Context is everything though. If cut chemist, who is known for obscure records is doing a show then yeah, that's poor taste. If its DJ DudeDownTheStreet then don't be an ass.
So wait, Cut Chemist gets a pass on not revealing tracks because he's famous, but DJDudeDownTheStreet isn't allowed because he's not famous?
Context IS everything - telling somebody to their face that the record's a secret is beyond lame, and I've never known anyone to do this. No tracklist to a mix you've released, these days probably for free, is absolutely fine. Records don't find and mix themselves.
Damms, I may have misunderstood your point when you wrote:
damms said:
I could have formulated this way: it's absurd to me to know Hampton Hawes without having a clue on Monk. Hope you get the point better.
I took that as:
1) Hampton Hawes musical contributions are derivative or less valid than Monk's (so, what's "real")
2) Said listener doesn't deserve (your word) to listen to hampton hawes without familiarizing themselves with Monk.
I could have formulated this way: it's absurd to me to know Hampton Hawes without having a clue on Monk. Hope you get the point better.
Personally, I don't find this absurd at all. If you're new to a particular genre everything starts off equally rare and equally new. The distinctions only become apparent when you start learning a bit more about the music.
What's absurd is the implication here that people have to follow some kind from prescribed path, starting from the well-known to the obscure. Or that you're not allowed to know about artist D until you've got everything by artists A, B and C. Who cares if someone learns about Carl Holmes or Mike James Kirkland before hearing Marvin Gaye or Curtis Mayfield?
This sums it up nicely.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
"Knowledge is power" is one thing, but if you're so insecure in your own abilities that you think preventing other people from being able to do their job properly is the way to protect your own, then I'm sorry, but you're a fucking dick.
In as much as how that applies to DJing, I used to be one of the residents at this little spot in the North West of England, where me and another guy used to rotate Thursday and Friday nights. It was kind of out of the way, but pretty well-attended. This other guy would often come down on nights when I was spinning and, although I wasn't in any way secretive about what I played at first (as opposed to where I found it), I began to hear more and more of the things I'd played the previous week, or even the previous night, on the nights when he was spinning. It eventually got to the point where I started covering up/blacking out certain records - if he wanted to know what they were, let him put in the same work I did - but beyond those few admittedly extreme measures, there wasn't a lot else I could do about it. I rationalised such precious behaviour on the basis that if, to some extent, I was getting work because of what I played, then this guy was effectively fucking with my money. So I have a degree of sympathy for DJs who get a bit protective over what they play, even though the twin evils of the internet and a massively saturated market has, for better or worse, proved to be a great leveller.
But I have never ever wanted to be the kind of person who assumes that knowing something they think the next man doesn't puts them on a higher plane of existence. I clearly remember the last time a DJ blanked me when I asked about a record. Touche from the Wiseguys (for it was he) literally turned his back on me and wouldn't even answer, despite my waiting patiently for a few moments until he'd finished cueing up the next record. It irritated me enormously at the time, but what soft lad didn't realise was that I recognised the singer's voice and managed to remember what the hook was. Sure enough, not long afterwards I found this dude's secret weapon in a South London second hand spot for next to nothing - unsurprisingly, since it had been in a few thousand British homes throughout the 1970s and wasn't even remotely raer - so his dickhead behaviour wasn't the impediment he seemed to think it'd be. Ever since then, I have made a point of telling anyone who takes the trouble to ask about a record precisely what they want to know.
The Serrato era kinda changes things...you could be very forthcoming with info knowing that if another DJ asked about a record and it was snake feather raer, it might take dude a minute to track down a copy, nowadays all a dude has to do is download the fucker and now they can play it at their gig the next day. Your "exclusive" tracks are no longer out of reach due to obscurity, cost etc.
Damms, I may have misunderstood your point when you wrote:
damms said:
I could have formulated this way: it's absurd to me to know Hampton Hawes without having a clue on Monk. Hope you get the point better.
I took that as:
1) Hampton Hawes musical contributions are derivative or less valid than Monk's (so, what's "real")
2) Said listener doesn't deserve (your word) to listen to hampton hawes without familiarizing themselves with Monk.
