..reminded me of an interesting statistic, although most likely outdated considering the source - a video from the 80s, I heard in my Engineering class last week: In the U.S., for every person with a BS degree or higher in engineering, there are 30 lawyers. In Japan, it is (was?) the opposite. I assume this was supposed to be taken as "there are not enough engineers" and not "there are too many lawyers", but there you have it.
I find this really hard to believe.
According to US News, there are 220 undergraduate engineering programs in the U.S.
I believe there are are just under 200 accredited law schools.
These numbers only allow for a crude comparison. They do not--for example--factor in class size.
Nonetheless, there's no way the disparity is anywhere close to 30-to-1.
come on now faux, it's a whole lot more fun to just make up absurd stats. out of whole cloth to support stupid arguments meant to denigrate an entire profession and boost another.
if the other side is a poisonous person it means nothing & they will still end up with the kids & everything their way.
^ This.
My understanding from anecdotal evidence is that unless there is documented evidence of attempted murder (or some other heinous crime) on the part of the child's mother, the court will generally grant her whatever custody and financial arrangements she desires. Who is sympathetic to a single father? There is probably a fancy Latin legal term for "Mother knows best" that explains this precedent.
if the other side is a poisonous person it means nothing & they will still end up with the kids & everything their way.
^ This.
My understanding from anecdotal evidence is that unless there is documented evidence of attempted murder (or some other heinous crime) on the part of the child's mother, the court will generally grant her whatever custody and financial arrangements she desires. Who is sympathetic to a single father? There is probably a fancy Latin legal term for "Mother knows best" that explains this precedent.
i was the one who started the original thread that mannybolone is asserting to. while i totally and wholeheartedly agree with Frank's sentiments, i'm not the sort of person who could do that and stay sane. if i could i would, no doubt.
but i got divorced about 18 months ago and made the biggest mistake of my life (after getting married in the first place), by not hiring my own lawyer, getting strung along by the ***** **** ex wife and her lawyer, and caving in to their demands. i was in no position to bargain though because she is foreign and i was in her country. basically i couldn't leave and move on with life if we were still married, so i had to fork out the cash. luckily we didn't have kids. if i had had my own lawyer i might have faired a little better, but it was worth it to get rid of her and be able to stop looking over my shoulder.
so really and truly, and from painful personal experience, hiring a lawyer is absolutely essential. i thought i could get the divorce on the cheap, but i was blindsided by the *****. with hindsight it would have been worth going into debt paying a lawyer rather than seeing the ex wife get the money. just definitely get the best lawyer you can
These divorce stories make me never want to get married. As an American, I have a 50% chance of getting divorced. No one gets married thinking it's going to fail, but is it worth the gamble? For those of you who have been married and divorced, was it worth it? I don't mean to imply that you regret having your kids (I'm sure kids are the silver lining), but was the experience of "being married" worth the hassle of the divorce?
I come from a super traditional family and I know my parents are going to start laying on the pressure to get married pretty thick when my brother and I get a little older. Their marriage hasn't been the happiest, but they're too conservative to divorce or separate. I hate the idea of getting married because you're supposed to and have always been a little prejudiced against my friends who chose to marry young.
so really and truly, and from painful personal experience, hiring a lawyer is absolutely essential.
Not always. I got divorced for $250.00 (The court filing fee) and did all the paperwork myself with help from a friend that works at the court house. My ex and I had no kids, did not own a house together and never had a shared/joint bank account or credit card accounts in joint names. Everything was always kept separate. The legal part of the divorce was very easy. She signed the paperwork and I did everything else. That said, I will never get married again and do not understand the point of being married in this day and age. All it does is cause mad drama.
that is a difficult question and impossible to answer for someone else. since i got divorced, i was in another relationship with a beautiful, wonderful girl, who i was (still am) head over heals crazy in love with. she is indonesian, i am a uk'er, and my previous marriage totally ruined my mindstate about doing it again. i would have married her in a heartbeat had it been my first time, but i couldn't risk being burned so soon. when i had to come back home the long-distance was impossible without knowing the definite prospects of a future together. so what i am trying to say is yes, i would do it again, and i think everyone should do it once. but only with the right person, and never ever settle for someone if you are not absolutely sure about them. when it feels right, it is right and you will know
That said, I will never get married again and do not understand the point of being married in this day and age. All it does is cause mad drama.
i think my judgement is probably clouded from living in SE Asia, and the difficulites of immigration for one or the other. granted, that's not a good reason to get married, but it definitely influenced me. if i met someone from my own country i would probably now (with hindsight) agree with you.
