The Greatest Americans

Fatback

Did anyone watch the "debates" leading up to this?

http://tv.channel.aol.com/greatestamerican

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/greatestamerican/top25/top25.html

the top five greatest Americans:

1. Ronald Reagan
2. Abraham Lincoln
3. Martin Luther King
4. George Washington
5. Benjamin Franklin

could someone esplain for me?

mylatency

ummm what what what?

awall

1. Ronald Reagan

Fatback

Oh, and George W. Bush is number 6.

hogginthefogg

So...Shadow was number 7?

Bambouche

1. Ronald Reagan

Indeed! I don't watch TV, but I found this in the archives. Ronny gets my vote for #1.


These mujahideen were significantly financed, armed, and trained by the United States under the presidencies of Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan. Reagan referred to these mujahideen as ???freedom fighters... defending principles of independence and freedom that form the basis of global security and stability.???

Twenty years before 9/11 the Reagan administration announced their war on terrorism would be the core of US foreign policy, particularly state-supported international terrorism, the most virulent form of ???the evil scourge of terrorism,??? as Reagan said. A plague spread by ???depraved opponents of civilization itself??? in ???a return to barbarism in the modern age,??? said Secretary of State George Shultz.

Support for anti-communist groups including armed insurgencies against communist governments was a part of Reagan's administration policy, referred to by his supporters as the ???Reagan Doctrine.??? Following this policy, the administration funded ???freedom fighters??? such as the mujahideen in Afghanistan, the Contras in Nicaragua, and Jonas Savimbi's rebel forces in Angola. The administration also helped fund central European anti-communist groups such as the Polish Solidarity movement and took a hard line against the Communist regime in Cambodia. Covert funding of the Contras in Nicaragua lead to the Iran Contra Affair, while overt support led to a World Court ruling against the United States in Nicaragua v. United States.

CIA-backed Contra terrorists murdered upwards of 40,000 civilians in the US funded aggression against the Sandinista government. Reagan labeled these groups as the moral equivalent to America's founding fathers. ???I'm a Contra too!??? (Newsweek, March 24, 1986, p. 20.)



Freedom figthers? War on Terror? Evil Scourge?[/b]



America leads by example:

UN General Assembly Resolution A/RES/42/159, adopted on 7 December 1987 explains terrorism does not apply to people struggling against racist and colonialist regimes or foreign occupation:

14. Considers that nothing in the present resolution could in any way prejudice the right to self-determination, freedom and independence, as derived from the Charter of the United Nations, of peoples forcibly deprived of that right referred to in the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, particularly peoples under colonial and racist regimes and foreign occupation or other forms of colonial domination, nor, in accordance with the principles of the Charter and in conformity with the above-mentioned Declaration, the right of these peoples to struggle to this end and to seek and receive support...

In favour:[/b] Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belgium, Bhutan, Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Byelorussia, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China, Colombia, Comoros, Congo, Costa Rica, C??te d'Ivoire, Cuba, Cyprus, Czechoslovakia, Democratic Kampuchea, Democratic Yemen, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, German Democratic Republic, Federal Republic of Germany, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kenya, Kuwait, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Mongolia, Morocco, Mozambique, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Romania, Rwanda, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent, Samoa, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somalia, Spain, Sri Lanka, St. Kitts and Nevis, Suriname, Swaziland, Sweden, Syria, Thailand, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, USSR, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United Republic of Tanzania, Uruguay, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Yugoslavia, Zaire, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

Against:[/b] Israel, United States.

bassie

Oh, and George W. Bush is number 6.

Obviously being the personal messenger of God's will doesn't hold a lot of weight.

Guzzo

I did more good in the 80's then Reagan

Where was I on the list?

mrmatthew

But giving away free Pontiacs certainly can help your ranking. Oprah is #9!

HAZ

I vote for this guy:



Peace

h

Fatback

I did more good in the 80's then Reagan

Where was I on the list?

