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I LISTEN TO BLACK MUSIC

ariel_calmerariel_calmer 3,762 Posts
edited November 2005 in Strut Central
Not to start up another race related thread, but why is "black music" an accepted genre overseas? It's completely baffling to me. It would include almost all genres and is totally nondescript. Or is there a good reason for these "black music junkies" of the world. A few days back I saw an auction where the seller insisted his LP up for bids had the sounds of real black douds, not white guys trying to sound black!! Guaranteed! What is this malarky?? A little colonialist attitude to have! I'm gonna go catch Capote. Better be some good excuses for this nonsense when I get back
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  • meatyogremeatyogre 2,080 Posts
    Better be an excuse for how horrible the movie Capote was too!
  • hammertimehammertime 2,389 Posts
    Not to start up another race related thread, but why is "black music" an accepted genre overseas? It's completely baffling to me. It would include almost all genres and is totally nondescript. Or is there a good reason for these "black music junkies" of the world.

    A few days back I saw an auction where the seller insisted his LP up for bids had the sounds of real black douds, not white guys trying to sound black!! Guaranteed! What is this malarky?? A little colonialist attitude to have!

    I'm gonna go catch Capote. Better be some good excuses for this nonsense when I get back


    the same reason "Japcore" and "Krautrock" are accepted genres here?
  • alieNDNalieNDN 2,181 Posts

    ^get it?
  • aleitaleit 1,915 Posts
    i completely agree.

    with both of you.

    By the way: right now i am listening to authentic white music. not that fake ass crap where white dudes try to sound black. oh no....

    YODELLLLLLL......
  • meatyogremeatyogre 2,080 Posts
    I dislike it when I buy a yodel LP, and it turns out to be some wack gaelic dude trying to yodel like a real Swiss Miss.
  • hammertimehammertime 2,389 Posts
    also, isn't it an acceptable genre here in America?



  • GrafwritahGrafwritah 4,184 Posts
    Not to start up another race related thread, but why is "black music" an accepted genre overseas? It's completely baffling to me. It would include almost all genres and is totally nondescript. Or is there a good reason for these "black music junkies" of the world.

    A few days back I saw an auction where the seller insisted his LP up for bids had the sounds of real black douds, not white guys trying to sound black!! Guaranteed! What is this malarky?? A little colonialist attitude to have!

    Your thinking is entirely American.

    Much of the rest of the world does not have the backdrop of "blackness" issues that the US does. Therefore, much of the wording that people would find offensive in the US has no connotation elsewhere.

    In fact, many countries have minimal black/African populations at all. And of those that do, they don't carrythe America-specific baggage that those native to the US do. I'm not saying other countries are race-issue free, but the words, meanings, and experiences are entirely different.

  • hammertimehammertime 2,389 Posts
    Not to start up another race related thread, but why is "black music" an accepted genre overseas? It's completely baffling to me. It would include almost all genres and is totally nondescript. Or is there a good reason for these "black music junkies" of the world.

    A few days back I saw an auction where the seller insisted his LP up for bids had the sounds of real black douds, not white guys trying to sound black!! Guaranteed! What is this malarky?? A little colonialist attitude to have!

    Your thinking is entirely American.

    Much of the rest of the world does not have the backdrop of "blackness" issues that the US does. Therefore, much of the wording that people would find offensive in the US has no connotation elsewhere.

    In fact, many countries have minimal black/African populations at all. And of those that do, they don't carrythe America-specific baggage that those native to the US do. I'm not saying other countries are race-issue free, but the words, meanings, and experiences are entirely different.



  • Mel_GibsonMel_Gibson 664 Posts
    Not to start up another race related thread, but why is "black music" an accepted genre overseas? It's completely baffling to me. It would include almost all genres and is totally nondescript. Or is there a good reason for these "black music junkies" of the world.

    A few days back I saw an auction where the seller insisted his LP up for bids had the sounds of real black douds, not white guys trying to sound black!! Guaranteed! What is this malarky?? A little colonialist attitude to have!

    Your thinking is entirely American.

    Much of the rest of the world does not have the backdrop of "blackness" issues that the US does. Therefore, much of the wording that people would find offensive in the US has no connotation elsewhere.

    In fact, many countries have minimal black/African populations at all. And of those that do, they don't carrythe America-specific baggage that those native to the US do. I'm not saying other countries are race-issue free, but the words, meanings, and experiences are entirely different.

