Journalists and Scholars, Holler

yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,332 Posts
edited June 2007 in Strut Central
So I'm kinda working on probably my first ever article, about (surprise) basketball.I'm probably getting waaaay ahead of myself here, but I wanted to ask O-dub, Dante Cafargna, Harvey, Big Stacks, and others who've had their writings published and what not.My question is, did you send the same piece to multiple places?Bear in mind, I am not a journalism major and such so any other tips would be greatly appreciated as well.Peace.
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  • grandpa_shiggrandpa_shig 5,799 Posts
    rafu shimpo beat reporter?

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,332 Posts
    rafu shimpo beat reporter?

    hahaha. FA shoizzles. LOCAL HEADZ KNOW THE DEAL.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    I typically don't write anything until it's been assigned to me.

    In your case, you might like to pitch the mere idea of your article across multiple publications...then if someone bites, cater the article to that publication's style.

    And make sure up front that they intend to pay you x amount.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,332 Posts
    Ahh good points.

    cater the article to that publication's style.

    I thought about this, before I wrote my little piece and said to myself "if I have to cater to a certain style and it ends up sounding tasteless, then it probably won't be published anywhere, anyway." But I understand your point. There is certainly a different tone that each place is going for.

  • DB_CooperDB_Cooper Manhatin' 7,823 Posts
    question is, did you send the same piece to multiple places?

    You don't actually have to finish the article before you shop it. As a rookie to the game without a reputation, you'll be working "on spec." Write up the first paragraph or two of the piece and provide an outline for the rest. Then find out which editor at each magazine/newspaper etc. handles submissions of your sort (in the case of a newspaper, that might be the Sports page editor, for example) Send out the proposal, and if it's accepted, work out the pay rate you'll receive if the magazine/newspaper etc. decides to run it. Since you're working on spec, you'll have to submit the finished piece, and if they run it, they pay you. If not, you're free to shop it elsewhere.

    And you should definitely cater the piece to the publication. One of the most important elements of good writing is to visualize your reader and write as though you are speaking only to that specific reader. The prototypical Sports Illustrated reader is very different from the prototypical Archeological Digest reader, and should be addressed differently.

    Good luck.

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,473 Posts
    What HC and Great Blue Hills said. When you're pitching an article blind (i.e. they didn't ask you to pitch something), you need to sell the editor/publication on your idea or angle moreso than the actual writing. A sample paragraph or two is a good idea, but if a publication is going to accept it, there will probably be suggestions on where your article should go and how to take it there; if you present them with a completed article, it becomes somewhat more of a "take it or leave it" proposition, in which case the odds are they will decide to leave it.

    Also, Great Blue Hills made an excellent point about catering to an audience. SI is going to have a different readership than Slam, which will be different form ESPN, and so on. If you sell them on your idea, then you can flesh out the article in a way that's appropriate for that particular magazine, which is a better look than just writing the article and hoping it will fit in somewhere.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    So I'm kinda working on probably my first ever article, about (surprise) basketball.

    I'm probably getting waaaay ahead of myself here, but I wanted to ask O-dub, Dante Cafargna, Harvey, Big Stacks, and others who've had their writings published and what not.

    My question is, did you send the same piece to multiple places?

    Bear in mind, I am not a journalism major and such so any other tips would be greatly appreciated as well.

    Peace.

    Yuichi,

    Here's my advice:

    Regardless if you've finished the piece or not, shop the IDEA to publications, but don't tell them you've actually written it (if you indeed have). Editors don't like getting finished pieces that haven't been solicited. There's a logic behind it but I'll save you the long explanation and just say: it's poor form.

    Personally, I don't recommend targeting multiple publications at once. After all, what if Publication A and B both say "yes"? Then you're in the position to have to explain, "uh, I can't do it for one of you b/c someone else just greenlit it." It's a surefire way to NEVER get work from one, or both of those publications.

