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Blue Note Pressing Question

finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
edited February 2011 in Strut Central
Can someone enlighten me how to find out whether a blue note record is original or a repress?
I find it all quite confusing... What's the deal with that "Van Gelder" "Ear" stamp in the runout groove?

What does a "New York" label indicate and what does it look like?

I'm trying to find out at the moment if I have this version

http://www.popsike.com/DEXTER-GORDON-A-SWINGING-AFFAIR-BLUE-NOTE-CLASSIC/230496420882.html

or another one.

The only difference I can spot to mine is the missing "Van Gelder" stamp.

  Comments

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    finelikewine said:
    Can someone enlighten me how to find out whether a blue note record is original or a repress?
    I find it all quite confusing... What's the deal with that "Van Gelder" "Ear" stamp in the runout groove?

    What does a "New York" label indicate and what does it look like?

    I'm trying to find out at the moment if I have this version

    http://www.popsike.com/DEXTER-GORDON-A-SWINGING-AFFAIR-BLUE-NOTE-CLASSIC/230496420882.html

    or another one.

    The only difference I can spot to mine is the missing "Van Gelder" stamp.

    This whole issue is very complicated and the things that determine whether it's an OG vary throughout the years and from record to record, plus there are many exceptions and anomalies.

    If you don't have a 'Van Gelder' or 'RVG' stamp on that record then you have a much later pressing that isn't worth more than $20 or so. It's a great album, though.

    The 'ear' is actually a squiggly, fat letter 'P' that stands for Plastilyte, the pressing plant used by Blue Note in their heyday, you can see it on old Folkways and other records also.

    A 'New York' label just lists New York USA as the address rather than the whole street number.
  • finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
    Thanks! But that record doesn't feel at all like a repress. It smells old, has thick cover and heavy vinyl with that blue & white new york label... Strange one...

    I have anothe one about I'm not sure whether it's a repress or a original: Art Blakey Orgy In Rhythm 2
    It shares the sam label code like those selling for $$$ on ebay, but on the cover there is a print "liberty records"
    Does this indicate something?
  • DCarfagnaDCarfagna 983 Posts
    http://ronpenndorf.com/labelography.html
  • fishmongerfunkfishmongerfunk 4,154 Posts
    finelikewine said:
    on the cover there is a print "liberty records"
    Does this indicate something?

    that means it's an early 70's repress. just because it smells old and has thick cardboard doesn't make it an og.
  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    finelikewine said:
    It shares the sam label code like those selling for $$$ on ebay

    Most of the time the catalog number for the release remains the same, even if its an issue from 10, 20, 30 years later... and I don't mean just for Blue Note, I mean across the board.
  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    It's possible, not uncommon, that the labels and the cover don't match up. NY label, Liberty cover. That's why people who pay money for these want to know, dead wax and other pressing variations, like deep groove, and flat edge. The label does not tell you where or when it was pressed.
  • finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    It's possible, not uncommon, that the labels and the cover don't match up. NY label, Liberty cover. That's why people who pay money for these want to know, dead wax and other pressing variations, like deep groove, and flat edge. The label does not tell you where or when it was pressed.

    Can anyone tell me how to see a records if a record has a "deep grove" and a "flat edge"?

    This is the one I have:



    "RVG" and the "ear" is etched in runout groove, the vinyl & the cover are very heavy.

    I'm not sure if this is an og mono copy or not. Can anyone help?
  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    finelikewine said:
    LaserWolf said:
    It's possible, not uncommon, that the labels and the cover don't match up. NY label, Liberty cover. That's why people who pay money for these want to know, dead wax and other pressing variations, like deep groove, and flat edge. The label does not tell you where or when it was pressed.

    Can anyone tell me how to see a records if a record has a "deep grove" and a "flat edge"?

    This is the one I have:



    "RVG" and the "ear" is etched in runout groove, the vinyl & the cover are very heavy.

    I'm not sure if this is an og mono copy or not. Can anyone help?

    The 'Deep Groove' is the indentation on the label right outside the address. It needs to be a canal, and not just a ridge, which is the case here. The 'flat edge' is pretty much what it sounds like - the edge of the record where the lead in groove is is flat, with no raised lip that is standard on later pressings. It looks like you have a true first press if the edge is flat.
  • buttonbutton 1,475 Posts
    Correct me if I get anything wrong here: The two main collectable Blue Note series are the 1500s and the 4000s. 1500's came earlier (late-50s) and OGs will always have an address. If you have an OG feeling 1500 with a NY USA label it is an early-60s repress. The tricky part on addresses is whether its the Lexington adress or the 47w address. The earliest 1500s have the lexington address. later 1500s only have the 47w address. Very early represses of 1500 lexington LPs will have the 47w adress. Does that make sense?

