Rap taste on Soulstrut remains an everlasting mystery to me.
How so?
Perhaps because especially rap-discussions here are mostly dominated by US-Americans who seem to have a completely different approach to judging rap recordings than Europeans/Germans.
Many of the albums bashed in here are accepted as classics where I come from and they were highly-acclaimed when they came out. "Like Water for Chocolate" was everybodys shit in 1999. Nobody cared about No Limits back then. The CDs were there but I don't know nobody who listened to them. They were an example of poor Photoshop skills but that's it.
I can only assume that ya'll paying much more attention to lyrics than me.
I have gotten used to almost never agreeing with the strut when it comes to new rap (Gucci Mane, Lil' ..., Woka Flakka etc.) but I'm a little surprised about the dismantling of albums I thought were widely accepted also in the US.
Oh, yeah: "Canibus is an animal with a mechanical mandible!"
I think I had suppressed all memory of that one.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
disco_che said:
HarveyCanal said:
disco_che said:
Rap taste on Soulstrut remains an everlasting mystery to me.
How so?
Perhaps because especially rap-discussions here are mostly dominated by US-Americans who seem to have a completely different approach to judging rap recordings than Europeans/Germans.
Many of the albums bashed in here are accepted as classics where I come from and they were highly-acclaimed when they came out. "Like Water for Chocolate" was everybodys shit in 1999. Nobody cared about No Limits back then. The CDs were there but I don't know nobody who listened to them. They were an example of poor Photoshop skills but that's it.
I can only assume that ya'll paying much more attention to lyrics than me.
I have gotten used to almost never agreeing with the strut when it comes to new rap (Gucci Mane, Lil' ..., Woka Flakka etc.) but I'm a little surprised about the dismantling of albums I thought were widely accepted also in the US.
Fair enough...but the Strut actually leans more towards a Euro-man perspective on rap than the at large folks in general here in the States. And really, Master P and Baby didn't get mega-rich by Common and Tribe remaining popular well past their worth. People were actually buying and enjoying No LImit and Cash Money releases. I promise you, it's true.
Fair enough...but the Strut actually leans more towards a Euro-man perspective on rap than the at large folks in general here in the States.
And how would you summarize what that Euro-man perspective on rap is? What's the biggest difference in our approaches?
I'm really interested in the outer-perspective of european rap-consumer behaviour.
When LWFC dropped, Faux was answering his phone "Peace."
I remember listening to that album for the first time, hearing the intro and thinking, "Aw, man...is Com on the Afro-Cuban Santeria bandwagon now?" That seemed to be a mini-movement at the time among the corniest people I knew. But yeah, there were some joints on that album. I wasn't mad at "The Light," but cringed at ???Payback is a Grandmother,??? ???A Song for Assata??? and ???A Film Called (Pimp).??? And Pop's Rap really went off the deep end on this album.
As I sort of referenced in the Rap Quotables thread, I was probably the biggest Common Stan around for a very long time. I don't know of any other Texans who owned three copies of his first album (why did I own three copies of his first album?). When Resurrection dropped, I listened to it once a day for at least a year. One Day... was a disappointment as a follow-up, but that was to be expected. LWFC marked a real turning point; it had some great songs on it, but its misses foreshadowed the Electric Circus fiasco.
One of my favorite songs on Resurrection is "In My Own World," so maybe it's ironic that I stopped liking him when he really went into his own world.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
disco_che said:
HarveyCanal said:
Fair enough...but the Strut actually leans more towards a Euro-man perspective on rap than the at large folks in general here in the States.
And how would you summarize what that Euro-man perspective on rap is? What's the biggest difference in our approaches?
I'm really interested in the outer-perspective of european rap-consumer behaviour.
Read your own posts. You said everyone around you was listening to LWFC. That didn't happen here. And then you said noone around you was caring about No Limit. That didn't happen here either.
As far as summarizing...y'all don't experience the context of where this stuff comes from and how it goes down firsthand or even secondhand for that matter. It's like y'all are analyzing a football game by only reading the boxscore in the newspaper the next day. Nobody's fault there, just the way it is.
But it does get a lil excruciating when y'all try so hard to pretend that that's not the way it is.
But it does get a lil excruciating when y'all try so hard to pretend that that's not the way it is.
