I tried to like dude. Had that X record for a minute. Sucks. All of it.
For whatever it's worth, I will say that this one is better than Metal Machine Music.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
In defense of Mr Metheny:
Now, that's what I'm talking about. I bet Pat (yep, it's still "Pat" over here) didn't have to wait until any of those guys were long dead, then sneak into the studio at night to do his overdubs either.
I understand why his shit polarises opinion the way it does, though. I used to feel the same way about the guy, until I gave his shit a proper listen. Over time, I became a fan not of everything he's done, but certainly enough to have heard all the familiar criticisms of his shit. This isn't to say that anyone who dislikes him just hasn't listened to him properly - merely that I think there's a bit more to what he does - even the noodly stuff - than some of the more widely-held assumptions would have you believe.
i also like his trio date with Dave Holland and Roy Haynes.
while his style is certainly not my favorite, and some of his records aren't so hot, certain selections of his are so undeniably close to or representative of the truth that it's hard to imagine fans of real jazz dismissing them (see his version of "Lonely Woman" from Rejoicing)
I think maybe what this boils down to is a case of individuals having different opinions, not all of whom realize or acknowledge the concept that their own opinion is not conclusive or applicable to other people.
And I say this with the confidence that Metheny' detractors who have participated in this discussion have constructively and open-mindedly listened to the recordings referred to herein, and others [/sarcasm].
Lastly, I would like to profess my penchant for forming my opinions regardless of the opinions of others. HOWEVER, with that said, if I were to be influenced by the opinion of others, I would be more likely to be influenced by those of such individuals as Ornette Coleman, Roy Haynes, Dave Holland, Jack DeJohnette, Gary Burton, etc, who all seem to respect Mr. Metheny, over and above those of you clowns (excepting Mr. M. Stark)
I think there's a bit more to what he does - even the noodly stuff - than some of the more widely-held assumptions would have you believe.
I agree with that. I wouldn't call the guy total fluff or anything. For me its more a matter of taste than ability/complexity/depth/etc. I simply haven't heard anything that I've really enjoyed ... I'll continue to keep my ears open though.
Funny, this thread reminds me of a recent conversation I had in which my friend and I decided that Pat Metheny was the true originator of punk ... i.e. there would be no need for punk without guys like Pat Metheny.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
I tried to like dude. Had that X record for a minute. Sucks. All of it.
For whatever it's worth, I will say that this one is better than Metal Machine Music.
I won't try to test your free-jazz gangsta as far as Song X is concerned, except to say that my first real exposure to Ornette was as a 19-year-old in the Prime Time era, via Of Human Feelings, so I'm cool with some of that stuff no matter who's involved. Still, the biggest shock I got when I first heard that record was that "Pat" was on it. No matter what else you may think about him, he's not scared to stretch himself.
I think maybe what this boils down to is a case of individuals having different opinions, not all of whom realize or acknowledge the concept that their own opinion is not conclusive or applicable to other people.
And this differs from every other thread in the history of SoulStrut how?
Sometimes I wish ostriches could fly. Because I bet there would be nothing in the world like the sight of a flock of ostriches flying by. Especially at sunset.
I think maybe what this boils down to is a case of individuals having different opinions, not all of whom realize or acknowledge the concept that their own opinion is not conclusive or applicable to other people.
That quote so needs to be turned into a Super Graemlin ... perhaps even a Soul Strut t-shirt.
I can noodle a fair bit. Noodling can be good. But I like my Allan Holdsworth noodles, some Frank Gambale "Live" noodles. Wayne Krantz, even. I find the Metheny noodles a bit... I dunno... "Hokey"? I mean he has reached the level where he can just play what he hears but doesn't float my boat.
Can't knock the Joni "Hejira" stuff though. That band was like the Fantastic Four. But with more people. And none that looked like they were made out of a dried-up riverbed.
I can get behind Kenny G takedowns (and my god, he really overdubbed on a all-time Louis Armstrong track? he deserved it). But cannot hang with the man's music.
Comments
For whatever it's worth, I will say that this one is better than Metal Machine Music.
Now, that's what I'm talking about. I bet Pat (yep, it's still "Pat" over here) didn't have to wait until any of those guys were long dead, then sneak into the studio at night to do his overdubs either.
I understand why his shit polarises opinion the way it does, though. I used to feel the same way about the guy, until I gave his shit a proper listen. Over time, I became a fan not of everything he's done, but certainly enough to have heard all the familiar criticisms of his shit. This isn't to say that anyone who dislikes him just hasn't listened to him properly - merely that I think there's a bit more to what he does - even the noodly stuff - than some of the more widely-held assumptions would have you believe.
Doesn't this dude "Garth" look like a young Charlie Haden here, as well as Scott Storch?
while his style is certainly not my favorite, and some of his records aren't so hot, certain selections of his are so undeniably close to or representative of the truth that it's hard to imagine fans of real jazz dismissing them (see his version of "Lonely Woman" from Rejoicing)
I think maybe what this boils down to is a case of individuals having different opinions, not all of whom realize or acknowledge the concept that their own opinion is not conclusive or applicable to other people.
And I say this with the confidence that Metheny' detractors who have participated in this discussion have constructively and open-mindedly listened to the recordings referred to herein, and others [/sarcasm].
Lastly, I would like to profess my penchant for forming my opinions regardless of the opinions of others. HOWEVER, with that said, if I were to be influenced by the opinion of others, I would be more likely to be influenced by those of such individuals as Ornette Coleman, Roy Haynes, Dave Holland, Jack DeJohnette, Gary Burton, etc, who all seem to respect Mr. Metheny, over and above those of you clowns
I agree with that. I wouldn't call the guy total fluff or anything. For me its more a matter of taste than ability/complexity/depth/etc. I simply haven't heard anything that I've really enjoyed ... I'll continue to keep my ears open though.
Funny, this thread reminds me of a recent conversation I had in which my friend and I decided that Pat Metheny was the true originator of punk ... i.e. there would be no need for punk without guys like Pat Metheny.
I won't try to test your free-jazz gangsta as far as Song X is concerned, except to say that my first real exposure to Ornette was as a 19-year-old in the Prime Time era, via Of Human Feelings, so I'm cool with some of that stuff no matter who's involved. Still, the biggest shock I got when I first heard that record was that "Pat" was on it. No matter what else you may think about him, he's not scared to stretch himself.
And this differs from every other thread in the history of SoulStrut how?
That quote so needs to be turned into a Super Graemlin ... perhaps even a Soul Strut t-shirt.
TAKE YOR FACE OFF!
^^^^^BAN MAN WALKING
Can't knock the Joni "Hejira" stuff though. That band was like the Fantastic Four. But with more people. And none that looked like they were made out of a dried-up riverbed.
Jaco was the human torch - dude was straight
These are all essential for my dad. Letter from home in particular used to bug the shit out of me on roadtrips with the fam back in the day. Pass.
He ripped kenny g though. A diss record would have been better though.
i was gonna say the exact same thing-- this lp is ace. one side of hypnotic train noises and a b side of extreme guitar over dubbing. murderation.
p.f.f.f.t.
Pffft.
the entirety of my pat metheny knawledge... constipated neanderthal vocalizations
http://www.jazzoasis.com/methenyonkennyg.htm
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak