The thing to keep in mind also though is that the creation of the freeway L.A. in the post-War years came at the cost of the extensive rail lines that once existed here. It's hard to believe, but L.A., like many urban centers, had a very extensive set of railcar lines all across the city. This is a map of the old "Red Car" system by Pacific Electric and it wasn't even the biggest rail line in the city:
Basically, the railways in L.A. fell victim to the heavy investments in freeway and automobile infrastructure that got pushed here beginning as early as the 1930s but really came in a boom during the suburbinization of L.A. post-WWII.
Ironically, most of the new railways are being built along old routes.
All very true here in Bmore as well. Basically, if we're extremely lucky we might have two new light-rail lines by 2030* which in conjunction with the existing light rail line and subway will cover about 1/3 of the area the trolley system covered in the 1950s. The heartbreaking thing is that you can still see remnants of the streetcar tracks all over town, and we even have a streetcar museum that takes tourists on a 200-feet ride on one of the old cars.
*not that I expect to still be living here in 2030...
Public Transport in Berlin is excellent... you can get anywhere 24/7.
Another area where most U.S. cities lag behind: how many of you can catch public transportation reliably after whatever hour your bars close?
Most cities this doesn't seem possible. I'm guessing the thinking is that ridership is likely to be low at 2, 3, or 4 in the morning -- and also that levels of belligerence, puke, and crime might be higher from drunk riders -- but if cities really want to get drunk drivers off the road, this seems like a no-brainer.
I regularly check people when I get offr the train.
Ditto. If you are stupid enough to think you 'own' the spot in front of the door, my man purse cracking you in the nuts will hopefully remind you that you own nothing. I save this, however, for males age 16-50. Older than that they get a pass. Women I just glare at when they pull this.
For the record, the money I saved using public transport in DC allows me to more easily afford my Toyota Corolla, which I love. Cars rule. It's driving them everyday to work that drives me nuts. And thankfully, in DC, I don't need to. Driving a car is the next best thing to being able to fly like Superman, IMO. Instant freedom.
Cars rule. It's driving them everyday to work that drives me nuts. And thankfully, in DC, I don't need to. Driving a car is the next best thing to being able to fly like Superman, IMO. Instant freedom.
Being stuck in a car during DC's hellish afternoon rush hour (roughly 3 pm to 8 pm, it seems) is about the furthest thing I can think of to instant freedom.
Public Transport in Berlin is excellent... you can get anywhere 24/7.
Another area where most U.S. cities lag behind: how many of you can catch public transportation reliably after whatever hour your bars close?
Most cities this doesn't seem possible. I'm guessing the thinking is that ridership is likely to be low at 2, 3, or 4 in the morning -- and also that levels of belligerence, puke, and crime might be higher from drunk riders -- but if cities really want to get drunk drivers off the road, this seems like a no-brainer.
that's why a lot of bars and clubs are open till 4 or 5 am in places like Chicago and New York and 2 am everywhere else. The late night public transportation is pretty damn good.
Wow, I'd heard about this but never seen a map of how extensive it was. I know the same was true in the East Bay, there used to be a streetcar line right down my street that would take you from Richmond to Oakland.
Public Transport in Berlin is excellent... you can get anywhere 24/7.
Another area where most U.S. cities lag behind: how many of you can catch public transportation reliably after whatever hour your bars close?
Most cities this doesn't seem possible. I'm guessing the thinking is that ridership is likely to be low at 2, 3, or 4 in the morning -- and also that levels of belligerence, puke, and crime might be higher from drunk riders -- but if cities really want to get drunk drivers off the road, this seems like a no-brainer.
that's why a lot of bars and clubs are open till 4 or 5 am in places like Chicago and New York and 2 am everywhere else. The late night public transportation is pretty damn good.
speaking of transpo daze whens that caddy of yours commin to the southside so we can get crunk up in this beeeeatch...
Not to get all conspiracy theorist but as someone who grew up in a town basically created around the fortune of the Huntingtons (who ran THE major railway line, not Pac Elec though, in Los Angeles), I heard that they were paid off by various auto-related lobbies to let the railways die so they could pave the way - literally - for more auto sales and freeway development and suburban housing growth.
Wow, I'd heard about this but never seen a map of how extensive it was. I know the same was true in the East Bay, there used to be a streetcar line right down my street that would take you from Richmond to Oakland.
Not to get all conspiracy theorist but as someone who grew up in a town basically created around the fortune of the Huntingtons (who ran THE major railway line, not Pac Elec though, in Los Angeles), I heard that they were paid off by various auto-related lobbies to let the railways die so they could pave the way - literally - for more auto sales and freeway development and suburban housing growth.
I don't know about the situation in LA, but nationwide this process is documented fact, not conspiracy theory. In Baltimore, the streetcar system was bought by private hands connected to tire moguls (I believe specifically it might've been Goodyear, but I'd have to double-check on that) who then dismantled the whole thing after a few years of pretending to operate it in good faith.
