BBE British Bootlegging Enterprises

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  • jinx74jinx74 2,287 Posts
    BBE should reissue this thread.

    or it could be an insert when the record comes out!

  • FrankFrank 2,444 Posts
    i will never understand how people that seem to like the same music can fight over it, all this exclusivity s*it is really beyond me.
    Lets hope you can fix this.. money getting spent on lawyers will not help the original artist, and the peanuts that you earn with one track of a 20+ tracks comp in these times will maybe pay the petrol to the court.

    In Europe, the losing party has to pay all legal costs.
    This is pretty much the definition of an open and shut so I don't think there's much of a risk involved on our part.

  • jimeyjimey 279 Posts
    me as a cosument, i don't want to read this (on a message board). totally bad look for everybody involved.

  • FrankFrank 2,444 Posts
    me as a cosument, i don't want to read this (on a message board). totally bad look for everybody involved.

    Why then just go and read soemthing else instead?

    I didn't intend to respond to any of the personal stuff but then I felt like I had little choice. I still stand behind my initial post. My beef is with BBE and not with Amir or Kon or any of their groupies.

    Anyway, sorry for the uglyness above although it was somehow predictable I guess.

  • holmesholmes 3,532 Posts
    BBE should reissue this thread.

    or it could be an insert when the record comes out!
    ^^^^this^^^^^^

    This thread is I will say that seems a little off to know someone is planning on comping a track, sell them the record & then turn around & beat them to the punch on an exclusive license so they then can't actually use it though. Maybe BBE genuinely thought they had bought the rights & it was all good, or maybe they were just hoping to sneak it through. Interesting thread, but not really a lot of good looks being shown.

  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    best thread in years

  • jinx74jinx74 2,287 Posts
    best thread in years

    i agree... what else can bring me onto the message board to poast?

    isnt this a moment?

  • discos_almadiscos_alma discos_alma 2,164 Posts

    the world has seen this behavior for centuries now.


  • LamontLamont 1,087 Posts
    what's this western concept "copyright" you speak of ?

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,032 Posts
    best thread in years

    Absolutely. It's like the dark side of Monty Stark's big BEP thread.

    Tenderberries who think it should be deleted need to adjust their cup.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,032 Posts
    On the other hand, I guess we won't be seeing Kon, Amir and Frank DJing together anytime soon and that is sad.

  • Options
    Crazy fucking thread.

  • cpeetzcpeetz 2,112 Posts
    No real reply to the he said he said of this thread...
    nobodies coming out clean when you're rolling in the mud,
    although one party seems quite a bit cleaner by the looks of it from here.

    My question is why is this exclusivity of licensing thing so common on African comps?
    It doesn't really happen from comps from other locales that I've seen.

  • FrankFrank 2,444 Posts


    This thread is I will say that seems a little off to know someone is planning on comping a track, sell them the record & then turn around & beat them to the punch on an exclusive license so they then can't actually use it though. Maybe BBE genuinely thought they had bought the rights & it was all good, or maybe they were just hoping to sneak it through. Interesting thread, but not really a lot of good looks being shown.

    The time I had sold the record to Amir, I wasn't even thinking of doing a Nigerian Disco comp. When I did get started on this project, I can't remember how many tracks we both had wanted to use but I tried to avoid as many crossover as possible. I also offered him to buy back the records from him that I thought would be essential to me. You don't buy a record from me and get exclusive copyright along with it. That you have to source on your own. Any real digger, compiler or reissuer should know that but boutique shoppers apparently struggle with such complicated concept

    In the end, I figured out it's all about who gets them cleared first.
    The Doris Ebong track ended up being the only one track from the bunch of records I had sold to Amir that we ended up including even though licensing appeared to be difficult and at the point we went into manufacturing, we only had a vague promise to get it cleared and figured we do the "escrow account" arrangement and pay once we find the artist.

    The day I made contact with the copyright holder, I notified Amir that we have cleared the track and asked him to not include the track on his comp. This was 6 weeks ago. He claimed the CD was already manufactured. The song is not included on the vinyl version of the release so no problem there. I then took my grief to the record label.

    Fact is that if you release an uncleared track, you are running the risk of someone else clearing it. The labels attitude and way to first play for time and act like they didn't know if they had cleared the track and then later their bogus licensing with the son of the deceased label owner and false claim that they and not us would own the licensing was what really convinced me to fight this thing with whatever it takes.

