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I don't know much about the US political system

DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,916 Posts
edited October 2008 in Strut Central
But I'd like someone who does know about it to explain a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/15/uselections2008-democrats" target="_blank"1this to me. I'm curious to know how getting more people to participate in the democratic process can be considered "stealing" an election, as well as how any speculation about "voter fraud" can be taken seriously before any vote has been cast.b,121b,121Or are these people just insane?

  Comments

  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    just another red herring tacticb,121b,121from a practical standpoint, registering phony names wouldn't affect any election unless someone actually votes under that name - which would be pretty hard, esp in my state where they require ID with your current address on it
  • CousinLarryCousinLarry 4,618 Posts
    This shit is silly because when the information is turned in to actually register the voter it is checked by the state. So these false registrants get thrown out. It isn't like some dude with mouse ears will show up to vote and be allowed to cast a ballot.
  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
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    b,121just another red herring tactic
    b,121
    b,121from a practical standpoint, registering phony names wouldn't affect any election unless someone actually votes under that name - which would be pretty hard, esp in my state where they require ID with your current address on it
    b,121
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    font class="post"1b,121b,121Thank you.b,121b,121The problem with paying people to 'collect information' is that you run the risk of people capturing/creating false info. This is nothing new. GOP positioning itself to have cause to serve injunctions should there be close precincts that it comes down to.
  • erewhonerewhon 1,123 Posts
    [i]"A number of press reports have surfaced recently about a large number of invalid registrations submitted by Acorn"b,121b,121"In Nevada, canvassers submitted the names of members of the Dallas Cowboys football team and Mickey Mouse as new voters. In Indiana, they put in the name of a local restaurant - Jimmy John. In Ohio, one man registered 73 times. In Missouri, 10 registrations were submitted in the name of a dead woman."/i1b,121b,121The issue isn't that more people are registering to vote, it's that people who don't exist are reportedly registering to vote...several times. It certainly doesn't invalidate an election that hasn't happened yet, but it does set off some alarms. The GOP loves this, because they were already stirring people up about ACORN causing the financial crisis and now they have reports of ACORN screwing with the elections to further stigmatize them and the Democrats.
  • CousinLarryCousinLarry 4,618 Posts
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    h,121
    b,121
    b,121
    b,121The issue isn't that more people are registering to vote, it's that people who don't exist are reportedly registering to vote...several times. It certainly doesn't invalidate an election that hasn't happened yet, but it does set off some alarms. The GOP loves this, because they were already stirring people up about ACORN causing the financial crisis and now they have reports of ACORN screwing with the elections to further stigmatize them and the Democrats.
    b,121
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    font class="post"1b,121b,121There is a picture out of Mccain at an ACORN immigration rally a few years ago.
  • luckluck 4,077 Posts
    It's an attempt at self-fulfilled prophesy. The GOP knows that they are gonming to lose, and folks are desperate.b,121b,121John McCain was a the keynote speaker at an ACORN-co-initiated rally in 2006. Shit plays both ways.b,121b,121object width="425" height="344"1param name="movie" value=""1/param1param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"1/param1embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"1/embed1/object1b,121b,121...and anyone blaming ACORN for the mortgage crisis is progressing down a flatly racist street.b,121b,121Bullshit like this is why Barack Obama has his largest ever lead in the polls; America can see right through the subterfuge.
  • luckluck 4,077 Posts
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    h,121
    b,121This shit is silly because when the information is turned in to actually register the voter it is checked by the state. So these false registrants get thrown out. It isn't like some dude with mouse ears will show up to vote and be allowed to cast a ballot.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121Right. More likely, one or two individuals were trying to make quota and take a day off. It is certainly not right, but it cannot be seen as some insidious, concerted effort.
  • luckluck 4,077 Posts
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    b,121[i]"A number of press reports have surfaced recently about a large number of invalid registrations submitted by Acorn"
    b,121
    b,121"In Nevada, canvassers submitted the names of members of the Dallas Cowboys football team and Mickey Mouse as new voters. In Indiana, they put in the name of a local restaurant - Jimmy John. In Ohio, one man registered 73 times. In Missouri, 10 registrations were submitted in the name of a dead woman."
    /i1
    b,121
    b,121The issue isn't that more people are registering to vote, it's that people who don't exist are reportedly registering to vote...several times. It certainly doesn't invalidate an election that hasn't happened yet, but it does set off some alarms. The GOP loves this, because they were already stirring people up about ACORN causing the financial crisis and now they have reports of ACORN screwing with the elections to further stigmatize them and the Democrats.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121What's been a consistently ridiculous theme in this election is the number of GOP members desperately trying Democrat tactics - the over-the-top appeals to women, Jewish voters, and now their "concern trolling" regarding voter fraud. Just a sign that the Republican empire is toppling.
