Wifey Employment/HR issue... help plaese

Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
edited January 2009 in Strut Central
We've got a problem, and I figure the Strut is as good as anything available on the www.So my wife works for a small, high end shoe company. She's excited by the brand, is working with people she likes and respects, and took a pay cut from her big retail fashion gig to get with the company.Her employer just informed her today that, due to an accounting error, for the last six months they had been paying her $500 too much per month. Basically, they were supposed to split the health insurance yet her share had been paid (mistakenly) by the company this whole time.Here's the rub: in addition to swallowing the reduced pay going forward they are asking her to repay some $3,000+[/b] to the company. To make matters worse, this was taken up in the middle of a full office in the middle of the workday and later addressed in an email on which other employees were copied.To the money issue I cry "BULLSHIT". But what rights does she have? How is she supposed to come up with that money for them when it was THEIR accounting error? Not to mention, isn't insurance and pay scale business supposed to be private and confidential?HR/Legal heads, plaese to weigh in...

  Comments


  • djannadjanna 1,543 Posts
    Eh, this sucks big time, but I think they can make her pay it, at least I know my school district did this to a classroom aide and now they take money out of his paycheck every month to pay themselves back.

    I doubt they can demand she front all that money at once AND maybe a threatening legal letter of some sort will resolve the matter all together, holler at your boy Fauxy.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    Simple but relevant advice: have her start documenting EVERYTHING that's transpired, including emails sent/received. It may also not be a bad idea for her to conduct any meaningful communication with her employers/supervisors from this point onward via something that leaves a "paper" (or digital) record behind.

    My good friend is an HR manager. Let me ask what she thinks.

  • had been paying her $500 too much per month. Basically, they were supposed to split the health insurance yet her share had been paid (mistakenly) by the company this whole time.


    $1000 per month for health insurance? Is it just me or is that incredibly high?

  • her health insurance is $1000/month???

  • Both of us are on the plan but yeah, it's like $975 a month...

  • AlmondAlmond 1,427 Posts
    Might be better off on independent health insurance, unless either of you has a medical issue.

  • chasechase 767 Posts
    they can most definitely make her pay it back, but they cannot take it out of her check with out her permission.

    But really, she didn't know how much was supposed to get taken out of her check? If you found out they didn't pay there part would you expect them to pay?

    As far as the unprofessional way handled, she can go to HR (assuming there is one) but nothing will happen, maybe she will get an apology.

  • jleejlee 1,539 Posts
    cosign what Odub said...at least for the next few weeks until things get sorted out. Lest they try to flip this and use it for an act of insubordination or reason to blemish her record there.

    in my experience with these issues, she is to be expected to return the money, but if she has a good rapport with her managers she may be able to make arrangements that work out very much in her favor (given the circumstances). So instead of having to fork over 3K in the span of one month, perhaps she work it out getting deducted from her paycheck over the next 6 months or so.

    In reality, this cost should be a drop in the bucket for the company, its just that accounting/payroll just figured this out.

    As for putting her on blast in front of her fellow employees, definitely worth her to note that to a respected/trusted manager.

  • mrmatthewmrmatthew 1,575 Posts
    "Her employer just informed her today " this is an important part of it I think.
    I assume that whe you say "her employer", you mean her "HR Dept". If the an HR Dept Rep was the one that did this all in front of the entire office...then that seems to be a pretty unprofessional HR Dept.

  • There is no HR department... it's a start-up company of just a small handful of people. She was hired by the owners of the company directly.

    The error was made by the woman she reports into so there's not really a trusted/confidential person she can go to.

    I think we both understand that if they say they want the money back, she has to pay it back (or step off)... as far as the cost to the company my feeling is that this might not be such a drop in the bucket... everyone's collecting on debts these days.

  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    There is no HR department... it's a start-up company of just a small handful of people.

    That blows. Work out a payment plan and write a letter saying how she doesn't appreciate being embarrassed in front of all her co-workers? I dunno..