Come on, I don't know who "y'all" is but I can't remember trying to pretend to know where it all comes from (never have been to the US) and I'm teaching nobody about what "real Hip-Hop" is or similar bullshit. I'm just stating that the rap thing is preceived completely different here than there and that is was surprised that it's even more different than I thought before.
Personally I don't believe in homogenous Euroman-behaviour. I don't even understand peoples languages that are livin a few hundred kilometers away.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
disco_che said:
HarveyCanal said:
But it does get a lil excruciating when y'all try so hard to pretend that that's not the way it is.
Come on, I don't know who "y'all" is but I can't remember trying to pretend to know where it all comes from (never have been to the US) and I'm teaching nobody about what "real Hip-Hop" is or similar bullshit. I'm just stating that the rap thing is preceived completely different here than there and that is was surprised that it's even more different than I thought before.
Personally I don't believe in homogenous Euroman-behaviour. I don't even understand peoples languages that are livin a few hundred kilometers away.
You asked me to summarize and it seems that you are now indicting me for summarizing.
Anyway..."I'm hitting 16 switches like Dre, 'cause where I'm from that's what everybody play."
There's been some great coffee shop rap over the years...but that's about where it is confined to. To think that dudes such as Common or even Dilla for that matter have ever lead the charge on rap at large is really out to lunch.
Also, you say you aren't trying to lump anybody with broad strokes, but then you post something such as : Lil ____ as if Lil Half Dead and Lil Boosie are even remotely similar.
I'm all for discussing these things, but we don't seem to be anywhere near approaching the same page on this ish.
Fair enough...but the Strut actually leans more towards a Euro-man perspective on rap than the at large folks in general here in the States.
And how would you summarize what that Euro-man perspective on rap is? What's the biggest difference in our approaches?
I'm really interested in the outer-perspective of european rap-consumer behaviour.
You aksed me to summarize and it seems that you are now indicting me for summarizing.
There's been some great coffee shop rap over the years...but that's about where it is confined to. To think that dudes such as Common or even Dilla for that matter have ever lead the charge on rap at large is really out to lunch.
Also, you say you aren't trying to lump anybody with broad strokes, but the you post something such as : Lil ____ as if Lil Half Dead and Lil Boosie are even remotely similar.
I'm all for discussing these things, but we don't seem to be anywhere near approaching the same page on this ish.
Yep, my lumping together wasn't objective and needless provocation. I admit that I never even tried to get into mentioned rappers because I never liked synth beats and autotune choruses and I never heard anything else than this when I clicked on some clips in ss-threads. I simply don't like it and that's why I'm staying away from the threads discussing said artists.
So far I thought I would agree with most of strutters about "classic rap albums" at least but as you cleared up, my imagination about rap consumption in the US of the nineties may have been also wrong. Don't know if you're able to speak for the whole country or if a New Yorker would have different views on this. I'm corrected and that's fine.
Still I have the impression you were venting some built-up euroman aggravation about them pretending to know better and I don't felt like I personally fit into that behaviour nor have I observed other eurostrutteurs doing so. Where does the anger come from?
Fair enough...but the Strut actually leans more towards a Euro-man perspective on rap than the at large folks in general here in the States.
And how would you summarize what that Euro-man perspective on rap is? What's the biggest difference in our approaches?
I'm really interested in the outer-perspective of european rap-consumer behaviour.
I have no clue who that is nor where.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
It's not anger...it's being fascinated that you are looking at the Strut as being too harsh on what you seem to be considering a classic album like LWFC when the Strut is waaaaay more lenient toward such a record than US rap fans are in general.
At least most of the folks on the Strut have even heard it.
To your credit though, there did used to be a loud minority that would make groups that even I love such as Gang Starr or Pete Rock & CL Smooth appear to be much more importnat than they actually were.
It's not anger...it's being fascinated that you are looking at the Strut as being too harsh on what you seem to be considering a classic album like LWFC when the Strut is waaaaay more lenient toward such a record than US rap fans are in general.
At least most of the folks on the Strut have even heard it.
To your credit though, there did used to be a loud minority that would make groups that even I love such as Gang Starr or Pete Rock & CL Smooth appear to be much more importnat than they actually were.
So thanks for the explanations. Makes me glad I'm experiencing another "rap reality" than you. Here nobody my age who has grown up with rap would doubt that e.g. Gang Starr are among the 5 most important rap artists of the nineties and I'm happy about that. No wonder certain rappers spend so much time touring europe.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Fair enough...but the Strut actually leans more towards a Euro-man perspective on rap than the at large folks in general here in the States.
