Consonance vs Dissonance

emynd

The link to the neurological study from the James Mason had an interesting finding:"The study also revealed that the brain processes consonant and dissonant sounds in very different ways. Dissonant sounds affected areas of the brain involving memory and anxiety, while consonant sounds stimulated areas involved in pleasant emotional responses."My question(s) is(are): aren???t the concepts of "consonance" and "dissonance" socialized phenomenon though? Or aren???t they at least very subjective terms? Or is there something more "scientific" about the terms "consonacne" and "dissonance" that I???m failing to understand? And what about the fact that there???s a heck of a lot of dissonant music out there that people like (presumably) at an emotional level as well as an intellectual level?Anybody who knows more about this shit wanna school the lil' dude?-e

On_the_Red_Clay

My question(s) is(are): aren???t the concepts of "consonance" and "dissonance" socialized phenomenon though? Or aren???t they at least very subjective terms?

I've always thought that the concepts spring from music theory / composing, meaning that they are musical terms along the lines of minor or major, rhythm signature, etc..

The_Hook_Up

yeah, dissonance in music theory is the combination/series of notes that fall out of key with the root note...the most dissonant harmony in musical theory is the flat five...A to Eb for example...this is the combo that is used for european sirens on police and emergency vehicles because it is so dissonant as to stick out among the sounds of the city and to get ones attention. It is also used in heavy metal a lot, ie Black Sabbath "Black Sabbath".. E to Bb.

emynd

yeah, dissonance in music theory is the combination/series of notes that fall out of key with the root note...the most dissonant harmony in musical theory is the flat five...A to Eb for example...this is the combo that is used for european sirens on police and emergency vehicles because it is so dissonant as to stick out among the sounds of the city and to get ones attention. It is also used in heavy metal a lot, ie Black Sabbath "Black Sabbath".. E to Bb.

Word. Thanks. So then my point is that the statement "Dissonant sounds affected areas of the brain involving memory and anxiety, while consonant sounds stimulated areas involved in pleasant emotional responses" is probably inaccurate since I'm sure there are people out there who have a "pleasant emotional response" to the Black Sabbath dissonance. Agreed?

Perhaps then the terms themselves--"dissonance" and "consonance"--aren't exactly socialized since there is some sort've standardized/"scientific" basis to them, but surely our reactions to "dissonance" and "consonance" are--at least at some significant level--socially constructed, right?

-e

SensiRider

Physiological brain responses can be very much determined by factors other than or, more precisely, in addition to what people like to somewhat inaccurately call "biology" or genes.

In the case of a study like this the fact that consonance may be very different for fans of Bach, Korean opera, and Merzbow doesn't matter all that much since they're probably aggregating data from a number of subjects who are all socialized in a western context. The brain regions in question are fairly high-level and are modulated (and modulate) by experience.

The more interesting tests in terms of subjective/objective etc. type distinctions would be looking at early auditory processing areas where incoming sound streams are initially parsed. These are the regions that are less likely to be significantly different across individuals.

emynd

Physiological brain responses can be very much determined by factors other than or, more precisely, in addition to what people like to somewhat inaccurately call "biology" or genes.

In the case of a study like this the fact that consonance may be very different for fans of Bach, Korean opera, and Merzbow doesn't matter all that much since they're probably aggregating data from a number of subjects who are all socialized in a western context. The brain regions in question are fairly high-level and are modulated (and modulate) by experience.

The more interesting tests in terms of subjective/objective etc. type distinctions would be looking at early auditory processing areas where incoming sound streams are initially parsed. These are the regions that are less likely to be significantly different across individuals.

Awesome. Thanks. Anybody know of any studies that attempt to address this? Adorno wrote pretty extensively about the socialization of aesthetics, but I'd be interested to read some actual studies that holler at it, whether from a neurological standpoint, or a more opinion-based "I like/don't like this or that" type jawn.

-e

Dubious

i think the fact that dissonance effects memory and anxiety IS precisly why music like Black Sabbath, or Hendrix's Purple Haze effects us so highly. You get a charge, amped off that shit. Caffine causes anxiety, weed causes anxiety, some people LIKE anxiety.

p_gunn

also, what people aren't mentioning is although the intervals used in Black Sabbath, L'America by the Doors, etc etc are dissonant (tritone, flat 5th), the chords used in those songs are not, they are normal 1-5 "power chords", which are composed using perfect 5th interval. Go to a piano and try constructing a chord of 1 and flat 5. It will sound ugly. Dissonance intervals work usually only as way to set up their resolution in a consonant interval, which sounds like a release of tension (check john cale's keyboard playing in Sister Ray by V.U. or some of Bartok's later string quartets).

this IS an innate human thing. people prefer consonant intervals. I have read studies done on BABIES in their cribs smiling at perfect 5ths or 3rds and crying/frowing at minor 2nds and diminished 5ths, so you can't argue conditioning on that one.

Also, there is an element of nature in this. I.e., if you use say, A, as ringing at 440, and then take whatever the 5th of that is, if you divide it, it boils down to a small fraction, that is, i remember correctly, part of the Golden ratio (something you see in the way plants grow, the way snails shell's spiral, etc).

It's pretty interesting stuff and there's lots of info online, fibonacci sequence, stuff like that...

that said, i do admit that non-Western music is ALOT freer in their use of what we would call dissonant intervals like minor 2nds or flat 5ths, but even cultures like India that use these in their MELODIES will very rarely use them in their HARMONIES...

p_gunn

and it's something i sure you notice at least once at night in the club when you hear a DJ try to blend two songs and it just sounds muddy or wrong, even tho he's on beat... he's blending two songs that, key-wise, are totally dissonant... oh, and when you hear a beat and you're like, man the horn hit doesn't work at all, it sounds annoying... that's also why... out of key... the main thing DJ turned producers don't pay NEARLY enough attention to... not everyone is Muggs or RZA and can make the dissonance intervals sound dope... usually sounds fucking annoying...

Aaron

this IS an innate human thing. people prefer consonant intervals. I have read studies done on BABIES in their cribs smiling at perfect 5ths or 3rds and crying/frowing at minor 2nds and diminished 5ths, so you can't argue conditioning on that one.

Well, perfect thirds used to be considered quite dissonant. Nowadays, we resolve to perfect thirds in many instances.



Edit: Major thirds for all instances above. A II-V-I progression, for example.