I can name churches in the U.S. that accept and even celebrate homosexuality. Is there an Islamic equivilent??
Enjoy, with my compliments.
Damn.....what Mosque is THAT!!??
Yo,
My slavic languages are a little rusty, but I think this dude is Bulgarian. Just thought it was a good time to introduce the board to the magic that is "Azis".
...and I think I've presented more facts and logic than anyone on the other side
Yet, you are the only one who sees yourself as being "on a side"
... as usual.
There are two sides to every argument...that's a fact.
No, it's not; that is only true of arguments about the simplest of issues.
In more nuanced discussions--a concept obviously foreign to you--there are points of agreement, points of disagreement, and plenty of points in between.
The athiests I have met(and am related to) are just as intolerant of anything outside their scope of belief(or non-belief) as any organized religion.
I guess the difference (in my experience) is that athiests tend to be intolerant of people whose belief systems are fucked up (in their opinion), whereas most major organized religions judge people based on their sex, sexual orientation, etc.
While I understand your analogy, I have a hard time comparing sports to life and death issues.
If someone was to go into the basketball thread and bring up the NFL and someone's reaction was that punishment in one sport was OK, but in another it was unacceptable, that would indeed be similar hypocrisy.
Religious Intolerance is Religious Intolerance and hatred towards a group of people is hatred regardless of how old or how indoctrinated that hatred is, plain and simple.
I didn't expect folks to just bring up other comparisons to Falwell on their own, I did so on purpose because I dislike the double standards perpetuated here.[/b]
According to your argument, people are hypocrites if they do not make[/b] these comparisons whether they are related or not. That is the "double standard" that you have created in your argument. The fact that people did not bring up Islam is being hypocritical. Therefore no one bringing up the NFL is also hypocritcal. You have to criticize all religions and all sports otherwise you can't criticize any. Either that or your just want to argue about Islam, which I think, given your past comments on it, is more your point.
...and I think I've presented more facts and logic than anyone on the other side
Yet, you are the only one who sees yourself as being "on a side"
... as usual.
There are two sides to every argument...that's a fact.
No, it's not; that is only true of arguments about the simplest of issues.
In more nuanced discussions--a concept obviously foreign to you--there are points of agreement, points of disagreement, and plenty of points in between.
Here's an example Rock. Faux has said the suspension of Stoudamire was based upon a stupid rule set up by the NBA. Why hasn't he also criticized the suspension of those NFL players? MLB might also suspend Barry Bonds over steroid use, is that also a stupid ruling? The NHL suspended some players during the season, Faux didn't comment on those. He is a hypocrite then.
And if you feel that sports and life and death issues are a bad comparison because they seem unrelated than you might actually undestand why your comparison doesn't work, because they are unrelated as well.
I've heard from mutual friends that you are, in real life, actually a pretty good dude and I can only assume that this might, in fact, be true. But on this board, you have distinguished yourself for carrying yourself not unlike another well-known Texan, currently presiding in the White House, in terms of being incredibly and unbearably close-minded, arrogant and yet, considerably oblivious...which only makes it all the harder to want to engage you in anything resembling intelligent, rational adult conversation.
That some very smart and sincere people on this board actually deign to address your queries - such as the ridiculous Falwell = all of Islam debate - is an act of such extraordinary generosity, that the only thing I consider more frustrating than your stubborness and irrationality is that good people are wasting their time on someone who clearly doesn't give a fuck about anything besides the sound of your own voice.
I don't have a huge beef with your politics; we actually see eye to eye on a few issues - but you simply have no regard or care or interest in a viewpoint other than whatever polemic you're trying to force on everyone no matter how many people gently try to point out to you, "you're not making any sense."
So why should I waste my time on trying to share a viewpoint or knowledge when I know that, unless it conforms to your warped, mind garden perspective, you'll either ignore it or find a way to completely mangle it?
God knows I don't agree with the opinions of a lot of folks around here but most of them seem capable of both 1) acknowledging what they don't know and 2) not acting like either a petulant child or bloodied martyr when people disagree with them.
Logic and facts don't apply to Rich.
ODub, No disrespect but you do realize that your facts and logic consisted of a link to a book by Christopher Hitchins and nothing more.......right?
Rock, I don???t expect you to make these comparisons, but there are actually lots of countries around the world that are NOT Muslim that have anti-gay laws. In fact, there are Muslim countries that have secular governments that ALSO have anti-homosexual laws. I think it???s a ???double standard??? to only criticize religious bigotry against gays and not mention the secular bigotry as well.
