Purely White Music

Rockadelic

When I refer to "White Music" I'm not doing so from a racial angle as much as I am a historical one. Most of today's popular genre's of music have been influenced by African/African-American roots. Rock & Roll evolved out of Blues/R&B/CountryAuthentic American Country and Folk was heavily influenced by southern bluesBlues be blackModern Jazz is a result of black influence on earlier roots.Soul, Funk, Rap, Hip-Hop are based purely in black music.BUT......there are some genre's of music that were NEVER touched by anything but white influences.Opera, while it can be performed by black artists like Leontyne Price is purely white.Medeival/UK Folk Music is whiter than LiberaceEuropean Classical music is whitey white whiteSymphonic Progressive Music, which takes most of it's influence from Classical, is as white as it gets.To my ears, these genre's that are purely white, lack soul or any kind of "groove" and is boring to me as a result.So don't freak when I say something sounds "white" as I am simply saying it's lacking any kind of "groove".If my perception of these genre's is wrong please re-educate me.Rich

Dubious

what about white funk?

Rockadelic

Seriously...is what I wrote that confusing??

street_muzik

Some classical music has mega feeling (soul?). Some mornings I kick the classical up to ear damaging decibels. Quite a change from my normal bass based music but damn, what a wall of noise and what a great way to invigorate the day.

I'm not sure of the constructive nature of this topic. Someone help me here. I wouldn't be surprised if some random dulcimer player had some serious swing.

Dubious

these also have in common origins in pre 20th century when people didnt get around so much

Dubious

what about this:



any breaks?

canonical

Seriously...is what I wrote that confusing??

Hehe, no, it makes sense.

I think in terms of traditional classical music, the reason it lacks a lot of soul (sometimes) is because a lot of it is created from a very academic perspective. I have met many music majors and they always stress the "theoretical" aspect of the music. While I'm fine with that, being a mathematician I actually kind of like that aspect, it does lead me to believe that this large in part a reason why it lacks that soul. The "theory" has acted as a buffer between the music and personal expression.

Whereas a lot of blues was created straight from the heart, and a lot of times out of struggle.

Don't know what to say about those other genres.

SoulOnIce

I know Opera is at the top of just about everyone's "I like every kind of music but: " lists, but I personally find much to appreciate in it. It is a music that can convey great emotion, as the performers are basically "actors" as well, and the best are able to express great emotional depth and meaning with their voices.

Having said that, I don't study it closely, check for raers, or really listen to much more than my cheesey "20 Greatest Arias" CD and "Best Of Caruso" dollarbincommon LP's once in a while - but the times I have seen it live, or with the occasional LP I have picked up, I have been very impressed, and sometimes just as moved as I am by deep soul or blues, despite the abscence of a "groove."

batmon

European Classical music is whitey white white

I've heard theories/rumours that Beethoven was listening to African music then transcribing it into Classical forms.

canonical

European Classical music is whitey white white

I've heard theories/rumours that Beethoven was listening to African music then transcribing it into Classical forms.

This only makes sense if Beethoven had access to some African slaves with tribal drums on hand to listen to. And/or he frequented trips to Africa. Remember, in his time there was a severe lack of recorded music. Plus dude went deaf.

I hope that comment wasn't sarcastic, else me =

batmon

European Classical music is whitey white white

I've heard theories/rumours that Beethoven was listening to African music then transcribing it into Classical forms.

This only makes sense if Beethoven had access to some African slaves with tribal drums on hand to listen to. And/or he frequented trips to Africa. Remember, in his time there was a severe lack of recorded music. Plus dude went deaf.

I hope that comment wasn't sarcastic, else me =

Colonialism iz a muthafucka.

p_gunn

Hehe, no, it makes sense.

I think in terms of traditional classical music, the reason it lacks a lot of soul (sometimes) is because a lot of it is created from a very academic perspective. I have met many music majors and they always stress the "theoretical" aspect of the music. While I'm fine with that, being a mathematician I actually kind of like that aspect, it does lead me to believe that this large in part a reason why it lacks that soul. The "theory" has acted as a buffer between the music and personal expression.