    I was fully aware that to license the track exclusively was an aggressive move that was intended to force the track off a competing product.

    I felt bad about doing this. Mostly out of respect for Amir but as I said, you're running a risk when releasing an unlicensed track and if you're running a risk, you should be prepared for all eventualities.

    Amir, you showed your true colors when you said
    "on another note, people to know that when says he is "helping" people in afircan or paying "good" to my agents in africa to help find shit that is full of shit! trust me, i got the whole back story on ya ass!!!"
    I would be interested in that story, don't be shy, go ahead and tell.

    I have  feeling you won't because you do not know shit about Africa, the people I work with or how I work with them. You are a boutique record shopper who's never dug up a single African record. you buy them from luxury stores or from a doctor, a privileged armchair collector of west African records, formerly in Queens, now in Maine who's also a good customer or friend of mine.

    by the way, i specifically asked for african disco and boogie records but you kept playing me wack ass african funk records. you didn't even know what a disco record sounded like until kept having to go thru more stuff....it was to the point where i was going to give up.
    You're really showing your love and appreciation of music here as well as your immense respect for artists other than yourself.

    Sorry to have offended you by offering you "wack ass african funk records"
    I was only being sensitive and didn't show you the more high-end records because
    I knew you couldn't afford them.


    you need to find a new hobby!!
    I'm not the one who has to hold down a day job, this makes you the hobbyist and not me.

    ou use this money to boutique-dig the records you use.
    You buy these records for more money than what the label pays the artist -or no, -the copyright holder. sorry, I got confused.. like Kon explained in his previous post, you are the ARTISTS. That's your explanation why your picture is on the cover and not the people who made the music. That's also why your names are on the cover and the names of the people who made the records are in smaller print right? What a preposterous, self entitled and hillariously stupid mindset. Do you really think you're adding something to two tunes by aristically blending the one into he other? For my taste this music doesn't need your artistry, it's strong and beautiful enough all in its own.

    Then when you're done compiling your purchases you go back to the boutique and start whining how you have bills to pay and talk them into buying back your records. The patented boutique-dig-reverseflip... hotshot dj that you are. Are you poor? Who's booking you guys? People with no money?

    Attacking my digging ethics... I pay much better than any other dealer or collector. I send my agents links to ebay auctions. They know what this shit is worth and this is why every month, several hundreds of Nigerian and Ghanaian records that you later see popping up on various sites and in various stores around the globe first go through my greedy hands. I buy a slim choice of top merchandise at $50 a pop and I keep what I need for my own collection and privately sell doubles for high prices. My agents know that I'm running a profit with this and they understand that this is how I'm being paid for my services towards them. They receive 50-60% of the final sales value. My agents also know that all the money I make eventually gets re-invested in more records for myself so all the money eventually ends up in their pockets anyway. I don't do this to pay my bills. Everything I do every day, I do to get more and more records.

    You and Kon are the ones who turned this thing personal which is a very bad choice when the subject is somebody you do not know anything about.

    Kon, I still don't have any idea what this whole thing has to do with you.
    But you're funny in how highly you seem to think of yourself.
    I don't know what it is you feel like having to compensate for by constantly assuring yourself and others what a great artist, dj and producer you are and reminding me to "stay in my lane". Or else?



  • discos_almadiscos_alma discos_alma 2,164 Posts

  • BreezBreez 1,706 Posts
    This shits crazy. It's like a soap opera for diggers:
    As The Record Turns.

  • NateBizzoNateBizzo 2,328 Posts
    THIS IS THE SOULSTRUT I'VE BEEN MISSING.


    best thread in years

  • TNGTNG 234 Posts
    Regardless if this is the right place or not, the world needs to know that BBE is kinda shady. It took nearly two years for us (Numero) to get Frank Penn and Jesse Jones paid from similar infractions. BBE's certainly not above just putting shit out when push comes to shove.

    Frank, you look seriously foolish when you take it beyond the foothold of "These dudes are in the wrong." The legal threats are totally retarded, as no lawyer is going to trial over one song on a comp that will top out at 3000 copies. It's just not fucking worth it. Make your point and move on. I agree wholeheartedly that SS should know about this bullshit "reissue" label, but put it on the table and let the consumer decide.