Goddammit Adam. Did you evenlook at the lsit? You're on there.

HAZ

UN General Assembly Resolution A/RES/42/159, adopted on 7 December 1987 explains terrorism does not apply to people struggling against racist and colonialist regimes or foreign occupation:

14. Considers that nothing in the present resolution could in any way prejudice the right to self-determination, freedom and independence, as derived from the Charter of the United Nations, of peoples forcibly deprived of that right referred to in the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, particularly peoples under colonial and racist regimes and foreign occupation or other forms of colonial domination, nor, in accordance with the principles of the Charter and in conformity with the above-mentioned Declaration, the right of these peoples to struggle to this end and to seek and receive support...

In favour:[/b] Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belgium, Bhutan, Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Byelorussia, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China, Colombia, Comoros, Congo, Costa Rica, C??te d'Ivoire, Cuba, Cyprus, Czechoslovakia, Democratic Kampuchea, Democratic Yemen, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, German Democratic Republic, Federal Republic of Germany, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kenya, Kuwait, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Mongolia, Morocco, Mozambique, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Romania, Rwanda, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent, Samoa, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somalia, Spain, Sri Lanka, St. Kitts and Nevis, Suriname, Swaziland, Sweden, Syria, Thailand, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, USSR, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United Republic of Tanzania, Uruguay, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Yugoslavia, Zaire, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

Against:[/b] Israel, United States.

From half the places that voted in favour of this resolution, freedom, as we enjoy it, does not exist.

What's up with that?

h

Guzzo

I did more good in the 80's then Reagan

Where was I on the list?

Goddammit Adam. Did you evenlook at the lsit? You're on there.

yeah but I barely cracked the top 10.
This list is bullshit

Fatback

Lesotho's got mad rackords.

Fatback

Oh, and George W. Bush is number 6.

Bush is a former owner of the Texas Rangers and considers his knowledge of baseball trivia a hidden talent. His presidential influence has been felt in diverse ways, from the intricacies of White House etiquette -- he banned jeans from being worn in the Oval Office -- to the scope of his travels: As of January 2005, he has visited 41 countries plus Kosovo. Often cited for his alliance with Great Britain Prime Minister Tony Blair, Bush's first car was -- interestingly -- a British-made Triumph.[/b]

A Triumph? How mustaciously

asprin

Why is anyone ever surprised by these? Has there been a time when such circle jerks between the rich b/w media b/w politician been to your approval? I can't think of one.

Fatback

I cling to a little hope.





Foolishly.

spaceghost

Lesotho's got mad rackords.

does it? my sister is there right now... know any spots i should send her digging?

volumen

I missed most of it, but at the end they did this whole BS about how we forget aout all these important figures cuz we get wrapped up in daily media blitz like Jacko trial etc. But the reality is that #1 was a result of the whole revisionist media blitz that made Regan look like he actually did any good. Hell George Washington Carver did more good than Regan could have every concived of doing. That list is a fucking joke, esp if Bush was #6. yea, killing people in prision, stealing an election, and starting an illegal self serving war is exactly the stuff that make you great.

Bambouche

UN General Assembly Resolution A/RES/42/159, adopted on 7 December 1987 explains terrorism does not apply to people struggling against racist and colonialist regimes or foreign occupation:

14. Considers that nothing in the present resolution could in any way prejudice the right to self-determination, freedom and independence, as derived from the Charter of the United Nations, of peoples forcibly deprived of that right referred to in the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, particularly peoples under colonial and racist regimes and foreign occupation or other forms of colonial domination, nor, in accordance with the principles of the Charter and in conformity with the above-mentioned Declaration, the right of these peoples to struggle to this end and to seek and receive support...

