I guess I could say I've been into underground hip-hop and rap music in general for a long time now, and I remember getting mad that hip-hop was getting "ruined" in the late nineties. ( as they they, the furrowed fondle 'em brow?) You know, just hating stuff on principle I suppose. Then I realized I need to lighten up a little bit and have some fun with the music and quit falsely assuming what is 'real"...trying not to dislike before listening, etc. Needless to say I feel much better now.
Frankly, I am amazed that non-Americans love Hip Hop so much, because I seriously cannot seperate it from American Culture, and specifically Black American culture. Maybe that's why people dig it, I don't know. For myself, I was moved by Hip Hop to a certain degree while living a completely White life in Minneapolis, but I failed to grasp it with much of any actual understanding until I moved to DC and interacted personally with Black people and Black culture on a daily basis. But that's cuz I am slow. I guess it's like anything, something moves you and you apply it...just curious.
True hip hop just hits you in the heart & it made me appreciate a shitload more music & world culture than any other musical form did. This is 21 years ago. Besides, it seems that other countries versions of hip hop enables a lot of youth to create many things that they may never have had a chance to. The fucking snobbery against it shits me.
Even Keb Darge snapped out of his distaste for it once he started to realise that some of the heads were actually into good music. We all know it's black music, we all know it came from th South Bronx, we all know it came out of frustration, we know this yet people can be so dismissive of its history. Just like I bought Cold Crush Brothers in 84, I may buy Pack FM in 2005. There's always good shit around. i didn't even know what jazz, funk or soul was in 1984. But I sure as hell do now. Hip hop haters go tear yourselves a new one. Seems like it's cool to diss it. But then if all you guys are hearing is Lil Jon, then I don't blame you. Like Bambaataa & Herc said. Hip hop is Universal. For all people. And I'm going to listen to them before I give a flying fuck what some shithead in Bubblefuck Town utters.
but dont write it off. hiphop still has, and always will have its moments.
i only have about 6 hip hop 12"s that i play out, but that doesn't reflect my knowledge of the music and its history. i just don't aquire alot of hip hop. i still like to hear it when it comes out. if i really need to get down with it, i'll buy it.
last new thing i took home for analysis was... "wale oyejide" on fatbeats. instrumentals lp. pretty good, maybe rhymes would help. favorite tune is "third world anthem" afro funk mpc action.
i have some hip hop, but it's hardly my strong point. much more interested and knowledgeable in the general areas of 60's and 70's soul, jazz, and rock.
Frankly, I am amazed that non-Americans love Hip Hop so much, because I seriously cannot seperate it from American Culture, and specifically Black American culture. Maybe that's why people dig it, I don't know. For myself, I was moved by Hip Hop to a certain degree while living a completely White life in Minneapolis, but I failed to grasp it with much of any actual understanding until I moved to DC and interacted personally with Black people and Black culture on a daily basis. But that's cuz I am slow. I guess it's like anything, something moves you and you apply it...just curious.
Liking it and understanding it are two different things, though, and a lot of those European dudes pledging undying devotion to rap clearly don't understand much about it.
Liking it and understanding it are two different things, though, and a lot of those European dudes pledging undying devotion to rap clearly don't understand much about it.
I love Edan don't get me wrong, but that album is NOT rap music's only saving grace...good lord!
Word.
Peoples talking like Edan be saving hip hop or something. He???s dope and has made a good album (all his old stuff is good too). But there???s still plenty of other guys making decent shit, that just don???t seem to have been given the attention Edans received.
Liking it and understanding it are two different things, though, and a lot of those European dudes pledging undying devotion to rap clearly don't understand much about it.
I'd like to see you step up to someone in Paris, London or Berlin & tell them that.
Why do you think true hip hop acts tour more over there than in the US? They love the shit with a passion that the Americans have lost. Kool Herc hung out here for a month & said he noticed the true love for the culture was deep. We all have our differences in each version of the culture.
Check the scene in Ghana, Kenya, Nigeria, Senegal, etc...
People like Reggie Rockstone, Daara J, Trybesman are making some of the best hip hop on the planet.
Think the Americans give a shit ...nope.
Native Canadian hip hop is some of the most hard hitting poignant socially relevant hip hop at the moment.
Think anyone gives a shit..seems not.
So maybe just leave it to the Europeans to appreciate it.
Wasn't it 2 Germans who started Blue Note, because they saw a lack of interest in Jazz in its own homeland. I'm not saying they were saviours are anything. Just don't dismiss a continents love for something & saying 'they don't get it'.