    Also, its hard to tell on your pic because of that time stamp, but if there's a little ?? on the label under the word NOTE, it might not be an OG but a very early 2nd pressing. A lot of Blue Note buyers seem to not be aware of this and only look at the label address. You can search popsike by price for the expensive pressings of this and see that it does exist without the little R registered mark thing

    http://www.popsike.com/ART-BLAKEY-ORGY-IN-RHYTHM-ONE-BLUE-NOTE-LP-DEEP-GRVE/110553267493.html

    It looks like it has the deep groove ring around the label, which I think every OG and early repressing of 1500s should have.
  • finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
    button said:
    Correct me if I get anything wrong here: The two main collectable Blue Note series are the 1500s and the 4000s. 1500's came earlier (late-50s) and OGs will always have an address. If you have an OG feeling 1500 with a NY USA label it is an early-60s repress. The tricky part on addresses is whether its the Lexington adress or the 47w address. The earliest 1500s have the lexington address. later 1500s only have the 47w address. Very early represses of 1500 lexington LPs will have the 47w adress. Does that make sense?

    Also, its hard to tell on your pic because of that time stamp, but if there's a little ?? on the label under the word NOTE, it might not be an OG but a very early 2nd pressing. A lot of Blue Note buyers seem to not be aware of this and only look at the label address. You can search popsike by price for the expensive pressings of this and see that it does exist without the little R registered mark thing

    http://www.popsike.com/ART-BLAKEY-ORGY-IN-RHYTHM-ONE-BLUE-NOTE-LP-DEEP-GRVE/110553267493.html

    It looks like it has the deep groove ring around the label, which I think every OG and early repressing of 1500s should have.

    thanks!
    It has the little "R trademak thing". It seems it is an early 2nd pressing. Is it worth anything? (condition is nm)
  • buttonbutton 1,475 Posts
    Auctionwise, probably like $20-25 on a crappy day, $50-60 on a great day. If its a true M- it could maybe do more, but if I were listing it I wouldn't be expecting that or anything.
  • BallzDeepBallzDeep 612 Posts
    finelikewine said:
    Is it worth anything? (condition is nm)

    More than Ramsey Lewis Goin' Latin, that's for sure.
  • strataspherestratasphere Blastin' the Nasty 1,035 Posts
    Correct me if I get anything wrong here: The two main collectable Blue Note series are the 1500s and the 4000s. 1500's came earlier (late-50s) and OGs will always have an address. If you have an OG feeling 1500 with a NY USA label it is an early-60s repress. The tricky part on addresses is whether its the Lexington address or the 47w address. The earliest 1500s have the lexington address. later 1500s only have the 47w address. Very early represses of 1500 lexington LPs will have the 47w address.


    True about the Lexington Ave. labels. I've also found Blue Notes with deep groove Lexingtons on one side and 47w deep groove labels on the other.
  • buttonbutton 1,475 Posts
    Oh yeah, that reminds me how I had a Night in Tunisia with the NY USA on one side, and the 47w address on the other.
  • ageage 1,131 Posts
    Also if I remember correctly, when they were bought out, they were given dead stock of all the jackets/labels with the Lexington and 47 address attached to it. Some glossed, some not. Also the ones that were hand written rvg, without the ear, are liberty/ua issues.
  • DuderonomyDuderonomy Haut de la Garenne 7,789 Posts
    Were there second runs of Blue Note 45s? I rarely come across them, and the couple I have I assumed were first pressings.
  • holmesholmes 3,532 Posts
    Duderonomy said:
    Were there second runs of Blue Note 45s? I rarely come across them, and the couple I have I assumed were first pressings.
    yes, I have had some stuff on 3 labels, the first solid blue label, the second blue & white label & then a later Liberty/UA blue & white label.
  • holmesholmes 3,532 Posts
    age said:
    Also if I remember correctly, when they were bought out, they were given dead stock of all the jackets/labels with the Lexington and 47 address attached to it. Some glossed, some not. Also the ones that were hand written rvg, without the ear, are liberty/ua issues.
    This wasn't just from after the buy out, they would indiscriminately use up old label & cover stock as they went through address changes earlier on as well. But you are correct, there are earlier covers around which hold later Liberty presses & came like this initially. The same is true for some Chess/Cadet stuff post sale.
    Also, Deep Grooves can only be used as a guide to originality, especially once you get about 50 releases deep into the 4000 series c.1960.
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