Whereas a lot of blues was created straight from the heart, and a lot of times out of struggle.

Don't know what to say about those other genres.

does that make jazz lacking in soul? cause there's a lot of theory, scales, etc. in jazz, in it's chord progessions AND solos... read miles davis' autobiograpgy. dude knew his music theory and many works like Bitch's Brew were hevaily based on theory. shit like sketches of spain was orchestrated by bill evans down to every last note. the elevation of the noble savage composing "soulful" blues songs is cliched to the max...

anyone who says that they absolutely dislike a form of music accross the board with NO EXCEPTIONS is making an ass of themselves. it reminds me in high school i'd make people mix tapes and ask what they'd like on them and they'd say "everything but country", so of course i'd put johnny cash on there. then people would say "oh, i hate country music EXCEPT for johnny cash." 2 years later that became "except for johnny cash, hank williams, waylon jennings, merle haggard, george jones, and willie nelson."

same thing for classical. shit like Bartok (string quartets are my fav), Dvorak (new world symphony), Mussoursky (pictures at an exhibition, night on bald mountain), Stravinsky (rites of spring), Benjamin Britain, Holtz (the planets), Kodaly, has just as much passion, anger, fury, and emotion as any delta blues...

as for opera, i personally like Wagner, Mozart, Puccini (madame butterfly!), and honestly don't know much else... the idea of a pure white or black music is outdated in the 21st century and best left to the ethnomusicologists.

LaserWolf

European Classical music is whitey white white

I've heard theories/rumours that Beethoven was listening to African music then transcribing it into Classical forms.

This only makes sense if Beethoven had access to some African slaves with tribal drums on hand to listen to. And/or he frequented trips to Africa. Remember, in his time there was a severe lack of recorded music. Plus dude went deaf.

I hope that comment wasn't sarcastic, else me =

I'm out of my league here so correct me if I am wrong. I think there was plenty of trade between Africa and Europe in Beethovens time. Europeans like to think their culture is pure and touched by outside influences. I'm betting that while ole Ludwig had his hearing it is not far fetched that he met Africans in Europe. While hearing them with Tribal drums may have been exciting to think about, Africans also were capable of singing melodys. There is a rich tradition of African melodic instruments, including harps (kora) banjos (rebop) marimbas, guitars (oud) and violins.

Some people belive that Beethoven ripped off African music and others belive that Beethoven was African. I think both are far fetched, but if he did hear African music it no doubt was an influence.

As for White music lacking soul, please to listen to Nessa Dorma. Or Beethovens 9th.

p_gunn

European Classical music is whitey white white

I've heard theories/rumours that Beethoven was listening to African music then transcribing it into Classical forms.

This only makes sense if Beethoven had access to some African slaves with tribal drums on hand to listen to. And/or he frequented trips to Africa. Remember, in his time there was a severe lack of recorded music. Plus dude went deaf.

I hope that comment wasn't sarcastic, else me =

I'm out of my league here so correct me if I am wrong. I think there was plenty of trade between Africa and Europe in Beethovens time. Europeans like to think their culture is pure and touched by outside influences. I'm betting that while ole Ludwig had his hearing it is not far fetched that he met Africans in Europe. While hearing them with Tribal drums may have been exciting to think about, Africans also were capable of singing melodys. There is a rich tradition of African melodic instruments, including harps (kora) banjos (rebop) marimbas, guitars (oud) and violins.

Some people belive that Beethoven ripped off African music and others belive that Beethoven was African. I think both are far fetched, but if he did hear African music it no doubt was an influence.

