Record Storing Conditions

behemoth

i just moved into a new place. my previous residence was very well heated. the new spot is considerably colder. i need to use a space heater. while it is temporary i am worried. i had the records there for none but 2 days and i noticed the jacket openings have become kind of warped and rippled. the records seem to be fine and my new room mate says that humidity is not a problem. he says if anything the place is too dry....could it be the huge change from warm to cold that caused this too happen? should i get something to make this not happen any worse?any ideas?

Controller_7

I don't know if cold and dry would ripple the records. You might be getting moisture from it being very cold inside and then the sun shining on the building in the day, causing moisture because of the temperature differential.

I had a really damp apartment once and I had to get a dehumidifier. There is a fairly simple test you can do and it requires no scientific or expensive tools. Go buy a box of lemonheads or cherry clans or whatever, the 25 cent kind, and leave them in your room. If you find them stuck together it's too damp in there. That's exactly what happened to me. I noticed a rippled record sleeve and when I went to eat a lemonhead they were all stuck together inside the box.

behemoth

I don't know if cold and dry would ripple the records. You might be getting moisture from it being very cold inside and then the sun shining on the building in the day, causing moisture because of the temperature differential.

I had a really damp apartment once and I had to get a dehumidifier. There is a fairly simple test you can do and it requires no scientific or expensive tools. Go buy a box of lemonheads or cherry clans or whatever, the 25 cent kind, and leave them in your room. If you find them stuck together it's too damp in there. That's exactly what happened to me. I noticed a rippled record sleeve and when I went to eat a lemonhead they were all stuck together inside the box.

haha golden advice. i saw the rippled sleeve and immediately bugged. i will do that. although i dont even know where to get Lemonheads anymore. does it work with Good n Plenty? and do i leave the box opened?

Controller_7

I cannot confirm the scientific nature of this study, but it was an eye opener for me.

Just make sure it's a candy that has a semi soft sugary outside like a lemonhead. A good and plenty might work. Probably. I'm sure there is a better test, but this is what tipped me off.

Do your window sills have condensation on them?

behemoth

I cannot confirm the scientific nature of this study, but it was an eye opener for me.

Just make sure it's a candy that has a semi soft sugary outside like a lemonhead. A good and plenty might work. Probably. I'm sure there is a better test, but this is what tipped me off.

Do your window sills have condensation on them?

not that i can see. like i said. i BELIEVE it is the sudden temperature drop. it is also a basement apartment. but my room mate swears it doesnt get humid in there. i am jusst worried its like this morning they felt cold to the touch and i was like "are these damp?""

noticed the openings were rippled even on MINT stuff

karlophone

big temperature changes cause condensation/evaporation from surfaces (like dew on grass but on an invisible to the eye level). the good news is that once back in a stable warmer temp, the ripplings should go away. ive bought records out of more than one unheated storage unit, and some very sad looking covers have turned out to be just fine later once they warmed up.

note that extreme rippling may *not* go away if the cardboard got damp enough to change the fiber/glue/etc in the covers construction.

behemoth

big temperature changes cause condensation/evaporation from surfaces (like dew on grass but on an invisible to the eye level). the good news is that once back in a stable warmer temp, the ripplings should go away. ive bought records out of more than one unheated storage unit, and some very sad looking covers have turned out to be just fine later once they warmed up.

note that extreme rippling may *not* go away if the cardboard got damp enough to change the fiber/glue/etc in the covers construction.

i don't think i suffer from extreme rippling but your thoughts ease my mind a little bit. like i said this residence is temporary.

thanks for all the help guys

hcrink

Yeah, his happens at my current apartment when I leave records on the floor. I've noticed that it doesn't affect any of my shelved records which I have sleeved in plastic and packed together fairly snug though. And, like Karlophone said, if it's just a slight ripple it'll flatten out. Just try to keep them somewhat elevated and in plastic if possible.

Jonny_Paycheck

Any old apartment is going to have serious temperature issues. The reason I use resealable bags in the shop on the wall records is because they will bow out if I just leave them there naked. I have a 70 year old radiator with no temperature gauge. We renovated in the summer; when the winter comes, the bathroom door no longer stays closed. It's not so much about the moisture in your apartment but in the air itself.

waxjunky

thejosephboys

recommended archival storage conditions are 70F/50RH. less of both, if you can swing it.

there's no telling what your basement conditions are, especially since you mentioned it being both dry and humid there. NY in the winter, however, sounds pretty dry to me, though "wild card" basement issues such as water heaters, unventilated laundry rooms, exposed piping, steam-driven heat, etc can change that in a second..

with LPs, we're talking about three substances here:
(1) polyvinyl chloride
(2) acidic paper
(3) various adhesives

(1) humidity isn't really an issue when it comes to vinyl unless significant water damage or long-term exposure to high RH are at play. humidity invites mold growth, of course. and while mold is gross it can be washed off with distilled water and a mild surfactant (soap). molds are really only an issue if they've been on the surface of a disc for prolonged periods of time. temperature is the real issue with vinyl; temp and direct light. both very obviously will encourage distortions/warping. a good way to combat this process - if indeed you're stuck in a warm environment - is to store your discs vertically (duh..) and relatively tightly on your shelves. not so tight that you create ringwear or smash them together, but tight enough to keep them absolutely perpendicular with the shelf so they don't lean in any one direction.

(2) acidic papers degrade faster in humid and warm environments but humidity is the bigger issue in the short-term, with direct contact to water being the no-brainer. i have to assume that, unless your current situation is seriously humid, the distortions you're noticing along the jacket opening were not caused by your storage environment. it takes direct contact with liquid to do what you described in just a short amount of time. for sure, humidity is a bitch. but it doesn't work that quickly. temp, for what it's worth, isn't much of an issue unless you're talking about 80F+ heat for years and years on end. and even then, it would take a few decades for the card stock or the paper backing to become embrittled.

(3) adhesives can become compromised due to prolonged exposure to intense dryness or direct contact with liquid, both of which are rather extreme scenarios. then again, it could just be a shitty adhesive. either way, this is the least of your problems owing to the fact that you don't listen to the jacket or the label.

serious fluctuations in temp and RH affect all three substances, which is why garages, attics, basements and other uncontrolled environments are bad news situations for record storage. especially in parts of the county that actually have seasons (unlike SF). then again, temp fluctuations damage magnetic tape way more than vinyl so, again, i'd worry less about that right now..

cheers,
Brandon.