Many of these countries have Muslim communities, but all of them have secular governments. If you can???t tell, but almost EVERY African country has anti-gay laws and punishments, whether they have Muslims or not, and even though they have secular governments. About half of Asia also, including India, which is the 2nd largest populated country in the world, has anti-gay laws. There are also many countries in the Caribbean that are Christian or Catholic that also have anti-gay laws and secular governments
AFRICAN COUNTRIES: Algeria ??? secular Muslim country ???can be fined or jailed Angola ??? can be put in labor cants Benin ??? can be put in prison Botswana ???can be put in prison Cameroon ??? can be put in prison Djibouti ??? has anti-gay laws Eritrea ??? can be put in prison Ethiopia ???can be put in prison Gambia ??? can be put in prison Ghana ??? can be put in prison Guinea ??? can be put in prison Guinea Bissau ??? labor camps Kenya ??? can be imprisoned Lesotho ??? has anti-gay laws Liberia ??? can be fined Libya ??? can be fined or imprisoned Malawi ??? can be imprisoned Mauritania ??? can get death penalty Mauritius ??? can be imprisoned Mozambique ??? can get labor camp Nigeria ??? can be fined, imprisoned, death penalty Sao Tome ??? can be put into labor camps Senegal ??? prison Seychelles ??? anti-gay laws Sierra Leone ??? life in prison Somalia ??? Death or prison Sudan ??? prison or death Swaziland ??? prison or fine Tanazania ??? Life in prison Togo ??? prison Tunisia ??? prison Uganda ??? fine or life in prison Zambia ??? fine or prison Zimbabwe ??? fine or prison
ASIAN COUNTRIES: Bahrain ??? fine or prison Bangladesh ??? prison or life Bhutan ??? anti-gay lawss Brunei ??? fine or prison Chechnya ??? caning or death India ??? Life or prison Iran ??? death Kuwait ??? fine or jail Lebanon ??? fine or jail Malaysia ??? fine or jail Maldives ??? fine or jail Burma ??? life or prison Nepal ??? fine or jail Oman ??? fine or jail Pakistan ??? life or prison Qatar ??? prison Singapore ??? life or prison Sri Lanka ??? Prison or fine Syria ??? prison or fine UAE ??? death Uzbekistan ??? fine or prison Yemen ??? death or flogging
EUROPEAN COUNTRIES: Turkey ??? prison
AMERICAS: Antigua and Barbuda ??? prison Barbados ??? Life Belize ??? prison Dominica ??? prison Grenada ??? prison Jamaica ??? prison Nicaragua ??? jail Saint Kitts ??? prison Saint Lucia ??? prison St. Vincent ??? fine or prison Trinidad & Tobago ??? fine or prison Guyana ??? life
And Turkey, Indonesia, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq are Muslim countries that have secular governments but no anti-gay laws
If you can't tell from the list Rock, it's actually not Islam or even religion that's behind anti-homosexuality in the world, it's about 1/2 of the world and the majority of the secular governments in the world. It's not religion then, but secularism that we should be concerned about fighting to end homophobia!
This thread began with people celebrating the death of a Religious Leader so hateful and evil that if it were up to him and his followers, there would be laws making homosexuality illegal and punishable by law.
And in the same thread...
Some of the same people...
Are defending an entirely different religion that has already put these Falwellian laws into effect in every country that they are in power and have excuted 1,000's of people under said laws.
Are defending an entirely different religion that has already put these Falwellian laws into effect in every country that they are in power and have excuted 1,000's of people under said laws.
This post is oddly familiar... I almost feel as if I've seen it several dozen times before.
I've presented more facts and logic than anyone on the other side
4 years on this board has taught me that facts and logic are secondary in the thought process of many a strutter. And it's the same dudes, going off on tangents about nothing.
Faux, you are like Spike Lee at a Knicks game. Stop it dude.
This is so typical. Even Larry Flint could find something nice to say, but I didn't really expect anything less from you ass-clowns.
I would also like to rub your nose in the fact, that if it weren't for the Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade, the Fundamentalist Religious Right would never, NEVER[/b] have become the political force that it has. If the Court had left well-enough alone, the State abortion laws, which had been trending toward liberalization anyway, would have probably continued to where they are at today. But, instead, the Court's fudging the law in PP v. Casey and Roe electrified the religious-right and lead to the election of the last three Republican Presidents.
