Che And The Youth

GuzzoGuzzo 8,611 Posts
edited May 2005 in Strut Central
really though I never understood how he became such an Icon with memrobilia available to buy at amny stores.Fidel Castro's homei wasn't exactly a saint and what makes things even more head scratching is that he's become such a capitalist moneymaker.Anybody got some insight into this?

  Comments


  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    kids are dumb. buying shirts with dudes head on them goes against everything he was for.

  • meatyogremeatyogre 2,080 Posts
    this is hardly a new thing though. Dudes have been rockin Che shit since the 70s

  • GuzzoGuzzo 8,611 Posts
    this is hardly a new thing though. Dudes have been rockin Che shit since the 70s



    youre right, but I just don't get it turning Che into a bestseller kinda kills the ideology he stood for

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,329 Posts
    hey if it's dangerous it'll sell right?

  • mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
    yes


  • ReynaldoReynaldo 6,054 Posts
    Attractive, magnetic, compelling, alluring, captivating, charismatic, mesmeric, fascinating, powerful, influential, commanding, authoritative, dominant, forceful, strong, passionate.



    absorbing, amiable, appealing, bewitching, charismatic, choice, delectable, delicate, delightful, desirable, electrifying, elegant, enamoring, engaging, engrossing, enthralling, entrancing, eye-catching, fascinating, fetching, glamorous, graceful, infatuating, inviting, irresistible, likeable, lovable, lovely, magnetizing, nice, pleasant, pleasing, provocative, rapturous, ravishing, seducing, seductive, sweet, tantalizing, tempting, titillating, winsome, able, able-bodied, active, athletic, beefy, big, brawny, bulk, burly, capable, durable, enduring, energetic, firm, fixed, forceful, forcible, hale, hardy, healthy, hearty, heavy, heavy-duty, husky, lusty, manly, mighty, muscular, potent, powerful, reinforced, robust, rugged, secure, sinewy, solid, sound, stable, stalwart, stark, staunch, steady, stout, strapping, sturdy, substantial, tenacious, tough, unyielding, vigorous, virile, well-built, well-founded, well-made.


  • speshboogiespeshboogie 105 Posts
    The C.I.A. & Bolivians chopping dudes hands off is some crazy shit !

    They were shook of him!


  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,387 Posts
    Korda's famous image began getting really popular in around 1968 with all the student rebellions and political unrest across Europe - that's when Che became a worldwide symbol of rebellion and revolution. Good looking guy, great image, fought the capitalist pigs, looked a bit hippyish, lived fast and died young. What more do you want in a pin-up boy for the revolution? No saint but that's another story.







    "They who sing victory over his death are mistaken. They are mistaken who believe that his death is the defeat of his ideas, the defeat of his tactics, the defeat of his guerrilla concepts ... If we want to know how we want our children to be we should say, with all our revolutionary mind and heart: We want them to be like Che."



    Fidel Castro 1967


  • SooksSooks 710 Posts
    Fidel Castro's homei wasn't exactly a saint and what makes things even more head scratching is that he's become such a capitalist moneymaker.

    Anybody got some insight into this?

    The reason that he was (is) so admired is that, even after he and Fidel and the rest of the merry old bunch won the revolution, he didn't stick around to enjoy the fruits of his labour - instead he trucked off to Bolivia to try and start a revolutionary movement over there. Then the photo became an icon, and then it became fashion.

  • BamboucheBambouche 1,484 Posts
    youre right, but I just don't get it turning Che into a bestseller kinda kills the ideology he stood for


    It's rumored, that while he was cornered in Bolivia, just before the US killed him, Che said:

    ???Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man.???




    I've read most of his diaries and writings of guerrilla warfare, and profiteering corporate wannabe-detournement ad campaigns are trying to turn his symbol in sales. It's fairly unclever, but what do you expect? They make shoes, not changes.

    There's much that is not pretty in Guevara's work. Executing. Jungle fighting. Torture. Putting down his medical supplies to pick up ammunition. Doctor to Revolutionary. Dr Ernesto Rafael Guevara de la Sern to a Tshirt.

