Do you agree with K-Def?
waximilien
352 Posts
I'm sure many people have already checked this excellent interview J-Zone did with K-Def. I searched to see if it had been posted already, but didn't see anything. I wanted to reference something K-Def said in this and see what Strutters thought about it.
Around the 53 minute mark, after they've started talking about his use of software etc. and his shift in working methods and approach to music, K-Def says:
Put in context, I understand why he says that. He talks about not being able to measure up to the stuff on the radio if you're using that dirty style of production, but is that the goal? Seriously? Producers, I'm curious to know: is anyone on here looking at the radio as a barometer of what's dope right now?
Personally, I associate that clean, polished sound a lot of people start to make when they switch from hardware to software with those bullshit pseudo-jazz/funk records they used to make in the 90s where they got very proficient players to make super clean music that had absolutely zero soul whatsoever.
I sing from the Gabe Roth hymn sheet: SHITTY IS PRETTY!
From my perspective, hip-hop was created out of taking the best parts of all genres of music and reducing them to their most raw form. By doing that - on 2 turntables, or on pause tapes or 4-tracks or samplers - the process shaped the sound and became a part of that sound. Remove that element and you remove a chunk of the heart of the music. If the kick isn't thumping, by all means slip an 808 kick under it to thicken it up. Put a drum machine snare or even a clap underneath your organic snare, if you're having difficulty making it snap.
I dunno, maybe I'm way off the consensus on this one. What do other Strutters think?
Around the 53 minute mark, after they've started talking about his use of software etc. and his shift in working methods and approach to music, K-Def says:
"Yo, you gotta get the loop in there and put the pops in..."
I did that... and last time I checked, it wasn't a hot commodity.
Put in context, I understand why he says that. He talks about not being able to measure up to the stuff on the radio if you're using that dirty style of production, but is that the goal? Seriously? Producers, I'm curious to know: is anyone on here looking at the radio as a barometer of what's dope right now?
Personally, I associate that clean, polished sound a lot of people start to make when they switch from hardware to software with those bullshit pseudo-jazz/funk records they used to make in the 90s where they got very proficient players to make super clean music that had absolutely zero soul whatsoever.
I sing from the Gabe Roth hymn sheet: SHITTY IS PRETTY!
From my perspective, hip-hop was created out of taking the best parts of all genres of music and reducing them to their most raw form. By doing that - on 2 turntables, or on pause tapes or 4-tracks or samplers - the process shaped the sound and became a part of that sound. Remove that element and you remove a chunk of the heart of the music. If the kick isn't thumping, by all means slip an 808 kick under it to thicken it up. Put a drum machine snare or even a clap underneath your organic snare, if you're having difficulty making it snap.
I dunno, maybe I'm way off the consensus on this one. What do other Strutters think?
Comments
K-Def also sounds like he wants to get paid, not keep it "real".
Is that what it comes down to? You strive to get paid by ignoring what you previously stood for and instead doing what the next man is doing in order to chase the money?
Lots of artists do it. Maybe once you've tried all of your good ideas and seen them fail, you have a go at something commercial and quietly wipe the puke away from the corners of your mouth with 100 dollar bills. Of course the connoisseur consumer would like it if they then used this commercial profit to drive more of that underground shit*.
* cough, Shadow, cough, could use some of that touring money to put out some unlicensed loop-based beats and everything post Psyence Fiction will be forgiven.
That would sit a lot better with me. I can dig the idea of doing one for "them" and balancing that out by doing one for "us" as it were. Plenty of artists have done that over the years. Buck65 just dropped his Warner's album at the same time as a project he'd done entirely with Jorun. Makes sense to me.
I don't begrudge K-Def deciding to make a move to get more money, but is it working out for him? I'm not seeing him producing on radio hits. On the other hand, listen to how Alchemist producers and most of his beats are filthy. The 'Rare Chandeliers' release with Action Bronson has some of the most crackle filled, popping drum breaks I've heard in a long time. It's dope. Sounds just like it should and there's no question Alchemist is producing those big artists K-Def alludes to
Yes.
C.R.E.A.M.
