360 deals (Major Label Rip Off Related)

LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
edited May 2009 in Strut Central
I might need a late pass, but I just heard about these 360 deals. Major labels are now making artists give them a cut of ALL earnings including concerts, tshirts, ringtones...

  Comments


  • Pistol_PetePistol_Pete 1,289 Posts
    I might need a late pass, but I just heard about these 360 deals.
    Major labels are now making artists give them a cut of ALL earnings including concerts, tshirts, ringtones...

    they are trying to make that happen. newer artists with inexperienced representation may make this mistake, but I don't see this as the new norm.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,903 Posts
    Isn't this kinda what Live Nation has been up to in a sense?

    They paid Jay Z something like $150 Million and I think I just read he's parting ways with Def Jam now.

  • I might need a late pass, but I just heard about these 360 deals.
    Major labels are now making artists give them a cut of ALL earnings including concerts, tshirts, ringtones...

    they are trying to make that happen. newer artists with inexperienced representation may make this mistake, but I don't see this as the new norm.

    This is not even remotely accurate. In some situations where a deal is ULTRA competitive you may be able to avoid certain "ancillary rights" elements, or at least get uncrossed income streams coming out of giving up the other rights, but 360 deals are 100% the new norm. On top of which, even super successful artists are being approached by their labels with offers to retroactively add 360 elements to their deals.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    I might need a late pass, but I just heard about these 360 deals.
    Major labels are now making artists give them a cut of ALL earnings including concerts, tshirts, ringtones...

    they are trying to make that happen. newer artists with inexperienced representation may make this mistake, but I don't see this as the new norm.

    This is not even remotely accurate. In some situations where a deal is ULTRA competitive you may be able to avoid certain "ancillary rights" elements, or at least get uncrossed income streams coming out of giving up the other rights, but 360 deals are 100% the new norm. On top of which, even super successful artists are being approached by their labels with offers to retroactively add 360 elements to their deals.

    Does anyone believe there are true positives for the artists?
    The argument, I gather, is that the label will be your manager and they will be a better manager than the manager you have now.

  • GrafwritahGrafwritah 4,184 Posts
    I might need a late pass, but I just heard about these 360 deals.
    Major labels are now making artists give them a cut of ALL earnings including concerts, tshirts, ringtones...

    they are trying to make that happen. newer artists with inexperienced representation may make this mistake, but I don't see this as the new norm.

    This is not even remotely accurate. In some situations where a deal is ULTRA competitive you may be able to avoid certain "ancillary rights" elements, or at least get uncrossed income streams coming out of giving up the other rights, but 360 deals are 100% the new norm. On top of which, even super successful artists are being approached by their labels with offers to retroactively add 360 elements to their deals.

    Does anyone believe there are true positives for the artists?
    The argument, I gather, is that the label will be your manager and they will be a better manager than the manager you have now.


  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    I might need a late pass, but I just heard about these 360 deals.
    Major labels are now making artists give them a cut of ALL earnings including concerts, tshirts, ringtones...

    they are trying to make that happen. newer artists with inexperienced representation may make this mistake, but I don't see this as the new norm.

    This is not even remotely accurate. In some situations where a deal is ULTRA competitive you may be able to avoid certain "ancillary rights" elements, or at least get uncrossed income streams coming out of giving up the other rights, but 360 deals are 100% the new norm. On top of which, even super successful artists are being approached by their labels with offers to retroactively add 360 elements to their deals.

    Does anyone believe there are true positives for the artists?
    The argument, I gather, is that the label will be your manager and they will be a better manager than the manager you have now.


    Yeah, what IS in it for the artist?

  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts
    I might need a late pass, but I just heard about these 360 deals.
    Major labels are now making artists give them a cut of ALL earnings including concerts, tshirts, ringtones...

    they are trying to make that happen. newer artists with inexperienced representation may make this mistake, but I don't see this as the new norm.

    This is not even remotely accurate. In some situations where a deal is ULTRA competitive you may be able to avoid certain "ancillary rights" elements, or at least get uncrossed income streams coming out of giving up the other rights, but 360 deals are 100% the new norm. On top of which, even super successful artists are being approached by their labels with offers to retroactively add 360 elements to their deals.

    Does anyone believe there are true positives for the artists?
    The argument, I gather, is that the label will be your manager and they will be a better manager than the manager you have now.


    Yeah, what IS in it for the artist?


    Lots of up front cash along with a boatload of otherwise useless "synergy".

    b/w

    Am I the only one who thinks the guy in that poster looks like the J*sh with a bad perm???