My apologies if i misinterpreted your argument.
my point is simple: I can understand that a DJ might be a little reluctant to easily give infos on lesser known artists/records that happen to be as good and in some instances better than what the general public is accustomed to if it took them some valuable time to discover them on their own. Since most DJs are passionate about music I can understand that some might prefer giving you a clue or 2 and let you figure the rest on your own. THAT is the thing to share. The passion not just names.
The_Hook_Up said:
mrmatthew said:
Has anyone ever seen been djing and sees someone in the audience holding up thier phone using this
?
Happened to me a couple of times and makes me feel kind of violated :grrr:
Yes, and when I was done the dude exclaimed I was great because he could only figure out 2 of the songs I played with it...
Presenting somebody else's creative work without attribution is plagiarism.
Funny thing is this reminds me of the whole "curation is the new creation" thing that's about at the moment. It seems you have people with blogs or whatever getting upset when they feel their efforts at presenting other people's content isn't fully recognised. That is, they're not upset that the creator of an image, a piece of music or whatever hasn't been acknowledged, they're upset that they as the middleman haven't been shown the proper appreciation for their work in presenting the image to the public.
Likewise a DJ who wants to be the sole outlet for a particular tune, be it rare or just little known, rather than directing interested listeners to the actual source.
Presenting somebody else's creative work without attribution is plagiarism.
Funny thing is this reminds me of the whole "curation is the new creation" thing that's about at the moment. It seems you have people with blogs or whatever getting upset when they feel their efforts at presenting other people's content isn't fully recognised. That is, they're not upset that the creator of an image, a piece of music or whatever hasn't been acknowledged, they're upset that they as the middleman haven't been shown the proper appreciation for their work in presenting the image to the public.
Likewise a DJ who wants to be the sole outlet for a particular tune, be it rare or just little known, rather than directing interested listeners to the actual source.
Big time cosign.
I can understand and sympathize with somebody getting salty when the next guy jacks their playlist without any sort of appreciation given to the time and effort you put into discovering shit - and sometimes it's just a matter of respect & manners, i.e.
"hey, I really dug what you played tonight. I know a little about x genre, but could you maybe point me in the direction of some records I should check out?"
vs.
kthxbai
but IMHO, the time I put into learning about records will never equal the blood, sweat and tears that went into actually making them.
Don't worry, it does not recognize the deeper raers. I tested it with a few I have so any secrets you may be keeping are safe for now.
Its quite random the level of how obscure a record shazam can ID.
I've used it at home several times for IDing re-edits released under different names, some of the results have been amazing, especially on records that might not have been released in your native country.
And yeah I've used it a couple of times in clubs, and had some great success.
When Im playing out and someone comes and asks the name of an obscure track I get a buzz out of telling them the title or showing them the jacket, knowledge shared.
I asked DJs over the years for the ID of the track they are playing and have not had any attitude yet, many seem happy to get a chance to talk about the record.
To each his own though, I don't blame a DJ for keeping his shit secret, I might have thought it was bad form in the past but if someone is passionate enough about thier music these days to keep it secret, well good for them.
Comments
Isn't a very strong leg to stand on in determining who deserves to listen to "real" jazz.
It's just music. Enjoy it.
rest assured. I enjoy the hell out of it.
So wait, Cut Chemist gets a pass on not revealing tracks because he's famous, but DJDudeDownTheStreet isn't allowed because he's not famous?
Context IS everything - telling somebody to their face that the record's a secret is beyond lame, and I've never known anyone to do this. No tracklist to a mix you've released, these days probably for free, is absolutely fine. Records don't find and mix themselves.
I took that as:
1) Hampton Hawes musical contributions are derivative or less valid than Monk's (so, what's "real")
2) Said listener doesn't deserve (your word) to listen to hampton hawes without familiarizing themselves with Monk.
My apologies if i misinterpreted your argument.
Yes, and when I was done the dude exclaimed I was great because he could only figure out 2 of the songs I played with it...