Choke on that, bitches.
I love this argument. If the Supreme Court hadn't defended an individual's right to privacy under the Due Process clause, the bigots on the religious right would never have had to fight against said defense of an individual's right to privacy under the Due Process clause. Brilliant.
The Due Process Clause protects fundamental rights, of which abortion is not one. The surest way to dilute or expand Constitutional meaning is the substitution of the Constitution's language with words more or less flexible in meaning. Best illustrated by the substitution of "right to privacy" for the actual Fourth Amendment guarantee against "unreasonable search and seizure."
oh man. do you have ANY clue what you're talking about?
you do realize there are two Due Process Clauses, right? you do realize neither one is contained in the 4th Amendment, right? you do realize the Roe decision, and by extension the Casey decision, found a right to privacy protection in the due process clause of the 14th Amendment , right? you do realize that you have totally conflated this right to privacy with the "reasonable expectation of privacy" of fourth amendment jurisprudence, right? you do realize you should shut the fuck up now, right?
Non-economic substantive due process of the 14th Amendment applies those rights contained in the Bill of Rights, or if unenumerated then those fundamental in nature, to the States. In order to apply a right to abortion to the states through the 14th Amendment, you have to determine it to be either a fundamental right or in the Bill of Rights. In Roe, Blackmun premised the right to choose, in part on the penumbras analysis of Griswold to avoid the discredited analysis of the Lochner era. In Griswold the right was considered to be found in the penumbras of, among others, the 4th Amendment.
summer's here. you guys are so in need of a bluebook.
I don't know a whole lot of things, but I know this: You fight fire with water.
We all seem to be in full accord on the following point: Jerry Falwell at times espoused hate couched in the name of his personal religion towards millions of people in this country that he did not agree with. Let's let this spirit of hate die with him and move on.
This thread began with people celebrating the death of a Religious Leader so hateful and evil that if it were up to him and his followers, there would be laws making homosexuality illegal and punishable by law.
And in the same thread...
Some of the same people...
Are defending an entirely different religion that has already put these Falwellian laws into effect in every country that they are in power and have excuted 1,000's of people under said laws.
Slice it and dice it anyway you want.....
That's some amazing shit.
unfucking believable that you would post this after the last several posts motown made
That some very smart and sincere people on this board actually deign to address your queries - such as the ridiculous Falwell = all of Islam debate - is an act of such extraordinary generosity, that the only thing I consider more frustrating than your stubborness and irrationality is that good people are wasting their time on someone who clearly doesn't give a fuck about anything besides the sound of your own voice.
dude O-dub c'mon. the Strut is all about people engaging stupid people in stupid arguments. didn't I see you wasting your time in the inane "Philly Stress" thread just today?
don't pretend like you are doing anyone a favor by engaging them in argument. some of y'all actually sound a little pathetic debating Rich all day and then turning around and saying you shouldn't even be wasting your time. you obviously thought he and his argument were worth something or the thread wouldn't be this long.
there's a lot of bullshit gets talked about/debated/argued about on the strut. the list of stupid/ignorant topics/opinions on this board is endless. and even if you happened to totally disagree with Rich's politics, he ranks nowhere near the top of that list.
Thanks to A++ for posting that Hitchens clip. Ginzu needs to hire that guy for its informercials cause he slices and dices like no other. Whew, just full blast for the American little dudes. Loving it.
This thread began with people celebrating the death of a Religious Leader so hateful and evil that if it were up to him and his followers, there would be laws making homosexuality illegal and punishable by law.
And in the same thread...
Some of the same people...
Are defending an entirely different religion that has already put these Falwellian laws into effect in every country that they are in power and have excuted 1,000's of people under said laws.
Slice it and dice it anyway you want.....
That's some amazing shit.
unfucking believable that you would post this after the last several posts motown made
I mean how difficult is it to admit that Fallwell does not = Islam?
It is clear that Fallwell does not = Christianity...
Shouldn't the parallel apply?
Rich you are making yourself out to be a bigot and I know you are not that.
it's pitiful the way yall feel the need to pack hunt a broken down old retard like rockadelic.
It is incredibly obvious that liberals feel much more comfortable denigrating christians than they do muslims. This largely owing to islam being mentally associated with ethnic minorities.
it's pitiful the way yall feel the need to pack hunt a broken down old retard like rockadelic.