These divorce stories make me never want to get married. As an American, I have a 50% chance of getting divorced.
Not exactly.
For one thing, the divorce rate was never 50%. The highest it reached was around 40% and that was back in the 1970s; it's been declining since. It's still very high in comparison to other Western countries but the "1 in 2" stat was never very accurate and was based more around projections than supporting data. However, 50% plays better.
Second of all, a high divorce rate doesn't mean a lot when it comes to calculating any individual's odds if/when they got married. It's an aggregate, based on a massive, national number, but marriage odds fluctuate massively when you start to pick the data apart.
If both you and your intended are college educated, employed, and older than 25, the odds of a long-term successful marriage shoot up considerably. Part of the reason why America has uniquely high rates of divorce is because we also have uniquely high rates of marriage, including many couples that - based on age or economic stability - are likely to encounter a great deal more conflict than older, more financially secure couples.
I come from a super traditional family and I know my parents are going to start laying on the pressure to get married pretty thick when my brother and I get a little older. Their marriage hasn't been the happiest, but they're too conservative to divorce or separate. I hate the idea of getting married because you're supposed to and have always been a little prejudiced against my friends who chose to marry young.
I hear you. I'm not really a big proponent of marriage (though I am, mostly because I had a child with my partner and once that happens, getting married is such an afterthought). I think there are plenty of reasons why marriage may not be what a couple wants and I think that's totally cool.
At the same time, I don't understand the anti-marriage attitude among people who've never been married. The fact that marriages end in divorce isn't, to me, a rationale for not getting married. Most relationships end in break-ups; doesn't mean you shouldn't get into relationships! Obviously, the legal/financial complications change that but ultimately, married works for more people than it doesn't work for. It's as good (or bad) an experience as two people are willing to make of it. Americans, as a whole, put way too much emphasis on it but I don't think it's a useless or meaningless institution.
These divorce stories make me never want to get married. As an American, I have a 50% chance of getting divorced. No one gets married thinking it's going to fail, but is it worth the gamble? For those of you who have been married and divorced, was it worth it? I don't mean to imply that you regret having your kids (I'm sure kids are the silver lining), but was the experience of "being married" worth the hassle of the divorce?
I come from a super traditional family and I know my parents are going to start laying on the pressure to get married pretty thick when my brother and I get a little older. Their marriage hasn't been the happiest, but they're too conservative to divorce or separate. I hate the idea of getting married because you're supposed to and have always been a little prejudiced against my friends who chose to marry young.
Whilst it is undoubtedly true there are many marriages that fail, I wouldnt let this dissuade you from considering the possibility of getting married. I have been with my now wife for 13 years, we were lucky enough to live together for 7 of those years with out being married and with out pressure from our parents about getting married. I am sure if you looked at the failed marriages that make up the bulk of the 50%, i would say that at least 90% of them you could see from a mile off they would not work, yet people just go down that path because they think it is what society expects from them. If you build a relationship from the start with trust and respect there really is not much that you can not over come, but if the relationship is built around aesthetics only/great sex only/ convenience or what ever then it is obviously going to take a whole bunch more work as these things are destined to fade over time. On the other hand marriage isn't that important really if you love some one, you don't need it officialized by an authority that doesn't know the 2 individuals from a bar of soap. the above statement is in most simple form i could condense it into btw, so its a little light on details, but i am sure you get the idea.
Well, unfortunately, Strut's severe lack of women makes it unlikely to get any stories about deadbeat, douchebag husbands.
The Strut has enough women, you just don't know who they are. I don't think it matters if you're male or female; a douchebag spouse is a douchebag spouse
PS Mannybolone, you analyze errrrythang. If you knew the haste with which most of us tap out these replies, you probably wouldn't take the time to respond with all your "correct statistics."