And how would you summarize what that Euro-man perspective on rap is? What's the biggest difference in our approaches?
I'm really interested in the outer-perspective of european rap-consumer behaviour.
I have no clue who that is nor where.
It's Big Boi at a show in Norway this weekend--it's just a funny picture.
You should chill with the self-satisfied "I'm glad I live in Europe" business, though--it's a really bad look when discussing an inherently American form.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Plenty of gangsta/Southern rap fans in Germany and Norway.
You should chill with the self-satisfied "I'm glad I live in Europe" business, though--it's a really bad look when discussing an inherently American form.
The point is not that I'm living in Europe but the fact that where I live the music I happen to like is apparently more appreciated than where it was recorded. This has nothing to do with sentiments of superiority or anything related. It's just my luck that I have a good chance of playing the music I like to a crowd that dances and appreciates. In front of a US-crowd I would most probably fail with my take on what's good and danceable rap.
No self-satisfaction involved. Why so sensitive?
Plenty of gangsta/Southern rap fans in Germany and Norway.
Possibly. I'm getting old and am disconnected to what 15 year olds are listening at the moment. I'm starting to have kids so soon enough they will force it on me.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Man...
1. I don't think a Common is more appreciated in Europe than he is in the US. Your assumption that just because a Dogg Pound or a Bone Thugs N Harmony has always been more popular...and relevant to where rap has been headed for 15 years now...that Euromen simply know better when it comes to Common is laughable at best.
2. I wasn't talking about 15 year olds when I said there are plenty of gangsta rap fans in Germany and Norway. And there's no possibly about it. I know some of these folks. Nastykutt for instance produces for all sorts of Southern artists. Actually, it's the Dope E's and Point Blank's, basically legendary but has been gangsta rap artists, of the rap world that are at this point in time more appreciated in Europe than in the US. The same might apply to a Mikah 9 or Mystik Journeymen, basically alternative underground rap artists...but certainly not Common.
And yeah dude, I'm done with this conversation for obvious reasons.
Comments
Son, I'm surprised you run with them
Perhaps because especially rap-discussions here are mostly dominated by US-Americans who seem to have a completely different approach to judging rap recordings than Europeans/Germans.
Many of the albums bashed in here are accepted as classics where I come from and they were highly-acclaimed when they came out. "Like Water for Chocolate" was everybodys shit in 1999. Nobody cared about No Limits back then. The CDs were there but I don't know nobody who listened to them. They were an example of poor Photoshop skills but that's it.
I can only assume that ya'll paying much more attention to lyrics than me.
I have gotten used to almost never agreeing with the strut when it comes to new rap (Gucci Mane, Lil' ..., Woka Flakka etc.) but I'm a little surprised about the dismantling of albums I thought were widely accepted also in the US.
Oh, yeah: "Canibus is an animal with a mechanical mandible!"
I think I had suppressed all memory of that one.
Fair enough...but the Strut actually leans more towards a Euro-man perspective on rap than the at large folks in general here in the States. And really, Master P and Baby didn't get mega-rich by Common and Tribe remaining popular well past their worth. People were actually buying and enjoying No LImit and Cash Money releases. I promise you, it's true.
And how would you summarize what that Euro-man perspective on rap is? What's the biggest difference in our approaches?
I'm really interested in the outer-perspective of european rap-consumer behaviour.
I remember listening to that album for the first time, hearing the intro and thinking, "Aw, man...is Com on the Afro-Cuban Santeria bandwagon now?" That seemed to be a mini-movement at the time among the corniest people I knew. But yeah, there were some joints on that album. I wasn't mad at "The Light," but cringed at ???Payback is a Grandmother,??? ???A Song for Assata??? and ???A Film Called (Pimp).??? And Pop's Rap really went off the deep end on this album.
As I sort of referenced in the Rap Quotables thread, I was probably the biggest Common Stan around for a very long time. I don't know of any other Texans who owned three copies of his first album (why did I own three copies of his first album?). When Resurrection dropped, I listened to it once a day for at least a year. One Day... was a disappointment as a follow-up, but that was to be expected. LWFC marked a real turning point; it had some great songs on it, but its misses foreshadowed the Electric Circus fiasco.
