Also big ups to Thes on dropping some deep wisdom. Makes me appreciate even more, when labels offer a digital download with new vinyl. Still, I think the packaging and having a copy that will undoubtedly last longer than any computer or hard drive (which, lets admit, will only last 4-5 years in most cases) is enough justification to purchase new vinyl.
What do people think about the direct to disc recording method? Is it even practical for most live recording sessions? I know Quantic and Alice Russel released a 45 using that technique last year. It sounded pretty boss IMO.
Oh hey dude! Go ahead and expand on that gatortoof/blueberry pancakes/ valuable poster!
the quality of message boards is down because the people have been quarentined and the buckets of lead in their heads have made the pressing plant backed up with orders! this has made the quality of vinyl poor and the only person who can save us is Thes One and his boy Len. They do the best word, by from the label. Oh yeah and Bernie Grundman.
Brain Drain:
There is pretty much only 1 living lathe technician left in LA, my homeboy Len who is probably late 60's, early 70s. There is not anyone currently apprenticing underneath him or learning his trade. So what happens when Len passes? What happens to this trade which has not been modernized and still operates on Lathes which, at their latest VMS-80, stopped production in the early 80s? The people who know how to wind heads, repair preview systems, etc. are retiring and dying.
Brain Drain:
There is pretty much only 1 living lathe technician left in LA, my homeboy Len who is probably late 60's, early 70s. There is not anyone currently apprenticing underneath him or learning his trade. So what happens when Len passes? What happens to this trade which has not been modernized and still operates on Lathes which, at their latest VMS-80, stopped production in the early 80s? The people who know how to wind heads, repair preview systems, etc. are retiring and dying.
I can only echo the praise for this great thread. I did some spring cleaning the other day - got rid of records in order to get more records. One of the records I got rid of was the 2 LP repress of Trees On the shore, an album I really love but I've only ever had on cd. Bought the vinyl reissue a year or so ago, and it just sounded flat, no warmth. I compared it to the cd (an old cheap looking issue) and the cd blew it away, on my not-at-all-audiophile system. That reissue lp also included another lp with the tracks remastered/mixed by the band - that sounded even worse. That was an eye-opener for me, I thought that a new "deluxe" LP would sound better than a stock cd issue, but not in this case.
And yeah, the OG LP I'm sure sounds even better. Some day...
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I can do without all the double vinyl and elaborate gatefolds and colored vinyl, all obviously done in order to drive the price of an album up from $12 to $30. Just go back to the basic format already, thank you very much.
I can do without all the double vinyl and elaborate gatefolds and colored vinyl, all obviously done in order to drive the price of an album up from $12 to $30. Just go back to the basic format already, thank you very much.
I think a lot of labels/artists are doing this on purpose. Fans can buy the album on iTunes for $9.99, and they figure the fans that want physical copies want all the bells and whistles included. I don't think it's strictly a money grab, but genuinely wanting to deliver more to their fans.
But yeah. It just means $30 albums for the casual listeners / non-stans.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
BeatChemist said:
HarveyCanal said:
I can do without all the double vinyl and elaborate gatefolds and colored vinyl, all obviously done in order to drive the price of an album up from $12 to $30. Just go back to the basic format already, thank you very much.
I think a lot of labels/artists are doing this on purpose. Fans can buy the album on iTunes for $9.99, and they figure the fans that want physical copies want all the bells and whistles included. I don't think it's strictly a money grab, but genuinely wanting to deliver more to their fans.
But yeah. It just means $30 albums for the casual listeners / non-stans.
They should separately sell the album and then an artbook on the album, because I don't want to pay for both when I only want the album.
Damn. I just got notification for the new David Lynch LP release. $30 for the standard double LP and $40 for the limited to 500 version. $44.25 with shipping to be exact. I think labels are trying to beat the scalper/flippers to the punch.
The latest Beach Fossils record had a limited to 400 edition. I think practically every one of them was sold on eBay for at least twice the purchase price.
Amok - Atoms for peace double LP? I think it was like $59 with shipping from Europe.
