Che And The Youth
Guzzo
8,611 Posts
really though I never understood how he became such an Icon with memrobilia available to buy at amny stores.Fidel Castro's homei wasn't exactly a saint and what makes things even more head scratching is that he's become such a capitalist moneymaker.Anybody got some insight into this?
Comments
youre right, but I just don't get it turning Che into a bestseller kinda kills the ideology he stood for
absorbing, amiable, appealing, bewitching, charismatic, choice, delectable, delicate, delightful, desirable, electrifying, elegant, enamoring, engaging, engrossing, enthralling, entrancing, eye-catching, fascinating, fetching, glamorous, graceful, infatuating, inviting, irresistible, likeable, lovable, lovely, magnetizing, nice, pleasant, pleasing, provocative, rapturous, ravishing, seducing, seductive, sweet, tantalizing, tempting, titillating, winsome, able, able-bodied, active, athletic, beefy, big, brawny, bulk, burly, capable, durable, enduring, energetic, firm, fixed, forceful, forcible, hale, hardy, healthy, hearty, heavy, heavy-duty, husky, lusty, manly, mighty, muscular, potent, powerful, reinforced, robust, rugged, secure, sinewy, solid, sound, stable, stalwart, stark, staunch, steady, stout, strapping, sturdy, substantial, tenacious, tough, unyielding, vigorous, virile, well-built, well-founded, well-made.
They were shook of him!
"They who sing victory over his death are mistaken. They are mistaken who believe that his death is the defeat of his ideas, the defeat of his tactics, the defeat of his guerrilla concepts ... If we want to know how we want our children to be we should say, with all our revolutionary mind and heart: We want them to be like Che."
Fidel Castro 1967
The reason that he was (is) so admired is that, even after he and Fidel and the rest of the merry old bunch won the revolution, he didn't stick around to enjoy the fruits of his labour - instead he trucked off to Bolivia to try and start a revolutionary movement over there. Then the photo became an icon, and then it became fashion.
It's rumored, that while he was cornered in Bolivia, just before the US killed him, Che said:
???Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man.???
I've read most of his diaries and writings of guerrilla warfare, and profiteering corporate wannabe-detournement ad campaigns are trying to turn his symbol in sales. It's fairly unclever, but what do you expect? They make shoes, not changes.
There's much that is not pretty in Guevara's work. Executing. Jungle fighting. Torture. Putting down his medical supplies to pick up ammunition. Doctor to Revolutionary. Dr Ernesto Rafael Guevara de la Sern to a Tshirt.
If the US was so anti-socialist, it'd be interesting to see what came of his ideals. Reminiscent of the Haymarket martyrs, however, he was bound to end in Bolivia. Still, I pay less attention to his face on a shirt and more attention to what he wrote... The moderation of extremist that drove him to turn his life into a movement.
Sloganeering.
???Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man.???[/b]
???Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man.???[/b]
???Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man.???[/b]
???Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man.???[/b]
???Shoot, coward. You are only going to kill a man.???[/b]
Plaese to explain.
Yes, it's true that many of his policies were short-sighted and failed, but no-one was going to kick him out - he could've lived a comfortable life as a bureaucrat in post-revolutionary cuba if he'd have wanted.
I didn't really want to be the one, but since Archaic stepped up, let me just say while Ernesto might not have been, in Guzzo's words, "exactly a saint," compared to US foreign policy he is a god. In the last 3 weeks I've prolly spent 200 hours reading and reviewing archival documents of these jingocidal united states, and we kill without cause, without provocation, and without conscious.
A few of the many examples.
Uncle Sam - "not exactly a saint."[/b]
Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski[/b]
US NSA Advisor to Carter. Look this dude up. Especially his work in forming the CIA-funded mujahedeen, as well as his work with chemical warfare. A TRUE US LEADER!