Why do you think washed up[/b] hip hop acts tour more over there than in the US? They buy the shit that americans have lost intrest in. Kool Herc hung out here for amonth & said "thanks for the check... i mean cheque"
Why do you think washed up[/b] hip hop acts tour more over there than in the US? They buy the shit that americans have lost intrest in. Kool Herc hung out here for amonth & said "thanks for the check... i mean cheque"
Yeah be a cynical kunt mate. The crown looks good on top of your head. Who said anything about 'washed up' artists. I'm talking like acts who have just come out. Heck some have even moved there because they get no love at home. Maylay Sparks, Grand Agent, Fat Jon, etc...
Ha, if you knew how much Herc wanted then you wouldn't be saying such ignorant shit.
Yeah be a cynical kunt mate. The crown looks good on top of your head.
Who said anything about 'washed up' artists. I'm talking like acts who have just come out.
Heck some have even moved there because they get no love at home. Maylay Sparks, Grand Agent, Fat Jon, etc...
Ha, if you knew how much Herc wanted then you wouldn't be saying such ignorant shit.
You're reaffirming my point. These artists speak so highly of "the culture" that supports them in other countries, not hip hop culture, the culture of money. They get no love at home because their careers are past their peaks (herc) or they were never that good or relevant to begin with (grand agent? if you truly think maylay sparks or grand agent are the epitome of what hip hop can be you're just solidifying the fact that a lot of foreigners just don't understand)
It doesn't matter how much (or little) kool herc is asking there is no way he could sucessfully tour the united states right now. so he goes to europe, australia, japan, etc. where he can get paid. he loves the culture there because it's what sustains his existance. and i'm glad these countries exist because herc deserves some kind of compensation for his accomplishments. but the fact that he can still tour there does not make foriegners some sort of well informed conosiours of hip hop, who are rescuing the remains of a culture that america has abandoned. it just means you guys about two decades late.
hip hop is not antiquated, it's not a trend, it's not a collectors item or an artifact to hang on a wall. it's constantly moving, it has since the day it was born. keeping it true to hip hop is not keeping it true to these ficticious hip hop values. a kid in harlem listening to a jim jones mixtape is keeping it true. a kid in germany at a crash crew reunion show trying to recreate something they never experienced 20+ years ago is chasing a ghost. both are having a good time, and that's cool to an extent, but for the later to belittle the former as somehow losing sight of the world that his ancestors created and he is currently living in is downright disgusting.
despite what krs would like you to think it cannot be simplified into four elements. it's a product of so many delicate factors good and bad that make america an exciting place to live in. you can try to synthesize that, but it's not going to be the same until you've witnessed it first hand.
is it frusturating to me that nobody knows "the choice is yours" anymore? hell fucking yeah. but that's the nature of musical evolution. if americans exclusively reliving pasts instead of creating futures we wouldn't have started hip hop in the first place.
if you heads want to think i'm being myopic or geocentric or whatever, that's fine. but it's frightening and offensive to me to experience people who have never even been to america trying to dictate the factors that make a decidedly american art form true or real. it's even more frightening when people half way around the world who barely speak english and have only seen black people on album covers think they can fully understand hip hop because they bought a pair of shell toes and a maurauder and the fury record off ebay.
as a white guy in america i've always tried to approach hip hop from the perspective of an informed outsider. i would hope that someone half way around the world would have at least the same amount of respect.
Nuff respect & that is more like the response I would expect from yourself.
I hear you & you make valid points. But can you seriously tell me that hip hop in the US has not been distorted by a few factors. We all know that in the mid to late 90's the music made a huge turn once the second wave of major labels got in on the action. Warners tried with Cold Chillin in the late 80's & pretty much failed becasue they didn't know what to do with it. I was still buying just as much music, but for some reason none of that music was getting any attention. Magazines like the Source started ignoring it & went with the labels taht had teh cash to promote their big glossy new artist, then mixtape deejays without any skills came out, radio stations srated palying tracks that labels gave them money. Only a few artista like De La Soul have persisted & still make contemporarily relevant music. Or are they 'washed up' old schoolers?
