Pretty interesting. Live Nation has been making crazy moves of late.
Yep, there's a big battle to get ahead of AEG who are on a similar trajectory but own more venues. Live Nation also have the broadcast element though, which makes it more logical for them to own the artists they give airplay to and promote live. Interesting times for the live industry all round. Meanwhile the majors are still panicking but not actually working together as an industry to get back up there.
they are pushing it with a 10 year deal. will jay-z be selling out crowds at age 50? i don't know if i see rappers cashing in on tours when they are old and scary looking like the rolling stones (not to say 50 is that old).
i don't think run dmc could sell out a high school gymnasium.
overly expensive retirement packages for stars past their prime
sayin' as far as the whole "part of this contract is earmarked so he can start his own recording/distribution etc. with a focus on new ways of...." gtfoohwtbs. Let's throw money and aging stars at the problem, that will sell records!
i like how jay z thinks rappers coming up are using his career as an attainable model of success though. that's cute.
Pretty interesting. Live Nation has been spending incredible amounts of money and I don't see how they will ever make it back with the state of the economy and concert tuoring moves of late.
ha, i went to a run dmc show in 2000. there was about 75 people there. i think the stones and rem might have a little more money to invest in a decent stage show....not just 2 turntables and a mic.
Pretty interesting. Live Nation has been spending incredible amounts of money and I don't see how they will ever make it back with the state of the economy and concert tuoring moves of late.
There is money to burn at the moment. Spice Girls make $70m + from their recent tour, Rolling Stones make nearly $150m from their last tour alone. Live music now accounts for more than 40% of music biz revenues. Can Jay-Z recoup $15m a year for ten years across global releases, tours, merchandise and sponsorship? Yes, he can. And in a recession people still buy music.
interesting that they say his last album met with luke warm sales and then later in the article cite that American Gangster sold 1 million copies in the US.
1 million is not luke warm. I am doubting the 1 million though.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
Dunno if any Industry Insiders subscribe to Bob Lefsetz's email? Lefsetz is a bit of a nutcase, but he reaches a wide audience within the industry, and he makes some interesting points on the subject;
This is not the future of the music business, this is old men trying to cash in one more time to support their egregious, expansive, expensive lifestyles.
How many times has Michael Cohl sold his company? Do you think anything different is going on here? That he's not gussying up the "assets" to sell to someone more stupid than a beer company, otherwise known as the PUBLIC?
Don't sit down and analyze the dollars and cents. This is no different from Richard Branson signing the Rolling Stones so he could sell Virgin Records for a billion dollars. An act with marquee value but very few record sales. And this was before the days of 360 deals, when it was only about the record sales...
God, if Live Nation has Madonna and U2 and Jay-Z, the company must be worth a fortune, just like Warner has Led Zeppelin, CSNY and Neil Young. The only difference being Warner doesn't share in the touring revenues... Then again, is the catalog of these classic acts a better mover than Jay-Z's? And what's this you tell me, Live Nation DOESN'T GET THE CATALOG??
Granted, Jay-Z does better live business than most rappers, whose shows are not must see events... But isn't this tour propped up by Mary J. Blige? And isn't it kind of a post exec gig victory lap from Jay-Z who has come out of "retirement"? What does the future augur for Mr. Carter? Looking into my crystal ball, not zillions of dollars. If LL Cool J finally turned to ice, don't you think Jay-Z will too? Who would you rather be in business with, Michael Jordan or a twenty one year old NBA star? Live Nation is only interested in young talent to the degree it looks like it's a full service business so they can lay the company off on the public.
Now maybe Michael Cohl is a good match for Jay-Z. Both hustlers, willing to do almost anything to make a buck. The public might not know Cohl, but he's the guy dealing with resellers, he's doing whatever it takes to get his money back. The act gives up so much control for that guaranteed payment. If this is the music business, it's not the late sixties/early seventies heyday as much as a bizarre "Jetsons" construction wherein the artists are a pawn in the businessman's game... Speaking of which, why not a deal with Mr. Zimmerman himself? He'd like an upfront payment!