    What of the "black music" label's nondescriptness?
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Not to start up another race related thread, but why is "black music" an accepted genre overseas? It's completely baffling to me. It would include almost all genres and is totally nondescript. Or is there a good reason for these "black music junkies" of the world.

    A few days back I saw an auction where the seller insisted his LP up for bids had the sounds of real black douds, not white guys trying to sound black!! Guaranteed! What is this malarky?? A little colonialist attitude to have!

    Your thinking is entirely American.

    Much of the rest of the world does not have the backdrop of "blackness" issues that the US does. Therefore, much of the wording that people would find offensive in the US has no connotation elsewhere.

    In fact, many countries have minimal black/African populations at all. And of those that do, they don't carrythe America-specific baggage that those native to the US do. I'm not saying other countries are race-issue free, but the words, meanings, and experiences are entirely different.

    What of the "black music" label's nondescriptness?

    Exactly.

    Let us move beyond this tired discourse of race and confront the puzzle of social class.

    What of rich music versus poor music?
  • GrafwritahGrafwritah 4,184 Posts
    What of the "black music" label's nondescriptness?



    Good q. Maybe it has to do with many overseas people being non-English speaking and that's the quickest, most recognizable term for all parties involved.



    and rich people aren't interested in music so that doesn't work.



  • GrafwritahGrafwritah 4,184 Posts
    Let us move beyond this tired discourse of race and confront the puzzle of social class.

    1.) That's racist.


    2.) I've tried to do that before, and on Soulstrut, that's not allowed. It somehow undermines the role of minorities as American's perpetual whipping boys.
  • soulmarcosasoulmarcosa 4,296 Posts
    What of rich music versus poor music?

    I thought we already went over why 50 Cent has more money than Defari
    b/w
    Take That Shit to UGHH.COM Son
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Let us move beyond this tired discourse of race and confront the puzzle of social class.

    1.) That's racist.


    2.) I've tried to do that before, and on Soulstrut, that's not allowed. It somehow undermines the role of minorities as American's perpetual whipping boys.

    I was joking.
  • GrafwritahGrafwritah 4,184 Posts
    Let us move beyond this tired discourse of race and confront the puzzle of social class.

    1.) That's racist.


    2.) I've tried to do that before, and on Soulstrut, that's not allowed. It somehow undermines the role of minorities as American's perpetual whipping boys.

    I was joking.

    I know. So was I. Sorta.
  • BsidesBsides 4,244 Posts
    Black music is a term pretty widely used in the states too. It generally references genres of music that were started by black people. I see no problem with it really.


  • BsidesBsides 4,244 Posts
    Unless you think the term "urban" is a whole lot better.

  • GrafwritahGrafwritah 4,184 Posts
    Unless you think the term "urban" is a whole lot better.

    CONFIDENTIAL

    FBI Codebreaker Results:

    Urban = black





  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Black music is a term pretty widely used in the states too. It generally references genres of music that were started by black people. I see no problem with it really.



    I don't see anything wrong with using the term as shorthand for music that originated amongst black people (which would include the music of plenty of white artists, and could also exclude the music of plenty of black artists).

    I think a****w is more annoyed by this absolutist attitude that, for purposes of genre classification, it doesn't matter whether or not it sounds like it's within a black tradition if the people who recorded it weren't black.
  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    Unless you think the term "urban" is a whole lot better.

    CONFIDENTIAL

    FBI Codebreaker Results:

    Urban = black

    I think that term sort of originated euphemistically amongst people that didn't want to appear racist, a subtlety which was then lost on pieces of schitt like Emil Wilbekin who ran with it.

    The fact is that "urban" is a very poor proxy for "black".
  • hammertimehammertime 2,389 Posts
    ALSO I was in a Media Play once and they had a "black cinema" section where any movie that starred a black person was filed.
  • BsidesBsides 4,244 Posts
    Black music is a term pretty widely used in the states too. It generally references genres of music that were started by black people. I see no problem with it really.



    I don't see anything wrong with using the term as shorthand for music that originated amongst black people (which would include the music of plenty of white artists, and could also exclude the music of plenty of black artists).

    I think a****w is more annoyed by this absolutist attitude that, for purposes of genre classification, it doesn't matter whether or not it sounds like it's within a black tradition if the people who recorded it weren't black.


    ah hah. I see now. I wonder though if the use of the word "urban" to describe certain types of music is a uniquely american phenomenon.