In favour:[/b] Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belgium, Bhutan, Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Byelorussia, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China, Colombia, Comoros, Congo, Costa Rica, C??te d'Ivoire, Cuba, Cyprus, Czechoslovakia, Democratic Kampuchea, Democratic Yemen, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, German Democratic Republic, Federal Republic of Germany, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kenya, Kuwait, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Mongolia, Morocco, Mozambique, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Romania, Rwanda, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent, Samoa, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somalia, Spain, Sri Lanka, St. Kitts and Nevis, Suriname, Swaziland, Sweden, Syria, Thailand, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, USSR, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United Republic of Tanzania, Uruguay, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Yugoslavia, Zaire, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

Against:[/b] Israel, United States.

From half the places that voted in favour of this resolution, freedom, as we enjoy it, does not exist.

What's up with that?

h

Meanwhile, the US told its inhabitants that they are "Champions of Freedom"?




Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski (born March 28, 1928) served as United States National Security Advisor to President Carter from 1977 to 1981. A major foreign policy events during his office included arming Afghan mujaheddin to counter Soviet invasion.
Other activities of the CIA backed mujahadeen include:
Assassinating the president of Egypt. 1983 suicide bomber who drove the US army out of Lebanon Defending Muslims against the infidels. The US invasion of Saudi Arabia in 1990. Planned to blow up the World Trade Center in 1993, including plans to blow up the UN building, the Holland Tunnel, the Lincoln Tunnel (An Egyptian Cleric was jailed, whom was brought into the US with the help of the CIA.)
"They hate us because we champion a new world order of capitalism, individualism, secularism and democracy that should be the norm everywhere."
-- NY Times article by Ronald Steel



Champions? Democracy? The "norm"?[/b]





"The calculated use of violence or threat of violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."
(Department of Defense Directive 0-2000.12, p. 2-2, definiton of "terrorism".)



"... a political-military confrontation between contending states or groups below conventional war and above the routine, peaceful competition among states. It frequently involves protracted struggles of competing principles and ideologies. Low-intensity conflict ranges from subversion to the use of the armed forces. It is waged by a combination of means, employing political, economic, informational, and military instruments. Low-intensity conflicts are often localized, generally in the Third World, but contain regional and global security implications."
("Low-intensity conflict", as defined by the US Joint Chiefs of Staff -- as promulgated in the US Army Field Manual 100-20.)



Champions? Democracy? The "norm"?
Terrorists? Counter-Insurgents? [/b]

asprin

Can't wait to see the bullshit picture he's going to paint tomorrow night. So....how bout them Spurs, eh?

HAZ

UN General Assembly Resolution A/RES/42/159, adopted on 7 December 1987 explains terrorism does not apply to people struggling against racist and colonialist regimes or foreign occupation:

14. Considers that nothing in the present resolution could in any way prejudice the right to self-determination, freedom and independence, as derived from the Charter of the United Nations, of peoples forcibly deprived of that right referred to in the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, particularly peoples under colonial and racist regimes and foreign occupation or other forms of colonial domination, nor, in accordance with the principles of the Charter and in conformity with the above-mentioned Declaration, the right of these peoples to struggle to this end and to seek and receive support...

In favour:[/b] Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belgium, Bhutan, Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Byelorussia, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China, Colombia, Comoros, Congo, Costa Rica, C??te d'Ivoire, Cuba, Cyprus, Czechoslovakia, Democratic Kampuchea, Democratic Yemen, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, German Democratic Republic, Federal Republic of Germany, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kenya, Kuwait, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Mongolia, Morocco, Mozambique, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Romania, Rwanda, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent, Samoa, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somalia, Spain, Sri Lanka, St. Kitts and Nevis, Suriname, Swaziland, Sweden, Syria, Thailand, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, USSR, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United Republic of Tanzania, Uruguay, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Yugoslavia, Zaire, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

Against:[/b] Israel, United States.

From half the places that voted in favour of this resolution, freedom, as we enjoy it, does not exist.

What's up with that?

h

Meanwhile, the US told its inhabitants that they are "Champions of Freedom"?




Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski (born March 28, 1928) served as United States National Security Advisor to President Carter from 1977 to 1981. A major foreign policy events during his office included arming Afghan mujaheddin to counter Soviet invasion.
Other activities of the CIA backed mujahadeen include:
Assassinating the president of Egypt. 1983 suicide bomber who drove the US army out of Lebanon Defending Muslims against the infidels. The US invasion of Saudi Arabia in 1990. Planned to blow up the World Trade Center in 1993, including plans to blow up the UN building, the Holland Tunnel, the Lincoln Tunnel (An Egyptian Cleric was jailed, whom was brought into the US with the help of the CIA.)
"They hate us because we champion a new world order of capitalism, individualism, secularism and democracy that should be the norm everywhere."
-- NY Times article by Ronald Steel



Champions? Democracy? The "norm"?[/b]





"The calculated use of violence or threat of violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."
(Department of Defense Directive 0-2000.12, p. 2-2, definiton of "terrorism".)



"... a political-military confrontation between contending states or groups below conventional war and above the routine, peaceful competition among states. It frequently involves protracted struggles of competing principles and ideologies. Low-intensity conflict ranges from subversion to the use of the armed forces. It is waged by a combination of means, employing political, economic, informational, and military instruments. Low-intensity conflicts are often localized, generally in the Third World, but contain regional and global security implications."
("Low-intensity conflict", as defined by the US Joint Chiefs of Staff -- as promulgated in the US Army Field Manual 100-20.)



Champions? Democracy? The "norm"?
Terrorists? Counter-Insurgents? [/b]

Yeah, but it doesn't change the fact a bunch of countries on that list are run by governments that make the the most dyed in the wool Republican look like Ghandi. I think that's the real scary thing. Where the hell can good people live in peace?

h

Bsides

Im sorry, Im pretty aware that big wig billionaires and media bitches are in bed with eachother...

but ronald fucking REAGAN? Rot.In.Pieces asshole! Trickle down your moms nasty vag you wasted cumshot.

Number 1 american ever? Duh! Its obviously Jesus!

Guzzo

Im sorry, Im pretty aware that big wig billionaires and media bitches are in bed with eachother...

but ronald fucking REAGAN? Rot.In.Pieces asshole! Trickle down your moms nasty vag you wasted cumshot.

Number 1 american ever? Duh! Its obviously Jesus! Adam L. Klein

I'm tellin' y'all I was robbed!

twoply

Why is anyone ever surprised by these? Has there been a time when such circle jerks between the rich b/w media b/w politician been to your approval? I can't think of one.

Tell it like it is, Ill T.

LaserWolf

I did more good in the 80's then Reagan

Where was I on the list?

LaserWolf

Did anyone watch the "debates" leading up to this?

http://tv.channel.aol.com/greatestamerican

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/greatestamerican/top25/top25.html

the top five greatest Americans:

1. Ronald Reagan
2. Abraham Lincoln
3. Martin Luther King
4. George Washington
5. Benjamin Franklin

could someone esplain for me?

Damn you all this was an online voting thing, not a scholarly or even journalistic or media list.

Lets do our own.

Off the top of my head:
1) Guzzo
2) Ben Franklin
3) Thomas Jefferson
4) John Brown
5) Sojurn Truth
6) Fanny Lou Hammer
7) Robert Oppenhiemer
8) Thomas Edison (invented the record player!)
9) Charles R. Drew
10)Jackie Robinson

funky16corners

Did anyone watch the "debates" leading up to this?

http://tv.channel.aol.com/greatestamerican

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/greatestamerican/top25/top25.html

the top five greatest Americans:

1. Ronald Reagan

HOLY FLARKING SCHNITT?!?!?[/b]

The_Hook_Up

my picks





(she is just too damn hot not to be the top 5 )

funky16corners

(she is just too damn hot not to be the top 5 )

I concur wholeheartedly. She's done some historic work on film concerned with liberating herself from the "symbolic prison" of clothing. A regular freedom fighter...