It is incredibly obvious that liberals feel much more comfortable denigrating christians than they do muslims. This largely owing to islam being mentally associated with ethnic minorities.
No, it's because we live in a predominantly Christian culture and feel better qualified to comment on the contradictions and hypocrisies of the fundamentalists in our midst.
Comments
Yo,
My slavic languages are a little rusty, but I think this dude is Bulgarian. Just thought it was a good time to introduce the board to the magic that is "Azis".
Yet, you are the only one who sees yourself as being "on a side"
... as usual.
There are two sides to every argument...that's a fact.
ODub,
No disrespect but you do realize that your facts and logic consisted of a link to a book by Christopher Hitchins and nothing more.......right?
what do you mean "out there"? he is def not a conspiracy theory nut
take your medication
put your drool cup back on
sit back down in your wheelchair
and shut the fuck up
redneck psych drool rarer
No, it's not; that is only true of arguments about the simplest of issues.
In more nuanced discussions--a concept obviously foreign to you--there are points of agreement, points of disagreement, and plenty of points in between.
Nor a straight up asshole like this little jerk-off Kala.
(Don't bother PM'ing me with your immature bullshit)
Done.
I guess the difference (in my experience) is that athiests tend to be intolerant of people whose belief systems are fucked up (in their opinion), whereas most major organized religions judge people based on their sex, sexual orientation, etc.
According to your argument, people are hypocrites if they do not make[/b] these comparisons whether they are related or not. That is the "double standard" that you have created in your argument. The fact that people did not bring up Islam is being hypocritical. Therefore no one bringing up the NFL is also hypocritcal. You have to criticize all religions and all sports otherwise you can't criticize any. Either that or your just want to argue about Islam, which I think, given your past comments on it, is more your point.
Here's an example Rock. Faux has said the suspension of Stoudamire was based upon a stupid rule set up by the NBA. Why hasn't he also criticized the suspension of those NFL players? MLB might also suspend Barry Bonds over steroid use, is that also a stupid ruling? The NHL suspended some players during the season, Faux didn't comment on those. He is a hypocrite then.
And if you feel that sports and life and death issues are a bad comparison because they seem unrelated than you might actually undestand why your comparison doesn't work, because they are unrelated as well.
I've heard from mutual friends that you are, in real life, actually a pretty good dude and I can only assume that this might, in fact, be true. But on this board, you have distinguished yourself for carrying yourself not unlike another well-known Texan, currently presiding in the White House, in terms of being incredibly and unbearably close-minded, arrogant and yet, considerably oblivious...which only makes it all the harder to want to engage you in anything resembling intelligent, rational adult conversation.
That some very smart and sincere people on this board actually deign to address your queries - such as the ridiculous Falwell = all of Islam debate - is an act of such extraordinary generosity, that the only thing I consider more frustrating than your stubborness and irrationality is that good people are wasting their time on someone who clearly doesn't give a fuck about anything besides the sound of your own voice.
I don't have a huge beef with your politics; we actually see eye to eye on a few issues - but you simply have no regard or care or interest in a viewpoint other than whatever polemic you're trying to force on everyone no matter how many people gently try to point out to you, "you're not making any sense."
So why should I waste my time on trying to share a viewpoint or knowledge when I know that, unless it conforms to your warped, mind garden perspective, you'll either ignore it or find a way to completely mangle it?
God knows I don't agree with the opinions of a lot of folks around here but most of them seem capable of both 1) acknowledging what they don't know and 2) not acting like either a petulant child or bloodied martyr when people disagree with them.