Emilio Aguinaldo y Famy, Filipino general, politician, and independence leader. Instrumental in the Philippine Revolution against Spain as well as the Philippine-American War (in opposition to American occupation). Aguinaldo is recognized as the Philippines first president, though the US doesn't recognize him. Aguinaldo led resistance to the American occupation and was captured in Palanan, Isabela on March 23, 1901 by US General Frederick Funston, who had gained access to Aguinaldo's camp by pretending to surrender to the Filipinos. For his ???bravery,??? Funston was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor and was soon after promoted to the rank of Brigadier General.
I've gone through the current issue of the CIA Factbook, and compared the statistics of the US for a few of the countries we've
INVADEDLIBERATED. I find it interesting. (Oh, and I found a cache of war photos as well.)AREA (square km)
US: 9,631,418 sq km (9,161,923 land, 469,495 water) - about half the size of Russia; about three-tenths the size of Africa; slightly larger than Brazil, and a half times the size of Western Europe
Vietnam: 329,560 (325,360 land 4,200 water) - slightly larger than New Mexico
Iraq: 437,072 (432,162 land, 4,910 water) - slightly more than twice the size of Idaho
North Korea: 120,540 (120,410 land, 130 water) - slightly smaller than Mississippi
Philippines: 300,000 (298,170 land, 1,830 water) - slightly larger than Arizona
Afghanistan: 647,500 (647,500 land, 0 water) - slightly smaller than Texas
POPULATION (July 2004 est.)
US: 293,027,571
Vietnam: 82,689,518
Iraq: 25,374,691
North Korea: 22,697,553
Philippines: 86,241,697
Afghanistan: 28,513,677
NATURAL RESOURCES
US: coal, copper, lead, molybdenum, phosphates, uranium, bauxite, gold, iron, mercury, nickel, potash, silver, tungsten, zinc, petroleum, natural gas, timber
Vietnam: phosphates, coal, manganese, bauxite, chromate, offshore oil and gas deposits, forests, hydropower
Iraq: petroleum, natural gas, [/b]phosphates, sulfur
North Korea: coal, lead, tungsten, zinc, graphite, magnesite, iron ore, copper, gold, pyrites, salt, fluorspar, hydropower
Philippines: timber, petroleum, nickel, cobalt, silver, gold, salt, copper
Afghanistan: natural gas, petroleum, coal, copper, chromite, talc, barites, sulfur, lead, zinc, iron ore, salt, precious and semiprecious stones
ETHNIC GROUPS
US: white 77.1%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%, Amerindian and Alaska native 1.5%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.3%, other 4%
Vietnam: Vietnamese 85%-90%, Chinese, Hmong, Thai, Khmer, Cham, mountain groups
Iraq: Arab 75%-80%, Kurdish 15%-20%, Turkoman, Assyrian or other 5%
North Korea: racially homogeneous; there is a small Chinese community and a few ethnic Japanese
Philippines: Christian Malay 91.5%, Muslim Malay 4%, Chinese 1.5%, other 3%
Afghanistan: Pashtun 42%, Tajik 27%, Hazara 9%, Uzbek 9%, Aimak 4%, Turkmen 3%, Baloch 2%, other 4%
RELIGIONS
US: Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)
Vietnam: Buddhist, Hoa Hao, Cao Dai, Christian (predominantly Roman Catholic, some Protestant), indigenous beliefs, Muslim
Iraq: Muslim 97% (Shi'a 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%), Christian or other 3%
North Korea: traditionally Buddhist and Confucianist, some Christian and syncretic Chondogyo (Religion of the Heavenly Way)
Philippines: Roman Catholic 83%, Protestant 9%, Muslim 5%, Buddhist and other 3%
Afghanistan: Sunni Muslim 80%, Shi'a Muslim 19%, other 1%
PEOPLE LIVING WITH HIV/AIDS (2003 est.)
US: 950,000
Vietnam: 220,000
Iraq: less than 500
North Korea: NA
Philippines: 9,000
Afghanistan: NA
GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT ((GDP) Purchasing Power Parity, 2003 est.)