    If the US was so anti-socialist, it'd be interesting to see what came of his ideals. Reminiscent of the Haymarket martyrs, however, he was bound to end in Bolivia. Still, I pay less attention to his face on a shirt and more attention to what he wrote... The moderation of extremist that drove him to turn his life into a movement.


    Sloganeering.




    ???Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man.???[/b]



    ???Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man.???[/b]



    ???Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man.???[/b]



    ???Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man.???[/b]



    ???Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man.???[/b]


  • KARLITOKARLITO 991 Posts
    It's rumored, that while he was cornered in Bolivia, just before the US killed him, Che said:

    ???Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man.???
    that is probably one of the most things I've ever heard. I wish I had that kind of conviction about something.

  • ArchaicArchaic 633 Posts


    Fidel Castro's homei wasn't exactly a saint

    Plaese to explain.

  • motown67motown67 4,513 Posts
    Fidel Castro's homei wasn't exactly a saint and what makes things even more head scratching is that he's become such a capitalist moneymaker.

    Anybody got some insight into this?

    The reason that he was (is) so admired is that, even after he and Fidel and the rest of the merry old bunch won the revolution, he didn't stick around to enjoy the fruits of his labour and after completely failing as head of the Ministry of Industry[/b]- instead he trucked off to Bolivia to try and start a revolutionary movement over there. Then the photo became an icon, and then it became fashion.

  • SooksSooks 710 Posts
    Fidel Castro's homei wasn't exactly a saint and what makes things even more head scratching is that he's become such a capitalist moneymaker.

    Anybody got some insight into this?

    The reason that he was (is) so admired is that, even after he and Fidel and the rest of the merry old bunch won the revolution, he didn't stick around to enjoy the fruits of his labour and after completely failing as head of the Ministry of Industry[/b]- instead he trucked off to Bolivia to try and start a revolutionary movement over there. Then the photo became an icon, and then it became fashion.

    Yes, it's true that many of his policies were short-sighted and failed, but no-one was going to kick him out - he could've lived a comfortable life as a bureaucrat in post-revolutionary cuba if he'd have wanted.

  • BamboucheBambouche 1,484 Posts


    Fidel Castro's homei wasn't exactly a saint

    Plaese to explain.





    I didn't really want to be the one, but since Archaic stepped up, let me just say while Ernesto might not have been, in Guzzo's words, "exactly a saint," compared to US foreign policy he is a god. In the last 3 weeks I've prolly spent 200 hours reading and reviewing archival documents of these jingocidal united states, and we kill without cause, without provocation, and without conscious.



    A few of the many examples.





    Uncle Sam - "not exactly a saint."[/b]







    Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski[/b]





    US NSA Advisor to Carter. Look this dude up. Especially his work in forming the CIA-funded mujahedeen, as well as his work with chemical warfare. A TRUE US LEADER!











    Emilio Aguinaldo y Famy, Filipino general, politician, and independence leader. Instrumental in the Philippine Revolution against Spain as well as the Philippine-American War (in opposition to American occupation). Aguinaldo is recognized as the Philippines first president, though the US doesn't recognize him. Aguinaldo led resistance to the American occupation and was captured in Palanan, Isabela on March 23, 1901 by US General Frederick Funston, who had gained access to Aguinaldo's camp by pretending to surrender to the Filipinos. For his ???bravery,??? Funston was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor and was soon after promoted to the rank of Brigadier General.





    I've gone through the current issue of the CIA Factbook, and compared the statistics of the US for a few of the countries we've INVADED LIBERATED. I find it interesting. (Oh, and I found a cache of war photos as well.)