Not to get all conspiracy theorist but as someone who grew up in a town basically created around the fortune of the Huntingtons (who ran THE major railway line, not Pac Elec though, in Los Angeles), I heard that they were paid off by various auto-related lobbies to let the railways die so they could pave the way - literally - for more auto sales and freeway development and suburban housing growth.
I don't know about the situation in LA, but nationwide this process is documented fact, not conspiracy theory. In Baltimore, the streetcar system was bought by private hands connected to tire moguls (I believe specifically it might've been Goodyear, but I'd have to double-check on that) who then dismantled the whole thing after a few years of pretending to operate it in good faith.
I think one of the major proponents against rail transit in the early 1900's was standard oil, basically a large conglomerate that was dissolved by the supreme court, later becoming a bunch of subsidaries like exxon mobil and shell. If i remember correctly there were plans for a nationwide rail system that they had nixed in order to build the american highway system.
Not to get all conspiracy theorist but as someone who grew up in a town basically created around the fortune of the Huntingtons (who ran THE major railway line, not Pac Elec though, in Los Angeles), I heard that they were paid off by various auto-related lobbies to let the railways die so they could pave the way - literally - for more auto sales and freeway development and suburban housing growth.
I don't know about the situation in LA, but nationwide this process is documented fact, not conspiracy theory. In Baltimore, the streetcar system was bought by private hands connected to tire moguls (I believe specifically it might've been Goodyear, but I'd have to double-check on that) who then dismantled the whole thing after a few years of pretending to operate it in good faith.
I think one of the major proponents against rail transit in the early 1900's was standard oil, basically a large conglomerate that was dissolved by the supreme court, later becoming a bunch of subsidaries like exxon mobil and shell. If i remember correctly there were plans for a nationwide rail system that they had nixed in order to build the american highway system.
Yeah, I was surprised to hear that in Baltimore, at least, it was Big Tire more than Big Oil who dismantled the streetcars. But it makes sense that they'd both be involved given their common interest in accelerating suburbia, pollution, the 4-cars-per-garage mentality, etc etc.
Cars rule. It's driving them everyday to work that drives me nuts. And thankfully, in DC, I don't need to. Driving a car is the next best thing to being able to fly like Superman, IMO. Instant freedom.
Being stuck in a car during DC's hellish afternoon rush hour (roughly 3 pm to 8 pm, it seems) is about the furthest thing I can think of to instant freedom.
Totally true, when that happens it SUCKS. That's why one must plan, and have a decent radio/CD/iPod. I once tried to get from DC to Richmond to see Fatback, and made the mistake of leaving at 3pm. 5 hours later I was at his house. I was a frazzled wreck. I can't blame it on the cars, I blame it on VIRGINIA, which I make a point of driving in only when I must.
I still love to drive aimlessly as much as possible. Very freeing.
Further to Odub's post on the old rail system within LA, Melbourne has also had rail lines removed - most notably circular ones which linked parts of the the radial network. These lines were removed 70-90 years ago, with the land since being developed for housing and the like. Today circular bus routes are in the process of being introduced to replicate what was once there. I think that the reasons were probaly more to do with poor patronage at the time though than opportunistic behaviour by the oil/automotive industries.
I have major gripes with the CTA in Chicago right now. ^as per what luck said, everybody thinks its amazing until you have to ride it everyday during rush hour with your face in someones armpit because the train only comes once every 25 minutes. I hear it depends on what line youre on too, which makes sense with all the yuppies moving from red line territory to wicker park the train just hasnt caught up with the influx of assholes. Talking about raising rates again too, which everyone knows aint gonna fix shit. Buses here are random at best.
Depends on the line, but I take the bus. Much better. I ride the CTA every day for $75/month. It's a gigantic savings over a car and the costs associated with it. The Blue Line should be better now that the Damen-to-Lake slow zones are eliminated.
What we really need are those LED displays like in Portland that let commuters know when the next bus/train is coming.
I still love to drive aimlessly as much as possible. Very freeing.
I'll agree with that. My one regret about not owning a car is that sometimes music sounds best when you're out on the highway.
My girlfriend signed up for the flexcar (hybrid car rental by the hour or day) program and on the rare occassions when we use it to get out of town it enhancesboth the love of music on the highway and the sense of freedom of having your own wheels.
The plusses of then dropping the car off and not thinking about it again are almost too many to name: no gas costs to worry about, no car insurance bills, no repairs, no parking tickets, no car theft/vandalism, no accidents, etc etc.
Does anyone else think that public transportation use should be on the rise? With gas prices steadily increasing, this seems like the time that people should consider forgoing the "freedom" of their cars. I don't know if its really happening, but it makes sense to me.
Does anyone else think that public transportation use should be on the rise? With gas prices steadily increasing, this seems like the time that people should consider forgoing the "freedom" of their cars. I don't know if its really happening, but it makes sense to me.
I agree that this should be happening -- both in the sense that I expect it is, and if it isn't people should start making the change if and when they can.
The larger issue for me is that there's a shift in thinking on the part of the goverment to prioritize funding of public transport alongside, or even instead of, new highways and parking garages that encourage a drive-everywhere mentality; in many areas, people aren't going to use existing servives unless they're expanded, improved, or even just properly maintained.