    And Kon and Amir? Defending your employer against this is just not a good look. We've discussed this before, and you know they're hardly on the level. I know you want the paycheck, but if you don't want your name covered in shit, don't swim in a septic tank.

    Lastly, I want to go over something that seems to be getting lost. It's about the artists. This celebrity digger shit needs to stop, and the hoarding for the sake of exclusivity can go too. Whenever we're approached about a sublicense, I always try to balance the positive and negative aspects of a deal. Is there enough money to make it worth our while? Does it create more value in the copyright? Does it affect a pre-existing product in anyway?

    My advice: If BBE is willing to give you $500 for the track, take it and redistribute. This shit ain't ever going to recoup, and ultimately it's about making money for you, the musicians, the publishers, and the songwriters. Maybe the song gets picked up for a German TV show, maybe it just buys everyone a pair of shoes. You win either way. Holding back for the sake of exclusive content is just leaving cash on the table. In this business, there isn't that much, so take what you can, when you can.

  • djannadjanna 1,543 Posts
    THIS IS THE SOULSTRUT I'VE BEEN MISSING.


    best thread in years



    Agreed! Although as an English teacher, I am cringing at the grammatical mix-ups. I'd like to do a thorough edit before we get this printed up anywhere.

    b/w and a side of

  • Options
    knowledge dropped


  • Lastly, I want to go over something that seems to be getting lost. It's about the artists[/b] . This celebrity digger shit needs to stop

  • FrankFrank 2,444 Posts


    fuck your agent...

    You can tell him face to face early next year when I'm flying him in for a visit.

  • FrankFrank 2,444 Posts


    Frank, you look seriously foolish when you take it beyond the foothold of "These dudes are in the wrong." The legal threats are totally retarded, as no lawyer is going to trial over one song on a comp that will top out at 3000 copies.

    We sold more than 3.000 copies in the first week alone.
    According to Kon and Amir, their record will sell even better. Probably has something to do with them being ARTISTS and all.

    Hadn't we managed to get the original contract to prove that we have righfully obtained the copyright you would be right about this being a foolish thing to pursue but as things stand, we can not lose. And in a European court, the losing party pays all legal costs including the other party's lawyer bill.

    This will set an example and teach BBE a lesson.

    Letting them get away with it would only make sure they never change their ways.

    Not like this wasn't done before. Vampisoul for example had to pull back and destroy their Fela comps because of similar problems.

    Plus, I've never had any fear of looking foolish.


    My advice: If BBE is willing to give you $500 for the track, take it and redistribute. This shit ain't ever going to recoup, and ultimately it's about making money for you, the musicians, the publishers, and the songwriters. Maybe the song gets picked up for a German TV show, maybe it just buys everyone a pair of shoes. You win either way. Holding back for the sake of exclusive content is just leaving cash on the table. In this business, there isn't that much, so take what you can, when you can.

    We are also in the process of obtaining the OG video clip for this track
    And might have some further plans for this song.

    Plus, this has become a matter of principle. Stubborn is my middle name.

    And lastly, these guys have seriously pissed me off and I will not shy any cost or effort to stick it to them as hard as I can.

    They can either re-call and re-do the CD voluntarily or under force and after a trip to the cleaner's. There will not be any middle ground.

  • FrankFrank 2,444 Posts
    THIS IS THE SOULSTRUT I'VE BEEN MISSING.


    best thread in years



    Agreed! Although as an English teacher, I am cringing at the grammatical mix-ups. I'd like to do a thorough edit before we get this printed up anywhere.

    b/w and a side of

    Sorry... not my mother language. Do you want to be my editor?

  • markus71markus71 937 Posts
    With all the things being said in this thread, this better be a REALLY good track!


  • spivyspivy 866 Posts
    after hearing boogie trip i'm feeling a bit underwhelmed. it's cool in a P&P in africa kind of way. not totally melting my face off. hope shit works out between the parties involved. the record world is too small for all this ugliness. also hope doris ebong or whoever wrote or owns the track gets paid.

  • staxwaxstaxwax 1,474 Posts




    b/w

    "this is the one one I call a boogie trip - this going to be expensive trip - because it will cost you"
    how prophetic

  • it further displays your imperialistic, controlling nature.



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