    AREA (square km)

    US: 9,631,418 sq km (9,161,923 land, 469,495 water) - about half the size of Russia; about three-tenths the size of Africa; slightly larger than Brazil, and a half times the size of Western Europe

    Vietnam: 329,560 (325,360 land 4,200 water) - slightly larger than New Mexico

    Iraq: 437,072 (432,162 land, 4,910 water) - slightly more than twice the size of Idaho

    North Korea: 120,540 (120,410 land, 130 water) - slightly smaller than Mississippi

    Philippines: 300,000 (298,170 land, 1,830 water) - slightly larger than Arizona

    Afghanistan: 647,500 (647,500 land, 0 water) - slightly smaller than Texas







    POPULATION (July 2004 est.)

    US: 293,027,571

    Vietnam: 82,689,518

    Iraq: 25,374,691

    North Korea: 22,697,553

    Philippines: 86,241,697

    Afghanistan: 28,513,677







    NATURAL RESOURCES

    US: coal, copper, lead, molybdenum, phosphates, uranium, bauxite, gold, iron, mercury, nickel, potash, silver, tungsten, zinc, petroleum, natural gas, timber

    Vietnam: phosphates, coal, manganese, bauxite, chromate, offshore oil and gas deposits, forests, hydropower

    Iraq: petroleum, natural gas, [/b]phosphates, sulfur

    North Korea: coal, lead, tungsten, zinc, graphite, magnesite, iron ore, copper, gold, pyrites, salt, fluorspar, hydropower

    Philippines: timber, petroleum, nickel, cobalt, silver, gold, salt, copper

    Afghanistan: natural gas, petroleum, coal, copper, chromite, talc, barites, sulfur, lead, zinc, iron ore, salt, precious and semiprecious stones







    ETHNIC GROUPS

    US: white 77.1%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%, Amerindian and Alaska native 1.5%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.3%, other 4%

    Vietnam: Vietnamese 85%-90%, Chinese, Hmong, Thai, Khmer, Cham, mountain groups

    Iraq: Arab 75%-80%, Kurdish 15%-20%, Turkoman, Assyrian or other 5%

    North Korea: racially homogeneous; there is a small Chinese community and a few ethnic Japanese

    Philippines: Christian Malay 91.5%, Muslim Malay 4%, Chinese 1.5%, other 3%

    Afghanistan: Pashtun 42%, Tajik 27%, Hazara 9%, Uzbek 9%, Aimak 4%, Turkmen 3%, Baloch 2%, other 4%







    RELIGIONS

    US: Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)

    Vietnam: Buddhist, Hoa Hao, Cao Dai, Christian (predominantly Roman Catholic, some Protestant), indigenous beliefs, Muslim

    Iraq: Muslim 97% (Shi'a 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%), Christian or other 3%

    North Korea: traditionally Buddhist and Confucianist, some Christian and syncretic Chondogyo (Religion of the Heavenly Way)

    Philippines: Roman Catholic 83%, Protestant 9%, Muslim 5%, Buddhist and other 3%

    Afghanistan: Sunni Muslim 80%, Shi'a Muslim 19%, other 1%



    PEOPLE LIVING WITH HIV/AIDS (2003 est.)

    US: 950,000

    Vietnam: 220,000

    Iraq: less than 500

    North Korea: NA

    Philippines: 9,000

    Afghanistan: NA



    GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT ((GDP) Purchasing Power Parity, 2003 est.)

    US: $10.99 trillion

    Vietnam: $203.7 billion

    Iraq: $37.92 billion

    North Korea: $29.58 billion

    Philippines: $390.7 billion

    Afghanistan: $20 billion







    POPULATION BELOW POVERTY LINE

    US: 12% (2003 est.)

    Vietnam: 37% (1998 est.)

    Iraq: NA

    North Korea: NA

    Philippines: 40% (2001 est.)

    Afghanistan: 23% (2002)







    LABOR FORCE

    US: 147.4 million (includes unemployed) (2003)

    Vietnam: 45.74 million (2003 est.)

    Iraq: 7.8 million (2004 est.)

    North Korea: 9.6 million

    Philippines: 34.56 million (2003)

    Afghanistan: 11.8 million (2001 est.)