The perception of the culture thas changed. Maybe all of us overseas hold on tight to a culture that has changed, but one isn't convinced about that wen you hear the same complaints, teh same insights, the same dramas, the same discussions from many US artists. Seems like straight up good hip hop has become 'Underground' hip hop'. So Dilated Peoples are old school remants? They are one of the few who still hold the core values of the culture while still maintaining some kind of a profile with the general public. Someone like O.C. just puts out an awesome album, yet straight away it gets relegated to 'it sounds so early 90s'. Still a fucking dope album with great songs. Kanye does it with Common's new song & it's like the best thing. Yet it sounds early 90s. Who gives a monkeys?
And no I'm not saying that Maylay & G.Agent are representative. They just came to mind of artists who moved O.S.
You might as well accuse the magazine that we do down here, Stealth of being a 'Golden Age' bible, when in fact all we pretty much do is write about new artists that don''t seem to fit in the mould of what 'should' be popular. Why would we feature Fiddy or even worse The Game when my 8 year old cousin is bopping her head & loving that shit just like ever second MTV watcher is doing. There is so much music out there that is ridiculusly good, but falls through teh cracks becasue of budget constraints. Having someone like Herc come out here was more for respect for the man than for his now limited talents on the decks. it's about recognising something & paying attention to the history of the music.
So what, I b-boyed, I made a name for myself in graff, i produce, deejay, blah blah, wank, wank, etc... Other kids are doing the same today. You have events like B-Boy Summit, Freestyle Sessions, Scribble Jam which represent all the 'Element's where 2000 kids come together & share experiences enjoyment, etc.. And all I hear is derisory comments. i don't see what teh problem is with these scenarios. There just seems to be a certain degree of almightyness about those who don't partake or even enjoy. I may be older, but I don't spend all my time on Gemm looking through Freddy Fresh's book trying to find sounds that will remind me of my childhood. I just like what the culture represents to me. The same that it did back in 1984. Unity, creativity & self expression.
Of course I'm going to have an entirely different opinion than someone else from the US country & more sepecifically from someone who grew up in th Bronx. Bloody obvious. But it's the differences taht make it interesting.
Good discussion bro. peace IP btw: And yeah i bought 'Get Loose Mother Goose" on Public when it came out. lol
Read this excellent article from Reginald C Dennis that was posted up yesterday. It may be 20,000 words but it's a fascinating insight. http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/features/id.406
and yeah, I'm just a dumb Aussie who know jackshit. I beat whoever to it... lol
Frankly, I am amazed that non-Americans love Hip Hop so much, because I seriously cannot seperate it from American Culture, and specifically Black American culture. Maybe that's why people dig it, I don't know. For myself, I was moved by Hip Hop to a certain degree while living a completely White life in Minneapolis, but I failed to grasp it with much of any actual understanding until I moved to DC and interacted personally with Black people and Black culture on a daily basis. But that's cuz I am slow. I guess it's like anything, something moves you and you apply it...just curious.
Liking it and understanding it are two different things, though, and a lot of those European dudes pledging undying devotion to rap clearly don't understand much about it.
In wades ambassador Faux with a typically glib assessment of music and popular culture. By that same extension Americans just can't hope to understand The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, The Jam, Cymande, Alan Hawkshaw, Sabbath, Small Faces, Pistols, PiL, Radiohead, The Clash, Massive Attack, Portishead, Coldplay, The Buzzcocks, Stone Roses, Happy Mondays, Bowie, The Kinks, Donovan, Yardbirds, Led Zep, Dusty Springfield Etc Etc Etc Etc...
I mean, if you don't have first hand experience of the culture they came from, how can you ever expect to love and understand the music and anything that they've influenced? I've seen enough Americans talk about these bands/artists like they grew up next door to them, which is totally cool with me as I'm not a narrow minded cretin.
Why do you think washed up[/b] hip hop acts tour more over there than in the US? They buy the shit that americans have lost intrest in. Kool Herc hung out here for amonth & said "thanks for the check... i mean cheque"
Frankly, I am amazed that non-Americans love Hip Hop so much, because I seriously cannot seperate it from American Culture, and specifically Black American culture. Maybe that's why people dig it, I don't know. For myself, I was moved by Hip Hop to a certain degree while living a completely White life in Minneapolis, but I failed to grasp it with much of any actual understanding until I moved to DC and interacted personally with Black people and Black culture on a daily basis. But that's cuz I am slow. I guess it's like anything, something moves you and you apply it...just curious.
Liking it and understanding it are two different things, though, and a lot of those European dudes pledging undying devotion to rap clearly don't understand much about it.