US: $10.99 trillion
Vietnam: $203.7 billion
Iraq: $37.92 billion
North Korea: $29.58 billion
Philippines: $390.7 billion
Afghanistan: $20 billion
POPULATION BELOW POVERTY LINE
US: 12% (2003 est.)
Vietnam: 37% (1998 est.)
Iraq: NA
North Korea: NA
Philippines: 40% (2001 est.)
Afghanistan: 23% (2002)
LABOR FORCE
US: 147.4 million (includes unemployed) (2003)
Vietnam: 45.74 million (2003 est.)
Iraq: 7.8 million (2004 est.)
North Korea: 9.6 million
Philippines: 34.56 million (2003)
Afghanistan: 11.8 million (2001 est.)
LABOR FORCE BY OCCUPATION
US: managerial, professional, and technical 34.9%, sales and office 25.5%, manufacturing, extraction, transportation, and crafts 22.7%, other services 16.3%, farming, forestry, and fishing 0.7%
Vietnam: agriculture 63%, industry and services 37% (2000 est.)
Iraq: agriculture NA, industry NA, services NA
North Korea: agricultural 36%, nonagricultural 64%
Philippines: agriculture 45%, industry 15%, services 40% (2003 est.)
Afghanistan: agriculture 80%, industry 10%, services 10% (1990 est.)
UNEMPLOYMENT RATE
US: 6%
Vietnam: 6.1% (2003 est.)
Iraq: NA (2003 est.)
North Korea: NA (2003)
Philippines: 11.4% (2003)
Afghanistan: NA (2003)
AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS
US: wheat, corn, other grains, fruits, vegetables, cotton; beef, pork, poultry, dairy products; forest products; fish
Vietnam: paddy rice, corn, potatoes, rubber, soybeans, coffee, tea, bananas, sugar; poultry, pigs, fish
Iraq: wheat, barley, rice, vegetables, dates, cotton; cattle, sheep
North Korea: rice, corn, potatoes, soybeans, pulses; cattle, pigs, pork, eggs
Philippines: rice, coconuts, corn, sugarcane, bananas, pineapples, mangoes, pork, eggs, beef, fish
Afghanistan: opium, wheat, fruits, nuts, wool, mutton, sheepskins, lambskins
INDUSTRIES
US: (leading industrial power in the world); petroleum, steel, motor vehicles, aerospace, telecommunications, chemicals, electronics, food processing, consumer goods, lumber, mining
Vietnam: food processing, garments, shoes, machine-building, mining, cement, chemical fertilizer, glass, tires, oil, coal, steel, paper
Iraq: petroleum, chemicals, textiles, construction materials, food processing
North Korea: military products; machine building, electric power, chemicals; mining (coal, iron ore, magnesite, graphite, copper, zinc, lead, and precious metals), metallurgy; textiles, food processing; tourism
Philippines: electronics assembly, textiles, pharmaceuticals, chemicals, wood products, food processing, petroleum refining, fishing
Afghanistan: small-scale production of textiles, soap, furniture, shoes, fertilizer, cement; handwoven carpets; natural gas, coal, copper
OIL PRODUCTION (Barrels Per Day)
US: 8.054 million (2001 est.)
Vietnam: 356,700 (2001 est.)
Iraq: 2.2 million, note - prewar production was 2.8 million (January 2004 est.)
North Korea: 0 (2001 est.)
Philippines: 8,460 (2001 est.)
Afghanistan: 0 (2001 est.)
OIL CONSUMPTION (Barrels Per Day, 2001 est.)