This sums it up nicely.
In as much as how that applies to DJing, I used to be one of the residents at this little spot in the North West of England, where me and another guy used to rotate Thursday and Friday nights. It was kind of out of the way, but pretty well-attended. This other guy would often come down on nights when I was spinning and, although I wasn't in any way secretive about what I played at first (as opposed to where I found it), I began to hear more and more of the things I'd played the previous week, or even the previous night, on the nights when he was spinning. It eventually got to the point where I started covering up/blacking out certain records - if he wanted to know what they were, let him put in the same work I did - but beyond those few admittedly extreme measures, there wasn't a lot else I could do about it. I rationalised such precious behaviour on the basis that if, to some extent, I was getting work because of what I played, then this guy was effectively fucking with my money. So I have a degree of sympathy for DJs who get a bit protective over what they play, even though the twin evils of the internet and a massively saturated market has, for better or worse, proved to be a great leveller.
But I have never ever wanted to be the kind of person who assumes that knowing something they think the next man doesn't puts them on a higher plane of existence. I clearly remember the last time a DJ blanked me when I asked about a record. Touche from the Wiseguys (for it was he) literally turned his back on me and wouldn't even answer, despite my waiting patiently for a few moments until he'd finished cueing up the next record. It irritated me enormously at the time, but what soft lad didn't realise was that I recognised the singer's voice and managed to remember what the hook was. Sure enough, not long afterwards I found this dude's secret weapon in a South London second hand spot for next to nothing - unsurprisingly, since it had been in a few thousand British homes throughout the 1970s and wasn't even remotely raer - so his dickhead behaviour wasn't the impediment he seemed to think it'd be. Ever since then, I have made a point of telling anyone who takes the trouble to ask about a record precisely what they want to know.
ha ha ha ha
Maybe this will take care of 1 or 2 dudes standing around the DJ writing what he's playing.
Funny thing is this reminds me of the whole "curation is the new creation" thing that's about at the moment. It seems you have people with blogs or whatever getting upset when they feel their efforts at presenting other people's content isn't fully recognised. That is, they're not upset that the creator of an image, a piece of music or whatever hasn't been acknowledged, they're upset that they as the middleman haven't been shown the proper appreciation for their work in presenting the image to the public.
Likewise a DJ who wants to be the sole outlet for a particular tune, be it rare or just little known, rather than directing interested listeners to the actual source.
Big time cosign.
I can understand and sympathize with somebody getting salty when the next guy jacks their playlist without any sort of appreciation given to the time and effort you put into discovering shit - and sometimes it's just a matter of respect & manners, i.e.
"hey, I really dug what you played tonight. I know a little about x genre, but could you maybe point me in the direction of some records I should check out?"
vs.
but IMHO, the time I put into learning about records will never equal the blood, sweat and tears that went into actually making them.
You learn the turntable routine.
Does that make you Shadow? (Or whatever the current equivalent is.)
Does anyone care? (Besides John Book?)
Shazam. Mobile app. Basically you hold your phone up when a song is playing and it (attempts to) identify it
Crazy!
Just asking me sounds a lot easier lol
Exactly
UnShazamaable!
well, it was a year and a half ago...don't know if it still is
maybe in your private mind garden. At least not where I live. :roar:
Its quite random the level of how obscure a record shazam can ID.
I've used it at home several times for IDing re-edits released under different names, some of the results have been amazing, especially on records that might not have been released in your native country.
And yeah I've used it a couple of times in clubs, and had some great success.
When Im playing out and someone comes and asks the name of an obscure track I get a buzz out of telling them the title or showing them the jacket, knowledge shared.
I asked DJs over the years for the ID of the track they are playing and have not had any attitude yet, many seem happy to get a chance to talk about the record.
To each his own though, I don't blame a DJ for keeping his shit secret, I might have thought it was bad form in the past but if someone is passionate enough about thier music these days to keep it secret, well good for them.
I learnt everything in the beginning from DJ's, the ones that shared became good friends and we still bounce shit off each other to this day.