In wades ambassador Faux with a typically glib assessment of music and popular culture. By that same extension Americans just can't hope to understand The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, The Jam, Cymande, Alan Hawkshaw, Sabbath, Small Faces, Pistols, PiL, Radiohead, The Clash, Massive Attack, Portishead, Coldplay, The Buzzcocks, Stone Roses, Happy Mondays, Bowie, The Kinks, Donovan, Yardbirds, Led Zep, Dusty Springfield Etc Etc Etc Etc...
I mean, if you don't have first hand experience of the culture they came from, how can you ever expect to love and understand the music and anything that they've influenced? I've seen enough Americans talk about these bands/artists like they grew up next door to them, which is totally cool with me as I'm not a narrow minded cretin.
ypu know, when he says "
lot of those European dudes pledging undying devotion to rap clearly don't understand much about it.
in a way, the american dude above is telling the truth.......the success of Hip Hop, in so big way with shit pumped by all radios ,Mtv etc...it is slightly suspect....
....and I'm not talkin of the serious lover who understand and do his thing..
.......I'm talkin of the average joe, h-e-a-v-y exposure to EMINEM videos and hearing EMINEM on radio and see EMINEM to popular festivals, and not understanding what he is talkin (rapping) abt .........it is very grotesque especially when you think that Hip Hop has a lot more meaning and content in the lyrics-area more than the "instrumental" area.....(and that's the main difference with jazz, funk and other mainly instrumental-languages that every people from all over the world can fully appreciate)
so my question is......how can you make Hip Hop so successful as today in not english based countries, if people can't understand the message ?..that 's weird
Yeah be a cynical kunt mate. The crown looks good on top of your head. Who said anything about 'washed up' artists. I'm talking like acts who have just come out. Heck some have even moved there because they get no love at home. Maylay Sparks, Grand Agent, Fat Jon, etc...
Ha, if you knew how much Herc wanted then you wouldn't be saying such ignorant shit.
You're reaffirming my point. These artists speak so highly of "the culture" that supports them in other countries, not hip hop culture, the culture of money. They get no love at home because their careers are past their peaks (herc) or they were never that good or relevant to begin with (grand agent? if you truly think maylay sparks or grand agent are the epitome of what hip hop can be you're just solidifying the fact that a lot of foreigners just don't understand)
It doesn't matter how much (or little) kool herc is asking there is no way he could sucessfully tour the united states right now. so he goes to europe, australia, japan, etc. where he can get paid. he loves the culture there because it's what sustains his existance. and i'm glad these countries exist because herc deserves some kind of compensation for his accomplishments. but the fact that he can still tour there does not make foriegners some sort of well informed conosiours of hip hop, who are rescuing the remains of a culture that america has abandoned. it just means you guys about two decades late.
hip hop is not antiquated, it's not a trend, it's not a collectors item or an artifact to hang on a wall. it's constantly moving, it has since the day it was born. keeping it true to hip hop is not keeping it true to these ficticious hip hop values. a kid in harlem listening to a jim jones mixtape is keeping it true. a kid in germany at a crash crew reunion show trying to recreate something they never experienced 20+ years ago is chasing a ghost. both are having a good time, and that's cool to an extent, but for the later to belittle the former as somehow losing sight of the world that his ancestors created and he is currently living in is downright disgusting.
despite what krs would like you to think it cannot be simplified into four elements. it's a product of so many delicate factors good and bad that make america an exciting place to live in. you can try to synthesize that, but it's not going to be the same until you've witnessed it first hand.
is it frusturating to me that nobody knows "the choice is yours" anymore? hell fucking yeah. but that's the nature of musical evolution. if americans exclusively reliving pasts instead of creating futures we wouldn't have started hip hop in the first place.
if you heads want to think i'm being myopic or geocentric or whatever, that's fine. but it's frightening and offensive to me to experience people who have never even been to america trying to dictate the factors that make a decidedly american art form true or real. it's even more frightening when people half way around the world who barely speak english and have only seen black people on album covers think they can fully understand hip hop because they bought a pair of shell toes and a maurauder and the fury record off ebay.
as a white guy in america i've always tried to approach hip hop from the perspective of an informed outsider. i would hope that someone half way around the world would have at least the same amount of respect.
I agree with every word, except for your spelling of "connoisseurs"...