As for White music lacking soul, please to listen to Nessa Dorma. Or Beethovens 9th.

this is so stupid. i heard beethoven took all his music from eskimos. or chinese. or native americas. or aborigines. or samoans. or aztecs. or martians.

people need to chill and stop talking about shit they don't know anything about.

alieNDN

there is classical music that is just too violent musically for me, makes punk sound like nursery tunes. anyhow since there are some people that know of a thing or two about classic music in here, does anyone know about some violinist back in the day that performed a piece that had people rioting outside because they said it was the music of someone one demonically possessed? i dont know if he was using that tritone sheit or something, but i remember hearing about that and i'd be interested to give it a listen.

Rockadelic

As for White music lacking soul, please to listen to Nessa Dorma. Or Beethovens 9th.

Either I am defining the word "soul" wrong or you and I define it differently.

Most classical music sounds pompous to me....academic and mathimatical

The reason I started this thread to begin with was that after referring to something as "white" in an earlier post I got an email from a member that basically accused me of being racist.

I try to back up what I say so I thought I'd explain where I was coming from to the whole group.

I understand that people don't like putting "labels" on things in our politically correct times. But if it's accurate, why not??

Rich

canonical

Colonialism iz a muthafucka.

This is true. I stand corrected. I just didn't think Beethovan was the type of dude to have slaves and hanging around, I never pictued him as a member of the aristocracy.

Jonny_Paycheck

after referring to something as "white" in an earlier post I got an email from a member that basically accused me of being racist.

Welcome to soulstrut! Everyone gets harassed by Guzzo

DJBombjack

does anyone know about some violinist back in the day that performed a piece that had people rioting outside because they said it was the music of someone one demonically possessed?

I think that was Charlie Daniels and his friend Johnny, something to do with a duel between Johnny and the Devil. Happened in Georgia apparently.

SexyBNyce

there is classical music that is just too violent musically for me, makes punk sound like nursery tunes. anyhow since there are some people that know of a thing or two about classic music in here, does anyone know about some violinist back in the day that performed a piece that had people rioting outside because they said it was the music of someone one demonically possessed? i dont know if he was using that tritone sheit or something, but i remember hearing about that and i'd be interested to give it a listen.

Stavinski's THE RITE OF SPRING caused riots in Paris when it premiered. Powerful stuff.

SoulOnIce

does anyone know about some violinist back in the day that performed a piece that had people rioting outside because they said it was the music of someone one demonically possessed?

Sounds like a bastardized telling of the debut of the Stravinsky/Nijinsky Rites of Spring premiere in Paris, 1913.



Or maybe that stuff just used to go on all the time - it wouldn't surprise me.



edit: I am a slooow typist.

alieNDN

much thanks dudes!

LaserWolf

As for White music lacking soul, please to listen to Nessa Dorma. Or Beethovens 9th.

Either I am defining the word "soul" wrong or you and I define it differently.

Most classical music sounds pompous to me....academic and mathimatical

The reason I started this thread to begin with was that after referring to something as "white" in an earlier post I got an email from a member that basically accused me of being racist.

I try to back up what I say so I thought I'd explain where I was coming from to the whole group.

I understand that people don't like putting "labels" on things in our politically correct times. But if it's accurate, why not??

Rich

You don't need to apoligize for saying "white music". Nor do you need to define soul as I do.

You would be wise to keep your ears open and listen to some white music. There is some good stuff there.

Dan

resk

music that can display emotion does not equal soulful music. Of course these is just completely opinionated and subjective.

ive have heard classical music that displays a huge deal of emotion in it, but i would not say it is soulful. And just because something is based on theory doesnt exempt it from having soul.

LaserWolf

music that can display emotion does not equal soulful music. Of course these is just completely opinionated and subjective.

ive have heard classical music that displays a huge deal of emotion in it, but i would not say it is soulful. And just because something is based on theory doesnt exempt it from having soul.

Good point!

Looking at it the way you put it I don't think any music is soulful. Only performances are soulful. Sweetwaters version of Compared To What is not soulful, but the Harris/McCann version is soulful.