The caveat being: but not me
Maybe it's naive to think, but I assume he was one of the more successful producers of the era, financially, and that his back catalogue of production credits continues to pay out
I think you are right and I think K-Def is just speaking on a timeless problem for folks that have some tenure under their belt aka are getting older..."is the new generation of the mainstream truly shitty, or am I just getting old and out of touch?"...
Pretty much all of recorded history has the older generation shitting on the previous. Socrates literally (edit: not literally...supposedly)thought that 'these damn books will be the ruination of society' because people won't have to truly learn...paraphrasing, obviously.
It's such an old argument and it will never truly be answered universally...all you can do is whatever makes you feel happiest.
PS- your temporal audio jawn fucking knocks. I gave it a thorough listen whilst super baked and star gazing in my back yard with my telescope the other night and it really 'tied the room together', man...good stuff.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Last I remember was a beat on Ghostface's Pretty Tony album. It was an interpolation of The Masquerade Is Over.
Excellently put.
That's an interesting perspective. You're saying it's more like changes in trends (I don't want to use that word as I feel it's pretty heavily loaded, but I can't think of another) dictated that K-Def went in that direction, because he was always a forward thinking guy who embraced the new technologies? I can see that angle. It's almost like the change in times forced his hand, you might say.
The thing is, I have absolutely zero problem with people using whatever they want to make whatever they feel. It has nothing to do with me what people create. What surprised me were his comments regarding having to keep up with what's on the radio, because I always perceived that most people with the kind of rep, approach and/or background that K-Def has don't use that as any kind of yardstick.
Also, I have no issue with VST instruments. Damn, seriously, there are INCREDIBLE VST instruments out there, particularly the stuff Native Instruments is putting out, but if you A/B that stuff to albums made with real instruments the difference is often what comes after the VSTi. If you record a chord played on a strat straight into your PC and then do the same chord with a VSTi, you'll be able to hit a sound that is a pretty damn good approximation of it. The thing is, how often do you record a strat straight in? You might put it through a pre-amp or take it through an amp itself and mic up the amp. You might record it in through a desk or through a string of effects pedals. Do you get what I mean? The VSTi is only generating the original tone, all the other elements you do it are what gives it the real character.
Massively appreciated! Also, the fact that you picked up on the Pynchon quotes on the other track was immensely gratifying. I figured it was a pretty obvious part to use, but unfortunately nowhere near enough people seem to have been exposed to the genius of that book/man.
Massively appreciated! Also, the fact that you picked up on the Pynchon quotes on the other track was immensely gratifying. I figured it was a pretty obvious part to use, but unfortunately nowhere near enough people seem to have been exposed to the genius of that book/man.
That book blew my friggin mind when I first read it. Have you read Inherent Vice yet? That was a wild one.
Anyways, regarding keeping up with the times, forced hand etc etc...I recently listened to an interview of Herbie Hancock (http://thedianerehmshow.org/audio/#/shows/2014-10-27/herbie_hancock_possibilities/@00:00) where he talks a bit about Rockit and how it was made. Before he'd ever considered making the track, he had the son of a friend (who apparently was into rap) make a tape of 'what kids are into these days' and the guy just put together a tape of a bunch of rap he enjoyed. Herbie liked the sound, especially the scratching and got to work.
Whats interesting is that he just asked a kid to make a tape of what kids are into...I guess you could assume that if Herbie didn't dig the sound he wouldn't have contributed but the idea of being interested in what the kids are into seems to speak to that idea of staying current.
Either way, that interview is pretty solid and I'm sorry that I don't know the specific part of the interview where he talks about Rockit and his creation of it.
You might dig this if you've not seen it?
The idea that one of the most important records in scratch history was made because of a tape Herbie Hancock got from a friend's son is absolutely classic! I've lost count of the number of DJs who cite seeing DST performing "Rockit" with Herbie Hancock as their first contact with scratching and the thing which planted the seed. You're right, though, I guess it does echo the idea of K-Def wanting to stay current. Thanks for the interview link. Shame it isn't available for download, that would be perfect to listen to on my commute
(not hatting at all)
And heres the thing that K-Def needs to wake up to, his music isn't pleasing the underground heads or folks who listen to the radio, he's just not relevant.
I know some of his old shit gets re-released and snapped up and that probably gives him an inflated view of his relevance in modern day music.
EDIT: K-Def really comes of ok in that interview, and is mainly speaking in retrospect,.