Many of these countries have Muslim communities, but all of them have secular governments. If you can???t tell, but almost EVERY African country has anti-gay laws and punishments, whether they have Muslims or not, and even though they have secular governments. About half of Asia also, including India, which is the 2nd largest populated country in the world, has anti-gay laws. There are also many countries in the Caribbean that are Christian or Catholic that also have anti-gay laws and secular governments
AFRICAN COUNTRIES:
Algeria ??? secular Muslim country ???can be fined or jailed
Angola ??? can be put in labor cants
Benin ??? can be put in prison
Botswana ???can be put in prison
Cameroon ??? can be put in prison
Djibouti ??? has anti-gay laws
Eritrea ??? can be put in prison
Ethiopia ???can be put in prison
Gambia ??? can be put in prison
Ghana ??? can be put in prison
Guinea ??? can be put in prison
Guinea Bissau ??? labor camps
Kenya ??? can be imprisoned
Lesotho ??? has anti-gay laws
Liberia ??? can be fined
Libya ??? can be fined or imprisoned
Malawi ??? can be imprisoned
Mauritania ??? can get death penalty
Mauritius ??? can be imprisoned
Mozambique ??? can get labor camp
Nigeria ??? can be fined, imprisoned, death penalty
Sao Tome ??? can be put into labor camps
Senegal ??? prison
Seychelles ??? anti-gay laws
Sierra Leone ??? life in prison
Somalia ??? Death or prison
Sudan ??? prison or death
Swaziland ??? prison or fine
Tanazania ??? Life in prison
Togo ??? prison
Tunisia ??? prison
Uganda ??? fine or life in prison
Zambia ??? fine or prison
Zimbabwe ??? fine or prison
ASIAN COUNTRIES:
Bahrain ??? fine or prison
Bangladesh ??? prison or life
Bhutan ??? anti-gay lawss
Brunei ??? fine or prison
Chechnya ??? caning or death
India ??? Life or prison
Iran ??? death
Kuwait ??? fine or jail
Lebanon ??? fine or jail
Malaysia ??? fine or jail
Maldives ??? fine or jail
Burma ??? life or prison
Nepal ??? fine or jail
Oman ??? fine or jail
Pakistan ??? life or prison
Qatar ??? prison
Singapore ??? life or prison
Sri Lanka ??? Prison or fine
Syria ??? prison or fine
UAE ??? death
Uzbekistan ??? fine or prison
Yemen ??? death or flogging
EUROPEAN COUNTRIES:
Turkey ??? prison
AMERICAS:
Antigua and Barbuda ??? prison
Barbados ??? Life
Belize ??? prison
Dominica ??? prison
Grenada ??? prison
Jamaica ??? prison
Nicaragua ??? jail
Saint Kitts ??? prison
Saint Lucia ??? prison
St. Vincent ??? fine or prison
Trinidad & Tobago ??? fine or prison
Guyana ??? life
And Turkey, Indonesia, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq are Muslim countries that have secular governments but no anti-gay laws
And in the same thread...
Some of the same people...
Are defending an entirely different religion that has already put these Falwellian laws into effect in every country that they are in power and have excuted 1,000's of people under said laws.
Slice it and dice it anyway you want.....
That's some amazing shit.
This post is oddly familiar... I almost feel as if I've seen it several dozen times before.
Here's one you never seen before...
Hate is always black and white
Defending hate is always gray.
4 years on this board has taught me that facts and logic are secondary in the thought process of many a strutter. And it's the same dudes, going off on tangents about nothing.
Faux, you are like Spike Lee at a Knicks game. Stop it dude.
summer's here. you guys are so in need of a bluebook.
We all seem to be in full accord on the following point: Jerry Falwell at times espoused hate couched in the name of his personal religion towards millions of people in this country that he did not agree with. Let's let this spirit of hate die with him and move on.
That's it.
unfucking believable that you would post this after the last several posts motown made
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."
dude O-dub c'mon. the Strut is all about people engaging stupid people in stupid arguments. didn't I see you wasting your time in the inane "Philly Stress" thread just today?
don't pretend like you are doing anyone a favor by engaging them in argument. some of y'all actually sound a little pathetic debating Rich all day and then turning around and saying you shouldn't even be wasting your time. you obviously thought he and his argument were worth something or the thread wouldn't be this long.
there's a lot of bullshit gets talked about/debated/argued about on the strut. the list of stupid/ignorant topics/opinions on this board is endless. and even if you happened to totally disagree with Rich's politics, he ranks nowhere near the top of that list.
You gotta give credit where credit is due. Some dudes are great at turning nothing into something. Or turning something into nothing.
I mean how difficult is it to admit that Fallwell does not = Islam?
It is clear that Fallwell does not = Christianity...
Shouldn't the parallel apply?
Rich you are making yourself out to be a bigot and I know you are not that.
It is incredibly obvious that liberals feel much more comfortable denigrating christians than they do muslims. This largely owing to islam being mentally associated with ethnic minorities.
No, it's because we live in a predominantly Christian culture and feel better qualified to comment on the contradictions and hypocrisies of the fundamentalists in our midst.