Frankly, I am amazed that non-Americans love Hip Hop so much, because I seriously cannot seperate it from American Culture, and specifically Black American culture. Maybe that's why people dig it, I don't know. For myself, I was moved by Hip Hop to a certain degree while living a completely White life in Minneapolis, but I failed to grasp it with much of any actual understanding until I moved to DC and interacted personally with Black people and Black culture on a daily basis. But that's cuz I am slow. I guess it's like anything, something moves you and you apply it...just curious.
Liking it and understanding it are two different things, though, and a lot of those European dudes pledging undying devotion to rap clearly don't understand much about it.
In wades ambassador Faux with a typically glib assessment of music and popular culture. By that same extension Americans just can't hope to understand The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, The Jam, Cymande, Alan Hawkshaw, Sabbath, Small Faces, Pistols, PiL, Radiohead, The Clash, Massive Attack, Portishead, Coldplay, The Buzzcocks, Stone Roses, Happy Mondays, Bowie, The Kinks, Donovan, Yardbirds, Led Zep, Dusty Springfield Etc Etc Etc Etc...
I mean, if you don't have first hand experience of the culture they came from, how can you ever expect to love and understand the music and anything that they've influenced? I've seen enough Americans talk about these bands/artists like they grew up next door to them, which is totally cool with me as I'm not a narrow minded cretin.
Did I at any point say that it was impossible for people in other countries to understand rap?
Frankly, I am amazed that non-Americans love Hip Hop so much, because I seriously cannot seperate it from American Culture, and specifically Black American culture. Maybe that's why people dig it, I don't know. For myself, I was moved by Hip Hop to a certain degree while living a completely White life in Minneapolis, but I failed to grasp it with much of any actual understanding until I moved to DC and interacted personally with Black people and Black culture on a daily basis. But that's cuz I am slow. I guess it's like anything, something moves you and you apply it...just curious.
Liking it and understanding it are two different things, though, and a lot of those European dudes pledging undying devotion to rap clearly don't understand much about it.
In wades ambassador Faux with a typically glib assessment of music and popular culture. By that same extension Americans just can't hope to understand The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, The Jam, Cymande, Alan Hawkshaw, Sabbath, Small Faces, Pistols, PiL, Radiohead, The Clash, Massive Attack, Portishead, Coldplay, The Buzzcocks, Stone Roses, Happy Mondays, Bowie, The Kinks, Donovan, Yardbirds, Led Zep, Dusty Springfield Etc Etc Etc Etc...
I mean, if you don't have first hand experience of the culture they came from, how can you ever expect to love and understand the music and anything that they've influenced? I've seen enough Americans talk about these bands/artists like they grew up next door to them, which is totally cool with me as I'm not a narrow minded cretin.
Did I at any point say that it was impossible for people in other countries to understand rap?
Objection overruled, will the clerk please strike that from the record
Only a few artista like De La Soul have persisted & still make contemporarily relevant music. Or are they 'washed up' old schoolers?
for the most part, yes. outside of early 90s throwback cats and a handful of college kids not a lot of people are checking for de la soul right now. they are relevant to these niches for sure, but not to the music listening audience as a whole.
The perception of the culture thas changed. Maybe all of us overseas hold on tight to a culture that has changed, but one isn't convinced about that wen you hear the same complaints, teh same insights, the same dramas, the same discussions from many US artists. Seems like straight up good hip hop has become 'Underground' hip hop'. So Dilated Peoples are old school remants? They are one of the few who still hold the core values of the culture while still maintaining some kind of a profile with the general public. Someone like O.C. just puts out an awesome album, yet straight away it gets relegated to 'it sounds so early 90s'. Still a fucking dope album with great songs. Kanye does it with Common's new song & it's like the best thing. Yet it sounds early 90s. Who gives a monkeys?
i don't know what it's like over there, but if you were to play an "average american hip hop listener" a dilated peoples tape odds are they wouldn't be all that into it. and rightfully so, because by modern american standards they just aren't very good rappers.
So what, I b-boyed, I made a name for myself in graff, i produce, deejay, blah blah, wank, wank, etc...
i think it's great that people in other countries are doing these things. my point is that someone should not assume just because they do any of/all these things that they somehow share a greater connection to HIP HOP CULTURE (or what they desire it or perceive it to be) than anyone else who just buys the records and enjoys them. especially when their perception is so far removed from a modern day reality.
and there are quite a few americans that are at fault for perpetuating these myths (dilated, for one), and that's why you have dudes in kansas tagging barns in the name of hip hop. that's really no different than germans doing the same thing. i'm talking about a cultural disconnect here, not an exclusively ethnic one.