One of my favorite songs on Resurrection is "In My Own World," so maybe it's ironic that I stopped liking him when he really went into his own world.
He's your worst nightmare squared. That's double if you ain't mathematically aware. :dodododo:
Actually, it was "Paz"--to give it that Afro-Cuban Santeria twist.
why do you do this
Read your own posts. You said everyone around you was listening to LWFC. That didn't happen here. And then you said noone around you was caring about No Limit. That didn't happen here either.
As far as summarizing...y'all don't experience the context of where this stuff comes from and how it goes down firsthand or even secondhand for that matter. It's like y'all are analyzing a football game by only reading the boxscore in the newspaper the next day. Nobody's fault there, just the way it is.
But it does get a lil excruciating when y'all try so hard to pretend that that's not the way it is.
The majority of the Strut does not listen to (that lane of) new rap.
(But it definitely does not stop some of them from expressing an opinion about it)
UGHHH that was painful
You asked me to summarize and it seems that you are now indicting me for summarizing.
Anyway..."I'm hitting 16 switches like Dre, 'cause where I'm from that's what everybody play."
There's been some great coffee shop rap over the years...but that's about where it is confined to. To think that dudes such as Common or even Dilla for that matter have ever lead the charge on rap at large is really out to lunch.
Also, you say you aren't trying to lump anybody with broad strokes, but then you post something such as : Lil ____ as if Lil Half Dead and Lil Boosie are even remotely similar.
I'm all for discussing these things, but we don't seem to be anywhere near approaching the same page on this ish.
Yep, my lumping together wasn't objective and needless provocation. I admit that I never even tried to get into mentioned rappers because I never liked synth beats and autotune choruses and I never heard anything else than this when I clicked on some clips in ss-threads. I simply don't like it and that's why I'm staying away from the threads discussing said artists.
So far I thought I would agree with most of strutters about "classic rap albums" at least but as you cleared up, my imagination about rap consumption in the US of the nineties may have been also wrong. Don't know if you're able to speak for the whole country or if a New Yorker would have different views on this. I'm corrected and that's fine.
Still I have the impression you were venting some built-up euroman aggravation about them pretending to know better and I don't felt like I personally fit into that behaviour nor have I observed other eurostrutteurs doing so. Where does the anger come from?
I have no clue who that is nor where.
At least most of the folks on the Strut have even heard it.
To your credit though, there did used to be a loud minority that would make groups that even I love such as Gang Starr or Pete Rock & CL Smooth appear to be much more importnat than they actually were.
So thanks for the explanations. Makes me glad I'm experiencing another "rap reality" than you. Here nobody my age who has grown up with rap would doubt that e.g. Gang Starr are among the 5 most important rap artists of the nineties and I'm happy about that. No wonder certain rappers spend so much time touring europe.
BG > Common
It's Big Boi at a show in Norway this weekend--it's just a funny picture.
You should chill with the self-satisfied "I'm glad I live in Europe" business, though--it's a really bad look when discussing an inherently American form.
The point is not that I'm living in Europe but the fact that where I live the music I happen to like is apparently more appreciated than where it was recorded. This has nothing to do with sentiments of superiority or anything related. It's just my luck that I have a good chance of playing the music I like to a crowd that dances and appreciates. In front of a US-crowd I would most probably fail with my take on what's good and danceable rap.
No self-satisfaction involved. Why so sensitive?
Possibly. I'm getting old and am disconnected to what 15 year olds are listening at the moment. I'm starting to have kids so soon enough they will force it on me.
1. I don't think a Common is more appreciated in Europe than he is in the US. Your assumption that just because a Dogg Pound or a Bone Thugs N Harmony has always been more popular...and relevant to where rap has been headed for 15 years now...that Euromen simply know better when it comes to Common is laughable at best.
2. I wasn't talking about 15 year olds when I said there are plenty of gangsta rap fans in Germany and Norway. And there's no possibly about it. I know some of these folks. Nastykutt for instance produces for all sorts of Southern artists. Actually, it's the Dope E's and Point Blank's, basically legendary but has been gangsta rap artists, of the rap world that are at this point in time more appreciated in Europe than in the US. The same might apply to a Mikah 9 or Mystik Journeymen, basically alternative underground rap artists...but certainly not Common.
And yeah dude, I'm done with this conversation for obvious reasons.
oh brother.
i hate more rap around here than most ppl