US: 19.65 million
Vietnam: 185,000
Iraq: 460,000
North Korea: 85,000
Philippines: 343,000
Afghanistan: 3,500
EXPORTS - COMMODITIES
US: capital goods, automobiles, industrial supplies and raw materials, consumer goods, agricultural products
Vietnam: crude oil, marine products, rice, coffee, rubber, tea, garments, shoes
Iraq: crude oil
North Korea: minerals, metallurgical products, manufactures (including armaments); textiles and fishery products
Philippines: electronic equipment, machinery and transport equipment, garments, coconut products, chemicals
Afghanistan: opium, fruits and nuts, hand-woven carpets, wool, cotton, hides and pelts, precious and semi-precious gems
IMPORTS - COMMODITIES
US: crude oil and refined petroleum products, machinery, automobiles, consumer goods, industrial raw materials, food and beverages
Vietnam: machinery and equipment, petroleum products, fertilizer, steel products, raw cotton, grain, cement, motorcycles
Iraq: food, medicine, manufactures
North Korea: petroleum, coking coal, machinery and equipment; textiles, grain
Philippines: raw materials, machinery and equipment, fuels, chemicals
Afghanistan: capital goods, food, textiles, petroleum products
IMPORT PARTNERS
US: Canada 17.4%, China 12.5%, Mexico 10.7%, Japan 9.3%, Germany 5.3% (2003)
Vietnam: China 13.7%, Taiwan 11.4%, Japan 11.3%, South Korea 11%, Singapore 10.4%, US 5.7%, Thailand 5.4%, Hong Kong 4.2% (2003)
Iraq: Turkey 18.1%, Jordan 13.4%, Vietnam 10.7%, US 6.9%, Germany 5%, UK 4.7% (2003)
North Korea: China 39.7%, Thailand 14.6%, Japan 11.2%, Germany 7.6%, South Korea 6.2% (2002)
Philippines: Japan 20.4%, US 19.8%, Singapore 6.8%, South Korea 6.4%, Taiwan 5%, China 4.8%, Hong Kong 4.3% (2003)
Afghanistan: Pakistan 30.1%, South Korea 9.2%, Japan 7.6%, Germany 6.9%, Turkmenistan 5.4%, Kenya 4.6%, US 4.5%, Russia 4% (2003)
EXTERNAL DEBT
US: $1.4 trillion (2001 est.)
Vietnam: $14.69 billion (2003)
Iraq: $93.95 billion (2003 est.)
North Korea: $12 billion (1996 est.)
Philippines: $57.96 billion (2003)
Afghanistan: $8 billion in bilateral debt, mostly to Russia; Afghanistan has $500 million in debt to Multilateral Development Banks (2004)
TELEVISIONS (1997 est.)
US: 219 million
Vietnam: 3.57 million
Iraq: 1.75 million
North Korea: 1.2 million
Philippines: 3.7 million
Afghanistan: 100,000
INTERNET USERS
US: 159 million (2002)
Vietnam: 3.5 million (2003)
Iraq: 25,000 (2002)
North Korea: NA
Philippines: 3.5 million (2002)
Afghanistan: 1,000 (2002)
MILITARY MANPOWER AVAILABILITY (Males Age 15-49, 2004 est.)
US: 73,597,731 [/b]
Vietnam: 23,438,858
Iraq: 6,547,762
North Korea: 6,181,038
Philippines: 22,435,982
Afghanistan: 6,785,414
MILITARY EXPENDITURES (Dollar Figures)
US: $370.7 billion (FY04 est.) (March 2003)
Vietnam: $650 million (FY98)
Iraq: $1.3 billion (FY00)
North Korea: $5,217.4 million (FY02)
Philippines: $995 million (FY98)
Afghanistan: $61 million (2003)
That is such a petty critique in that 1. Ernesto was not Cuban and 2. Ernesto was a soldier and not a politician.
viva la bambouche
The context of the quote was that he helped lead a revolution and then decided to go and spread revolution in Bolivia rather than stay in Cuba.
So
1) You don't think the fact that he was completely failing in his job in post-revolutionary Cuba had anything to do with him leaving? He just helped lead a revolution, then gets a new position in the government, completely fails and then what's he going to do? Keep on screwing up? Choose another position? Sit back and do nothing? It would seem to be a motivation to me for him leaving for greener pastures and looking for something that better matched his skills.
2) What the fuck does it matter whether he was Cuban or not? So you're saying because he was Argentinian he couldn't run the economy or something? He didn't understand the Cuban economy because he wasn't Cuban? What kind of retort is that: 1. Ernesto was not Cuban[/b]????