Only a few artista like De La Soul have persisted & still make contemporarily relevant music. Or are they 'washed up' old schoolers?
for the most part, yes. outside of early 90s throwback cats and a handful of college kids not a lot of people are checking for de la soul right now. they are relevant to these niches for sure, but not to the music listening audience as a whole.
The perception of the culture thas changed. Maybe all of us overseas hold on tight to a culture that has changed, but one isn't convinced about that wen you hear the same complaints, teh same insights, the same dramas, the same discussions from many US artists. Seems like straight up good hip hop has become 'Underground' hip hop'. So Dilated Peoples are old school remants? They are one of the few who still hold the core values of the culture while still maintaining some kind of a profile with the general public. Someone like O.C. just puts out an awesome album, yet straight away it gets relegated to 'it sounds so early 90s'. Still a fucking dope album with great songs. Kanye does it with Common's new song & it's like the best thing. Yet it sounds early 90s. Who gives a monkeys?
i don't know what it's like over there, but if you were to play an "average american hip hop listener" a dilated peoples tape odds are they wouldn't be all that into it. and rightfully so, because by modern american standards they just aren't very good rappers.
So what, I b-boyed, I made a name for myself in graff, i produce, deejay, blah blah, wank, wank, etc...
i think it's great that people in other countries are doing these things. my point is that someone should not assume just because they do any of/all these things that they somehow share a greater connection to HIP HOP CULTURE (or what they desire it or perceive it to be) than anyone else who just buys the records and enjoys them. especially when their perception is so far removed from a modern day reality.
and there are quite a few americans that are at fault for perpetuating these myths (dilated, for one), and that's why you have dudes in kansas tagging barns in the name of hip hop. that's really no different than germans doing the same thing. i'm talking about a cultural disconnect here, not an exclusively ethnic one.
I gotta go back and REALLY read all this, but Noz is summing up a lot of my thoughts on this. My original thought was NOT that I thought that non-Americans appreciation/participation in rap music was WACK, just that it surprises me.
Comments
Isn't it a roughly 34-minute-long experience?
Besides, it seems that other countries versions of hip hop enables a lot of youth to create many things that they may never have had a chance to. The fucking snobbery against it shits me.
Even Keb Darge snapped out of his distaste for it once he started to realise that some of the heads were actually into good music.
We all know it's black music, we all know it came from th South Bronx, we all know it came out of frustration, we know this yet people can be so dismissive of its history.
Just like I bought Cold Crush Brothers in 84, I may buy Pack FM in 2005. There's always good shit around.
i didn't even know what jazz, funk or soul was in 1984. But I sure as hell do now.
Hip hop haters go tear yourselves a new one.
Seems like it's cool to diss it. But then if all you guys are hearing is Lil Jon, then I don't blame you.
Like Bambaataa & Herc said. Hip hop is Universal. For all people.
And I'm going to listen to them before I give a flying fuck what some shithead in Bubblefuck Town utters.
i only have about 6 hip hop 12"s that i play out, but that doesn't reflect my knowledge of the music and its history. i just don't aquire alot of hip hop. i still like to hear it when it comes out. if i really need to get down with it, i'll buy it.
last new thing i took home for analysis was... "wale oyejide" on fatbeats. instrumentals lp. pretty good, maybe rhymes would help. favorite tune is "third world anthem" afro funk mpc action.
Liking it and understanding it are two different things, though, and a lot of those European dudes pledging undying devotion to rap clearly don't understand much about it.
cue the "we fuck everything" jpeg.
Word.
Peoples talking like Edan be saving hip hop or something.
He???s dope and has made a good album (all his old stuff is good too).
But there???s still plenty of other guys making decent shit, that just don???t seem to have been given the attention Edans received.
I'd like to see you step up to someone in Paris, London or Berlin & tell them that.
Why do you think true hip hop acts tour more over there than in the US? They love the shit with a passion that the Americans have lost. Kool Herc hung out here for a month & said he noticed the true love for the culture was deep. We all have our differences in each version of the culture.
Check the scene in Ghana, Kenya, Nigeria, Senegal, etc...
People like Reggie Rockstone, Daara J, Trybesman are making some of the best hip hop on the planet.
Think the Americans give a shit ...nope.
Native Canadian hip hop is some of the most hard hitting poignant socially relevant hip hop at the moment.
Think anyone gives a shit..seems not.
So maybe just leave it to the Europeans to appreciate it.