I can do without all the double vinyl and elaborate gatefolds and colored vinyl, all obviously done in order to drive the price of an album up from $12 to $30. Just go back to the basic format already, thank you very much.
I think a lot of labels/artists are doing this on purpose. Fans can buy the album on iTunes for $9.99, and they figure the fans that want physical copies want all the bells and whistles included. I don't think it's strictly a money grab, but genuinely wanting to deliver more to their fans.
I agree, but it can get pretty misguided. There's a fine line between delivering a worthwhile tangible experience and flat out overkill. Actually, the line isn't that fine sometimes. I've definitely seen plenty of marginal titles get 'deluxe' treatment that they don't really deserve.
As a retailer, I can say that sales of a title drop off considerably when the price gets over $20 for a single disc. While I think that it's important to offer a quality product in order to compete/stand out in the market, we sell more Scorpio stuff than pretty much everything else put together and they are basically CDs pressed onto dubious quality vinyl. On the other hand, they have lots of great titles and are around $12 a pop, and there is clearly a demand for this.
Damn. I just got notification for the new David Lynch LP release. $30 for the standard double LP and $40 for the limited to 500 version. $44.25 with shipping to be exact. I think labels are trying to beat the scalper/flippers to the punch.
That's my friend Caleb putting that out. I don't know his cost breakdown on that release, but I'm pretty positive he isn't gouging in any way. It also includes a 7", so $30 isn't really out of line, imo. Sacred Bones is actually a great example of an independent label releasing new music that isn't gouging, really.
Damn. I just got notification for the new David Lynch LP release. $30 for the standard double LP and $40 for the limited to 500 version. $44.25 with shipping to be exact. I think labels are trying to beat the scalper/flippers to the punch.
That's my friend Caleb putting that out. I don't know his cost breakdown on that release, but I'm pretty positive he isn't gouging in any way. It also includes a 7", so $30 isn't really out of line, imo. Sacred Bones is actually a great example of an independent label releasing new music that isn't gouging, really.
I still bought it at 44.25 even though it seems like a lot. And the limited Follakzoid and Holydrug Couple releases that he put out which were more reasonably priced.
Some pressing plants have looked into commissioning or building new presses but have found the cost prohibitive ??? as much as $500,000, said Eric Astor of Furnace MFG in Fairfax, Va. ???Since my partner also owns a CD/DVD plant,??? Mr. Astor said in an e-mail, ???we???ve been testing using the methods used in disc manufacturing to make a new breed of vinyl record, but that R&D is slow going and not looking promising.???
"Well for one thing, the biggest difference has definitely been this huge shift in the vinyl market. While vinyl sales overall remain healthy and in some case even stronger than 10 years ago, the people buying records has changed drastically. For example, before Serato came out I had absolutely no problem selling 5,000 copies or more of a DJ-centric battle break record. Nowadays forget it, the whole DJ market is dead. What???s seemingly replaced it is the collectors market so you???ve got all these so called boutique labels and reissues popping up all over the place where you got folks selling 7??? for $30 because they only pressed up x-amount. Now, I???m kinda-sorta guilty of that too but it???s what you have to do to adapt I guess. Do I like it? Not really"
(* Nice is one of my favorites. collector, mixtapes, remixes, battle records = Bonkers)
So much interesting information in this thread, thank you Thes and others.
The point about the lack of 2 tape play heads and the use of a digital delay in the signal path is doing my head in
I took the liberty of linking to this thread in another online community I move in. One of the guys there, who's something of an audio geek himself, posted a link to this piece by a colleague of his on the birth of digital recording in the US, which is kind of apropos.
BTW, here's a little highlight from a passage about Fleetwood Mac's early experiments with digital, just so you don't make the mistake of thinking it's a bone-dry academic paper or something;
Bruce Rothaar edited Fleetwood Mac???s recordings and discovered that rock musicians did not necessarily appreciate that the digital editing had to take place in Utah. He notes: ???Fleetwood Mac flew to Salt Lake City for the editing session. There was pressure to get the editing completed by four a.m. so they could be in their Lear Jet, over the Grand Canyon, on drugs, at dawn.???