  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
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    b,121This shit is silly because when the information is turned in to actually register the voter it is checked by the state. So these false registrants get thrown out. It isn't like some dude with mouse ears will show up to vote and be allowed to cast a ballot.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1
    b,121
    b,121Right. More likely, one or two individuals were trying to make quota and take a day off. It is certainly not right, but it cannot be seen as some insidious, concerted effort.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121You could easily make the case that it was probably more systematic than one or two people, however, it does not change the fact that it would be exceedingly difficult to committ voter fraud off these fraudulent registrations. This is one more item that GOP types can tick off their sheet that basically demonizes organizations whose purpose is to elevate people out of poverty.
  • UnherdUnherd 1,880 Posts
    This whole thing is so incredible to me, because they were able to find a "scandal" that fits right into their us vs them strategy; (Potential) voter fraud by an association of community organiz[/b]ations, who registers b1low income people[/b] to vote (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). Why don't they just come out and say those inner city blacks are trying to steal the election for one of their own.b,121b,121The funniest thing to me is that I actually went down to Florida to register voters in the run up to the 2004 election, and working for ACORN, was told pretty explicitly that when registering voters for them, I wasn't allowed to express a preference for Kerry. I was a volunteer, but if I was getting paid, I understand completely how someone less scrupulous then myself would think about taking the day off and submitting some fake forms. The idea that that reflects on the organization in general is a stretch. The idea that it has anything whatsoever to do with Obama is ludicrous. b,121b,121The republicans are desperate for any way to explain what they've accepted is their impending, inevitable loss. Anyone catch Limbaugh yesterday asking Palin what her plans are after the election??? ACORN is a real weak sauce smokescreen, and will end up being just one tile in the mosaic of bs they are creating to try and delegitimize an Obama presidency....
  • DB_CooperDB_Cooper Manhatin' 7,823 Posts
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    b,121This shit is silly because when the information is turned in to actually register the voter it is checked by the state. So these false registrants get thrown out. It isn't like some dude with mouse ears will show up to vote and be allowed to cast a ballot.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1
    b,121
    b,121Right. More likely, one or two individuals were trying to make quota and take a day off. It is certainly not right, but it cannot be seen as some insidious, concerted effort.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1
    b,121
    b,121You could easily make the case that it was probably more systematic than one or two people, however, it does not change the fact that it would be exceedingly difficult to committ voter fraud off these fraudulent registrations. This is one more item that GOP types can tick off their sheet that basically demonizes organizations whose purpose is to elevate people out of poverty.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121It certainly is more systemic, in that the people hired to collect these voters registrations had to make a certain quota to be paid for their day's work. As a result, a certain amount of false registration is inevitable, because people want to get paid. But it's not part of some grand overarching conspiracy???just the result of individuals responding to their personal financial needs. And it will have no bearing on the actual votes cast.
  • OkemOkem 4,617 Posts
    Whoever 'runs' the Republican party is an evil genius. It just boggles my mind how insane 90% of what they come out with is, yet their loyal partisan eat it up and then regurgitate it with extra venom. Then the left are forced into a nonsense argument, that they can never win, so they are made to look like incongruous fools. All the while the real problems, and the causes of those problems get ignored. Because I've got this shiny thing over here, look, look, over here, if you don't look you're unamerican, LOOK.
  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
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    h,121
    b,121This shit is silly because when the information is turned in to actually register the voter it is checked by the state. So these false registrants get thrown out. It isn't like some dude with mouse ears will show up to vote and be allowed to cast a ballot.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1
    b,121
    b,121Right. More likely, one or two individuals were trying to make quota and take a day off. It is certainly not right, but it cannot be seen as some insidious, concerted effort.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1
    b,121
    b,121You could easily make the case that it was probably more systematic than one or two people, however, it does not change the fact that it would be exceedingly difficult to committ voter fraud off these fraudulent registrations. This is one more item that GOP types can tick off their sheet that basically demonizes organizations whose purpose is to elevate people out of poverty.
    b,121
    b,121
    h,121
    font class="post"1
    b,121
    b,121It certainly is more systemic, in that the people hired to collect these voters registrations had to make a certain quota to be paid for their day's work. As a result, a certain amount of false registration is inevitable, because people want to get paid. But it's not part of some grand overarching conspiracy???just the result of individuals responding to their personal financial needs. And it will have no bearing on the actual votes cast.
    b,121
    b,121
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    font class="post"1b,121b,121Exactly. What the right-wing talk radio/McCain campaign people are trying to do with this is EQUATE Obama with ACORN, as though Axelrod and Obama himself has had meetings with them about how they are going to steal the election. This is where they lose traction, because the public isn't really buying their wolf tickets, outside the hardcore GOP base.