Where is the benefit to the public? These guarantees result in sky high prices. Breaking a track on the road? I think Jay-Z's been too far from the street. Not enough people are in attendance and people pay a fortune to hear the HITS! They don't want new stuff, which is hard to decipher in the cavernous halls these acts play in anyway...
Sure, there's no real money in records right now, touring is where it's at. But that doesn't mean in the twenty first century it will just be gallivanting dinosaurs and no one else. There will be new acts. They will have a following. Building them won't be easy, but will be helped with Internet word of mouth. You'll have to invest in their success. Maybe with sweat equity more than dollars. And maybe arenas will be a long shot for most. But that's the future. Theatre acts with rabid followings. The meanderings of these lumbering old acts is just the final breath of an industry that's run on fumes for far too long.
Invest in Live Nation? Yup, that's who I want to be in business with, concert promoters. Known for their honesty, and upfront business practices. Then again, look at Bear Stearns and its rescue by the government. The tiny music business is just a reflection of our country at large. Run by thieving men playing with funny money believing they have a right to power and a right to lifestyle. And it's always the public that bails them out, always the public that loses.
This is a Hail Mary pass to save Live Nation's stock. To freeze AEG out of the game. To make investors think Live Nation is the only team in town. It would be like the Yankees guaranteeing they're going to win the World Series EVERY year and saying it's not worth it to invest in any other team. Then again, it's worse. You can't get a new Major League Baseball franchise. You can't buy in. But anybody can buy into the record business. Hell, a lot of the venues are open to anybody willing to pay. A new model with new acts will emerge. These old players will be gone. And it won't be soon enough for me.
Personally, it'll be interesting to see if Jay-Z uses his headlining appearance at Glastonbury this year as a kind of shop-window with a view to raising his appeal as an international live draw to the kind of level he's already at in the US. Glastonbury has a pretty big international profile these days, and Jay will be playing to the kind of audience who, for the most part, wouldn't normally go to see a rap show. What's more, it's not the kind of crowd that'll throw bottles of piss at him (see 50 at Reading a few years back).
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
ha, i went to a run dmc show in 2000. there was about 75 people there. i think the stones and rem might have a little more money to invest in a decent stage show....not just 2 turntables and a mic.
The "Tougher Than Leather" tour which did the rounds in the UK in 1985 is probably the best live rap show I've ever seen. Production-wise, it was way beyond any rock show I saw around that time.
djsheep
3,620 Posts
Comments
Pretty interesting. Live Nation has been making crazy moves of late.
Yep, there's a big battle to get ahead of AEG who are on a similar trajectory but own more venues. Live Nation also have the broadcast element though, which makes it more logical for them to own the artists they give airplay to and promote live. Interesting times for the live industry all round. Meanwhile the majors are still panicking but not actually working together as an industry to get back up there.
i don't think run dmc could sell out a high school gymnasium.
as far as the whole "part of this contract is earmarked so he can start his own recording/distribution etc. with a focus on new ways of...." gtfoohwtbs. Let's throw money and aging stars at the problem, that will sell records!
i like how jay z thinks rappers coming up are using his career as an attainable model of success though. that's cute.
Run-Dmc live > Rolling Stones/R.E.M/etc... if DMC's voice was healed.
^^^^^WOULD RATHER SEE R.E.M. PERFORM THAN RUN-DMC
Spoken like a true Hillary supporter.
"Honey, u wanna go see Shine The Light this weekend?"
"Sure, but I have to make sure my goldfish are fed before we check it out."
There is money to burn at the moment. Spice Girls make $70m + from their recent tour, Rolling Stones make nearly $150m from their last tour alone. Live music now accounts for more than 40% of music biz revenues. Can Jay-Z recoup $15m a year for ten years across global releases, tours, merchandise and sponsorship? Yes, he can. And in a recession people still buy music.
1 million is not luke warm. I am doubting the 1 million though.
This is not the future of the music business, this is old men trying to cash in one more time to support their egregious, expansive, expensive lifestyles.