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    JP: this is from my friend who helps run HR at a Fortune 500 company:

    Firstly, I will say that your friend has the right not to agree to pay for something she didn't screw up on. The counter argument about coming up with the 3k is that she shouldn't have spent money that wasn't hers. (Just FYI) On the flip side of that, the calculations of the 3k are suspect since medical deductions are often pre-tax withholding and if she were paying post-tax withholdings, she would be overpaying. That on top of the fact that they can not automatically deduct the different without her agreeing to it.

    Secondly, there are patients rights when it comes to medical insurance and I would double check the HIPPA regulations to make sure that that email was not in violation of her rights for which there are severe penalities and maybe that would be enough. Certainly her employee confidentiality was violated depending on who was on that email. (ie, HR,Finance, or random people).

    I would say that since the error was that of her company, if she makes a big enough stink about it, someone will (should) be able to forgive it and just correct it going forward. That being said, if this doesn't go through, she should make sure those calculations are correct BEFORE she files her taxes. Otherwise, she will end up doing it twice.

  • MurdockMurdock 542 Posts
    My whole fam (besides me) are H.R. Gangsta's. I'll ask them on the golf course next week and see what they say. The whole H.R. game is about keeping cool. I feel like they owe your wifey a little favor in the future. Which is always good. A get out of jail card might be worth all the trouble. Either way you have bennies. Get everyone's teeth fixed.

  • i guess the real question is: does she value the job and that company enough to repay in full or part?

    my understanding is that if she was overpaid then she is not entitled to keep that money. as soon as she realized there was a mistake (or it was brought to her attention) she came under a duty to repay (this is related to the law on unjust enrichment and constructive trusts) whether or not that money had been spent or transformed into substitute assets (like raers).

    from your description it sounds like an "honest muddle" but the company certainly handled it in an unprofessional and perhaps even demeaning manner.

    since it is such a small company, there is no ombudsman, hr dept., or perhaps even company procedures to speak of, handling this internally could be difficult if not impossible.

    i guess if she wants to keep the job her best bet is to work out a settlement (perhaps pay back 50%)over an extended period of time so that it doesn't mess your household finances up.

    otherwise, i guess she quits (which means no unemployment insurance)and she tells them that she'll see them in small claims court if they decide to persist. the problem is, i am pretty sure the law is not on your side here so she could end up losing her job and having to pay back the entire amount plus court costs.

    unfortunately, i think you guys are going to have to bite the bullet.

  • I appreciate all the input guys... that's more or less the conclusion we came to. She could a) step, b) eat it, or c) negotiate some slightly more friendly agreement. Overall her morale took a hit which is no good, and I expect she'll be seeking greener pastures at a later point when a) they exist and b) it doesn't look so suspicious.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    I appreciate all the input guys... that's more or less the conclusion we came to. She could a) step, b) eat it, or c) negotiate some slightly more friendly agreement. Overall her morale took a hit which is no good, and I expect she'll be seeking greener pastures at a later point when a) they exist and b) it doesn't look so suspicious.

    The bad side of small/ mid-size companies, often they don't feel that confidentiality is just as crucial as it is in a big firm, when in fact it may be even more critical. More is riding on it.

    It sucks, but I agree with most folks here that the $$$ issue is a done deal, the best she could do is probably negotiate the amount some and the time to pay it back should also be somewhat flexible. My biggest issue is the way they handled it, which obviously really put her on the spot through no fault of her own. In my own experience working in smaller companies, my guess was that this was indeed intentional, to put her back up against the wall and not give her much breathing room when it came to negotiating THEIR screw-up. But then, I worked for total scumbags, so maybe I am being cynical.

    Her best bet is to put on a fake smile and, like Odub's HR friend said, get to the bottom of the ACTUAL amount and see what they can do.

  • mrmatthewmrmatthew 1,575 Posts
    "My whole fam (besides me) are H.R. Gangsta's. I'll ask them on the golf course next week"


  • jinx74jinx74 2,287 Posts
    there wouldnt really be a HIPPA violation unless some sort of medical information was distributed via email or in the presence of others.

    ...and actually, $1000, while high, could or could not be bad. it all depends on what their copays are when they see a physican, if there is an out of pocket maximum for the year, price of meds, etc.

    anyway.. that sucks jon. tell em i said hi!
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