  • pcmrpcmr 5,591 Posts
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    b,121What's been a consistently ridiculous theme in this election is the number of GOP members desperately trying Democrat tactics - the over-the-top appeals to women, Jewish voters, and now their "concern trolling" regarding voter fraud. Just a sign the the Republican empire is toppling.
    b,121
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    h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121after trying to smearb,121b,121im going to fight fo you americab,121b,121does this ring a bell anyone b,121b,121img src="http://blogs.bet.com/news/pamela/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/hillary_clinton.JPG"1 b,121b,121voter fraud *cough*FLORIDA*cough*b,121b,121the GOP is going to need dome serious reengineeringb,121b,121in another news here in canada the liberals are going to need an overhaul
  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,471 Posts
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    b,121This is where they lose traction, because the public isn't really buying their wolf tickets, outside the hardcore GOP base.
    b,121
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    font class="post"1b,121b,121And it should be pointed out that this is a fairly new development--the public was previously all too happy to buy the GOP's bullshit in elections past.
  • OkemOkem 4,617 Posts
    I caught the tail end of a news program the other day saying that Republicans were trying to use the fact that lots of low income families have lost their homes, due to the sub-prime collapse, as a way to make then illegible to vote.
  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts
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    b,121I caught the tail end of a news program the other day saying that Republicans were trying to use the fact that lots of low income families have lost their homes, due to the sub-prime collapse, as a way to make then illegible to vote.
    b,121
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    font class="post"1b,121b,121I beleive they were trying to do this in Michigan. The fact that that vote stealing, election mangling gang of liars would attempt to make this stuff an issue is a new low in shamelessness....
  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
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    b,121But I'd like someone who does know about it to explain
    to me. I'm curious to know how getting more people to participate in the democratic process can be considered "stealing" an election, as well as how any speculation about "voter fraud" can be taken seriously before any vote has been cast.
    b,121
    b,121Or are these people just insane?
    b,121
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    font class="post"1b,121b,121Our voting system is inherently flawed. If done in any other country no one would consider the election free and open.b,121b,1211) Each state and DC run their own election, so there are 51 separately administered elections. b,1212) With in a state counties may differ in how they administer elections.b,1213) Electronic computer, optical scan, mechanical voting machine, paper and pencil, Punch card,are all systems used in different locals. Optical scan is the most reliable, hole punch the least. So not all votes are equal. b,1214) Typically the Secretary of State for each state is in charge of elections. Typically this is an elected partisan position. b,1215) In 2000 the SoS for Florida was also the head of the FL GW Bush campaign, and her boss - Governor Jeb Bush - was one of Bush's brothers. b,1216) Rules regarding voter registration and voting are different in each state; deadlines, eligibility, and absentee voting, the hours polls are open...b,121b,121As you can see we do not have a functioning system of one person one vote. In some places it easier to register and vote than in others. In some places your vote is more likely to be counted than in others. b,121b,121____b,121b,121To the article you mention.b,121b,121Voter suppression has helped Republican candidates in the past. There are more registered Dems than Repubs in most states. b,121b,121People who gather voter registrations have to turn in all forms gathered. b,121This includes forms from people who are going to vote for the other guy. b,121This includes forms that were filled out with phony names, address...b,121b,121When 3rd parties collect voter registrations. They do not turn them directly in to the state elections office. First they enter the info in their data base. This allows them to start campaigning to new voters right away. When they see a suspect registration they flag it, but they still turn it in to the state elections.b,121b,121People, if you are registering to vote do it straight with the elections office (or on line, or with the post office. Do not let some volunteer or minimum wage worker handle your voter registration. b,121b,121I say this, even though I have worked in many campaigns doing voter registration drives. I have never seen any unethical behavior. Every one I have seen takes their duties very seriously. But I would never give my registration or ballot to a 3rd party. It is too important for that. b,121b,121Dan
  • soulmarcosasoulmarcosa 4,296 Posts
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    b,121 illegible to vote.
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