Wasn't it 2 Germans who started Blue Note, because they saw a lack of interest in Jazz in its own homeland. I'm not saying they were saviours are anything. Just don't dismiss a continents love for something & saying 'they don't get it'.
Yeah be a cynical kunt mate. The crown looks good on top of your head.
Who said anything about 'washed up' artists. I'm talking like acts who have just come out.
Heck some have even moved there because they get no love at home. Maylay Sparks, Grand Agent, Fat Jon, etc...
Ha, if you knew how much Herc wanted then you wouldn't be saying such ignorant shit.
You're reaffirming my point. These artists speak so highly of "the culture" that supports them in other countries, not hip hop culture, the culture of money. They get no love at home because their careers are past their peaks (herc) or they were never that good or relevant to begin with (grand agent? if you truly think maylay sparks or grand agent are the epitome of what hip hop can be you're just solidifying the fact that a lot of foreigners just don't understand)
It doesn't matter how much (or little) kool herc is asking there is no way he could sucessfully tour the united states right now. so he goes to europe, australia, japan, etc. where he can get paid. he loves the culture there because it's what sustains his existance. and i'm glad these countries exist because herc deserves some kind of compensation for his accomplishments. but the fact that he can still tour there does not make foriegners some sort of well informed conosiours of hip hop, who are rescuing the remains of a culture that america has abandoned. it just means you guys about two decades late.
hip hop is not antiquated, it's not a trend, it's not a collectors item or an artifact to hang on a wall. it's constantly moving, it has since the day it was born. keeping it true to hip hop is not keeping it true to these ficticious hip hop values. a kid in harlem listening to a jim jones mixtape is keeping it true. a kid in germany at a crash crew reunion show trying to recreate something they never experienced 20+ years ago is chasing a ghost. both are having a good time, and that's cool to an extent, but for the later to belittle the former as somehow losing sight of the world that his ancestors created and he is currently living in is downright disgusting.
despite what krs would like you to think it cannot be simplified into four elements. it's a product of so many delicate factors good and bad that make america an exciting place to live in. you can try to synthesize that, but it's not going to be the same until you've witnessed it first hand.
is it frusturating to me that nobody knows "the choice is yours" anymore? hell fucking yeah. but that's the nature of musical evolution. if americans exclusively reliving pasts instead of creating futures we wouldn't have started hip hop in the first place.
if you heads want to think i'm being myopic or geocentric or whatever, that's fine. but it's frightening and offensive to me to experience people who have never even been to america trying to dictate the factors that make a decidedly american art form true or real. it's even more frightening when people half way around the world who barely speak english and have only seen black people on album covers think they can fully understand hip hop because they bought a pair of shell toes and a maurauder and the fury record off ebay.
as a white guy in america i've always tried to approach hip hop from the perspective of an informed outsider. i would hope that someone half way around the world would have at least the same amount of respect.
I hear you & you make valid points. But can you seriously tell me that hip hop in the US has not been distorted by a few factors. We all know that in the mid to late 90's the music made a huge turn once the second wave of major labels got in on the action. Warners tried with Cold Chillin in the late 80's & pretty much failed becasue they didn't know what to do with it. I was still buying just as much music, but for some reason none of that music was getting any attention. Magazines like the Source started ignoring it & went with the labels taht had teh cash to promote their big glossy new artist, then mixtape deejays without any skills came out, radio stations srated palying tracks that labels gave them money. Only a few artista like De La Soul have persisted & still make contemporarily relevant music. Or are they 'washed up' old schoolers?
The perception of the culture thas changed. Maybe all of us overseas hold on tight to a culture that has changed, but one isn't convinced about that wen you hear the same complaints, teh same insights, the same dramas, the same discussions from many US artists. Seems like straight up good hip hop has become 'Underground' hip hop'. So Dilated Peoples are old school remants? They are one of the few who still hold the core values of the culture while still maintaining some kind of a profile with the general public. Someone like O.C. just puts out an awesome album, yet straight away it gets relegated to 'it sounds so early 90s'. Still a fucking dope album with great songs. Kanye does it with Common's new song & it's like the best thing. Yet it sounds early 90s. Who gives a monkeys?
And no I'm not saying that Maylay & G.Agent are representative. They just came to mind of artists who moved O.S.
