TIME SIGNATURES

Skip DrinkwaterSkip Drinkwater 1,694 Posts
edited October 2005 in Strut Central
what do the bottom & top numbers represent exactly? does anyone know of an online site that explains various time signatures with audio clips to demonstrate them? many thanks.

  Comments


  • TabaskoTabasko 1,357 Posts
    did you try google?

    The number on top is the number of notes per measure, and the bottom number is what kind of note.[/b]

    3/4 is 3 quarter notes per measure.
    5/2 is 5 half notes per measure.
    6/8 is 6 eighth notes per measure.[/b]


  • montymonty 420 Posts
    yes and the first seven letters of the alphabet is

  • yes and the first seven letters of the alphabet is


  • did you try google?

    The number on top is the number of notes per measure, and the bottom number is what kind of note.[/b]

    3/4 is 3 quarter notes per measure.
    5/2 is 5 half notes per measure.
    6/8 is 6 eighth notes per measure.[/b]


    It's a little more detailed than that. The top number denotes number of BEATS per measure, the bottom number denotes WHICH NOTE GETS THE BEAT.

    So 3/4 is 3 beats per measure, with 1/4 notes getting a 1 count. That means a 1/2 note would get 2 counts, a full note would get 4 counts, a 1/8 note gets half a count, etc. etc.

    Think of it like this: MIDI is music theory for synths. The way MIDI tells the synth to play what note, for how long, and with what kind of attributes, is the same way that written music tells a musician or singer the same thing.

    "Oh, I play a C note for 1.5 beats a la glissando, then crescendo on a B flat for another 1.5 beats with a vibratto."

    Learning music theory - even basic stuff like time signatures - can really help your sequencing and programming.

  • mcdeemcdee 871 Posts
    what is the difference between a key and a scale?

  • mcdeemcdee 871 Posts
    damn i realised i just broke my 666 post count! i should have celebrated that one. oh well.. i'll just do it at the 1000th post like everyone else then.

  • what is the difference between a key and a scale?

    A scale is a progression of notes played in sequence. Musicians and singers usually warm up doing scales - Do Re Me Fa So La Ti Do is a scale.

    A key is kinda like what is your base note for the entire song you are playing/singing. So a song can be in a key of say B flat, and B flat is your "starting point" for lack of better words. So depending on what key a song is in, you either have to change your hand placement on the keys or strings, or re-tune your instrument to be able to reach all of the notes necessary in the song.

  • montymonty 420 Posts
    what is the difference between a key and a scale?

    A scale is a progression of notes played in sequence. Musicians and singers usually warm up doing scales - Do Re Me Fa So La Ti Do is a scale.

    A key is kinda like what is your base note for the entire song you are playing/singing. So a song can be in a key of say B flat, and B flat is your "starting point" for lack of better words. So depending on what key a song is in, you either have to change your hand placement on the keys or strings, or re-tune your instrument to be able to reach all of the notes necessary in the song.
    it's a lot more detailed than that.

  • mcdeemcdee 871 Posts
    what is the difference between a key and a scale?

    A scale is a progression of notes played in sequence. Musicians and singers usually warm up doing scales - Do Re Me Fa So La Ti Do is a scale.

    A key is kinda like what is your base note for the entire song you are playing/singing. So a song can be in a key of say B flat, and B flat is your "starting point" for lack of better words. So depending on what key a song is in, you either have to change your hand placement on the keys or strings, or re-tune your instrument to be able to reach all of the notes necessary in the song.
    it's a lot more detailed than that.

    thats what i thought, please break it down for us!

  • montymonty 420 Posts
    thats what i thought, please break it down for us!

    i'm still learning.

  • Mr_Lee_PHDMr_Lee_PHD 2,042 Posts
    I know, its a lot more complicated than this, but just for those who don't know.

    Most music is 4/4. Thats the norm - your basic four on the floor stuff, a good, easy to understand beat.

    Queen - Another One Bites The Dust (why I went for that as an example I've no idea) - 4/4

    Mission impossible was 5/4.

    I cant think of a 3/4, but it basically goes 'boom tap tap - boom tap tap....'


    Sometimes people like to combine time signtatures and do one type in the verse and another in the chorus, those tracks are real listeners, not your average toe tappers...