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,331 Posts
    Black music is a term pretty widely used in the states too. It generally references genres of music that were started by black people. I see no problem with it really.

    i agree with this.
  • meatyogremeatyogre 2,080 Posts
    Out of the Past here in Chicago (a black owned and run record shop) has a couple of boxes of records labeled "White Groups".
  • ariel_calmerariel_calmer 3,762 Posts
    Your thinking is entirely American.



    Much of the rest of the world does not have the backdrop of "blackness" issues that the US does. Therefore, much of the wording that people would find offensive in the US has no connotation elsewhere.



    I'm not saying it's "offensive", but it's just confusing and meaningless. I mean why not just say I listen to music made by humans? It's about that broad.



    In fact, many countries have minimal black/African populations at all. And of those that do, they don't carrythe America-specific baggage that those native to the US do. I'm not saying other countries are race-issue free, but the words, meanings, and experiences are entirely different.



    This is both kind of beautiful and dangerous. Beautiful because they can listen with a different set of ears free from our connotations, and dangerous because they often don't have a clue about the bigger picture.



    Hip-hop is really big in poland, everybody knows who tupac was, and say nigger a lot.



    I guess am bugged more than anything else by the fabrication of "black" musical identity by a cadre of overseas collectro faux taste makers.



    AND FURTHERMORE........ I liked capote.
  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    When I started selling to stores overseas about 15 years ago I was amazed by the names, Black Power Records in Italy, Soul Provider, Soul Brothers in the UK and others along those lines through out Western europe and Japan where one store had an Uncle Ben styled logo (which they later dropped).

    White people would never open stores with those names in the States. I don't think it's offensive, it just points out a cultural difference.

    Black Music as a genre? In Europe and Japan there are all kinds of musical styles that have no meaning to the people who created the music; funk 45, Northern soul, Belgin popcorn, boogie, and on and on.

    And what about all these UK rappers who are representing the Bronx? Or maybe they just say they are making Bronx style rap. What's that about?

    So enough of us Americans talking to each other. What are you guys across the pond thinking?

    Dan
  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,331 Posts
    the sounds of real black douds, not white guys trying to sound black!!



    i mean as far as one little dude knows, African-Americans have had a tremendous impact/influence on American music; whether it be rock (Chuck Berry, Little Richard) or jazz. I see the phrasing "Black Music" as a sort of verification of legitimacy in the music.



    If it's Black, it's real. not that i completely agree with this sort of thinking, but to some extent i am guilty of this.



    It's just that certain types of music are dominated by certain races/ethnicities that it wouldn't be too far off the mark to call soul/jazz/funk, "Black Music".

    I also think many people (not all) who collect such records are also into hip-hop (around the world), and so legitimacy in what they listen to, and what they make becomes a big issue. Although, i'm sure this is the case with other genres of music as well, this sort of classication and legitization of the music seems to be more prevasive among soul/jazz/groove collectors.



    or so i think.
  • cardovacardova 743 Posts


    I wonder though if the use of the word "urban" to describe certain types of music is a uniquely american phenomenon.


    it is.
  • MjukisMjukis 1,675 Posts
    Yes. I'm saying this as a guy across the pond. And the way americans discuss race is very different from how we discuss it in, say, Sweden. Here it's more of a question of Ethnic Swedes (weird term, but referring to white people with roots going way back in the country) and "immigrants" (most of them actually not immigrants, but with roots in Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Africa, whatever). The history is very different - althought Sweden actually did have a colony (a small island, it wasn't very profitable I think). The way americans discuss race on this board and other places are a bit of an eye opener, you clearly see things differently than me, and you can learn a lot from the american perspective, actually.

    As far as the P Brothers talking about Heavy Bronx, well, hiphop is their religion. I've met them once and you sorta understand it after that.
  • BsidesBsides 4,244 Posts
    Yes. I'm saying this as a guy across the pond. And the way americans discuss race is very different from how we discuss it in, say, Sweden. Here it's more of a question of Ethnic Swedes (weird term, but referring to white people with roots going way back in the country) and "immigrants" (most of them actually not immigrants, but with roots in Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Africa, whatever). The history is very different - althought Sweden actually did have a colony (a small island, it wasn't very profitable I think). The way americans discuss race on this board and other places are a bit of an eye opener, you clearly see things differently than me, and you can learn a lot from the american perspective, actually.

    As far as the P Brothers talking about Heavy Bronx, well, hiphop is their religion. I've met them once and you sorta understand it after that.



    Sweden sounds really chill, and everyone Ive met from there supports this assumption.
    America is not very chill, but we like it here.
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