    LABOR FORCE BY OCCUPATION

    US: managerial, professional, and technical 34.9%, sales and office 25.5%, manufacturing, extraction, transportation, and crafts 22.7%, other services 16.3%, farming, forestry, and fishing 0.7%

    Vietnam: agriculture 63%, industry and services 37% (2000 est.)

    Iraq: agriculture NA, industry NA, services NA

    North Korea: agricultural 36%, nonagricultural 64%

    Philippines: agriculture 45%, industry 15%, services 40% (2003 est.)

    Afghanistan: agriculture 80%, industry 10%, services 10% (1990 est.)



    UNEMPLOYMENT RATE

    US: 6%

    Vietnam: 6.1% (2003 est.)

    Iraq: NA (2003 est.)

    North Korea: NA (2003)

    Philippines: 11.4% (2003)

    Afghanistan: NA (2003)



    AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS

    US: wheat, corn, other grains, fruits, vegetables, cotton; beef, pork, poultry, dairy products; forest products; fish

    Vietnam: paddy rice, corn, potatoes, rubber, soybeans, coffee, tea, bananas, sugar; poultry, pigs, fish

    Iraq: wheat, barley, rice, vegetables, dates, cotton; cattle, sheep

    North Korea: rice, corn, potatoes, soybeans, pulses; cattle, pigs, pork, eggs

    Philippines: rice, coconuts, corn, sugarcane, bananas, pineapples, mangoes, pork, eggs, beef, fish

    Afghanistan: opium, wheat, fruits, nuts, wool, mutton, sheepskins, lambskins



    INDUSTRIES

    US: (leading industrial power in the world); petroleum, steel, motor vehicles, aerospace, telecommunications, chemicals, electronics, food processing, consumer goods, lumber, mining

    Vietnam: food processing, garments, shoes, machine-building, mining, cement, chemical fertilizer, glass, tires, oil, coal, steel, paper

    Iraq: petroleum, chemicals, textiles, construction materials, food processing

    North Korea: military products; machine building, electric power, chemicals; mining (coal, iron ore, magnesite, graphite, copper, zinc, lead, and precious metals), metallurgy; textiles, food processing; tourism

    Philippines: electronics assembly, textiles, pharmaceuticals, chemicals, wood products, food processing, petroleum refining, fishing

    Afghanistan: small-scale production of textiles, soap, furniture, shoes, fertilizer, cement; handwoven carpets; natural gas, coal, copper



    OIL PRODUCTION (Barrels Per Day)

    US: 8.054 million (2001 est.)

    Vietnam: 356,700 (2001 est.)

    Iraq: 2.2 million, note - prewar production was 2.8 million (January 2004 est.)

    North Korea: 0 (2001 est.)

    Philippines: 8,460 (2001 est.)

    Afghanistan: 0 (2001 est.)



    OIL CONSUMPTION (Barrels Per Day, 2001 est.)

    US: 19.65 million

    Vietnam: 185,000

    Iraq: 460,000

    North Korea: 85,000

    Philippines: 343,000

    Afghanistan: 3,500



    EXPORTS - COMMODITIES

    US: capital goods, automobiles, industrial supplies and raw materials, consumer goods, agricultural products

    Vietnam: crude oil, marine products, rice, coffee, rubber, tea, garments, shoes

    Iraq: crude oil

    North Korea: minerals, metallurgical products, manufactures (including armaments); textiles and fishery products

    Philippines: electronic equipment, machinery and transport equipment, garments, coconut products, chemicals

    Afghanistan: opium, fruits and nuts, hand-woven carpets, wool, cotton, hides and pelts, precious and semi-precious gems



    IMPORTS - COMMODITIES

    US: crude oil and refined petroleum products, machinery, automobiles, consumer goods, industrial raw materials, food and beverages

    Vietnam: machinery and equipment, petroleum products, fertilizer, steel products, raw cotton, grain, cement, motorcycles