    Instead, target a list of publications and then order them in terms of who you want to holler at first. Send them the pitch. Give the editor at least a week to get back to you. Keep in mind that depending on the pub, they may not be able to holler back if they're in the middle of closing an issue (this is mostly a problem with monthly magazines). If you don't hear back after 7-10 days (which should include one polite follow-up), step to the next publication. Even if Publication A gets back to you at that point, you can very politely explain, "I didn't hear from you so I moved on. Sorry!"

    Once you get the pitch greenlit, make sure what you want and what your editor wants is more or less on the same page. Ideally, if you've already written the piece, then turn in that finished piece by the deadline.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts

    Also, Great Blue Hills made an excellent point about catering to an audience. SI is going to have a different readership than Slam, which will be different form ESPN, and so on. If you sell them on your idea, then you can flesh out the article in a way that's appropriate for that particular magazine, which is a better look than just writing the article and hoping it will fit in somewhere.

    Any ideas as to the traits of the audience for Kobecentric Basketball Science?

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    And make sure up front that they intend to pay you x amount.

    TRUUUUUTH.

    Make sure your business is straight, especially with a smaller publications with possibly suspect finances. In some cases, you can negotiate to get paid upon SUBMISSION (normally, it's upon publication) but to be honest, if you're a first time writer for an editor, it's not likely they're going to be square with that kind of arrangement.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,332 Posts
    Hey thanks guys for all of that information. Quite intimidating but what have I got to lose.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,332 Posts

    Also, Great Blue Hills made an excellent point about catering to an audience. SI is going to have a different readership than Slam, which will be different form ESPN, and so on. If you sell them on your idea, then you can flesh out the article in a way that's appropriate for that particular magazine, which is a better look than just writing the article and hoping it will fit in somewhere.

    Any ideas as to the traits of the audience for Kobecentric Basketball Science?

    Intelligence, objectivity, and slender fit?

    b/w

    Obviously, SI or ESPN are longshots, but I've found this other site, which focuses on careful player analysis.

  • grandpa_shiggrandpa_shig 5,799 Posts
    soulstrut?

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    Yuichi,

    It's not really that intimidating. I'm sure some of the other freelancers around here can chime in too, but it's really about cultivating a good relationship with an editor. That takes less hoop-jumping and more just good hustling and people skills. Of course, good writing helps but if your hustling skills are weak, then it doesn't matter how good your writing is.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,332 Posts
    Yuichi,

    It's not really that intimidating. I'm sure some of the other freelancers around here can chime in too, but it's really about cultivating a good relationship with an editor. That takes less hoop-jumping and more just good hustling and people skills. Of course, good writing helps but if your hustling skills are weak, then it doesn't matter how good your writing is.

    That, is something I can take a few more pointers from you about. Catch you later Odub.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    soulstrut?

    www.kb24.com





    Seriously, best of luck with the endeavor, yuichi--and don't get discouraged if it takes more than one pitch before someone bites.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,332 Posts
    soulstrut?

    True. I've dropped many a truth nugget on this great forum.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,332 Posts
    soulstrut?

    www.kb24.com





    Seriously, best of luck with the endeavor, yuichi--and don't get discouraged if it takes more than one pitch before someone bites.

    Wow, encouragement from THE ONE. Thanks man. It's an endeavor worth pursuing for me. Baby steps.

  • d_wordd_word 666 Posts
    It's not really that intimidating. I'm sure some of the other freelancers around here can chime in too, but it's really about cultivating a good relationship with an editor.

    This is good to keep in mind.

    I write for a few city newspapers and a handful of magazines (on news related issues, mostly, but I've covered sports.) It is tough to get started, but once you become a regular writer for an editor, you'll be set.

    If you really want to cover basketball, I'd suggest walking into a community newspaper and offer to cover high school or college games. Some small newsrooms are desperate for this sort of writer. Good features stories to pitch are on upcoming young, local players. Maybe after a few decent stories from you they'd be more likely to take your feature piece.