Eh, I don't really care. I personally find marriage and divorce - as social practices - absolutely fascinating in ways that have nothing to do with my personal feelings about the practice/institution itself.
Also, given that you are 22, I think your views will likely have time to evolve. As you yourself point out, there's no need to resolve them, least of all at your age.
And while there may indeed be many female lurkers, the fact is, Strut is strikingly imbalanced in its voices.
This thread is the epitome of a "my personal experience validates and defines everything!" mentality.
Some marriages work, some don't.
Child custody and finances are always the toughest parts. Always.
Our legal system is quite unevolved with respect to all of it.
What this thread should really be about is how to evaluate and choose a divorce / family lawyer. Cause that is the real questiona at hand and not an easy one.
As an attorney I advise him to book an ocean cruise for the two of them. Be sure ahead of time that the cabin portholes are big enough to fit her shoulders through. Measure if you have to, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
As an attorney I advise him to book an ocean cruise for the two of them. Be sure ahead of time that the cabin portholes are big enough to fit her shoulders through. Measure if you have to, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
It will cost you a lot more time and money down the line to fix a fucked up divorce or custody settlement than it will to just hire an attorney now. Sell shit, get a credit card, borrow from friends or family...but do whatever you have to do to get a good attorney. It will pay of in the long run. Also, get someone who handles primarily family law and make sure they have malpractice insurance.
^This. I got completely hosed in mine, totaled my car last week and now because of her, my credit is shot so I can't finance a new vehicle. I wish I didn't settle for one of those DIY divorces.
but i got divorced about 18 months ago and made the biggest mistake of my life (after getting married in the first place), by not hiring my own lawyer, getting strung along by the ***** **** ex wife and her lawyer, and caving in to their demands. i was in no position to bargain though because she is foreign and i was in her country. basically i couldn't leave and move on with life if we were still married, so i had to fork out the cash. luckily we didn't have kids. if i had had my own lawyer i might have faired a little better, but it was worth it to get rid of her and be able to stop looking over my shoulder.
so really and truly, and from painful personal experience, hiring a lawyer is absolutely essential. i thought i could get the divorce on the cheap, but i was blindsided by the *****. with hindsight it would have been worth going into debt paying a lawyer rather than seeing the ex wife get the money. just definitely get the best lawyer you can
I can COMPLETELY relate to the catering to their demands part. Junk was ridiculous and I got screwed in the long run.
Comments
I find this really hard to believe.
According to US News, there are 220 undergraduate engineering programs in the U.S.
I believe there are are just under 200 accredited law schools.
These numbers only allow for a crude comparison. They do not--for example--factor in class size.
Nonetheless, there's no way the disparity is anywhere close to 30-to-1.
"first thing we do, let's kill the lawyers"
most ignorant post nominee.
It's called jokes, bro.
but i got divorced about 18 months ago and made the biggest mistake of my life (after getting married in the first place), by not hiring my own lawyer, getting strung along by the ***** **** ex wife and her lawyer, and caving in to their demands. i was in no position to bargain though because she is foreign and i was in her country. basically i couldn't leave and move on with life if we were still married, so i had to fork out the cash. luckily we didn't have kids. if i had had my own lawyer i might have faired a little better, but it was worth it to get rid of her and be able to stop looking over my shoulder.
so really and truly, and from painful personal experience, hiring a lawyer is absolutely essential. i thought i could get the divorce on the cheap, but i was blindsided by the *****. with hindsight it would have been worth going into debt paying a lawyer rather than seeing the ex wife get the money. just definitely get the best lawyer you can
I come from a super traditional family and I know my parents are going to start laying on the pressure to get married pretty thick when my brother and I get a little older. Their marriage hasn't been the happiest, but they're too conservative to divorce or separate. I hate the idea of getting married because you're supposed to and have always been a little prejudiced against my friends who chose to marry young.