3) True, he was a revolutionary, which helps explain why he failed as Minister of Industry.
Example, Huey Newton of the Black Panthers. His first big trial as Panther leader was over an alleged shooting of an Oakland cop after he got pulled over. This led to the whole "Free Huey" movement and also the famous picture of him sitting in the bamboo chair. Well guess what, he really did shoot that cop. He also turned into a major druggie in prison and basically lost his fuckin mind afterwards which led to him doing such benign things as kicking out most of his friends from leadership positions, having his bodyguards strip Bobby Seale and whip him in Huey's Oakland apartment by Lake Merritt, pistol whip a guy, beat a prostitute, and host of other misdemeanors.
My only point being is that these people were real people, they had good sides and bad ones. I think it's much better to realize the good with the bad and think about the faults in people sometimes, rather than hold them up as cultural icons that only shine.
Che's humanity is one thing his ideals and fight against capatalist ways is another. To see him turned into someone elses cash cow and to have his legend sold for profit goes against the ideals he is supposed to stand for.
almost like selling condoms that are blessed by the pope
Sure, Che failed as a bureaucrat. The sky is also blue. Again, Ernesto was a soldier/guerilla-warfare-specialist/worldwide-revolutionary, not a pencil pusher. Yet you want to nitpick.
Why would we expect Che to remain in Cuba? He did his job. Him and like 11 other dudes in a shitty boat overthrew a government propped up by the mighty Yanks. That is enough for me not to nitpick.
So Che is now jocked by people other than himself for money. That's no reason to come down on Che himself. And noone's saying that he's beyond reproach. It's just that the dismissal of Che as "he's no saint" needs backing beyond "he failed as a politician within the Cuban government".
You just don't get it, do you? Huey shooting a cop to a Panther-minded person is an act of war and not a crime. Police brutality was/still-is such a problem for American blacks, that it's very possible that Huey was merely defending himself. But I suppose you just would have had him get beat AGAIN and hope that he could find justice through the court system. Yeah, right.
And you ever thought that maybe Huey got mindfucked while he was in prison? Dude was sharp as hell before he goes into the belly of the beast...he comes out skitzo. You do the math.
Also consider that the same thing happened to Eldridge Cleaver when he was in for rape...which means that he was a rat working against the Panthers from jump. If you ever took the time to read Huey's autobiography you'd know that already. Instead you just want to paint the guy as a loon.
And again, I'm not saying that Huey is beyond reproach either. It's just have some respect already.
On that note, Gandhi participated in a war crime against African tribesmen while he was learning his own brand of segregation as a protege in South Africa. Try highlighting that instead of worrying about Che and Huey.
???Where the choice is set between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. I praise and extol the serene courage of dying without killing. Yet I desire that those who have not this courage should rather cultivate the art of killing and being killed, then basely avoid the danger. This is because he who runs away commits mental violence; he has not the courage of facing death by killing. I would a thousand times prefer violence than the emasculation of a whole race. I prefer to use arms in defence of honor rather than remain the vile witness of dishonor.???
--Mahatma Gandhi
$15 t-shirts gettin' sold to awkward teenagers in head shops is a sell-out? Naw. The t-shirts are insignificant compared to the real histories of revolution and war in Cuba, Bolivia, Angola. Just because 't-shirts' are our main exposure to him says more about us than it does him.
CONTEXT[/b] man, CONTEXT.
Look at what my comment was about. Was it ANYTHING to do with the selling of the man's image???
NO[/b] it was in response to why he left Cuba.
Please to explain the siginificance here.
Significance is in all things.
Significant study of comparative factors between countries. That's the point of the CIA Factbook.
Significantly killed many Filipinos with our "liberation," including the dead Filipino children pictured above. A snapshot of "trophies" was how the picture was labelled in the archives. Roman Catholic 83%, Protestant 9%, Muslim 5%, Buddhist and other 3% = 100% dead.
I remember is high school someone was wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt, and someone asked "Isn't that the singer for Rage Against the Machine?"