  • I might need a late pass, but I just heard about these 360 deals.
    Major labels are now making artists give them a cut of ALL earnings including concerts, tshirts, ringtones...

    they are trying to make that happen. newer artists with inexperienced representation may make this mistake, but I don't see this as the new norm.

    This is not even remotely accurate. In some situations where a deal is ULTRA competitive you may be able to avoid certain "ancillary rights" elements, or at least get uncrossed income streams coming out of giving up the other rights, but 360 deals are 100% the new norm. On top of which, even super successful artists are being approached by their labels with offers to retroactively add 360 elements to their deals.

    Does anyone believe there are true positives for the artists?
    The argument, I gather, is that the label will be your manager and they will be a better manager than the manager you have now.


    Yeah, what IS in it for the artist?

    Nothing. Seriously.

  • Pistol_PetePistol_Pete 1,289 Posts
    I might need a late pass, but I just heard about these 360 deals.
    Major labels are now making artists give them a cut of ALL earnings including concerts, tshirts, ringtones...

    they are trying to make that happen. newer artists with inexperienced representation may make this mistake, but I don't see this as the new norm.

    This is not even remotely accurate. In some situations where a deal is ULTRA competitive you may be able to avoid certain "ancillary rights" elements, or at least get uncrossed income streams coming out of giving up the other rights, but 360 deals are 100% the new norm. On top of which, even super successful artists are being approached by their labels with offers to retroactively add 360 elements to their deals.

    do you work for a label?
    i would never sign an artist to a 360 deal.

  • WoimsahWoimsah 1,734 Posts
    Every situation is different - however Pete does know his shit and for the most part is right (as far as todays standards go at the major labels). However, if the label actually does function as a well oiled machine - there are worse things. They're paying more money for you - and with that mentality, the powers that be within that particular label might be on their staff's case a much more about meeting every deadline and getting shit done to make the contract worth their while.
    I'm not decided as to how I feel about them just yet...but a label head did recently say something like "If a very talented and buzzed about pizza chef comes to me and asks me to invest X amount of dollars in his new pizza shop but tells me he's only going to give me a percentage of the pizza he's selling when he's making money on merchandise, renting out his space for events, etc. - well that's not a very sound investment."

    Obviously, it's a tough and far-fetched comparison, but one that does ring to true to a certain extent.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts

    I'm not decided as to how I feel about them just yet...but a label head did recently say something like "If a very talented and buzzed about pizza chef comes to me and asks me to invest X amount of dollars in his new pizza shop but tells me he's only going to give me a percentage of the pizza he's selling when he's making money on merchandise, renting out his space for events, etc. - well that's not a very sound investment."

    Obviously, it's a tough and far-fetched comparison, but one that does ring to true to a certain extent.

    I don't think the analogy the label head uses is accurate, because it is limited to the business of the pizza shop, when what he is really talking about with artists is ANYTHING the artist does they get a slice of, not just the sale of a recording. To my knowledge, if I were to invest in a friend's record store, it would be unlikely he would agree to my claiming a percentage of his DJ gigs.

  • I might need a late pass, but I just heard about these 360 deals.
    Major labels are now making artists give them a cut of ALL earnings including concerts, tshirts, ringtones...

    they are trying to make that happen. newer artists with inexperienced representation may make this mistake, but I don't see this as the new norm.

    This is not even remotely accurate. In some situations where a deal is ULTRA competitive you may be able to avoid certain "ancillary rights" elements, or at least get uncrossed income streams coming out of giving up the other rights, but 360 deals are 100% the new norm. On top of which, even super successful artists are being approached by their labels with offers to retroactively add 360 elements to their deals.

    do you work for a label?
    i would never sign an artist to a 360 deal.

    No. I work for a prominent entertainment law firm. I see dozens of deal memos every month from majors and even larger indies that are 90 to 99% 360/"Ancillary Rights" deals. There's not a single building left that isn't trying to make EVERY new artist signing a 360 signing. This is not open for debate, I am speaking based on the empirical evidence that I see every day.

  • Pistol_PetePistol_Pete 1,289 Posts
    I might need a late pass, but I just heard about these 360 deals.
    Major labels are now making artists give them a cut of ALL earnings including concerts, tshirts, ringtones...

    they are trying to make that happen. newer artists with inexperienced representation may make this mistake, but I don't see this as the new norm.

    This is not even remotely accurate. In some situations where a deal is ULTRA competitive you may be able to avoid certain "ancillary rights" elements, or at least get uncrossed income streams coming out of giving up the other rights, but 360 deals are 100% the new norm. On top of which, even super successful artists are being approached by their labels with offers to retroactively add 360 elements to their deals.

    do you work for a label?
    i would never sign an artist to a 360 deal.