Not always. I got divorced for $250.00 (The court filing fee) and did all the paperwork myself with help from a friend that works at the court house. My ex and I had no kids, did not own a house together and never had a shared/joint bank account or credit card accounts in joint names. Everything was always kept separate. The legal part of the divorce was very easy. She signed the paperwork and I did everything else. That said, I will never get married again and do not understand the point of being married in this day and age. All it does is cause mad drama.
i think my judgement is probably clouded from living in SE Asia, and the difficulites of immigration for one or the other. granted, that's not a good reason to get married, but it definitely influenced me. if i met someone from my own country i would probably now (with hindsight) agree with you.
Well, unfortunately, Strut's severe lack of women makes it unlikely to get any stories about deadbeat, douchebag husbands.
Not exactly.
For one thing, the divorce rate was never 50%. The highest it reached was around 40% and that was back in the 1970s; it's been declining since. It's still very high in comparison to other Western countries but the "1 in 2" stat was never very accurate and was based more around projections than supporting data. However, 50% plays better.
Second of all, a high divorce rate doesn't mean a lot when it comes to calculating any individual's odds if/when they got married. It's an aggregate, based on a massive, national number, but marriage odds fluctuate massively when you start to pick the data apart.
If both you and your intended are college educated, employed, and older than 25, the odds of a long-term successful marriage shoot up considerably. Part of the reason why America has uniquely high rates of divorce is because we also have uniquely high rates of marriage, including many couples that - based on age or economic stability - are likely to encounter a great deal more conflict than older, more financially secure couples.
I hear you. I'm not really a big proponent of marriage (though I am, mostly because I had a child with my partner and once that happens, getting married is such an afterthought). I think there are plenty of reasons why marriage may not be what a couple wants and I think that's totally cool.
At the same time, I don't understand the anti-marriage attitude among people who've never been married. The fact that marriages end in divorce isn't, to me, a rationale for not getting married. Most relationships end in break-ups; doesn't mean you shouldn't get into relationships! Obviously, the legal/financial complications change that but ultimately, married works for more people than it doesn't work for. It's as good (or bad) an experience as two people are willing to make of it. Americans, as a whole, put way too much emphasis on it but I don't think it's a useless or meaningless institution.
Whilst it is undoubtedly true there are many marriages that fail, I wouldnt let this dissuade you from considering the possibility of getting married. I have been with my now wife for 13 years, we were lucky enough to live together for 7 of those years with out being married and with out pressure from our parents about getting married. I am sure if you looked at the failed marriages that make up the bulk of the 50%, i would say that at least 90% of them you could see from a mile off they would not work, yet people just go down that path because they think it is what society expects from them. If you build a relationship from the start with trust and respect there really is not much that you can not over come, but if the relationship is built around aesthetics only/great sex only/ convenience or what ever then it is obviously going to take a whole bunch more work as these things are destined to fade over time. On the other hand marriage isn't that important really if you love some one, you don't need it officialized by an authority that doesn't know the 2 individuals from a bar of soap.
the above statement is in most simple form i could condense it into btw, so its a little light on details, but i am sure you get the idea.
The Strut has enough women, you just don't know who they are.
I don't think it matters if you're male or female; a douchebag spouse is a douchebag spouse
Eh, I don't really care. I personally find marriage and divorce - as social practices - absolutely fascinating in ways that have nothing to do with my personal feelings about the practice/institution itself.
Also, given that you are 22, I think your views will likely have time to evolve. As you yourself point out, there's no need to resolve them, least of all at your age.
And while there may indeed be many female lurkers, the fact is, Strut is strikingly imbalanced in its voices.
Some marriages work, some don't.
Child custody and finances are always the toughest parts. Always.
Our legal system is quite unevolved with respect to all of it.
What this thread should really be about is how to evaluate and choose a divorce / family lawyer. Cause that is the real questiona at hand and not an easy one.
PM me for further instructions.
If the portholes are too small, pack a cleaver.
^This. I got completely hosed in mine, totaled my car last week and now because of her, my credit is shot so I can't finance a new vehicle. I wish I didn't settle for one of those DIY divorces.
I can COMPLETELY relate to the catering to their demands part. Junk was ridiculous and I got screwed in the long run.
Dating in California might prove to be slim pickings for you then