  • so let me get this straight - the botton count can only be in increments of 2, right? like, there can't be a 3/3[/b] for example?

  • montymonty 420 Posts
    I know, its a lot more complicated than this, but just for those who don't know.

    Most music is 4/4. Thats the norm - your basic four on the floor stuff, a good, easy to understand beat.

    Queen - Another One Bites The Dust (why I went for that as an example I've no idea) - 4/4

    Mission impossible was 5/4.

    I cant think of a 3/4, but it basically goes 'boom tap tap - boom tap tap....'


    Sometimes people like to combine time signtatures and do one type in the verse and another in the chorus, those tracks are real listeners, not your average toe tappers...
    was referring to the difference between a key and a scale.

    a good place to start: http://www.georgerussell.com/lc.html (the book is only $125)

  • montymonty 420 Posts
    so let me get this straight - the botton count can only be in increments of 2, right? like, there can't be a 3/3[/b] for example?
    the top number refers to the number of beats in the bar.

    the bottom number refers to the note (or rest) per beat - whole, half, quarter, eight, sixteenth, thirtysecond, sixtyfourth, etc... so, no, there is no "3" (no "third" note/rest... that would be a dotted half note/rest)

    still confused??? i am.

  • so let me get this straight - the botton count can only be in increments of 2, right? like, there can't be a 3/3[/b] for example?
    the top number refers to the number of beats in the bar.


    the bottom number refers to the note (or rest) per beat - whole, half, quarter, eight, sixteenth, thirtysecond, sixtyfourth, etc... so, no, there is no "3" (no "third" note/rest... that would be a dotted half note/rest)

    still confused??? i am.
    haha sorta. it makes sense in numbers, but i'm having trouble trying to make sense out of it in a musical context.

    monty, random curious question - had you ever met john coltrane?

  • what is the difference between a key and a scale?

    A scale is a progression of notes played in sequence. Musicians and singers usually warm up doing scales - Do Re Me Fa So La Ti Do is a scale.

    A key is kinda like what is your base note for the entire song you are playing/singing. So a song can be in a key of say B flat, and B flat is your "starting point" for lack of better words[/b]. So depending on what key a song is in, you either have to change your hand placement on the keys or strings, or re-tune your instrument to be able to reach all of the notes necessary in the song.
    it's a lot more detailed than that.

  • montymonty 420 Posts
    monty, random curious question - had you ever met john coltrane?
    YES - West Side NYC, driving his station wagon with McCoy, Elvin, and the bass player (don't remember which one it was), on their way to a gig in Philly.

    i hung with Elvin several times. my favorite Elvin story is; i was giving him a ride home from a gig at about 4 or 5 in the morning, and i stopped at a red light. he cussed me out for not running it, and got out of the car and walked home!

  • monty, random curious question - had you ever met john coltrane?
    YES - West Side NYC, driving his station wagon with McCoy, Elvin, and the bass player (don't remember which one it was), on their way to a gig in Philly.


    i hung with Elvin several times. my favorite Elvin story is; i was giving him a ride home from a gig at about 4 or 5 in the morning, and i stopped at a red light. he cussed me out for not running it, and got out of the car and walked home!
    haha that's wild... thanks for sharing.

  • sconesscones 434 Posts
    so let me get this straight - the botton count can only be in increments of 2, right? like, there can't be a 3/3[/b] for example?

    the top number refers to the number of beats in the bar.



    the bottom number refers to the note (or rest) per beat - whole, half, quarter, eight, sixteenth, thirtysecond, sixtyfourth, etc... so, no, there is no "3" (no "third" note/rest... that would be a dotted half note/rest)



    still confused??? i am.



    thats exactly it, so dont be confused, no need, lol.. 3/4 is 3 crotchet beats per bar. 5/4 is 5 crotchet beats per bar.

  • montymonty 420 Posts
    crotch??et (krŏch'ĭt) pronunciation
    n.

    1. An odd, whimsical, or stubborn notion.
    2. Music. See quarter note.
    3. Obsolete. A small hook or hooklike structure.

  • Mr_Lee_PHDMr_Lee_PHD 2,042 Posts
    so let me get this straight - the botton count can only be in increments of 2, right? like, there can't be a 3/3[/b] for example?

    Yes you can have a 3/3. You can have an anything/anything, it would just be darn difficult to listen to if it was too complicated.

