great track, but... why isn't it in 4/4?
generique
625 Posts
I just read an article on the appreciation of different rhythms in different cultures. Apparently that what you conceive to be a "normal" rhythm, was somehow stamped in your brain when you where 6 to 12 months old. At that age all different rhythms are experienced equal, as language. After that age you stick to what's normal in your culture. I was in Turkey at this open air party and these very young kids where clapping their hands perfectly on the beat. The band was - I think - switching between 5/4 and 7/8 (I'm not sure those are the proper terms). I was struggling to get my hands clapping and needed higher algebra to do so, you know?Now, when I was still making beats etc. I loved to sample odd rhythms and chop them up to straight 4/4. Nobody would guess the sample. But in the end, mostly when a band tries odd rhythms, I'm thinking: wow, great track, why isn't it in 4/4! I mean, can you dance to Led Zeppelin's The Crunge? Well, it's not going on that much nowadays. I think I have one track by Amon Tobin that's in 5/4, but otherwise, is it done at all? Do people even still do tracks in threes? I love walses. Jazz in threes 
Comments
~B
1-2-3 1-2
instead of
1-2-3-4 1
It has that 3/4 waltz kind of feel to it. Maybe when songs try to have that 4/4 feel and just throw in an extra beat at the end, it's harder to get into.
The first song on Radiohead "Kid A" (Everything in its Right Place) is in like 10/8 or 15/8 or some completely ridiculous time signature which makes it super hard to try and sing along with... but that hasn't stopped me yet.
THERE .......... ARE ... TWO COLORS IIIIIIN MY HEAAAAD.
1+2+3+4
After that portion, it moves into 5/4
It then goes back to 1+2+3+4
Then 3/4
Then 1+2+3+4
Then 3/4
Then 1+2+3+4
And fades out with the 3/4 beat
Jazzanova did it on their last album with "Hanazono" where the beats went:
11/4
3/4
5/4
In fact, my song is my reply to "Hanazono". With luck, it will surface in some form.
can we hear it?
m
That's a good explanation. I think in prog and fusion they often simply add a beat to a 4/4 groove and you're pretty much dangling at the end of every bar. Whereas here it's kind of natural. Also, the melody is just so catchy the way it is.
The Crunge is terrific! What's the story here? It's clearly a spoof. I love it too.
I guess these odd rhythms were experimented with at a time when these musicians had that genius vibe going. It was apparently hip to play for genius. Plus, these weird rhythms probably were an answer to all that abstract space age stuff of the times. Like the cover for Brubeck's Time Out. Thinking man's space age music. An answer to abstract paintings and sculptures and small particle science and what have you.
But again, jazz in three is killing me at the moment. It always makes for that optimistic vibe. Right now I'm listening to Waltz my Son by Dick Griffin (Now is the time on Trident). I think easy to find and a great album.
Thanks for the link, I'll read that thread.
"The Crunge" begins with 9/4, and then to 4/4, and back to 9/4
I think the Western ear automatically tunes into 4/4 and 3/4, so 5/4 is not too far off. That's why I love Indian classical music, because you have rhythms withim rhythms, and even half-bars. Ravi Shankar once did a song in honor of the 50th anniversary of the independence of India, and the time measures were 3+4+5+6+7, repeated twice. The sum of that equals 50. So I borrowed that idea and went 3+4+5+6+7+7+6+5+4+3.
I also think that's why jazz confuses a lot of people. The music is generally 3/4 or 4/4, but the drummer is also thinking of how to play within the measures, it's always math. If they are playing a blues, then they know it's 3/4, with a 4-bar measure, sometimes played six times. A drummer can go anywhere with that mathematically.
Or listen to Tony Williams and a lot of Miles Davis stuff, where you know you're hearing 4/4 but you have no idea when the measure will end. It's not unlike a loop, but you're having to watch and hear Miles or whomever is doing the solo, but inbetween you're just playing around with beat and time. With a tight band, a drummer can do anything, and the members of the band will get a feel for when the drummer will come back and return to form.
I'm interested to hear. Indians took it to a
John Bonham was a HUGE James Brown fan, and a fan of a lot of soul from the mid to late 60's. So "The Crunge" is a slight parody, but honors the music of, James Brown. They're getting into a groove, but for some reason they can't find the bridge.
The soul influence in Bonham's drumming is obvious, because no one had quite played that way in a rock setting. Mitch Mitchell, Ginger Baker, and Charlie Watts were jazz based. With Bonham, you not only had the showmanship and finesse of a soul/funk drummer, but you also had the power, not only with his hands, but in the one foot he used for the bass drums.