  • white_teawhite_tea 3,262 Posts
    ^^^^ Yup, pitch and deliver a good sports feature to a smaller newspaper, and they'll be sending you to cover high school sports in no time. It's how most sports writers get started. Also, not a bad side gig/night job if it's not what you want to do full time, not that such a job would pay the bills anyway.

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,391 Posts
    I prefer it when writers come in to me with more than one idea so that I can get the measure of the writer and understand where they might best be used.

    Time sensitive pieces rarely come off given the limitations of monthly / weekly publishing. Dailies are obviously better for the breaking stuff.

    See if you can get in to see an editor for 20 minutes and just get your face known and then maintain contact.

    Always pitch the idea, never the finished piece unless it's some kind of exclusive interview or investigative piece.

    Don't give up - rejection and freelance journalism go hand in hand. Do not quibble about money when you're trying to get a footing.

    Do stick some of writing up on a blog somewhere or leave some of your articles (published or unpublished) with the publication.

    Do tailor pieces to the publication - look at their usual word counts, article structure and tone and be aware of the demographic.

    Don't be precious about having your pieces cut to ribbons by subs and editors. Accept that the killer line you lovingly crafted might not make the final cut.

    Be enthusiastic and believe in your own ability...and just write. Lots.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Do not quibble about money when you're trying to get a footing.


    Don't quibble, but do immediately slap any editor who thinks that just the opportunity that they're potentially granting you justifies you doing work for them for free.

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,391 Posts
    Do not quibble about money when you're trying to get a footing.


    Don't quibble, but do immediately slap any editor who thinks that just the opportunity that they're potentially granting you justifies you doing work for them for free.

    Save the slapping for the follow up piece maybe...

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Even completely down and out bums specify that at a minimum, they'll...WORK FOR FOOD.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Even completely down and out bums specify that at a minimum, they'll...WORK FOR FOOD.

    There's a guy in Austin who hangs out on the corner of the Salvation Army that's right off I-35 around 20th St or so,.....he has a sign that reads .....

    "Will Sleep For Food"

  • jamesjames chicago 1,863 Posts
    [A]nd just write. Lots.

    The importance of this simply cannot be overstated.

    I'm not a writer myself, but I read a fair amount, and I've come to believe there is nothing single-handedly responsible for more bad writing than writers who clearly do not write that much or that often, who seem more occupied with Being A Writer than with actually writing, and who aren't coming with their best shit--they're coming with their only shit. To paraphrase Lyor Cohen: "If you're a writer, write, motherfucker!" If you don't write a lot, you'll always be sweating where the next line is coming from, and that necessary stinginess will worm its way out, and your writing will reek of preciousness, insecurity, and of ideas spread too thin. If you write a lot, you'll be more fluid, you'll have a better understanding of your own patterns, you'll have more ideas, and they will come easier, and it will show.

    So, yeah: Write, write, write.

  • JimBeamJimBeam Seattle. 2,012 Posts
    If you get something published, plaese to link the strut!

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    [A]nd just write. Lots.

    The importance of this simply cannot be overstated.

    I'm not a writer myself, but I read a fair amount, and I've come to believe there is nothing single-handedly responsible for more bad writing than writers who clearly do not write that much or that often, who seem more occupied with Being A Writer than with actually writing, and who aren't coming with their best shit--they're coming with their only shit. To paraphrase Lyor Cohen: "If you're a writer, write, motherfucker!" If you don't write a lot, you'll always be sweating where the next line is coming from, and that necessary stinginess will worm its way out, and your writing will reek of preciousness, insecurity, and of ideas spread too thin. If you write a lot, you'll be more fluid, you'll have a better understanding of your own patterns, you'll have more ideas, and they will come easier, and it will show.

    So, yeah: Write, write, write.

    That's good advice, but actually only half of the equation. The other half being...

    Live, live, live.

    You can't just stay confined in your ivory tower. You can't just rely on your own personal perspective. You gotta get out there in the trenches and immerse yourself. Otherwise you'll run out of interesting things to say as quickly as you started.

    Oh yeah, and read 5 books for every page that you write.