    Iraq: food, medicine, manufactures

    North Korea: petroleum, coking coal, machinery and equipment; textiles, grain

    Philippines: raw materials, machinery and equipment, fuels, chemicals

    Afghanistan: capital goods, food, textiles, petroleum products



    IMPORT PARTNERS

    US: Canada 17.4%, China 12.5%, Mexico 10.7%, Japan 9.3%, Germany 5.3% (2003)

    Vietnam: China 13.7%, Taiwan 11.4%, Japan 11.3%, South Korea 11%, Singapore 10.4%, US 5.7%, Thailand 5.4%, Hong Kong 4.2% (2003)

    Iraq: Turkey 18.1%, Jordan 13.4%, Vietnam 10.7%, US 6.9%, Germany 5%, UK 4.7% (2003)

    North Korea: China 39.7%, Thailand 14.6%, Japan 11.2%, Germany 7.6%, South Korea 6.2% (2002)

    Philippines: Japan 20.4%, US 19.8%, Singapore 6.8%, South Korea 6.4%, Taiwan 5%, China 4.8%, Hong Kong 4.3% (2003)

    Afghanistan: Pakistan 30.1%, South Korea 9.2%, Japan 7.6%, Germany 6.9%, Turkmenistan 5.4%, Kenya 4.6%, US 4.5%, Russia 4% (2003)



    EXTERNAL DEBT

    US: $1.4 trillion (2001 est.)

    Vietnam: $14.69 billion (2003)

    Iraq: $93.95 billion (2003 est.)

    North Korea: $12 billion (1996 est.)

    Philippines: $57.96 billion (2003)

    Afghanistan: $8 billion in bilateral debt, mostly to Russia; Afghanistan has $500 million in debt to Multilateral Development Banks (2004)





    TELEVISIONS (1997 est.)

    US: 219 million

    Vietnam: 3.57 million

    Iraq: 1.75 million

    North Korea: 1.2 million

    Philippines: 3.7 million

    Afghanistan: 100,000



    INTERNET USERS

    US: 159 million (2002)

    Vietnam: 3.5 million (2003)

    Iraq: 25,000 (2002)

    North Korea: NA

    Philippines: 3.5 million (2002)

    Afghanistan: 1,000 (2002)







    MILITARY MANPOWER AVAILABILITY (Males Age 15-49, 2004 est.)

    US: 73,597,731 [/b]

    Vietnam: 23,438,858

    Iraq: 6,547,762

    North Korea: 6,181,038

    Philippines: 22,435,982

    Afghanistan: 6,785,414



    MILITARY EXPENDITURES (Dollar Figures)

    US: $370.7 billion (FY04 est.) (March 2003)

    Vietnam: $650 million (FY98)

    Iraq: $1.3 billion (FY00)

    North Korea: $5,217.4 million (FY02)

    Philippines: $995 million (FY98)

    Afghanistan: $61 million (2003)




  • ArchaicArchaic 633 Posts
    and after completely failing as head of the Ministry of Industry[/b]-

    That is such a petty critique in that 1. Ernesto was not Cuban and 2. Ernesto was a soldier and not a politician.

  • Insulin1200Insulin1200 396 Posts

    A few of the many examples....

    viva la bambouche


  • motown67motown67 4,513 Posts
    and after completely failing as head of the Ministry of Industry[/b]-

    That is such a petty critique in that 1. Ernesto was not Cuban and 2. Ernesto was a soldier and not a politician.

    The context of the quote was that he helped lead a revolution and then decided to go and spread revolution in Bolivia rather than stay in Cuba.

    So

    1) You don't think the fact that he was completely failing in his job in post-revolutionary Cuba had anything to do with him leaving? He just helped lead a revolution, then gets a new position in the government, completely fails and then what's he going to do? Keep on screwing up? Choose another position? Sit back and do nothing? It would seem to be a motivation to me for him leaving for greener pastures and looking for something that better matched his skills.

    2) What the fuck does it matter whether he was Cuban or not? So you're saying because he was Argentinian he couldn't run the economy or something? He didn't understand the Cuban economy because he wasn't Cuban? What kind of retort is that: 1. Ernesto was not Cuban[/b]????