    Your 3/3 would go like this


    1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 3 (now back to the start (of the loop) again)
    1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 3

    To relate this to a 4/4 - another one bites the dust (why do I keep going for that??) goes......

    1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4 (now back to the start (of the loop) again)
    1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4

    So to simplify the whole x/x, you could put it like this:


    number of straight bass beats / how many repititions of that are in 1 loop


  • montymonty 420 Posts
    You can have an anything/anything
    oh! i thouht we were talking about musical notation.

  • montymonty 420 Posts
    btw, if one were to say notate "Another One Bites The Dust" for like high school band or something - it would most properly be done in what's called, "cut time" - 2/2.

  • Mr_Lee_PHDMr_Lee_PHD 2,042 Posts
    But if you're not in a highschool band, then its still 4/4 right?


  • holmesholmes 3,532 Posts
    so let me get this straight - the botton count can only be in increments of 2, right? like, there can't be a 3/3[/b] for example?

    Yes you can have a 3/3. You can have an anything/anything, it would just be darn difficult to listen to if it was too complicated.

    Your 3/3 would go like this


    1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 3 (now back to the start (of the loop) again)
    1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 3

    To relate this to a 4/4 - another one bites the dust (why do I keep going for that??) goes......

    1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4 (now back to the start (of the loop) again)
    1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4

    So to simplify the whole x/x, you could put it like this:


    number of straight bass beats / how many repititions of that are in 1 loop

    It would probably be easier to think of 3/3 in terms of 3/4 but with each beat equalling a dotted half note instead of a quarter note. With dotted stuff you are usually getting into compound time signatures though and 3/3 can be expanded to 18/8 which signifies 6 dotted quarter note beats. In any case you never see 3/3 or 18/8 so it isn't really an issue. But with the most common compound time signatures (6/8, 9/8, 12/8) it's just a matter of changing the duration of your beats so 6/8 becomes compound duple with 2 dotted quarter note beats per bar, whereas your "normal" duple is just 2/4 with 2 quarter note beats per bar. They are conducted pretty much the same but you just have to alter your divisions within each beat to multiples of 3 instead of 2 to accomodate the amount of eighth notes you can fit in each beat. Following these guidelines 9/8 will be compound triple & 12/8 will be compund quadruple, relating to 3/4 & 4/4 respectively. Anyways, the combinations to create different time signatures are practically limitless but there is a reason why you usually only see certain signatures 90% of the time & that is because they sound good to our ears, but then again, if you wanted to compose in 33/8 or something like that, there is nothing to stop you.

  • damn man. Monty is giving music lessons on soulstrut.
    Sixtoo music = phrygian mode in 3/4s to 12 bar cycles (so you can do rounds with the bass in one signature and drums in 4/4).
    I suck at theory and will never find a fool-proof method to improv on the bass.

  • holmesholmes 3,532 Posts
    Oh yeah, with the keys vs. scales thing. The key is pretty much the tonality of the piece of music, at it's most basic major or minor. It's the term used to describe the basic material of the piece of music, whether it is derived from major or minor scales and depends on certain relationships between notes from the scale(s) and also the harmonies used (ie.the chords built from those notes). Over time these relationships can change to our ears & that is why different keys/tonalities have been favored at different times in history & even today from one geographical location to another. Basically in western music (what we mostly listen to) the identification of key & these relationships is based around what is being used as the tonic chord (the chord built upon the first note of the scale). So every (for example)"Standard Major" (Ionian) key has the same relationship between the notes in the scale and thus the same quality (major/minor etc.) chords built from each note of the scale. The differing factor is what pitch is used as the "tonic" (starting note). Same thing applies for "Minor" keys & every other mode, they just have differing relationships between the notes. In effect you can have different "scales" or "Modes" that use the exact same notes as each other, they just start & finish at different places. eg. C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C is C major while A,B,C,D,E,F,G,A is A Natural Minor, this also means that both the keys C major & A Nat Minor go together nicely. A scale is pretty much how the notes within an octave (eg. C to C) are arranged in order, and that progression of notes is the actual scale and the way in which the ocatve is divided gives the mode. Again though, different regions & times in history have had different ways or favorite ways of dividing the octave & have even incorporated tones that are not strictly available using the current equal temperament system of the 12 tones available in "standard" western music.
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