A lot of soul/funk drummers were also jazz influenced, so the emphasis on what to do with the bass drum was something Bonham admired.
Anyway, I've gone on too long with this.
another easily digestible 5/4 song: the mission impossible theme
a very easily digestible 7/8 song: pink floyd's "money"...flows so well i didnt even notice it wasnt 4/4 all the way through till i actually paid attention while my dad was listening to some classic rock station...
i love songs in different time signatures that flow so well you dont even notice.
however, i generally do NOT love songs written in different time signatures for the sake of being "weird" or just because they wanted to do something in 17/16 or whatever for no good reason. generally songs like this have no flow whatsoever because they didnt even try. but, different strokes for different folks.
i LOVE just about any song in 3/4. easily my favorite time signature.
if youre into this stuff, check out don ellis or...this one guy, i cant remember his name. well, dave brubeck was into weird time signatures too. lots of people were i guess. but im thinking of this one dude, ahhh well, ill think of it. he had some album on UNI called "new time element"..weird time signatures with strange fractions and stuff...then for humor's sake a cover of "take five" that was in almost completely 4/4...
Sure. Quick storyline.
When I made this song, I was going through some serious shit in my life. I'll be honest, I was depressed, and I did not know if I was going to make it out, or how. I was a fucking mess, let's put it that way. I was listening to a lot of Indian classical music simply to unwind, which is funny since Indian classical music requires a lot of concentrated thought.
Anyway, I had asked myself if this is all that life would offer me, or if this was all I could/can do. If so, I said if there is such a thing as a next life, then I offer a cheers to the next life, maybe there's something better there.
I was also listening Jazzanova's In Between[/b] album a lot, but someone never went past "No Use", as I liked it and the singer (Clara Hill) a lot. Then I got to "Hanazono". It reminded me a lot of not only Indian music, but a lot of jazz coming out of Japan. The guy who played the piano also has some music on his own that was a bit complex.
There was always talk about another song which had complex beats, and the idea that "4/4 is easy, doing it in other measures is the true challenge". That's when I decided to do a song on my own, and thus "To The Next Life".
When I started the song, it's supposed to sound a bit dark. Then when the beat changes at the 2:04 mark, things are supposed to get "brighter". Being a fan of surfing, I always admired how they will take the risk to get onto a wave, and "into the tube" not knowing if they will make it through or not. That felt very much like a metaphor of my life at the time, and by the time I finished segment of the song that's in a 5/4 time measure, it reminded me of someone going through the tube in slow motion. There's a point within where it sounds like the tube is about to close up. It wasn't my intention, but it fit perfectly so it stayed.
When the beat changes again at the 5:13 mark, it's the next phase. I've made it out of the tube, now what? Next life, next phase? The song fades.
If the finished mix is ever chosen for release, I would like to also release it as a 5.1 surround sound mix. I would not mind adding a DJ to segments of this, so if anyone has any ideas, I can make the track a joint effort.
Anyway, here it is:
http://rapidshare.de/files/4471013/Crut_-_To_The_Next_Life.mp3.html
Don Ellis, yes. Electric Bath[/b] and his Fillmore East albums are great. Ellis was heavily influenced by Indian classical music, and he did stuff that was 4+3+4+2??. I guess to a degree it was doing it just because he could, but he also helped expand the limits of how jazz, or any music, could be played. I guess in a way it says if you're a musician, you can play 4/4 and 3/4 without much thought. But try doing it in a unique time measure, and keep it going for a long duration, or at the kind of speeds Ellis was known for. "Final Analysis" is a perfect example, and yet he and his bands did it.
Frank Zappa did a lot of that as well during his jazz phase, and it wasn't just with one song, but throughout the entire performance where they would play 30 to 45 minutes non-stop. Zappa's compositions weren't simple either. A good example of this is You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore Vol.1: The Helsinki Concerts[/b]. Zappa made his albums like "edit-pieces", something that was only possible in the studio. Then he told his band to duplicate it live.
Emil Richards! the album is all pop hits done in odd time signatures. the stuff works surprisingly well in the times too! gotta find this album in my collection again. its not something that gets a lot of play by any means, but its definitely an interesting listen.
I have to check this out. Is his stuff relatively easy to find? Perhaps I should find out myself.
i dont know much about the guy, i only have this one album, which ive only seen once...but it cant be THAT hard to find. my copy was $2 from a dealer who knew his stuff. check ebay perhaps? he probably has other albums out but what do i know.
I will do that.