    3) True, he was a revolutionary, which helps explain why he failed as Minister of Industry.

  • motown67motown67 4,513 Posts
    The problem with critiquing people like Che is that revolutionaries and a lot of pop idols on the left get so mythologized that its taboo to say bad things sometimes, and not only that, they get covered with so many stories, sometimes the reality gets clouded.

    Example, Huey Newton of the Black Panthers. His first big trial as Panther leader was over an alleged shooting of an Oakland cop after he got pulled over. This led to the whole "Free Huey" movement and also the famous picture of him sitting in the bamboo chair. Well guess what, he really did shoot that cop. He also turned into a major druggie in prison and basically lost his fuckin mind afterwards which led to him doing such benign things as kicking out most of his friends from leadership positions, having his bodyguards strip Bobby Seale and whip him in Huey's Oakland apartment by Lake Merritt, pistol whip a guy, beat a prostitute, and host of other misdemeanors.

    My only point being is that these people were real people, they had good sides and bad ones. I think it's much better to realize the good with the bad and think about the faults in people sometimes, rather than hold them up as cultural icons that only shine.

  • GuzzoGuzzo 8,611 Posts
    I completely agree with you. However thats not the point I was trying to speak on with this post. Bambouche gave a beautiful and poetic answer that I thought said it all. (thnkas bam)

    Che's humanity is one thing his ideals and fight against capatalist ways is another. To see him turned into someone elses cash cow and to have his legend sold for profit goes against the ideals he is supposed to stand for.

    almost like selling condoms that are blessed by the pope

  • ArchaicArchaic 633 Posts
    and after completely failing as head of the Ministry of Industry[/b]-

    That is such a petty critique in that 1. Ernesto was not Cuban and 2. Ernesto was a soldier and not a politician.

    The context of the quote was that he helped lead a revolution and then decided to go and spread revolution in Bolivia rather than stay in Cuba.

    So

    1) You don't think the fact that he was completely failing in his job in post-revolutionary Cuba had anything to do with him leaving? He just helped lead a revolution, then gets a new position in the government, completely fails and then what's he going to do? Keep on screwing up? Choose another position? Sit back and do nothing? It would seem to be a motivation to me for him leaving for greener pastures and looking for something that better matched his skills.

    Sure, Che failed as a bureaucrat. The sky is also blue. Again, Ernesto was a soldier/guerilla-warfare-specialist/worldwide-revolutionary, not a pencil pusher. Yet you want to nitpick.


    2) What the fuck does it matter whether he was Cuban or not? So you're saying because he was Argentinian he couldn't run the economy or something? He didn't understand the Cuban economy because he wasn't Cuban? What kind of retort is that: 1. Ernesto was not Cuban[/b]????

    Why would we expect Che to remain in Cuba? He did his job. Him and like 11 other dudes in a shitty boat overthrew a government propped up by the mighty Yanks. That is enough for me not to nitpick.

  • ArchaicArchaic 633 Posts
    The problem with critiquing people like Che is that revolutionaries and a lot of pop idols on the left get so mythologized that its taboo to say bad things sometimes, and not only that, they get covered with so many stories, sometimes the reality gets clouded.



    So Che is now jocked by people other than himself for money. That's no reason to come down on Che himself. And noone's saying that he's beyond reproach. It's just that the dismissal of Che as "he's no saint" needs backing beyond "he failed as a politician within the Cuban government".



    Example, Huey Newton of the Black Panthers. His first big trial as Panther leader was over an alleged shooting of an Oakland cop after he got pulled over. This led to the whole "Free Huey" movement and also the famous picture of him sitting in the bamboo chair. Well guess what, he really did shoot that cop. He also turned into a major druggie in prison and basically lost his fuckin mind afterwards which led to him doing such benign things as kicking out most of his friends from leadership positions, having his bodyguards strip Bobby Seale and whip him in Huey's Oakland apartment by Lake Merritt, pistol whip a guy, beat a prostitute, and host of other misdemeanors.