That article was a good read. The whole thread is amazing.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
I predict that anti-vinyl contrarianism will supplant vinyl fetishism in the '14 if this article is anything to go by.
Cool. You can listen to your Perry Yuban on a however-many-CDs-they-have changer all day. I'll be at the house party drunk on Bud Drys while the deejay rocks doubles on the ones and twos making the girlies go wild.
Fool Disclosure: I loved cassettes and minidisc dubs of rap records. And I've found if I buy a new release on wax with the digi-DL I'm listening to the iPod version more often after an initial spin n file
Comments
What do people think about the direct to disc recording method? Is it even practical for most live recording sessions? I know Quantic and Alice Russel released a 45 using that technique last year. It sounded pretty boss IMO.
So edgy, brah.
Based on what you've said, Thes, is The Carvery selling snake oil?
b/w
I just bought the Donny Hathaway RSD 45 even after all the info given. I'm not a rigid audiophile and love the tactile aspect of playing records.
Who's Gonna Take The Lathe?
Ha!
And yeah, the OG LP I'm sure sounds even better. Some day...
I think a lot of labels/artists are doing this on purpose. Fans can buy the album on iTunes for $9.99, and they figure the fans that want physical copies want all the bells and whistles included. I don't think it's strictly a money grab, but genuinely wanting to deliver more to their fans.
But yeah. It just means $30 albums for the casual listeners / non-stans.
They should separately sell the album and then an artbook on the album, because I don't want to pay for both when I only want the album.
The latest Beach Fossils record had a limited to 400 edition. I think practically every one of them was sold on eBay for at least twice the purchase price.
Amok - Atoms for peace double LP? I think it was like $59 with shipping from Europe.
I agree, but it can get pretty misguided. There's a fine line between delivering a worthwhile tangible experience and flat out overkill. Actually, the line isn't that fine sometimes. I've definitely seen plenty of marginal titles get 'deluxe' treatment that they don't really deserve.
As a retailer, I can say that sales of a title drop off considerably when the price gets over $20 for a single disc. While I think that it's important to offer a quality product in order to compete/stand out in the market, we sell more Scorpio stuff than pretty much everything else put together and they are basically CDs pressed onto dubious quality vinyl. On the other hand, they have lots of great titles and are around $12 a pop, and there is clearly a demand for this.
That's my friend Caleb putting that out. I don't know his cost breakdown on that release, but I'm pretty positive he isn't gouging in any way. It also includes a 7", so $30 isn't really out of line, imo. Sacred Bones is actually a great example of an independent label releasing new music that isn't gouging, really.
I still bought it at 44.25 even though it seems like a lot. And the limited Follakzoid and Holydrug Couple releases that he put out which were more reasonably priced.
My mom just called to tell me about this article.
http://thewire.co.uk/in-writing/essays/collateral-damage_numero-group-on-the-vinyl-bubble
"Well for one thing, the biggest difference has definitely been this huge shift in the vinyl market. While vinyl sales overall remain healthy and in some case even stronger than 10 years ago, the people buying records has changed drastically. For example, before Serato came out I had absolutely no problem selling 5,000 copies or more of a DJ-centric battle break record. Nowadays forget it, the whole DJ market is dead. What???s seemingly replaced it is the collectors market so you???ve got all these so called boutique labels and reissues popping up all over the place where you got folks selling 7??? for $30 because they only pressed up x-amount. Now, I???m kinda-sorta guilty of that too but it???s what you have to do to adapt I guess. Do I like it? Not really"
(* Nice is one of my favorites. collector, mixtapes, remixes, battle records = Bonkers)
The point about the lack of 2 tape play heads and the use of a digital delay in the signal path is doing my head in
That article was a good read. The whole thread is amazing.
Sorry, but that article sucks seven ways to Sunday.
Obviously, I'm biased, but his logic is shite, as they say.
Funny that in the end he said, I prefer cds, my choice, don't tell me I am wrong.
A fair conclusion.
In the article he says vinyl 'warmth' is low end distortion. Does any one believe that?
how so? just curious.