerOtis_Funkmeyer 1,321 Posts
    listen: IF NOT FOR ME, THERE WOULD BE NO TRANSACTION... NO DEAL AT ALL. Why shouldn't he give back to the one who brought the parties together? a dinner is an insult as far as im concerned.

    You brought about the contact, but you didn't make the deal. Some companies hire people (or other companies) to get business and they go and make presentations and take the clients out and get them laid and stuff. They (and whoever actually landed the deal for your family member) deserve a commission. Not you.
  • GambleGamble 844 Posts
    listen: IF NOT FOR ME, THERE WOULD BE NO TRANSACTION... NO DEAL AT ALL. Why shouldn't he give back to the one who brought the parties together? a dinner is an insult as far as im concerned.

    BAN


    on the real though dude, this is some petty, fake, little dude bullshit. You should be ashamed for even wanting a cut.You helped out a friend and a family member. Leave it at that.

    A very close friend of mine wanted commisions on beats of mine becuase he passed on a cd for me. I told him fuck it, and declined to sell any of the tracks. Its basically ruined our friendship.

  • GambleGamble 844 Posts
    The classy thing to do, in my opinion, would be to act as if you did it b/c you're the man, and you're always doing great things for people and you don't want anything for it.

    The classy thing to do isnt acting like you did it out of kindness... the classy thing is to actually have done it out of kindness.
  • DJCireDJCire 729 Posts
    1. never mix family and business

    1. never mix family and business

    1. never mix family and business



    Its never worth the feud. Do something cuz you want to, not cuz you want something in return and if so, then you gotta mention that up-front. Basic business practices, it has nothing to do with ethics...
  • ayoayo 44 Posts
    i introduced them obviously with the intention that my family member would gain something from it. as far as closing the deal, my family member did nothing other than sit in a meeting with his boss and my friends boss while they did all the work. After he told me what was going on i fully disclosed i expect something if a transaction is worked out but since it wasnt likely to close i didnt think my own family member would scumbag me out once it did. This is essentially found money for him. But 10k a month is more than 90% of the people on this board make and to give back a little bit to show appreciation i dont think is asking too much.
  • street_muzikstreet_muzik 3,919 Posts
    Money comes and goes, family is for ever ('til someone dies). Seriously, If dude got run over by a car today (knock on wood), would it be worth it to be angry. Move on, learn, and live.
  • DJCireDJCire 729 Posts
    to give back a little bit to show appreciation i dont think is asking too much.

    What do you think would be sufficient?
  • DubiousDubious 1,865 Posts

    A very close friend of mine wanted commisions on beats of mine becuase he passed on a cd for me. I told him fuck it, and declined to sell any of the tracks. Its basically ruined our friendship.

    that's easliy the wackest thing i've ever heard

  • 33thirdcom33thirdcom 2,049 Posts
    i introduced them obviously with the intention that my family member would gain something from it. as far as closing the deal, my family member did nothing other than sit in a meeting with his boss and my friends boss while they did all the work. After he told me what was going on i fully disclosed i expect something if a transaction is worked out but since it wasnt likely to close i didnt think my own family member would scumbag me out once it did. This is essentially found money for him. But 10k a month is more than 90% of the people on this board make and to give back a little bit to show appreciation i dont think is asking too much.

    well here is a problem too. You made it sound before as if your family member owned the company. But the above says differently? The deal may earn the company 5-10K more a month, but that doesn't mean your family member rally got anything more than a pat on the back and a good job. If that is the case you helped him/her look good for their boss, and helped the company out, but in the end the winner is the company and your fam may not have gotten anything out of the deal?

    If I am reading it wrong, lemme know, but still I think you're being short sighted with the ROI. You should ahve made it clear up front before even passing off the contact and that is the issue. Even half way through its already over.
  • ayoayo 44 Posts
    to give back a little bit to show appreciation i dont think is asking too much.



    What do you think would be sufficient?



    no, that 5-10k is my family members cut.



    maybe my opinion is a bit skewed because i work in a refurral driven business.



    a lead or phone number is worth 10%

    a guaranteed deal w/ an exclusive contract can be worth up to 50%



    i know attorneys who rely on refurrals and give up to 1/3 for cases refurred.



    for this... i would say 10% is fair and not greedy in the least. if the shoe was on the ohter foot i would write a check so fast people's heads would spin.
  • 33thirdcom33thirdcom 2,049 Posts
    yeh but isn't all fo that agreed upon before the deals are in place.ie. if you refer me this then i will give you x%? I didn't see in your story where that discussion took place.
  • neil_somethingneil_something 993 Posts
    just out of curiosity, if as a result of the introduction you made the company lost money would you hold your hands up and say, fair enough, i got everyone together so i'll cover a percentage of the loss...?
  • Big_ChanBig_Chan 5,088 Posts
    ayo,

    What is a refurral? I'm a little confused by that word and the spelling of it. Maybe your relative could get you microsoft word with spell check as a present

  • DJCireDJCire 729 Posts
    yeh but isn't all fo that agreed upon before the deals are in place.ie. if you refer me this then i will give you x%? I didn't see in your story where that discussion took place.

    Exactly

    Plus 10% of that transaction would be $500-$1000 per month if you want to talk specifics. I think it should be one flat fee

    And I work in a referral driven business too. I'm in sales, cover mad territory and everything is stated upfront. Handing me a phone number doesn't grant you any commission, you gotta close the deal (even if the person is explicitly interested). F*ck, at least you got dinner! Good luck though man, this is always a tough one. I don't think there's much you can do now. Either it has to be stated up front or you lose out (obviously).
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