    You just don't get it, do you? Huey shooting a cop to a Panther-minded person is an act of war and not a crime. Police brutality was/still-is such a problem for American blacks, that it's very possible that Huey was merely defending himself. But I suppose you just would have had him get beat AGAIN and hope that he could find justice through the court system. Yeah, right.



    And you ever thought that maybe Huey got mindfucked while he was in prison? Dude was sharp as hell before he goes into the belly of the beast...he comes out skitzo. You do the math.



    Also consider that the same thing happened to Eldridge Cleaver when he was in for rape...which means that he was a rat working against the Panthers from jump. If you ever took the time to read Huey's autobiography you'd know that already. Instead you just want to paint the guy as a loon.



    And again, I'm not saying that Huey is beyond reproach either. It's just have some respect already.



    My only point being is that these people were real people, they had good sides and bad ones. I think it's much better to realize the good with the bad and think about the faults in people sometimes, rather than hold them up as cultural icons that only shine.



    On that note, Gandhi participated in a war crime against African tribesmen while he was learning his own brand of segregation as a protege in South Africa. Try highlighting that instead of worrying about Che and Huey.

  • BamboucheBambouche 1,484 Posts
    On that note, Ghandi participated in a war crime against African tribesmen while he was learning his own brand of segregation as a protege in South Africa. Try highlighting that instead of worrying about Che and Huey.


    ???Where the choice is set between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. I praise and extol the serene courage of dying without killing. Yet I desire that those who have not this courage should rather cultivate the art of killing and being killed, then basely avoid the danger. This is because he who runs away commits mental violence; he has not the courage of facing death by killing. I would a thousand times prefer violence than the emasculation of a whole race. I prefer to use arms in defence of honor rather than remain the vile witness of dishonor.???
    --Mahatma Gandhi

  • d_wordd_word 666 Posts
    To see him turned into someone elses cash cow and to have his legend sold for profit goes against the ideals he is supposed to stand for.

    almost like selling condoms that are blessed by the pope


    $15 t-shirts gettin' sold to awkward teenagers in head shops is a sell-out? Naw. The t-shirts are insignificant compared to the real histories of revolution and war in Cuba, Bolivia, Angola. Just because 't-shirts' are our main exposure to him says more about us than it does him.

  • motown67motown67 4,513 Posts
    The problem with critiquing people like Che is that revolutionaries and a lot of pop idols on the left get so mythologized that its taboo to say bad things sometimes, and not only that, they get covered with so many stories, sometimes the reality gets clouded.

    So Che is now jocked by people other than himself for money. That's no reason to come down on Che himself. And noone's saying that he's beyond reproach. It's just that the dismissal of Che as "he's no saint" needs backing beyond "he failed as a politician within the Cuban government".

    CONTEXT[/b] man, CONTEXT.

    Look at what my comment was about. Was it ANYTHING to do with the selling of the man's image???

    NO[/b] it was in response to why he left Cuba.

  • rootlesscosmorootlesscosmo 12,848 Posts


    RELIGIONS
    US: Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)
    Philippines: Roman Catholic 83%, Protestant 9%, Muslim 5%, Buddhist and other 3%



    Please to explain the siginificance here.

  • BamboucheBambouche 1,484 Posts


    RELIGIONS
    US: Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)
    Philippines: Roman Catholic 83%, Protestant 9%, Muslim 5%, Buddhist and other 3%



    Please to explain the siginificance here.


    Significance is in all things.
    Significant study of comparative factors between countries. That's the point of the CIA Factbook.
    Significantly killed many Filipinos with our "liberation," including the dead Filipino children pictured above. A snapshot of "trophies" was how the picture was labelled in the archives. Roman Catholic 83%, Protestant 9%, Muslim 5%, Buddhist and other 3% = 100% dead.


  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    During the '63 missile crisis, Che tried to argue for a first strike against the US. 50 million dead, his country flattened. He was keeping it real all right.



    I remember is high school someone was wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt, and someone asked "Isn't that the singer for Rage Against the Machine?"
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