So, what's the deal with record collectors??

RhythmGJ

Why are record collectors so a) cynical, b) territorial, and c) "weird," for lack of a better term?

Yes, this _includes me_, as a life-long record collector (but I really think of myself more as a "music collector" with broad musical interests, and I _love_ vinyl but also have no truck with CDs, cassettes, DAT tapes, VHS, DVD, or audio files of various formats). I also love audio gear, but don't consider myself any kind of real "audiophile."

I hang at a handful of different sites catering to slightly different perspectives that are related to different things I do (performing, recording/producing, DJing, live sound/audio production, home hi-fi, collecting, teaching, etc.). But the serious collector communities (whether they be vintage audio or record collector types) tend to be the most insular/cynical/elitist/coolier-than-thou. I am thinking of two other sites that are _not_ this one, nonetheless, can anyone share any insights into why people become soooooo... Whatever that is?

GJ

klezmer electro-thug beats

I figure anybody who gets hardcore into "collecting" damn near anything has most of those tendencies.

Dudes who try to complete SNES cartridge collections are probably just as weird, although the "arcane knowledge"/gatekeeping/elitism is a lot harder to maintain for collecting stuff that came out in the 90s - all the info is out there, nothing is ungoogleable.

I have had a couple experiences on the periphery of book collecting that tells me there's a real parallel there too. I think any field where there's a benefit to having obscure knowledge (being able to come up on something) is gonna have a lot of people NOT sharing it. Couple that with the general collector neurosis - and I do pretty much consider it a neurosis, one that I have to some degree - and you've got a strong normie repellant.

And SS was pretty cooler-than-though at times, in its busier days. I read this damn board/site since like '99 and didn't really post (on a forgotten username) till... I dunno, 06? And very rarely even then.

RhythmGJ

Yeah, I guess it's always been. It just seems to be getting worse, maybe? Or that's my old-dude perception? My rant was actually triggered more by an anti-SS screed on another-board-that-shall-remain-nameless than it was by the generally craptastic anti-newbie and anti-everyone else vibe on that same board.

Sorry for the rant. But you are right, those tendencies probably exist in all of us obsessive types, and it's good to hold up a mirror for self-reflection every once in awhile. End Rant, I suppose...

GJ

klezmer electro-thug beats

If it's gotten worse it could be a reaction to the inevitable decline of the value of old-school "talking with other crusties" type of knowledge that used to be one of the only ways to become an expert in something. While not everything is online, you can go a long way without breaking into an insular clan like you used to have to. So, you assume everybody you don't know who's into what you're into is probably some damn youngbloods who read a couple listicles of the top psych 45s or whatever and doesn't deserve to have knowledge shared.

Obviously that's not everybody because of the sheer volume of and enthusiasm around SS over the years, and elsewhere too. But any community (on the web or not) requires a bit of active effort to keep it welcoming, it doesn't naturally maintain that way.

RhythmGJ

Can't argue with a thing you posted!

GJ

Duderonomy

klezmer electro-thug beats said:

While not everything is online, you can go a long way without breaking into an insular clan like you used to have to. So, you assume everybody you don't know who's into what you're into is probably some damn youngbloods who read a couple listicles of the top psych 45s or whatever and doesn't deserve to have knowledge shared.

I remember WBITD, either here or the Crates mailing list, a heated argument started up about Timmy Diggalots with wants lists comprising of nothing but rare funk 45s (eg the entire Brainfreeze tracklist) who hadn’t yet had a grounding in Teh Cannon; JB discography, Parliament, Meters, Olympic Runners etc.

Whoever it was who stood accused countered that there were no “rules” to digging and collecting, and they didn’t need to take that shit from a snobbish crusty.

I’ve never been a heavyweight collector, but felt the burn with DJing; spend 20 years collecting records and mastering beat matching and scratching, only for computers to come along and enable a kid to download 1000 tracks in half an hour and hit the auto-synch button. Suddenly everyone has a digital music collection that dwarfs anything I could amass physically, and you’re losing work to the iPod shuffle option.

And NOW I’ve left my records in storage to travel, reluctantly gone digital, and vinyl is hipster again after years in the wilderness. Ain’t life a bitch.

RhythmGJ

Yeah, I get it. I'm a musician first, although I've DJ'd. I saw the DJ's come in and take a lot of the gigs back in the 80's/90's, only to be dealing with the same stuff from digital/satellite radio/streaming/under-cutting digi-wanna-newbies now. It's ironic yet sad. And yes, frustrating.

But on the collector end, I don't know; just as fans, I sort of (admittedly romantically?) expect more of a brother/sisterhood, a "fellowship of the disc" kind of thing that seems to be a thing of the past if it ever existed. It would just be nice if people didn't get filled with cynicism and skepticism in an area with so much potential to bring people together such as this. But people are funny, and there's no accounting for them, I guess...

GJ

Jimster

I think a lot of the secrecy is down to how much these mythical raers are worth in terms of hard dollars.  If someone gets a name or title and unearths another copy, there goes half the collectability.  Hence the Northern Soul DJs masking the labels on the turntables etc.

I collect only what I would actually listen to, or be able to cop some lines to play on my bass, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but I still have a few grails that I need that the internet cannot apparently help with. Some mental snippets from radio shows in the 80s, some unshazamable saudade chord vehicles that have been used as background music to dead YouTube links... 

Just last week I heard an incredible Brazilian version of Love for Sale in a restaurant... I asked the staff what it was, they pay a subscription to stream the music from Sweden (!) And the amp is just a black box, no info, Shazam was a straight bust.

Ah the internet is a good servant but a cruel master 

:Whycry:

ppadilha

Jimster said:

Just last week I heard an incredible Brazilian version of Love for Sale in a restaurant... I asked the staff what it was, they pay a subscription to stream the music from Sweden (!) And the amp is just a black box, no info, Shazam was a straight bust.

was it the version on this record?

Jimster

Will check that later, obrigado - out at a Northern Soul bash, can't hear the phone!

Jimster

Nah, sadly not. The one I heard had fretless bass and sounded like it was recorded more recently than that.

EIGHTY

klezmer electro-thug beats said:

 But any community (on the web or not) requires a bit of active effort to keep it welcoming, it doesn't naturally maintain that way.

I am collecting sports stuff right now and let me tell you about a community that is beyond not welcoming. If you are not buying or trading then they don't want to talk about the hobby with you. I feel that kind of attitude can apply to any collecting community. But there are alot of elite types in the vinyl community. 

Dawhud

I was in line for RSD and txt my friend saying, "I can easily say I'm the best looking dude amongst all these mouth breathers."

Mondeyano

The sport aspect of digging wore off a while ago for me but I still see those territorial, weird dudes every once in a while which makes me feel better about taking it more easy around records. So much wasted energy. The whole thing of trying to make it to the crates first, not allowing people to access the next crate.. shit is mildly frustrating. Think it has to be some mix of greed, immaturity and lack of interpersonal skills. Then again, there are so many good people in the game too and best to focus on that.

Givemesoul

I don't think of collecting as anything but collecting music that I love,it's a hobby and it's fun.

Reynaldo82

Scarcity creates value

RhythmGJ

Isolation creates pathology.

GJ

Reynaldo82

Like records, the more record collectors there are, the less valuable/special/rare each one becomes.

The logic you hate.

RhythmGJ

Not me. Just asking a question.

So, according to the "logic I hate," each individual record collector is somehow "less valuable" because there are more of them? Please explain these logic-I-hate dynamics in more depth, and help me understand how that has an impact on the attitudes described in my initial post...

GJ