This would mean federal underwriting of subway and light-rail construction, more federal subsidies for Amtrak to both extend service and bring prices down, etc.
It seems feasible -- there's a movement towards "green building" that's getting a lot of attention here in Baltimore, where we're usually 10-30 years behind the times. Seems like public transport and green building as concepts should go hand in hand.
Comments
All very true here in Bmore as well. Basically, if we're extremely lucky we might have two new light-rail lines by 2030* which in conjunction with the existing light rail line and subway will cover about 1/3 of the area the trolley system covered in the 1950s. The heartbreaking thing is that you can still see remnants of the streetcar tracks all over town, and we even have a streetcar museum that takes tourists on a 200-feet ride on one of the old cars.
*not that I expect to still be living here in 2030...
Another area where most U.S. cities lag behind: how many of you can catch public transportation reliably after whatever hour your bars close?
Most cities this doesn't seem possible. I'm guessing the thinking is that ridership is likely to be low at 2, 3, or 4 in the morning -- and also that levels of belligerence, puke, and crime might be higher from drunk riders -- but if cities really want to get drunk drivers off the road, this seems like a no-brainer.
Ditto. If you are stupid enough to think you 'own' the spot in front of the door, my man purse cracking you in the nuts will hopefully remind you that you own nothing. I save this, however, for males age 16-50. Older than that they get a pass. Women I just glare at when they pull this.
For the record, the money I saved using public transport in DC allows me to more easily afford my Toyota Corolla, which I love. Cars rule. It's driving them everyday to work that drives me nuts. And thankfully, in DC, I don't need to. Driving a car is the next best thing to being able to fly like Superman, IMO. Instant freedom.
Being stuck in a car during DC's hellish afternoon rush hour (roughly 3 pm to 8 pm, it seems) is about the furthest thing I can think of to instant freedom.
that's why a lot of bars and clubs are open till 4 or 5 am in places like Chicago and New York and 2 am everywhere else. The late night public transportation is pretty damn good.
Wow, I'd heard about this but never seen a map of how extensive it was. I know the same was true in the East Bay, there used to be a streetcar line right down my street that would take you from Richmond to Oakland.
soon mang, I'm outski in a month. holler
I don't know about the situation in LA, but nationwide this process is documented fact, not conspiracy theory. In Baltimore, the streetcar system was bought by private hands connected to tire moguls (I believe specifically it might've been Goodyear, but I'd have to double-check on that) who then dismantled the whole thing after a few years of pretending to operate it in good faith.
I think one of the major proponents against rail transit in the early 1900's was standard oil, basically a large conglomerate that was dissolved by the supreme court, later becoming a bunch of subsidaries like exxon mobil and shell. If i remember correctly there were plans for a nationwide rail system that they had nixed in order to build the american highway system.
Yeah, I was surprised to hear that in Baltimore, at least, it was Big Tire more than Big Oil who dismantled the streetcars. But it makes sense that they'd both be involved given their common interest in accelerating suburbia, pollution, the 4-cars-per-garage mentality, etc etc.
Totally true, when that happens it SUCKS. That's why one must plan, and have a decent radio/CD/iPod. I once tried to get from DC to Richmond to see Fatback, and made the mistake of leaving at 3pm. 5 hours later I was at his house. I was a frazzled wreck. I can't blame it on the cars, I blame it on VIRGINIA, which I make a point of driving in only when I must.
I still love to drive aimlessly as much as possible. Very freeing.
Depends on the line, but I take the bus. Much better. I ride the CTA every day for $75/month. It's a gigantic savings over a car and the costs associated with it.
The Blue Line should be better now that the Damen-to-Lake slow zones are eliminated.
What we really need are those LED displays like in Portland that let commuters know when the next bus/train is coming.
I'll agree with that. My one regret about not owning a car is that sometimes music sounds best when you're out on the highway.
My girlfriend signed up for the flexcar (hybrid car rental by the hour or day) program and on the rare occassions when we use it to get out of town it enhancesboth the love of music on the highway and the sense of freedom of having your own wheels.
The plusses of then dropping the car off and not thinking about it again are almost too many to name: no gas costs to worry about, no car insurance bills, no repairs, no parking tickets, no car theft/vandalism, no accidents, etc etc.
I agree that this should be happening -- both in the sense that I expect it is, and if it isn't people should start making the change if and when they can.
The larger issue for me is that there's a shift in thinking on the part of the goverment to prioritize funding of public transport alongside, or even instead of, new highways and parking garages that encourage a drive-everywhere mentality; in many areas, people aren't going to use existing servives unless they're expanded, improved, or even just properly maintained.
This would mean federal underwriting of subway and light-rail construction, more federal subsidies for Amtrak to both extend service and bring prices down, etc.
It seems feasible -- there's a movement towards "green building" that's getting a lot of attention here in Baltimore, where we're usually 10-30 years behind the times. Seems like public transport and green building as concepts should go hand in hand.