    No. I work for a prominent entertainment law firm. I see dozens of deal memos every month from majors and even larger indies that are 90 to 99% 360/"Ancillary Rights" deals. There's not a single building left that isn't trying to make EVERY new artist signing a 360 signing. This is not open for debate, I am speaking based on the empirical evidence that I see every day.

    cool. i work for a management company that has major artists and none of them have 360 deals and none of them will.

    edit - I'm not saying that it's not happening. I totally believe you are seeing 360 deal memos. I just know of many artists and management firms that wouldn't agree to one.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,903 Posts
    I just know of many artists and management firms that wouldn't agree to one.

    What if they included stock options like Terry McBride has suggested.

    http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2008/03/06/...ptions%E2%80%9D



    Of course with the stuff that went down with Live Nation, I'm not sure how much that will come into play nowadayz.

  • I might need a late pass, but I just heard about these 360 deals.
    Major labels are now making artists give them a cut of ALL earnings including concerts, tshirts, ringtones...

    they are trying to make that happen. newer artists with inexperienced representation may make this mistake, but I don't see this as the new norm.

    This is not even remotely accurate. In some situations where a deal is ULTRA competitive you may be able to avoid certain "ancillary rights" elements, or at least get uncrossed income streams coming out of giving up the other rights, but 360 deals are 100% the new norm. On top of which, even super successful artists are being approached by their labels with offers to retroactively add 360 elements to their deals.

    do you work for a label?
    i would never sign an artist to a 360 deal.

    No. I work for a prominent entertainment law firm. I see dozens of deal memos every month from majors and even larger indies that are 90 to 99% 360/"Ancillary Rights" deals. There's not a single building left that isn't trying to make EVERY new artist signing a 360 signing. This is not open for debate, I am speaking based on the empirical evidence that I see every day.

    cool. i work for a management company that has major artists and none of them have 360 deals and none of them will.

    edit - I'm not saying that it's not happening. I totally believe you are seeing 360 deal memos. I just know of many artists and management firms that wouldn't agree to one.

    That's good for them. However, if you're coming in on the ground floor and still want (for whatever unfathomable reason) to be signed to a major, even with a pretty significant buzz, but short of an outright bidding war, not agreeing to one isn't an option. What I find most interesting is how many top artists (JayZ, Shakira, Madonna, Korn, etc.) have voluntarily entered into 360 deals, no matter how well monetized those agreements might be. It's dangerous to have all of your money coming from one source.

  • Pistol_PetePistol_Pete 1,289 Posts
    I might need a late pass, but I just heard about these 360 deals.
    Major labels are now making artists give them a cut of ALL earnings including concerts, tshirts, ringtones...

    they are trying to make that happen. newer artists with inexperienced representation may make this mistake, but I don't see this as the new norm.

    This is not even remotely accurate. In some situations where a deal is ULTRA competitive you may be able to avoid certain "ancillary rights" elements, or at least get uncrossed income streams coming out of giving up the other rights, but 360 deals are 100% the new norm. On top of which, even super successful artists are being approached by their labels with offers to retroactively add 360 elements to their deals.

    do you work for a label?
    i would never sign an artist to a 360 deal.

    No. I work for a prominent entertainment law firm. I see dozens of deal memos every month from majors and even larger indies that are 90 to 99% 360/"Ancillary Rights" deals. There's not a single building left that isn't trying to make EVERY new artist signing a 360 signing. This is not open for debate, I am speaking based on the empirical evidence that I see every day.

    cool. i work for a management company that has major artists and none of them have 360 deals and none of them will.

    edit - I'm not saying that it's not happening. I totally believe you are seeing 360 deal memos. I just know of many artists and management firms that wouldn't agree to one.

    That's good for them. However, if you're coming in on the ground floor and still want (for whatever unfathomable reason) to be signed to a major, even with a pretty significant buzz, but short of an outright bidding war, not agreeing to one isn't an option. What I find most interesting is how many top artists (JayZ, Shakira, Madonna, Korn, etc.) have voluntarily entered into 360 deals, no matter how well monetized those agreements might be. It's dangerous to have all of your money coming from one source.
    i coudn't agree more about the concerns, especially when that one company can't do all of those things nearly as well as an experienced small management team and 2 booking agents.

  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    This is both kind of expected and kind of fucked up considering what I've been reading in recent years as far as major label artists getting more money from shows/merchandising than record/MP3/ringtone sales...

    I'm still clueless on why artists would willingly enter into such a deal however.
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