You might as well accuse the magazine that we do down here, Stealth of being a 'Golden Age' bible, when in fact all we pretty much do is write about new artists that don''t seem to fit in the mould of what 'should' be popular. Why would we feature Fiddy or even worse The Game when my 8 year old cousin is bopping her head & loving that shit just like ever second MTV watcher is doing. There is so much music out there that is ridiculusly good, but falls through teh cracks becasue of budget constraints. Having someone like Herc come out here was more for respect for the man than for his now limited talents on the decks. it's about recognising something & paying attention to the history of the music.
So what, I b-boyed, I made a name for myself in graff, i produce, deejay, blah blah, wank, wank, etc... Other kids are doing the same today. You have events like B-Boy Summit, Freestyle Sessions, Scribble Jam which represent all the 'Element's where 2000 kids come together & share experiences enjoyment, etc.. And all I hear is derisory comments. i don't see what teh problem is with these scenarios. There just seems to be a certain degree of almightyness about those who don't partake or even enjoy. I may be older, but I don't spend all my time on Gemm looking through Freddy Fresh's book trying to find sounds that will remind me of my childhood. I just like what the culture represents to me. The same that it did back in 1984. Unity, creativity & self expression.
Of course I'm going to have an entirely different opinion than someone else from the US country & more sepecifically from someone who grew up in th Bronx. Bloody obvious. But it's the differences taht make it interesting.
Good discussion bro.
peace
IP
btw: And yeah i bought 'Get Loose Mother Goose" on Public when it came out. lol
Read this excellent article from Reginald C Dennis that was posted up yesterday. It may be 20,000 words but it's a fascinating insight.
http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/features/id.406
and yeah, I'm just a dumb Aussie who know jackshit. I beat whoever to it... lol
In wades ambassador Faux with a typically glib assessment of music and popular culture. By that same extension Americans just can't hope to understand The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, The Jam, Cymande, Alan Hawkshaw, Sabbath, Small Faces, Pistols, PiL, Radiohead, The Clash, Massive Attack, Portishead, Coldplay, The Buzzcocks, Stone Roses, Happy Mondays, Bowie, The Kinks, Donovan, Yardbirds, Led Zep, Dusty Springfield Etc Etc Etc Etc...
I mean, if you don't have first hand experience of the culture they came from, how can you ever expect to love and understand the music and anything that they've influenced? I've seen enough Americans talk about these bands/artists like they grew up next door to them, which is totally cool with me as I'm not a narrow minded cretin.
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that's true for me too
.......in the middle, not far from Rome........
ypu know, when he says " in a way, the american dude above is telling the truth.......the success of Hip Hop, in so big way with shit pumped by all radios ,Mtv etc...it is slightly suspect....
....and I'm not talkin of the serious lover who understand and do his thing..
.......I'm talkin of the average joe, h-e-a-v-y exposure to EMINEM videos and hearing EMINEM on radio and see EMINEM to popular festivals, and not understanding what he is talkin (rapping) abt .........it is very grotesque especially when you think that Hip Hop has a lot more meaning and content in the lyrics-area more than the "instrumental" area.....(and that's the main difference with jazz, funk and other mainly instrumental-languages that every people from all over the world can fully appreciate)
so my question is......how can you make Hip Hop so successful as today in not english based countries, if people can't understand the message ?..that 's weird
I agree with every word, except for your spelling of "connoisseurs"...
Did I at any point say that it was impossible for people in other countries to understand rap?
Objection overruled, will the clerk please strike that from the record
for the most part, yes. outside of early 90s throwback cats and a handful of college kids not a lot of people are checking for de la soul right now. they are relevant to these niches for sure, but not to the music listening audience as a whole.
i don't know what it's like over there, but if you were to play an "average american hip hop listener" a dilated peoples tape odds are they wouldn't be all that into it. and rightfully so, because by modern american standards they just aren't very good rappers.
i think it's great that people in other countries are doing these things. my point is that someone should not assume just because they do any of/all these things that they somehow share a greater connection to HIP HOP CULTURE (or what they desire it or perceive it to be) than anyone else who just buys the records and enjoys them. especially when their perception is so far removed from a modern day reality.
and there are quite a few americans that are at fault for perpetuating these myths (dilated, for one), and that's why you have dudes in kansas tagging barns in the name of hip hop. that's really no different than germans doing the same thing. i'm talking about a cultural disconnect here, not an exclusively ethnic one.
I gotta go back and REALLY read all this, but Noz is summing up a lot of my thoughts on this. My original thought was NOT that I thought that non-Americans appreciation/participation in rap music was WACK, just that it surprises me.