Rolling Stone's 50 Greatest Hip-Hop Songs Of All Time (rap threads on SS-r)
DocMcCoy
"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Full list here.
It isn't the actual content I have the biggest issue with; there's a lot of great music on there, although I think the inclusion of Mind Playing Tricks On Me in the top 10 is an obvious sop to Harvey. It's the fact that it gathers together three things I actively loathe - cosy rap nostalgia, lazy, list-based journalism and rock-crit values imposing themselves upon rap - in one handy package. On the other hand, there are probably a good few rap bloggers twisting themselves into a frothing rage because deadprez, Lupe Fiasco and Immortal Technique aren't on that list.
I mean, it's Rolling Stone, so whatever. But to give an example, just this week I read Christgau give exactly the same rating to Saigon's new album (at best, well-intentioned but boring - at worst, unpleasantly reactionary) as he did to Kendrick Lamar's (album of the year), so these kinds of value judgements are particularly bugging me at the moment. Plus, in 2012, I find I am still having the same old arguments (you know, those arguments) with people who really should know better.
Discuss. Or not.
It isn't the actual content I have the biggest issue with; there's a lot of great music on there, although I think the inclusion of Mind Playing Tricks On Me in the top 10 is an obvious sop to Harvey. It's the fact that it gathers together three things I actively loathe - cosy rap nostalgia, lazy, list-based journalism and rock-crit values imposing themselves upon rap - in one handy package. On the other hand, there are probably a good few rap bloggers twisting themselves into a frothing rage because deadprez, Lupe Fiasco and Immortal Technique aren't on that list.
I mean, it's Rolling Stone, so whatever. But to give an example, just this week I read Christgau give exactly the same rating to Saigon's new album (at best, well-intentioned but boring - at worst, unpleasantly reactionary) as he did to Kendrick Lamar's (album of the year), so these kinds of value judgements are particularly bugging me at the moment. Plus, in 2012, I find I am still having the same old arguments (you know, those arguments) with people who really should know better.
Discuss. Or not.
Comments
Yeah, sorry, I should have mentioned the blatant click-bait aspect of the formatting. Even Prefix, which was where I first saw it, only did a precis of the top 10. It just feels like part of a massive conspiracy to waste everyone's time.
I bloody hate that tracks.
Salt n Pepa hadn't put a foot wrong until that track.
Missy / Get your freak on is in there, I banned DJs from playing that at the nights I used to put on.
And isn't it funny that all these people seem to agree that the high-water mark of the genre happens to be the exact point where the rock press finally declared that, yes, it was possible for rap music to exist on the same plane of artistic worth as rock. Seriously, man. Fuck. That. Noise.
Like I said, the actual content doesn't bother me so much. As a list of 50 great rap songs rather than The 50 Greatest Of All Time, there's not a lot there that I'd argue with. On the other hand, the guiding principles behind it (or what they appear to be) are absolute fucking cocksnot.
Too many doubles on the list, the Beastie boys dont need two joints. As well as Run Dmc. and Flash.
other than that its not garbage.
^^^ THIS.
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/schmidtt/rolling_stones_500_worst_reviews_of_all_time__work_in_progress_
Now THAT I clicked through. Thanks for sharing.
But "golden-age" etc. came about because so much of it didn't, and still doesn't.
Interesting point about golden era nostalgia. I'm part of a music group on Farcebook that was set up by guys in my hometown who are all of a similar age and were introduced to hip hop by buying Def Jam releases in the mid 80s.
I've made a conscious effort to promote only 2012 releases which largely go uncommented on but the moment a Juice Crew cut goes up it's smiles all round.
Venerating old music at the expense of everything else (yes, I am aware of the irony) will eventually set you on the way to becoming that dude on YouTube comments who does nothing but complain about how music isn't as good as it used to be, while blaming Justin Bieber or One Direction for the death of Kurt Cobain or some equally stupid shit.
Nobody's saying we've all got to like the new shit, but what makes someone think that the people who do like it are interested in hearing somebody piss and moan about how much it fucking sucks? Besides, who'd seriously expect to change anyone's mind about music by force-feeding them something they've no interest in hearing? In any event, there's a world of difference between inventive throwback stuff like that Evitan album (which is great, btw) and tedious get-off-my-lawn rap like the new Saigon record.
I wouldn't usually do this, but I don't really feel like typing all this out again.
This looks like a canard; it implies that those who prefer classic, old-school hip-hop think it was ALL good, and ALL better than what's out now. I don't know any hip-hop fans who would say this. What they might say (and I would go with) is that the scene was a lot healthier* & fresher/newer/more groundbreaking, but weighing up eras is easier with the passage of time. Give current rap ten or twenty years to marinate, and Rolling Stone's top 50 list might be very different. One of the other points in the article about personality > 'skills' reflects the changing landscape, as does the attack on sampling (supposedly = authenticity vs 'artificial' keyboard beats). If you have to 'do-down' an established fertile period in order to bolster something else, you've got a problem.
Most of the points in the article I agree with though, it's a good read.
* James' Tuesday factoid in the Stunts, Blunts thread for example, and I'm sure there were other weeks in golden-era hip-hop that won't be topped in a long time.