  • jamesjames chicago 1,863 Posts
    [A]nd just write. Lots.

    The importance of this simply cannot be overstated.

    I'm not a writer myself, but I read a fair amount, and I've come to believe there is nothing single-handedly responsible for more bad writing than writers who clearly do not write that much or that often, who seem more occupied with Being A Writer than with actually writing, and who aren't coming with their best shit--they're coming with their only shit. To paraphrase Lyor Cohen: "If you're a writer, write, motherfucker!" If you don't write a lot, you'll always be sweating where the next line is coming from, and that necessary stinginess will worm its way out, and your writing will reek of preciousness, insecurity, and of ideas spread too thin. If you write a lot, you'll be more fluid, you'll have a better understanding of your own patterns, you'll have more ideas, and they will come easier, and it will show.

    So, yeah: Write, write, write.

    That's good advice, but actually only half of the equation. The other half being...

    Live, live, live.

    You can't just stay confined in your ivory tower. You can't just rely on your own personal perspective. You gotta get out there in the trenches and immerse yourself. Otherwise you'll run out of interesting things to say as quickly as you started.

    I would agree with the essence of that, but would stress the importance of maintaining the balance. Technique-heavy Ivory-Tower Dudes drawing on dry wells are useless, but equally useless are experience-heavy Dudes Who Were There, Man, but can't write well enough to convey that There in any meaningful way.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    [A]nd just write. Lots.

    The importance of this simply cannot be overstated.

    I'm not a writer myself, but I read a fair amount, and I've come to believe there is nothing single-handedly responsible for more bad writing than writers who clearly do not write that much or that often, who seem more occupied with Being A Writer than with actually writing, and who aren't coming with their best shit--they're coming with their only shit. To paraphrase Lyor Cohen: "If you're a writer, write, motherfucker!" If you don't write a lot, you'll always be sweating where the next line is coming from, and that necessary stinginess will worm its way out, and your writing will reek of preciousness, insecurity, and of ideas spread too thin. If you write a lot, you'll be more fluid, you'll have a better understanding of your own patterns, you'll have more ideas, and they will come easier, and it will show.

    So, yeah: Write, write, write.

    That's good advice, but actually only half of the equation. The other half being...

    Live, live, live.

    You can't just stay confined in your ivory tower. You can't just rely on your own personal perspective. You gotta get out there in the trenches and immerse yourself. Otherwise you'll run out of interesting things to say as quickly as you started.

    I would agree with the essence of that, but would stress the importance of maintaining the balance. Technique-heavy Ivory-Tower Dudes drawing on dry wells are useless, but equally useless are experience-heavy Dudes Who Were There, Man, but can't write well enough to convey that There in any meaningful way.

    Yep, you are correct. It goes both ways.

  • pointmanpointman 1,042 Posts
    I prefer it when writers come in to me with more than one idea so that I can get the measure of the writer and understand where they might best be used.

    Time sensitive pieces rarely come off given the limitations of monthly / weekly publishing. Dailies are obviously better for the breaking stuff.

    See if you can get in to see an editor for 20 minutes and just get your face known and then maintain contact.

    Always pitch the idea, never the finished piece unless it's some kind of exclusive interview or investigative piece.

    Don't give up - rejection and freelance journalism go hand in hand. Do not quibble about money when you're trying to get a footing.

    Do stick some of writing up on a blog somewhere or leave some of your articles (published or unpublished) with the publication.

    Do tailor pieces to the publication - look at their usual word counts, article structure and tone and be aware of the demographic.

    Don't be precious about having your pieces cut to ribbons by subs and editors. Accept that the killer line you lovingly crafted might not make the final cut.

    Be enthusiastic and believe in your own ability...and just write. Lots.



    This is all greavt advice. I would add:

    Once you have a green light, OBEY THE WORD COUNT.
    Editors don't enjoy taking extra time out of the day to trim your 1500 word assignment down from 3000. That can get your work a quick trip to the trash can.
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