How many times has Michael Cohl sold his company? Do you think anything different is going on here? That he's not gussying up the "assets" to sell to someone more stupid than a beer company, otherwise known as the PUBLIC?
Don't sit down and analyze the dollars and cents. This is no different from Richard Branson signing the Rolling Stones so he could sell Virgin Records for a billion dollars. An act with marquee value but very few record sales. And this was before the days of 360 deals, when it was only about the record sales...
God, if Live Nation has Madonna and U2 and Jay-Z, the company must be worth a fortune, just like Warner has Led Zeppelin, CSNY and Neil Young. The only difference being Warner doesn't share in the touring revenues... Then again, is the catalog of these classic acts a better mover than Jay-Z's? And what's this you tell me, Live Nation DOESN'T GET THE CATALOG??
Granted, Jay-Z does better live business than most rappers, whose shows are not must see events... But isn't this tour propped up by Mary J. Blige? And isn't it kind of a post exec gig victory lap from Jay-Z who has come out of "retirement"? What does the future augur for Mr. Carter? Looking into my crystal ball, not zillions of dollars. If LL Cool J finally turned to ice, don't you think Jay-Z will too? Who would you rather be in business with, Michael Jordan or a twenty one year old NBA star? Live Nation is only interested in young talent to the degree it looks like it's a full service business so they can lay the company off on the public.
Now maybe Michael Cohl is a good match for Jay-Z. Both hustlers, willing to do almost anything to make a buck. The public might not know Cohl, but he's the guy dealing with resellers, he's doing whatever it takes to get his money back. The act gives up so much control for that guaranteed payment. If this is the music business, it's not the late sixties/early seventies heyday as much as a bizarre "Jetsons" construction wherein the artists are a pawn in the businessman's game... Speaking of which, why not a deal with Mr. Zimmerman himself? He'd like an upfront payment!
Where is the benefit to the public? These guarantees result in sky high prices. Breaking a track on the road? I think Jay-Z's been too far from the street. Not enough people are in attendance and people pay a fortune to hear the HITS! They don't want new stuff, which is hard to decipher in the cavernous halls these acts play in anyway...
Sure, there's no real money in records right now, touring is where it's at. But that doesn't mean in the twenty first century it will just be gallivanting dinosaurs and no one else. There will be new acts. They will have a following. Building them won't be easy, but will be helped with Internet word of mouth. You'll have to invest in their success. Maybe with sweat equity more than dollars. And maybe arenas will be a long shot for most. But that's the future. Theatre acts with rabid followings. The meanderings of these lumbering old acts is just the final breath of an industry that's run on fumes for far too long.
Invest in Live Nation? Yup, that's who I want to be in business with, concert promoters. Known for their honesty, and upfront business practices. Then again, look at Bear Stearns and its rescue by the government. The tiny music business is just a reflection of our country at large. Run by thieving men playing with funny money believing they have a right to power and a right to lifestyle. And it's always the public that bails them out, always the public that loses.
This is a Hail Mary pass to save Live Nation's stock. To freeze AEG out of the game. To make investors think Live Nation is the only team in town. It would be like the Yankees guaranteeing they're going to win the World Series EVERY year and saying it's not worth it to invest in any other team. Then again, it's worse. You can't get a new Major League Baseball franchise. You can't buy in. But anybody can buy into the record business. Hell, a lot of the venues are open to anybody willing to pay. A new model with new acts will emerge. These old players will be gone. And it won't be soon enough for me.
Personally, it'll be interesting to see if Jay-Z uses his headlining appearance at Glastonbury this year as a kind of shop-window with a view to raising his appeal as an international live draw to the kind of level he's already at in the US. Glastonbury has a pretty big international profile these days, and Jay will be playing to the kind of audience who, for the most part, wouldn't normally go to see a rap show. What's more, it's not the kind of crowd that'll throw bottles of piss at him (see 50 at Reading a few years back).
The "Tougher Than Leather" tour which did the rounds in the UK in 1985 is probably the best live rap show I've ever seen. Production-wise, it was way beyond any rock show I saw around that time.