Thus I would recommend listening to the version of Beethoven's 9th Performed by St.Petersburg Kirov Orchestra / London Symphony Orchestra / Paris Orchestra with New York Philharmonic, June Anderson, Dresden Staatskapelle, Klaus Konig, Jan-Hendrik Rootering, Berlin Radio Symphony Chorus, Sarah Walker
Conducted by Leonard Bernstein

That ^ is one performence with combined orchestras and soloists that was performed in Berlin while the Berlin Wall was being torn down. A very soulful performance.

I would also recommend searching out soulful soloist like Yo Yo Ma and Yahudi Menhuian to here soulful performances of White music.

Try Aretha Franklins performance of Nessa Dorma to hear some soulful opera.

Personally, I rarely listen to classical.

Dan

Guzzo

after referring to something as "white" in an earlier post I got an email from a member that basically accused me of being racist.

Welcome to soulstrut! Everyone gets harassed by Guzzo heckled by Jonny Paycheck

wow, me being the sensitive one abour race? thats like calling faux rills white

Junior

There's tons of UK folk music that has soul if what you're equating soul to is the ability to convey passion and feeling. Classic example would be John Martyn's Walk To The Water off his 1971 album Bless The Weather.

paulnice

Either I am defining the word "soul" wrong or you and I define it differently.



Most classical music sounds pompous to me....academic and mathimatical



The reason I started this thread to begin with was that after referring to something as "white" in an earlier post I got an email from a member that basically accused me of being racist.



I try to back up what I say so I thought I'd explain where I was coming from to the whole group.



I understand that people don't like putting "labels" on things in our politically correct times. But if it's accurate, why not??



Rich

Well to me, that suggests that possibly you're listening with biased ears?

I mean, when I hear Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony to name but one piece, I most definitely feel that shit deep, deep, deep in my soul.

There is no doubt about that. It effects me in a way that is purely beyond the physical.

(Watching "Soylent Green" 100 times over the years probably didn't help)

No, it doesn't make me bop my fucking head like I was listening to "You're a Customer" by EPMD, but then again it's not supposed to either.

Perhaps your definition of "soul" is different, but as far as I'm concerned, good music is something that you feel deep inside yourself regardless - for lack of a less corny way to put it.

And in that regard, all good music is potentially soulful.



Perhaps you mean "funky"?

Flomotion

As for White music lacking soul, please to listen to Nessa Dorma. Or Beethovens 9th.

Either I am defining the word "soul" wrong or you and I define it differently.



Most classical music sounds pompous to me....academic and mathimatical



The reason I started this thread to begin with was that after referring to something as "white" in an earlier post I got an email from a member that basically accused me of being racist.



I try to back up what I say so I thought I'd explain where I was coming from to the whole group.



I understand that people don't like putting "labels" on things in our politically correct times. But if it's accurate, why not??



Rich

I think that what you are saying is that you neither really like or get classical music. Ignorance is fine but saying 800 years worth of music is boring, academic, pompous or lacking in soul shows your perception and lack of knowledge rather than an inherent problem with the music. White music has no soul is what you're more or less saying. I think you are confusing soul with breaks.



If you want to find out about classical music, put your preconceptions and prejudices away and take a little time now and again to listen and try to understand that stuff. You don't have to like it, of course, but it can't hurt you and it may help you appreciate and discover music you never cared or knew about before in other genres.



There is very little music that is wholly original - it's all evolved from somewhere or been influenced by something else. To paraphrase Camus, no genre is an island. Music didn't start with the Meters, despite what some Strutters would have us believe. I think you can take the white/black soul thing out of the equation as that theory is purely down to your musical tastes.



Oh and blues was as much from European folk (in turn influenced by classical music of the day) as it was from African song. Think of all those frenchies down there in the bayou. Where did they brin g their music from and where did it go from there?

Phill_Most

I've heard theories/rumours that Beethoven was[/b] African

(BTW, this thread is RACIST )

Flomotion

I've heard theories/rumours that Beethoven was[/b] African

Rumours, purely rumours. But I have definitive proof that Bach really was black. And he even looked a little bit like Lamont Dozier, which is really weird.